The Cab Ride

[Sean Coleman]

4 hours ago, John Butler said:

Hmmm?  Let's see.  Two Oswalds at the TSBD.  Two Oswalds leave by different means.  One leaves by get away car and was seen by Roger Craig.  One leaves by bus/taxi at testified by bus and cab driver.

No. No. No.  Roger Craig was not close enough to the vehicle to practically ID Oswald.  No. No. No.  Evidence says that the bus driver and taxi driver testified falsely and other evidence was manipulated.  Two Oswalds leave by unknown means?  One Oswald left by unknown means?  No Oswalds leave the TSBD?

So, the question becomes "How did one or possibly two Oswalds leave the TSBD?"  Did Oswald leap from the 6th floor window and fly away with the pigeons that Officer Baker saw?  

If reasonable people can argue over this. then the cover-up specialists did their job.

 

John, I think it was an Oswaldfest at the TSBD that day…..one expertly fired a Fisher Price rifle from the 6th floor while one was slaking his thirst with a coke while one said prayers next to BWF out front as the last(?) one escapes from round back into a(nother) Rambler? And one of the afore mentioned may have strolled away from the scene to catch a bus etc.!!

I love it. 

 

[Gil Jesus]

On 10/27/2021 at 5:40 PM, David Andrews said:

The whole point of establishing Oswald's visit at the N. Beckley rooming house would be to make it plausible that he picked up a jacket and a revolver, items needed for fleeing the city.  These points tended to incriminate him for the Tippit shooting, and to suggest he was meeting a contact at Texas Theater.  (The latter suggestion was not followed up by police or the WC.)

So, where do the testimonies and evidence on the visit and the items fit into the plan to frame Oswald?

How much of what we're debating was just police action made up on the fly, like the Bush admin grasping indefensible evidence to support an Iraq invasion?

It's possible that the testimonies and evidence could not be sustained in a legal trial, or even after a discussion between Oswald and a defense attorney - so whatever was made up on the fly may contributed to the need to eliminate Oswald quickly, while he could still be claimed to have been caught red handed, and before any fraud could be detected.

(Edited for clarity)

Dave you just hit on the real reason why Ruby killed Oswald... to prevent him from going to trial. Oswald had to be killed before the police gave up custody of him to the Sheriff's office. Once he was in the county jail, the police had no more control over him. Who knows what he would have told the sheriff's deputies about his time with the police if he had been given the chance. Don't forget, the deputies weren't in on the framing of Oswald, they were outside the loop. The proof of that are their accounts that don't support the official version.

[Gil Jesus]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:01 PM, Sean Coleman said:

John, I think it was an Oswaldfest at the TSBD that day…..one expertly fired a Fisher Price rifle from the 6th floor while one was slaking his thirst with a coke while one said prayers next to BWF out front as the last(?) one escapes from round back into a(nother) Rambler? And one of the afore mentioned may have strolled away from the scene to catch a bus etc.!!

I love it. 

 

Sean, personally, I don't believe in this two Oswald theory: Two guys who look so remarkably alike that they can be mistaken for each other, with the exact three names albeit in a different order, around the same height and weight, whose mothers have the same name, living in Dallas at the same time, moving to New Orleans at the same time, then moving back to Dallas at the same time, one a model citizen, the other a stone cold killer... it all is a bit much for me to swallow.

One Oswald, two Oswalds, twenty Oswalds.... the witnesses descriptions of the "men in the windows" do not match Oswald.

[Sean Coleman]

2 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Sean, personally, I don't believe in this two Oswald theory: Two guys who look so remarkably alike that they can be mistaken for each other, with the exact three names albeit in a different order, around the same height and weight, whose mothers have the same name, living in Dallas at the same time, moving to New Orleans at the same time, then moving back to Dallas at the same time, one a model citizen, the other a stone cold killer... it all is a bit much for me to swallow.

One Oswald, two Oswalds, twenty Oswalds.... the witnesses descriptions of the "men in the windows" do not match Oswald.

Me too, with you all the way! Was expressing my exasperation at the amount of Ozzies available for scrutinisation…

Enjoyed your posts, hope there’s more to come

[David Andrews]

3 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Dave you just hit on the real reason why Ruby killed Oswald... to prevent him from going to trial. Oswald had to be killed before the police gave up custody of him to the Sheriff's office. Once he was in the county jail, the police had no more control over him. Who knows what he would have told the sheriff's deputies about his time with the police if he had been given the chance. Don't forget, the deputies weren't in on the framing of Oswald, they were outside the loop. The proof of that are their accounts that don't support the official version.

It may be important to evaluate what incriminating circumstances against Oswald were made up on the fly, in hope that they stuck, and then had to be defended and entered into record by killing Oswald.  Intelligence and "evidence" authored with no pre-planning, just police knowledge of how to frame someone.  Can we separate from the truth those items that are "typical frame job" material?  Can we individuate who supplied the material, and who authorized massaging it into the record?

This occurs to one while reading the the unbelievably inconclusive intelligence reports seized on by the Bush admin in selling the Iraq invasion -- material that cost many lives, and was never legally challenged once no WMD were found.

Very good point about DPD in danger of losing control of Oswald to the county.  Briefly, what deputy accounts, other than Roger Craig's, don't support the DPD version?

Edited October 30, 2021 by David Andrews

[John Butler]

For you One Oswalders, here is a photo quiz.  Which of these photo(s) shows the original Lee Harvey Oswald and which photo(s) is the doppelganger, Harvey Oswald.  I have given you hints on date and place.

 

[Sean Coleman]

The one with boobs in photo 2 is definitely a imposter

[Jonathan Cohen]

4 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

The one with boobs in photo 2 is definitely a imposter

Sean,
God bless you for bringing some levity to this long-running, absolutely absurd theory. Side note: all three photos above are of course of the exact same person — the one and only “historical” Lee Harvey Oswald.

[John Butler]

Looks like I goofed on those dates.  This should take care of that.

The left hand photo has Marina's daughter in it.  The middle photo is probably around 1961.  There is no mistake on the right hand photo even though Robert Oswald changed the date from Feb., 1958 to Sept., 1969 1959.

59 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Sean,
God bless you for bringing some levity to this long-running, absolutely absurd theory. Side note: all three photos above are of course of the exact same person — the one and only “historical” Lee Harvey Oswald.

I could have written JC's response and saved him some time.  The one with boobs must be Marina.  Yes, Marina was something else in those days.

Take the Oswald represented in the center photo and answer this question.  If you saw that version of Oswald and was asked later (days or months) would you say he most resembles the left hand photo or the right hand photo?

No JC, you can't answer since you are blinded by your convictions as a One Oswalder.

I would answer without studying this and as would most people if asked the question cold, it would be the left hand photo.  The right hand photo looks to much like Lennie from the Of Mice and Men book. 

But, according to self proclaimed authorities this is one person, Lee Harvey Oswald and no one else.

I see this differently.  The left hand photo and the right hand photo are the same.  This is Harvey Oswald, of unknown name.  The center photo is Lee Oswald.  I can make a case for this based on standards I developed from studying photos of what everyone thinks is the one and only Lee Harvey Oswald.  There is solid evidence I can use that the left hand photo and the right hand photo are not Lee Harvey Oswald, but his double.   By deduction, the center photo must be Lee Oswald even though this photo was taken in Russia about 1961.

There is no doubt the left hand photo is of Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police Station.       

Edited October 30, 2021 by John Butler

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

Looks like I goofed on those dates.  This should take care of that.

The left hand photo has Marina's daughter in it.  The middle photo is probably around 1961.  There is no mistake on the right hand photo even though Robert Oswald changed the date from Feb., 1958 to Sept., 1969 1959.

I could have written JC's response and saved him some time.  The one with boobs must be Marina.  Yes, Marina was something else in those days.

Take the Oswald represented in the center photo and answer this question.  If you saw that version of Oswald and was asked later (days or months) would you say he most resembles the left hand photo or the right hand photo?

I see this differently.  The left hand photo and the right hand photo are the same.  This is Harvey Oswald, of unknown name.  The center photo is Lee Oswald.  I can make a case for this based on standards I developed from studying photos of what everyone thinks is the one and only Lee Harvey Oswald.  There is solid evidence I can use that the left hand photo and the right hand photo are not Lee Harvey Oswald, but his double.   By deduction, the center photo must be Lee Oswald even though this photo was taken in Russia about 1961.

There is no doubt the left hand photo is of Harvey Oswald the man shot at the Dallas Police Station. 

I vigorously dispute your “standards” and have 100% confidence in my belief that all three of those photos are of the same person. You clearly believe “there is no doubt” that “Harvey Oswald” was a real human being, but the overwhelming majority of serious researchers who study this case vehemently disagree with you and have relegated this theory to the JFK assassination dustbin where it belongs. That should tell you something …

Edit: I won’t post further about “Harvey” in this thread in an effort to not further derail the excellent, well-researched points being made by Gil, Greg and others.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Jonathan Cohen

[John Butler]

15 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Edit: I won’t post further about “Harvey” in this thread in an effort to not further derail the excellent, well-researched points being made by Gil, Greg and others.

Thanks.

I didn't bring up two Oswalds in this thread.  Others did.  After making one more comment I too will not post further for the One Oswald crowd.  The right hand photo is from Robert Oswald's book, A Portrait of Lee Harvey Oswald by His Brother.  The date on this photo is Feb., 1958. 

This was taken at a hunting event at Robert's in laws in Texas on their farm.  At the time the original Lee Harvey Oswald was stationed in Japan at the Atsuki military base.  In November 20, 1957, Lee Harvey Oswald's unit is sent to the Philippine Islands.  On March 7, 1958, Oswald's unit sails for Atsugi, Japan.  He was on maneuvers in the South China Sea at this time in February.   There are no government records indicating he took a leave and returned to the US during this time.  

If Lee Harvey Oswald was on maneuvers in the South China Sea in Feb., 1958 then who is that in the photo?  It is Harvey, the double.  Harvey was in New Orleans for a period of time and not in the service.  I think he was AWOL living at 210 Dauphine - SENATOR HOTEL.  

Robert's "mistake" on the date was eventually realized and the date was changed to Sep., 1959.  Notice Harvey's receding hairline.  Later he uses a comb over to hide it.  This is what the original Lee Harvey Oswald looked like in 1958.

Lee has more hair and less of a receding hairline on each side of his head.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

Gil,

I have a quick off-topic question for you. (Sorry.)

A few years ago I saw a video rebuttal of Dale Myers' magic bullet animation which I found to be very convincing. Unless I'm conflating that with another video, I recall you narrating the video. My recollection is that it was your video.

Since then I've occasionally wanted to show the video to others, but I can't find it! I just looked on your YouTube channel and couldn't find it there.

Was it you who made the video? If so, where can I find it?

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Sandy Larsen

[Sean Coleman]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Gil,

I have a quick off-topic question for you. (Sorry.)

A few years ago I saw a video rebuttal of Dale Myers' magic bullet animation which I found to be very convincing. Unless I'm conflating that with another video, I recall you narrating the video. My recollection is that it was your video.

Since then I've occasionally wanted to show the video to others, but I can't find it! I just looked on your YouTube channel and couldn't find it there.

Was it you who made the video? If so, where can I find it?

 

Didn’t Dalek Myers conveniently move the jump seat position to fit the bullet trajectory in his fancy animation? Wot a cheat.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

17 hours ago, Sean Coleman said:

Didn’t Dalek Myers conveniently move the jump seat position to fit the bullet trajectory in his fancy animation? Wot a cheat.

 

 

Yes, I believe so. Maybe even more than that. It's been so long since seeing the video that I don't remember.

 

[Gil Jesus]

On 11/1/2021 at 3:13 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

Gil,

I have a quick off-topic question for you. (Sorry.)

A few years ago I saw a video rebuttal of Dale Myers' magic bullet animation which I found to be very convincing. Unless I'm conflating that with another video, I recall you narrating the video. My recollection is that it was your video.

Since then I've occasionally wanted to show the video to others, but I can't find it! I just looked on your YouTube channel and couldn't find it there.

Was it you who made the video? If so, where can I find it?

 

You may be right Sandy, I just don't remember. If I narrated it, it was probably something I put together. My first Youtube channel had about 200 videos, but the Warren Commission apologists complained to Youtube that I had stolen videos that they had the copyrights to and after three complaints, the channel got removed. I lost a lot of good videos from that channel. Unfortunately, I never saved them because I never thought I'd lose them. I'm in the process of copying the videos on the new channel onto my website because I don't have access to that channel to add more videos. Unless someone somewhere copied it, I'm afraid it's lost. You might do a web search using my name and the subject matter to see if it's on some video archive website.

I wish I could be of more help.