Was Oswald a right winger LARPing as a lefty?

[Tom Gram]

35 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I personally think that whole idea about Oswald being a commie loner is pretty much ridiculous.  I think Posner started it. As much of what he did was an act of desperation, I think this was also.  He just did not want to confront the plentiful evidence of Oswald working out of that building. As I said, I list ten witnesses who attest to either that or some kind of friendly relationship with Oswald.

And I did not include Jesse Core.  Core worked for Shaw, was his right hand man.  When Oswald was leafleting on Canal Street, he just happened to be there.  He brought a leaflet back that had 544 Camp Street on it.  Out of the ITM building, he sent it to the FBI office, with an arrow pointing to that address.  Core knew what was going on, in advance of the ITM leafleting incident.

As per what was going on with DeBrueys and Customs, with Banister, both these guys, Regis Kennedy and DeBrueys knew what Oswald was doing there that summer.  If there was such a meeting at the Customs Office, Banister was there, or he was briefed on it.  It might be that Banister was running the FBI part of the operation with Oswald discrediting the FPCC, and Smith standing in for the CIA.

I will say this, I really wish I had this stuff when I questioned DeBrueys in Metaire.

I agree. How anyone can believe at this point that the FPCC stuff was anything but an act is mind boggling, IMO. 

I also agree that DeBruyes and Kennedy knew what was going on. Also, Core was an informant for DeBruyes for years on Cuban matters. DeBruyes went to him in ‘62 to provide a reference for Arnesto Rodriguez when the FBI were considering upgrading Rodriguez from PSI to numbered informant, and Core was a staple informant on the New Orleans Field Office semi-annual master reports on activities of pro and anti-Castro revolutionary groups.

The first group listed on every one of those reports going back to 1961 was the FPCC - yet somehow, in the report published 8/7/63, the FBI reported no information had been obtained, even though Oswald had been communicating with the FPCC and passing out flyers for months. 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=74934#relPageId=2

Core is listed on page 5. 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Paul Cummings]

There's nothing in Oswald's background from his young adulthood of being left wing. From Uncle, CAP and until the Marines it's not like he's surrounded himself with a bunch of liberals. 

[James DiEugenio]

Well and let us not forget, in 1963 he is in the midst of two of the most rightwing groups in America.

The White Russians in Dallas and the Cuban exiles in New Orleans

Do communists do this kind of thing?

 

[Ron Bulman]

Not hardly.  It's not Right, but because of them Lefty's gone?  He played the fair in Dallas one year . . . 

 

[Pete Mellor]

19 hours ago, Mike Kiely said:

Appreciate the ref, Pete. So Oswald pulls the leaflet stunt to embarrass someone he has no association with. Methinks, Guy protested too much. Some people aren't big fans of Anthony Summers, either, but I'll go with his interview with Delphine Roberts (The Kennedy Conspiracy, 1980) concerning Oswald and her boss. Unless, of course, she only related her story to embarrass Guy's surviving relatives. 

Just to expand the quote in book's Notes which states:-'Ross Banister, HSCA interview by L.J. Delsa, 11 August 1978. (Information from interviewer's notes.)'

Delphine Roberts.  In a case piled high with paradox, she seems to be another.  She tells that Banister said "Oswald is with us, he's associated with the office." 

In '67 she tells the Garrison probe that she had no knowledge of LHO.

In '78 statements to HSCA again changed.  First, she never saw Oswald, then she did see Oswald in Banister's office. She then tells a story of Banister taking her upstairs to see an office with Cuba posters on the wall.  Sounds very strange as this was not possible from the Lafayette office.

Newman himself had no knowledge of Oswald having a Camp St office, nor the Camp St., janitor (who actually lived on the premises) never saw Oswald there.

[Pete Mellor]

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Well and let us not forget, in 1963 he is in the midst of two of the most rightwing groups in America.

The White Russians in Dallas and the Cuban exiles in New Orleans

Do communists do this kind of thing?

 

Maybe not Jim, but double agents do.  Ossie could have been leading three lives!  Or two.  U.S. Intelligence and Pro Castro.  I wonder if Phillip's thread couldn't be re-titled 'Was Oswald a Leftie Larping as a right winger?'  (Just chucking this stuff in for the debate.)  Yet, there are reports of Oswald in N.O. accompanied by Latinos, such as visit to Pena's bar.  Also the pamphlets that were printed under the name of Osborne and that person not being identified as Oswald.  Didn't Quiroga think he was a Castro agent too?  Marina's Fidel/Hidell statement, + her plane hijack to Cuba story....what would be the point of these statements if they were just inventions?

I'm certainly not in the lone nut camp because Ruby wouldn't need to stalk and rub out Oswald if he was a loner.  So what did he know or what was he part of?  CIA? Mafia?  Another thought is many suspect that Trafficante was a Castro agent and Ruby had links to Santos too.  Paradox on paradox.

 

[Tom Gram]

16 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Marina's Fidel/Hidell statement, + her plane hijack to Cuba story....what would be the point of these statements if they were just inventions?

As far as I know, the Fidel/Hidell statement was first made when the FBI showed Marina a copy of an FPCC flyer on 12/2/63. According to the 12/3 report on this interview, all Marina said was she “thought this was a fictitious name made up by Oswald” and she “ventured the thought” that Fidel and Hidell were a phonetic thing. 

The report does not make it clear that Marina actually knew that Oswald had used that name, or when she had first heard it. Basically, the report reads like that was just her impression when she was shown the flyer: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=97027#relPageId=34

The teletype that preceded this report by one day, and thus was sent on the actual day of the interview, clarifies things a bit. It says: “Marina stated that the name Hidell was probably a fictitious name made up by Oswald and could be phonetic with Fidel” 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57711#relPageId=76

That pretty much settles it IMO, but it gets worse. Marina told three different stories about the Hidell alias: 1) Oswald never used it; 2) She first heard it when Oswald mentioned it on the radio (he didn’t); and 3) Oswald forced her to sign the FPCC card under duress. 

When Marina testified, the Hidell/Fidel connection was brought up in the context of the second (false) story.

It’s hardly proof of anything, IMO.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Tom Gram

[James DiEugenio]

Delphine Roberts did not change for the HSCA.

If you follow her story, she would not talk to Garrison. Period.

She did not want to talk to the HSCA either.

But Bob Buras visited her more than once.  And on his second visit she did start to talk a bit to him.  But not all of it made it into the volumes, since clearly, the HSCA was trying to neuter the evidence about Oswald being an agent provocateur out of 544 Camp Street.

It was only when Summers talked to her that she really revealed the story.  How this happened is interesting.  Again, she did not want to talk.  She demanded that Summers meet her at her lawyer's office.  Her lawyer was one of these Bircher types. He advised her not to talk.  So she did not.

After, Summers went down to his car and pulled out of the parking lot.  Like it always does in the afternoon in New Orleans, it was raining.  Roberts was standing in front of the office and Summers invited her to get in and he would give her a ride.  She did, and as they started off, within a couple of minutes, she started to weep.  And slowly but surely she started in on the whole tale about Oswald.  And then Summers interviewed her daughter,  who corroborated the story.  Not only is Roberts backed up by her daughter, but also by  Mary Brengel, a temporary secretary from the office.. She told Scott Malone that Roberts told her Oswald was in the office. (Destiny Betrayed, second edition, page 111)

So there is no question about this today.  And again, as with the CRC, the HSCA did not do a good job with this.  They buried most of the good stuff, and even tried to cover up for Kerry Thornley, who was also there. (Destiny Betrayed, second edition, p. 188)

If we understand who Billings and Blakey were, we understand why this was not cleanly dealt with in the HSCA volumes.  Same thing with Clinton/Jackson. The best stuff, like Manchester in executive session, was classified.

(One last point, that sell out Posner quoted Roberts as going back on her story for him.  What he did not reveal is that Roberts was in a nursing home with a case of dementia at the time. I was told this by Allen Campbell down in New Orleans.  It pays to travel around.)

Edited July 16, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Pete Mellor]

5 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

It’s hardly proof of anything, IMO.

Where Marina is concerned, I tend to agree.  Anyway, this is for you Tom.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SWPZ-RydpInuUVDmq2Mne2JZ6zpSIORZ/view?usp=sharing

 

[Pete Mellor]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

It pays to travel around.

Cheers Jim, as usual, comprehensive info. I knew Roberts was doolally when Posner got to her.

[Derek Thibeault]

Could there be any thoughts that Oswald was trying to save the president? Besides his note to Hosty and his potentially calling in the crime. Could he have been trying to protect him? It's probably more plausible that he was placed there to keep an eye out and then take the fall. I like the theory of the Parallax View where Oswald was kind of the good guy here. Even if a right-winger it doesn't mean he wanted him dead, some people in the CIA/FBI take their jobs seriously no matter what their political leanings are. Or is my view romanticized?

[Joe Bauer]

Exclusive: Jim Garrison Talks to Jack Martin

 

One of the few known pictures of Jack Martin.

Jim Garrison interviewed Jack Martin in his office on December 14, 1966. Here is a recording of that meeting: The quality of the recording is not good. I have worked months to produce a transcript.

Make what you will of the linked tape above.

And Jack Martin himself.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

Joe, please.

Fred Litwin?