Does the WC mention the bullet in the top bar of the windshield?

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

Does anyone have any research on the bullet that struck the top bar of the windshield in the limousine that JFK was riding on?

[Denny Zartman]

I believe the official story is that it was a dent that was there prior to the assassination and was made during attaching or detaching of the detachable roof.

I also recall that the edge of the detachable roof/bubble did not have anything at that spot that could have caused that dent, though I cannot confirm this as a fact.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Denny Zartman
Typo

[Joe Bauer]

I've done some seriously curious reading of research ( admittedly layman limited and not a lot available ) on the provenance of the indentation and of related limo connected personnel testimony regarding it.

Our own esteemed JFK Limo expert forum member Ms. Pamela Brown is much more our go to researcher on this subject from what I remember.

From my own reading however, I have postulated that the indentation was "not" there before the shooting on 11,22,1963.

Agent Kellerman testified to the WC he didn't recall noticing/seeing the indentation before the shooting. And it was just inches above and in front of his eyes the entire motorcade. 

Other WC interviewed limo connected personnel would not "commit" to seeing the indentation earlier than 11,22,1963 either.

The WC "was" curious about the indentation enough to ask a decent amount of questions regarding it.

My common sense take on the indentation was that with all the personnel involved in storing, securing, transporting, maintaining, cleaning, inspecting,  preparing ( occasional bubble top installing and removal) and then finally driving JFK's limo...

How could the indentation "not" have been noticed before the shooting?

My simple man-on-the-street analogy of the indentation being missed or ignored has always been the following;

If my own car had a 1/4th to 1/2 inch deep hole dent ( with scrunched metal inches around this as well ) like the one in JFK's inner windshield frame I would have noticed it within one, or in the least, a few days of it happening.

It's a mean and obvious dent. I could not have missed seeing this. Every time I looked in my windshield rear view mirror ( which we all do dozens of times in our daily driving and the dent was mere inches next to it ) I would have thought ..."what in the He]] caused that?" 

Now, with dozens of storing, maintaining, cleaning, transporting, security checking and bubble top preparing and then driving the limo responsible minded professionals constantly in and around JFK's limo at least when it was used ( which it was a lot right before Dallas ) how could the dent be missed?

If I was professionally responsible for JFK's limo and saw that dent, I would have immediately arranged for body shop pros to repair it... wouldn't you?

Also, could the Carcano bullet that crashed through JFK's skull twice ( entering them exiting ) still been intact enough to then hammer itself a quarter to half inch into hardened chrome like the dent shows?

If that JFK limo inner windshield frame indentation was made during the shooting that day, "Houston, we have a problem."

Even the entrance angle of the indentation is wrong. It looks to me like it came from an angle slightly to the right versus a straight on angle from JFK's exiting head wound at the time.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[John Butler]

58 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

If my own car had a half to one inch deep hole dent ( with scrunched metal inches around this as well ) like the one in JFK's inner windshield frame I would have noticed it within one, or in the least, a few days of it happening.

And, you would have probably heard the gunshot.

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

To the top left of the steering wheel, there seems to be another bullet hole.  What this hole mentioned by anyone?

Does anyone have pictures of the inside of the limousine before November 22, 1963?

[Michael Crane]

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the hole near the steering wheel.It is too perfect and appears to be a car part.There were pictures posted on here,but I'd have to search for them.Lot's & lots of pictures are no longer visible & have vanished.

[Sean Coleman]

6 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Does anyone have any research on the bullet that struck the top bar of the windshield in the limousine that JFK was riding on?

This pic from June 63 shows no damage. But I am sure there’s a pic of the undamaged windshield tin trim from the Air Force Base visit on 21 November out there somewhere…..frustratingly cannot  find it 

[Joe Bauer]

5 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

This pic from June 63 shows no damage. But I am sure there’s a pic of the undamaged windshield tin trim from the Air Force Base visit on 21 November out there somewhere…..frustratingly cannot  find it 

Yes SC.

This June 1963 picture "proves" that at least we know for sure that up until that time the limo did not have the indentation.

Great pic by the way. Thanks for finding and posting this.

I think I also saw a picture posted once of the limo that with magnification you could see no indentation. And this was just days before 1,22,1963.

That photo could prove once and for all that the indentation happened during the shooting with a slim possibility that it happened just days before.

One must strongly and logically consider the profound smoking gun implications of this indentation if it occurred during the Dealey Plaza shooting. 

With an incoming entry angle clearly farther right to left than the Texas School Book Depository 6th floor window to JFK's head shot bullet trajectory, it shows another gunman...perhaps in a window location opposite of the 6th floor window one?

[Pat Speer]

The dent in the chrome along with the crack in the windshield suggest there we're two projectiles impacting the front section of the limo during what Kellerman called a flurry of shots. No, this doesn't mean two bullets. It does mean, however, that the two bullet fragments found in the front section of the car--the nose of the bullet and the base of the bullet--arrived at his location as separate pieces. if you read the HSCA pathology panel carefully--which few have--it's clear they knew that a bullet impacting on the back of the head and breaking up within the skull would not create the large fractures observed at the supposed exit. They also believed the Clark Panel's fib about a 6.5 mm fragment being found on the back of the skull. So they had to explain how the presumably intact bullet exiting the skull 1) left a round lead shape on the back of the skull, and 2) made two separate impacts on the front of the limo. 

Well, Baden has proclaimed that 1) the round lead shape he mistakenly believes was found on the back of the skull just rubbed off the back of the bullet (huh???) and 2) the bullet which did not explode upon impact with the skull exploded instead upon impact with the windshield frame, and that a piece of this continued on to hit the windshield.

This is smellier than Bandini Mountain, and yet this kind of nonsense goes unchecked because 1) LNs don't question anything belched up by experts outside of what was belched up by the acoustics experts, and 2) most CTs are too busy with what to them are sexier issues. 

It's a sad state of affairs. 

[Michael Crane]

Respectfully Pat,it does mean two bullets.

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

The dent in the chrome along with the crack in the windshield suggest there we're two projectiles impacting the front section of the limo during what Kellerman called a flurry of shots. No, this doesn't mean two bullets. It does mean, however, that the two bullet fragments found in the front section of the car--the nose of the bullet and the base of the bullet--arrived at his location as separate pieces. if you read the HSCA pathology panel carefully--which few have--it's clear they knew that a bullet impacting on the back of the head and breaking up within the skull would not create the large fractures observed at the supposed exit. They also believed the Clark Panel's fib about a 6.5 mm fragment being found on the back of the skull. So they had to explain how the presumably intact bullet exiting the skull 1) left a round lead shape on the back of the skull, and 2) made two separate impacts on the front of the limo. 

Well, Baden has proclaimed that 1) the round lead shape he mistakenly believes was found on the back of the skull just rubbed off the back of the bullet (huh???) and 2) the bullet which did not explode upon impact with the skull exploded instead upon impact with the windshield frame, and that a piece of this continued on to hit the windshield.

This is smellier than Bandini Mountain, and yet this kind of nonsense goes unchecked because 1) LNs don't question anything belched up by experts outside of what was belched up by the acoustics experts, and 2) most CTs are too busy with what to them are sexier issues. 

It's a sad state of affairs. 

 

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Michael Crane said:

Respectfully Pat,it does mean two bullets.

 

I think you are correct in that it means two bullets struck Kennedy in the head. But the two impacts on the windshield and windshield frame are best explained by the impact of two pieces of the same bullet, that had first struck Kennedy. 1) The damage to the bullet fragments in evidence indicate they were traveling at a high velocity upon impact. 2) The damage to the windshield and windshield frame suggest that what hit them was traveling at a much reduced velocity. It thereby follows that the two fragments were no longer traveling at a high velocity when they struck the windshield and windshield frame. While one might want to propose that two never-found bullets traveling at a subsonic speed hit the windshield and windshield frame, this would fail to explain where the badly damaged fragments found in the front seat area came from.

And no, I don't think they were planted. As stated, the condition of the bullets in combination with the condition of the limo suggests this bullet broke up on the top right side of Kennedy's head. This could hardly have been what the presumed planners of the assassination would have wanted. 

[Michael Crane]

Look at the distortion in the metal.I would not suggest this as low velocity.Especially if that chrome piece is stainless steel.Just the other day I read that they put a 6.5 Carcano bullet to see if it fit in the hole (and it did)

Now way can two fragments do that kind of damage.Remember there was a through & through hole in the windshield.

[Michael Crane]

8 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

 

Edited because it posted twice.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Michael Crane

[Pamela Brown]

This is mentioned in SS Chief Rowley's Jan.6, 1964 letter:

http://ss100x.com/Rowley3.gif

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

I have a different take into the assassination.  I don't believe a single conclusion from the WC.  I don't believe the order of the shots from first to last.  I don't believe any of it.

With my mindset in place, I started to view the Zapruder film after z313. At z355, there is a little upward plume on the center top of the windshield. z356-358 there seems to be a slight puff of smoke that left the windshield and an upward angle then two black dots appear above the limo.  I inverted the frames.  At z355, the upward plume from the center top of the windshield can be seen much better, z356-358, it sort of looks like a smoke streaming at an upward angle with two white dots appearing above the limo.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Keyvan Shahrdar