The Curious Case of George Estabrooks

[Ron Bulman]

23 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

https://www.kennedysandking.com/robert-f-kennedy-reviews/faura-fernando-the-polka-dot-file-on-the-robert-f-kennedy-killing

worth reading.

Yes, it is.  Fahey and Michael Wayne are covered in depth in Lie Too Big To Fail.  But Jim fleshes them out in further detail in addition to that on Faura.

The part about the LAPD having a file on Sirhan before the assassination, even though he had no criminal record is interesting.  Did this come from Turners files?  

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, I'll say it again, Ben.  Perhaps the third time will be the charm.  🤥

In Sirhan's case, all of the hypnotic programming was most likely completed before he ever went to the Ambassador Hotel to meet the person who was the stage assistant in the assassination op-- the Girl in the Polka Dot Dress.

Part of what you don't seem to understand is that people will act on post-hypnotic compulsions (like Sirhan climbing on the bars of his cell for Bernard Diamond) even when they are not in a trance state.  But they will have amnesia for the programming if amnesia was suggested under hypnosis.  Ergo, Sirhan was probably pre-programmed to go to the Ambassador Hotel where he would meet and socialize with an attractive woman in a polka dot dress.  He probably had total amnesia for his instructions.

She then activated a pre-programmed dissociated alter ego state, "range mode," with the aforementioned cues that Dr. Daniel Brown identified.

As for tracking the MK-ULTRA Manchurian candidate "technology," if you read John Marks' 1979 analysis in The Search For the Manchurian Candidate, the CIA records were destroyed and the "Manchurian candidate" paper trail at the CIA disappeared.  (Marks didn't even mention Dr. William Bryan, who had, allegedly, been involved in ARTICHOKE and MK-ULTRA.)  However, we know that the technique was feasible because of the Sirhan case, the Morse Allen, and the Bjorn Nielsen cases.

We also know (from Marks) that James Angleton was keenly interested in the use of hypnosis in espionage and counterintelligence. 

I'm curious about the James Earl Ray, Arthur Bremer, and John Hinckley cases, but I need to do some remedial reading.

Somewhere in all this on this thread, the one on Mockingbird and MKULTRA, the links or one of the books referred to Bremmer and I think Ray are mentioned.  In relation to Dr. Bryan.  From memory, Bryan's secretary recalled him getting an emergency call from Laurel Maryland immediately after George Wallace was shot there.

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, I'll say it again, Ben.  Perhaps the third time will be the charm.  🤥

In Sirhan's case, all of the hypnotic programming was most likely completed before he ever went to the Ambassador Hotel to meet the person who was the stage assistant in the assassination op-- the Girl in the Polka Dot Dress.

Part of what you don't seem to understand is that people will act on post-hypnotic compulsions (like Sirhan climbing on the bars of his cell for Bernard Diamond) even when they are not in a trance state.  But they will have amnesia for the programming if amnesia was suggested under hypnosis.  Ergo, Sirhan was probably pre-programmed to go to the Ambassador Hotel where he would meet and socialize with an attractive woman in a polka dot dress.  He probably had total amnesia for his instructions.

She then activated a pre-programmed dissociated alter ego state, "range mode," with the aforementioned cues that Dr. Daniel Brown identified.

As for tracking the MK-ULTRA Manchurian candidate "technology," if you read John Marks' 1979 analysis in The Search For the Manchurian Candidate, the CIA records were destroyed and the "Manchurian candidate" paper trail at the CIA disappeared.  (Marks didn't even mention Dr. William Bryan, who had, allegedly, been involved in ARTICHOKE and MK-ULTRA.)  However, we know that the technique was feasible because of the Sirhan case, the Morse Allen, and the Bjorn Nielsen cases.

We also know (from Marks) that James Angleton was keenly interested in the use of hypnosis in espionage and counterintelligence. 

I'm curious about the James Earl Ray, Arthur Bremer, and John Hinckley cases, but I need to do some remedial reading.

Yes, I understand the theory is Sirhan underwent a two-week intensive hypnosis training session after a dubious injury riding a horse, and then several more sessions, and the theory is in those sessions he was programmed to believe he was shooting his pistol at a rifle range (range mode) when certain triggers were initiated. 

Then, after being liquored up t the Ambassador, Sirhan followed the polka-dot dress girl and shot RFK when she properly triggered him. We do not know is she also put him into a hypnotic trance. Or even if Sirhan was additionally doped up in some other way---his drug and urinalysis tests have disappeared!

That's fine. Of course, the Sirhan hypnosis story is only a theory, albeit one I might subscribe to.

But to get Sirhan to do the deed required close supervision and onsite specific triggering, and possibly being liquored up. I forget if there was a offsite hypnosis session on the day of the event. 

Let us even accept for sake of argument that the Sirhan hypnosis story is true, and I suspect it largely is. 

The Sirhan story is a far cry from brainwashing some guy and sending him to gun down someone else a few weeks or months later in a foreign country. There was a lot of up-to-the-last-second and onsite handling of Sirhan prior to the act, and Sirhan at a minimum was intoxicated. 

I understand records have been destroyed which may have evidence of a bona fide successful Manchurian candidate. But as of yet, I know of no solid, documented case of a Manchurian candidate. 

Nor has the US or a Western European nation ever said, "An assassin was let go in our midst, after Manchurian-candidate type brainwashing by the CCP or North Korea or Moscow, etc."

In short, classic Manchurian-candidate type brainwashing may be impossible.

A Sirhan-type patsy-making operation, involving hypnosis and close moment-of-event handling, and intoxicants, appears to have worked. 

 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Yes, it is.  Fahey and Michael Wayne are covered in depth in Lie Too Big To Fail.  But Jim fleshes them out in further detail in addition to that on Faura.

The part about the LAPD having a file on Sirhan before the assassination, even though he had no criminal record is interesting.  Did this come from Turners files?  

It's a terrific book review/article by DiEugenio, which I had never read until this evening.

I'm also halfway through Faura's 2016 book tonight, The Polka Dot File, a real page turner.

I agree with Jim D. that the Faura's chapter comprised of a verbatim transcript of the Fahey tape wasn't a literary masterpiece-- but what an interview it was!

I cringed when I read Faura's account of handing his shocking Fahey tape over to the LAPD, but he didn't realize at the time that they were aggressively suppressing the evidence of a conspiracy.

Meanwhile, it looks like Ben is "keeping a very open mind" when it comes to processing the Manchurian candidate evidence. 🤥

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23958795/

"Alcohol increases hypnotic susceptibility"

There is a lot of literature on narcotics and hypnosis too. 

Unfortunately Sirhan's urinalysis results are missing. 

But it appears Sirhan had four drinks at the Ambassador, and had very low body weight (a horse jockey). Was he doped up too?

The alcohol would have increased his susceptibility to a possible last-minute hypnosis session with the polka-dot girl. 

I understand the theory is Sirhan was reacting to a post-hypnotic suggestion from earlier and sustained sessions. But who knows? 

If Sirhan was so easy to hypnotize, maybe the polka-dot girl put him under too, refreshed the suggestion again, and set him loose. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

So Estabrooks work during WWII one might say birthed the babies of Operations Bluebird, Artichoke and MLULTRA.  Which brought us Sidney Gottlieb, the biochemist as well as George White, William Bryan and Jolyon West.  

The last who did something to Jack Ruby in his cell in a private visit that affected his mind the rest of his short life.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

So Estabrooks work during WWII one might say birthed the babies of Operations Bluebird, Artichoke and MLULTRA.  Which brought us Sidney Gottlieb, the biochemist as well as George White, William Bryan and Jolyon West.  

The last who did something to Jack Ruby in his cell in a private visit that affected his mind the rest of his short life.

And, meanwhile, there is no trace of Estabrooks (or Bryan) in the extant CIA records, to my knowledge.

BTW, I just read William Bryan's strange book on Religion and Hypnosis.  It truly surprised me, because he sounded pious and somewhat knowledgeable about Christianity--nothing like the Manchurian candidate-programming CIA psychiatrist and drug addict who cavorted with prostitutes and seduced patients!

[Ron Bulman]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:29 PM, W. Niederhut said:

And, meanwhile, there is no trace of Estabrooks (or Bryan) in the extant CIA records, to my knowledge.

BTW, I just read William Bryan's strange book on Religion and Hypnosis.  It truly surprised me, because he sounded pious and somewhat knowledgeable about Christianity--nothing like the Manchurian candidate-programming CIA psychiatrist and drug addict who cavorted with prostitutes and seduced patients!

It seems the work of West and Bryan through Ruby and Ferrie respectively might have played a role in the JFK assassination.  Then both come up again in the RFK assassination, Bryan again in that of MLK and the attempt on Wallace. 

As you mention no official mention of either of them or Estabrooks all the way back to WWII, before the CIA.  Not surprising, given Helms destruction of the MKULTRA records in 1973.  Further suppression through Operation Mockingbird.  Not much left but independent researchers.  More especially video wise from the time.  Mark Lane in the years after JFK's execution.  Then this, not about ultra so much as the bird, though the former does get mentioned while un named.  Posting for historical perspective in relation to the bigger picture, affecting us still today as a historical artifact.  The images and statements are national treasures.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

It seems the work of West and Bryan through Ruby and Ferrie respectively might have played a role in the JFK assassination.  Then both come up again in the RFK assassination, Bryan again in that of MLK and the attempt on Wallace. 

As you mention no official mention of either of them or Estabrooks all the way back to WWII, before the CIA.  Not surprising, given Helms destruction of the MKULTRA records in 1973.  Further suppression through Operation Mockingbird.  Not much left but independent researchers.  More especially video wise from the time.  Mark Lane in the years after JFK's execution.  Then this, not about ultra so much as the bird, though the former does get mentioned while un named.  Posting for historical perspective in relation to the bigger picture, affecting us still today as a historical artifact.  The images and statements are national treasures.

 

Thanks for sharing the documentary, Ron. I was desperately sad watching it. What a tragedy for America and the world. 😞 

[Ron Bulman]

14 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

then they shThanks for sharing the documentary, Ron. I was desperately sad watching it. What a tragedy for America and the world. 😞 

The vocals from Cesar pissed me off.  He tells them "I lost my tie".  Then they show the picture of it laying by Bobby's hand on the floor.  Yes that is saddening.  Then he says "yes I had a little 22 just like the one that killed Bobby".  He lyes his ass off throughout, mockingly. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The vocals from Cesar pissed me off.  He tells them "I lost my tie".  Then they show the picture of it laying by Bobby's hand on the floor.  Yes that is saddening.  Then he says "yes I had a little 22 just like the one that killed Bobby".  He lyes his ass off throughout, mockingly. 

Sickening. 
 

I can’t remember if in Lisa Pease book if she drills down on Cesar’s background. Didn’t he moonlight for the Howard Hughes corporation? He seems 100% conscious of what he has done. It’s a massive job assassinating a US senator at point black range. A very nervy undertaking. Even hating the Kennedy’s, I can’t imagine he was over the moon when someone asked him to do it. I wonder how he was conditioned. 

[Benjamin Cole]

For that matter, if you believe in Manchurian candidates and hypnotic suggestion, why not Thane Cesar also? 

Cesar ended up on the floor, unholstered pistol, and seems to not recall clearly how it happened.

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 2/23/2022 at 9:32 PM, Ron Bulman said:

It seems the work of West and Bryan through Ruby and Ferrie respectively might have played a role in the JFK assassination.  Then both come up again in the RFK assassination, Bryan again in that of MLK and the attempt on Wallace. 

As you mention no official mention of either of them or Estabrooks all the way back to WWII, before the CIA.  Not surprising, given Helms destruction of the MKULTRA records in 1973.  Further suppression through Operation Mockingbird.  Not much left but independent researchers.  More especially video wise from the time.  Mark Lane in the years after JFK's execution.  Then this, not about ultra so much as the bird, though the former does get mentioned while un named.  Posting for historical perspective in relation to the bigger picture, affecting us still today as a historical artifact.  The images and statements are national treasures.

 

When DA Bush was confronted with the indisputable fact that Thane Eugene Cesar lied to Bush's investigative interrogators in telling them he sold his 22 caliber revolver ( the exact same model as Sirhan's 22 ) "before" Robert Kennedy's murder versus the truth that he sold it in September, 1968, all Bush could respond with was a dumb silence.

That lie by Cesar was hugely important in so many ways. 

Bush now knew that Cesar was a serious xxxx and this particular gun selling lie had serious implications.

Any honest integrity minded D.A. ( especially in such a highest profile, historically important and controversial public trust testing murder case like RFK's ) would have immediately called back in extreme right wing, admittedly Kennedy hating Thane Cesar to re-question him about this major lie regards the time line of his ownership and selling of his own Sirhan replica 22 revolver.

Obviously, Bush never even considered bringing Cesar back in for questioning or even contacted the buyer of Cesar's 22 to resolve this majorly important lie by Cesar.

This gun selling by Cesar proves the man was a proven xxxx and lied to the authorities in their investigation.

I'll believe Shulman way before Cesar and Shulman's account of seeing Cesar firing his Kennedy direction aiming gun during the flurry of gun shots in the Ambassador hotel pantry on June 5th, 1968.

Fascinating documentary piece.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

When DA Bush was confronted with the indisputable fact that Thane Eugene Cesar lied to Bush's investigative interrogators in telling them he sold his 22 caliber revolver ( the exact same model as Sirhan's 22 ) "before" Robert Kennedy's murder versus the truth that he sold it in September, 1968, all Bush could respond with was a dumb silence.

That lie by Cesar was hugely important in so many ways. 

Bush now knew that Cesar was a serious xxxx and this particular gun selling lie had serious implications.

Any honest integrity minded D.A. ( especially in such a highest profile, historically important and controversial public trust testing murder case like RFK's ) would have immediately called back in extreme right wing, admittedly Kennedy hating Thane Cesar to re-question him about this major lie regards the his ownership and selling of his own Sirhan replica 22 revolver.

Obviously, Bush never even considered bringing Cesar back in for questioning or even contacted the buyer of Cesar's 22 to resolve this majorly important lie by Cesar.

This gun selling by Cesar proves the man was a proven xxxx and lied to the authorities in their investigation.

I'll believe Shulman way before Cesar and Shulman's account of seeing Cesar firing his Kennedy direction aiming gun during the flurry of gun shots in the Ambassador hotel pantry on June 5th, 1968.

Fascinating documentary piece.

Joe,

     I just finished reading the late LA journalist Fernando Faura's 2016 book about the RFK assassination, The Polka Dot File, which contains a wealth of firsthand witness testimony about RFK's assassination from the summer of '68.  Faura documents very clearly how the FBI and LAPD systematically suppressed and lied about the obvious evidence of a conspiracy.

    The cover up wasn't even subtle.  The two lead LAPD "investigators," Pena and Hernandez, were cops who had been working for the CIA (AID program) before being recalled to LA to manage the RFK assassination cover up.

Edited February 25, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

8 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

When DA Bush was confronted with the indisputable fact that Thane Eugene Cesar lied to Bush's investigative interrogators in telling them he sold his 22 caliber revolver ( the exact same model as Sirhan's 22 ) "before" Robert Kennedy's murder versus the truth that he sold it in September, 1968, all Bush could respond with was a dumb silence.

That lie by Cesar was hugely important in so many ways. 

Bush now knew that Cesar was a serious xxxx and this particular gun selling lie had serious implications.

Any honest integrity minded D.A. ( especially in such a highest profile, historically important and controversial public trust testing murder case like RFK's ) would have immediately called back in extreme right wing, admittedly Kennedy hating Thane Cesar to re-question him about this major lie regards the his ownership and selling of his own Sirhan replica 22 revolver.

Obviously, Bush never even considered bringing Cesar back in for questioning or even contacted the buyer of Cesar's 22 to resolve this majorly important lie by Cesar.

This gun selling by Cesar proves the man was a proven xxxx and lied to the authorities in their investigation.

I'll believe Shulman way before Cesar and Shulman's account of seeing Cesar firing his Kennedy direction aiming gun during the flurry of gun shots in the Ambassador hotel pantry on June 5th, 1968.

Fascinating documentary piece.

I'd read the part before about the guy in Arkansas having a receipt for the 22 dated after the assassination.  But hearing him tell Ted on the phone about it then seeing the copy of the receipt he'd sent him was just damning.

I've also read somewhere (?) regarding the guy in Arkansas saying the gun was stolen from his house . . . that it was found in the mud in a stock tank, in Arkansas (nearby?  I don't remember that).  The serial number reportedly matched up with the receipt.