What is the Deep State?

[Paul Brancato]

There seems to be a general consensus that Deep State is an artificial construct. That’s interesting, considering that most of us don’t think the 1960’s Assassinations were random lone nut events. Chomsky said flat out that it wasn’t hidden, but rather in plain sight, and therefore not ‘deep’. I’m closer to Chris on this. I suppose elites conspiring with each other doesn’t necessarily constitute a Deep State. One of the favorite conspiracy theories these days is ‘The Great Reset’. If true, that would imply a global Deep State I suppose. I’m not quite sure what to make of this theory. Is there any good documentation that the World Economic Forum is plotting global technocracy, using or even creating pandemics or mass migrations due to war to create a new paradigm? 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

There seems to be a general consensus that Deep State is an artificial construct. That’s interesting, considering that most of us don’t think the 1960’s Assassinations were random lone nut events. Chomsky said flat out that it wasn’t hidden, but rather in plain sight, and therefore not ‘deep’. I’m closer to Chris on this. I suppose elites conspiring with each other doesn’t necessarily constitute a Deep State. One of the favorite conspiracy theories these days is ‘The Great Reset’. If true, that would imply a global Deep State I suppose. I’m not quite sure what to make of this theory. Is there any good documentation that the World Economic Forum is plotting global technocracy, using or even creating pandemics or mass migrations due to war to create a new paradigm? 

Youtube has removed the original video between Joe Rogan and Maajid Nawaz. 

I have no idea who the chap is at the start but, should we ponder the discussion from 1:05 - 1:50 between Rogan and Nawaz. 

Rishi Sunak, the UK chancellor of the exchequer has proposed a CBDC (Central bank digital currency) but, what has also come to light is that they have the ability to apply permissions which determine what you can and can’t spend your money on. You goto the supermarket to buy a 6 pack of beer and your payment method declines, instead you’re allowed to buy some Bill Gates artificial milk. Would such a thing be a loss of our freedoms? Yes. Would it be overreach? Yes. Nobody voted for it, it wasn’t a campaign policy. Is that evidence of a “deep state” working behind the scenes to do something detrimental to the voter? Who benefits? 
I can say that most people on this forum are pro democracy, this kind of thing is completely incompatible with that. 
 

Do also think us all going digital and the state being able to switch your ability to buy food off, is a good thing? How will it be used? 
 

Full podcast is here between Rogan and Nawaz. It’s a very interesting long form discussion. 

https://rumble.com/vvexre-must-watch-joe-rogan-talks-with-maajid-nawaz-episode-1780.html

[Matt Allison]

6 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

There seems to be a general consensus that Deep State is an artificial construct.

The original, general overview that Peter Dale Scott came up with was fairly on point, IMO.

But the bullsh*t that Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and the rest of the Trump traitors have been pushing since 2015 has nothing to do with that. They co-opted the term, made up their own definition, and used it to manipulate useful idiots.

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

The original, general overview that Peter Dale Scott came up with was fairly on point, IMO.

But the bullsh*t that Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and the rest of the Trump traitors have been pushing since 2015 has nothing to do with that. They co-opted the term, made up their own definition, and used it to manipulate useful idiots.

Kind of like Antifa.  Does it not mean Anti-Fascist?  Are they not the ones trying to turn us into a Fascist State?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Kind of like Antifa.  Does it not mean Anti-Fascist?  Are they not the ones trying to turn us into a Fascist State?

Tis like that. 

Its almost like you masquerade under a name or cause that buys you time doing the exact thing you profess to be against. 
Very Orwellian. 

 

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

The original, general overview that Peter Dale Scott came up with was fairly on point, IMO.

But the bullsh*t that Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and the rest of the Trump traitors have been pushing since 2015 has nothing to do with that. They co-opted the term, made up their own definition, and used it to manipulate useful idiots.

Pretty much my point. But I also wondered whether the continuous magnification of the Bannon Stone redefinition of the term was not perhaps serving a hidden purpose. In general I find that the ridiculous conspiracy theories that abound these days cause people to either become rabid, or the opposite - to close their minds to real conspiracies. Who benefits? 

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Kind of like Antifa.  Does it not mean Anti-Fascist?  Are they not the ones trying to turn us into a Fascist State?

Anyone that dresses in black and wreaks havoc is called Antifa. I suspect there are both real anarchists and agent provocateurs identified under that one umbrella. 

[Ron Bulman]

Is this not all about framing?  The deep state is now not about control of the government since 1963 but every conspiracy theory out there?

About fascism really coming from the right but being blamed on the left? 

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

About fascism really coming from the right but being blamed on the left? 

That is definitely happening, but there's also the nihilist element of Antifa, the ones that want policing ended and hate anything capitalistic.

That segment of Antifa are often just performative jagoffs, who are still on their parent's cell phone plan.

If they're really anti-fascist, then they'll get their butts to the polls in November, where change can actually occur. 

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Pretty much my point. But I also wondered whether the continuous magnification of the Bannon Stone redefinition of the term was not perhaps serving a hidden purpose. In general I find that the ridiculous conspiracy theories that abound these days cause people to either become rabid, or the opposite - to close their minds to real conspiracies. Who benefits? 

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that the Deep State manipulates,  coopts and absorbs people across the aisle. 

Does the Disinformation Governance Board, or corporatist-state censorship of the news come from the left or right? 

What was behind the Russiagate hoax? The Wuhan lab leak being not only being "debunked" but discussions of it banned? The Brian Sicknick instant hagiography? The Hunter Biden laptop as "Russian disinformation"?

Riddle me this: Robert Mueller is the head of the FBI on 9/11, and then  says they have wrapped up the investigation a month later. He then testifies before Congress that Iraq has WMD. Surely, Mueller is a Deep State apparatchik. 

His next prominent job is running the Mueller investigation of Trump. Lis Cheney & Co. now going at it. These are not Deep Staters? 

None of this is to say Trump was a nice guy. But establishment DC wanted Trump out. 

Think about it: The left wing, worked up into a fever, nearly manic  pitch against Big Bad Orange by a compliant media, has become a tool of the Deep State. 

They are still talking about Trump.  The story is always Trump. 

And that is the story, in a way. The story is always Trump, abortion, gun control, ID politics, gender issues---every divisive issue is the story, but never the huge budget for a global guard service for multinationals, and the decline of the American middle class. 

 

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

Add on:

"The Crisis of Election Security

As the midterms approach, America’s electronic voting systems are more vulnerable than ever. Why isn’t anyone trying to fix them?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/magazine/election-security-crisis-midterms.html

So, in 2018, the NYT declares US election security is an a "crisis." 

A crisis! 

In 2020? The issue was closed. 

 

[Paul Brancato]

7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Add on:

"The Crisis of Election Security

As the midterms approach, America’s electronic voting systems are more vulnerable than ever. Why isn’t anyone trying to fix them?"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/magazine/election-security-crisis-midterms.html

So, in 2018, the NYT declares US election security is an a "crisis." 

A crisis! 

In 2020? The issue was closed. 

 

This is certainly true. It was a crisis 10-15 years ago, but only the far left seemed to care. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Paul Brancato

[Kirk Gallaway]

Just to give you some assortment of the right wing thing "deep state" theories. I got sent this one. Chris, you might love this. He sounds just like you. This guy more recently has lost millions of dollars of his subscriber's money in cryptocurrency, and now in sour grapes, is promoting yet another"Great Reset" film, where he quotes the great Ronald Reagan.

There's no doubt there are monied interests would sooner see the crypto craze fall dead and die, but on the other hand, some are actually buying them up now when they are low. Is that a conspiracy?

Some have made 10's of thousands of % with no real knowledge of what they're doing. But, some are paying the piper right now. How often are the people who espouse these theories just people who are just blaming conspiracies for lives they don't want to take responsibility for?

And again, on the other hand, in this case, how many people are trying to dig their way out of a hole, by capitalizing on the "Great Reset".

But the truth is, the "Great Reset" is already a huge marketing scam in the financial markets! It's big money now!

https://mail.yahoo.com/d/folders/1/messages/227001?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAXJnXIczNokRs4cU8lg_1_xuqCdlRWP2Cap1X-mBfTyVsSvNFFD2d24ARqbIUFtmWOF803KkvP23jGh7D8PcSRqEo0zgjhTac5G8pjjmgAa0LeNYyxe_wP6iNFpQwA6ot3QmB1hgxSWPmLUHutUwULvDtTyoaQznRZKitRzKtpG

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Kirk Gallaway

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Just to give you some assortment of the right wing thing "deep state" theories. I got sent this one. Chris, you might love this. He sounds just like you. This guy more recently has lost millions of dollars of his subscriber's money in cryptocurrency, and now in sour grapes, is promoting yet another"Great Reset" film, where he quotes the great Ronald Reagan.

There's no doubt there are monied interests would sooner see the crypto craze fall dead and die, but on the other hand, some are actually buying them up now when they are low. Is that a conspiracy?

Some have made 10's of thousands of % with no real knowledge of what they're doing. But, some are paying the piper right now. How often are the people who espouse these theories just people who are just blaming conspiracies for lives they don't want to take responsibility for?

And again, on the other hand, in this case, how many people are trying to dig their way out of a hole, by capitalizing on the "Great Reset".

But the truth is, the "Great Reset" is already a huge marketing scam in the financial markets! It's big money now!

https://mail.yahoo.com/d/folders/1/messages/227001?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAXJnXIczNokRs4cU8lg_1_xuqCdlRWP2Cap1X-mBfTyVsSvNFFD2d24ARqbIUFtmWOF803KkvP23jGh7D8PcSRqEo0zgjhTac5G8pjjmgAa0LeNYyxe_wP6iNFpQwA6ot3QmB1hgxSWPmLUHutUwULvDtTyoaQznRZKitRzKtpG

 

My neighbour to the right with better sea views than me is a billionaire from crypto. He’s a heck of a conspiracy theorist and a deep state believer. I guess some are just lucky. 🍀 

I don’t feel bitter. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Chris Barnard

[W. Niederhut]

Paul,

     Russ Baker published an interesting op-ed on February 22, 2017 about the mainstream media's "Deep State conversion moment."  (I had to track this one down on another forum where I had posted it on... February 22, 2017-- one month after Trump's inauguration.)

     That was around the time that Fox News and the Trumpsters first "discovered" the concept of the "Deep State"-- part of Trump's public relations effort to blame his involvement with the Kremlin on persecution by the FBI, etc.

     By February of 2017, Donald Trump was frantically trying to shut down the FBI investigation of Michael Flynn's efforts to undermine the sanctions imposed against Russia for meddling in the 2016 U.S. election.  Trump, ultimately, fired FBI Director James Comey on May 9, 2017 for his refusal to end the Flynn investigation.

Russ Baker on the Media’s Deep State Conversion Moment - WhoWhatWhy

February 17, 2017

Edited June 3, 2022 by W. Niederhut