THE LATEST (JANUARY 2021) update on Angelos Leiloglou's 3D model of Dealey Plaza

[Guest]

On 1/1/2023 at 4:42 PM, John Deignan said:

https://history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/BigLieSmallWound/BigLieSmallWound.htm

bye

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Micah Mileto]

25 minutes ago, Lance Payette said:

 

What do you mean "take it with a grain of salt"? Dr. Shaw personally insisted that Connally's back wound was not particularly oval.

[Mark Ulrik]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

What do you mean "take it with a grain of salt"? Dr. Shaw personally insisted that Connally's back wound was not particularly oval.

Dr. SHAW - The wound entrance was an elliptical wound. In other words, it had a long diameter and a short diameter. It didn't have the appearance of a wound caused by a high velocity bullet that had not struck anything else; in other words, a puncture wound. Now, you have to also take into consideration, however, whether the bullet enters at a right angle or at a tangent. If it enters at a tangent there will be some length to the wound of entrance. (WC 6H95)

[Benjamin Cole]

24 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Dr. SHAW - The wound entrance was an elliptical wound. In other words, it had a long diameter and a short diameter. It didn't have the appearance of a wound caused by a high velocity bullet that had not struck anything else; in other words, a puncture wound. Now, you have to also take into consideration, however, whether the bullet enters at a right angle or at a tangent. If it enters at a tangent there will be some length to the wound of entrance. (WC 6H95)

Proponents  that the bullet was tumbling as it struck JBC's back do have a problem. 

It is small round hole in the back of JBC shirt.

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/sites/default/files/public/tslac/landing/documents/jfk-damaged-clothing18.pdf

See photo ID'ed as "shirt back, right shoulder"

Note the dimensions 3/8ths by 3/8ths inch, and that is after artificial enlargement to remove cloth for testing. 

That hole is just large enough to admit a non-tumbling shot from a the large Western ammo slug used by Mannlicher Carcanos, which has a diameter of a little more than 1/4 inch.

This is dispositive. The slug that struck JBC was not tumbling. That is proven by the hole in the back of his shirt.

How the "tumbling bullet" blah-blah lasted a day is...inexplicable. 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Micah Mileto]

14 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Dr. SHAW - The wound entrance was an elliptical wound. In other words, it had a long diameter and a short diameter. It didn't have the appearance of a wound caused by a high velocity bullet that had not struck anything else; in other words, a puncture wound. Now, you have to also take into consideration, however, whether the bullet enters at a right angle or at a tangent. If it enters at a tangent there will be some length to the wound of entrance. (WC 6H95)

Shaw's clarifying statements were 15 years later, but it is true that "lower-quality" witness evidence can have the ability to effect the credibility or interpretations of earlier "higher quality" witness evidence.

[Bob Ness]

5 hours ago, Lance Payette said:

Anyone who has been involved with the investigation of accident scenes knows that seemingly impossible things happen all the time.

One problem with the Myer animation is his use of the entry and exit points of the projectile and his use of the jacket as a reference (I'm not much steeped in the effort I admit). I believe (going from memory here) that I did a 3d model of Kennedy when you and Cliff were having the discussion and mapped JFK's shirt onto the model and ignored the jacket. The shirt clearly shows the entry/exit and using the real shirt as the mapped material reduces the potential inaccuracies to almost nil regarding those two points of reference.

A fitted shirt closely aligns with his skin and the bunching of the jacket and angles become less of a problem. If I recall correctly, I did this to demonstrate the wound location in contrast to the WR locations and confirmed in my mind that Cliff was correct about that. I don't remember going as far as projecting a path through the wound locations (for whatever reason - it's not hard) but imagine I wasn't certain of the torso position. I may still have those models somewhere on an old computer, but the effort wasn't as full-throated as either of these two. I was just goofing around for fun at that time but if I were to redo it to confirm anything (at least in my mind) that's where I'd start. I'm pretty certain my impression showed that the path suggested a level or barely negligible declination or descending path relative to JFK's position. Lotsa variables though.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Bob Ness

[Guest]

On 1/1/2023 at 5:43 PM, Micah Mileto said:

What do you mean "take it with a grain of salt"? Dr. Shaw personally insisted that Connally's back wound was not particularly oval.

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[Chris Davidson]

On 2/24/2022 at 7:16 AM, Micah Mileto said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niyDUSF02Zc&

This video was unlisted, so it went unnoticed for a year.

Now we at least know that this project didn't go unfinished. Now if we could just have Leiloglou's digital files, for all we know, we may have forensic proof of a conspiracy on our hands.

Thanks for the link Micah.

I encourage watching a particular segment starting at 22:20 for approx 3.5 minutes.

Then, take into consideration the sprocket hole span of extant z207-212.

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

That segment includes the conclusion the SBT alignment would have worked down at extant z313 except for the correct Connally body size. 

The CE884 version never released for public consumption contained calculations (imo) supporting the video.

In other words, the official elevation used in CE884 for JFK's height above the street was 3.27ft for all entries.

 

[Chris Davidson]

But we know, according to official records, JFK's head height above the street was 52.78"= 4.398ft.

You can't establish truthful trajectories using the same elevation adjustment, when body parts with different elevations were hit.

 

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

The flat line distance for the first shot measured by Robert West was 163.64ft.
The flat line distance for extant z207 was 162.34ft
So, at approx extant z208, West determined a first shot response.
Referring to the initial gif, what are the odds that the Zfilm section missing the sprocket hole images would reside from extant z208-z211 with extant z212 (red box) showing somebody in the most awkward position(body orientation) as if they are reacting to what event?

Credit to Robert West/Tom Purvis

[Matthew Koch]

18 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

The flat line distance for the first shot measured by Robert West was 163.64ft.
The flat line distance for extant z207 was 162.34ft
So, at approx extant z208, West determined a first shot response.
Referring to the initial gif, what are the odds that the Zfilm section missing the sprocket hole images would reside from extant z208-z211 with extant z212 (red box) showing somebody in the most awkward position(body orientation) as if they are reacting to what event?

Credit to Robert West/Tom Purvis

Chris you are featured in a Youtube video, fyi

 

[Chris Davidson]

Matthew,

Thank you for the link.

[Chris Davidson]

On 1/24/2023 at 11:28 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Thanks for the link Micah.

I encourage watching a particular segment starting at 22:20 for approx 3.5 minutes.

Then, take into consideration the sprocket hole span of extant z207-212.

 

 

The SS started their re-enactment on Dec2, 1963 and ended on Dec4 with a plat created Dec 5th.
They placed 3 pylons (which represented the limo front end) in the street.
The following gif shows the SS agent putting a pylon down at what would be JFK’s z235 plotted position.
When they filmed this from the snipers nest with the boxes in place, they realized it was impossible to view the limo and occupants looking over the box arrangement before extant z235.
And, since the z207 survey had the rifle placed at 14.04” (incrementally higher as it moves further down Elm) above the window ledge, which I believe was approx 4” above the 10" window box, along with a bullet hole in JFK at 3.27ft above the pavement, a blind shot would have been in order.

Keeping this in mind, go back and watch the segment I suggested, provided by Micah.

 

[Chris Davidson]

Since I'm quite sure that a blind person didn't do any shooting, sometimes it helps to use the official documentation as a guide.

For instance, the surveyed rifle height for extant z207 was 65.05ft from the TSBD base.

Use that height, move the shooter's location to the TSBD west end connecting it to a plotted z223, use Shaw's 25° trajectory and I'd say Connally is a hit.

Shaw was wise to the WC deception.