David Mamet to direct "2/Days/1963" about Sam Giancana's Role in JFK's Murder

[Robin Finn]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019271/New-film-relative-Mafia-boss-sheds-fresh-light-Presidents-assassination-60-years-on.html

According to this article, Roselli was shooting from the Grassy Knoll and Charles Nicoletti was riding along with Tippit to take out Oswald??? What a joke. It would be funny if it wasn't so disgusting. "The Mafia,and only the Mafia,did it " scenarios never seem to have a problem getting attention and promotion. If Roselli was such a super operative capable of completing any intelligence operation,as Waldron and others would like us to believe,why did he end up dismembered in a drum?

[Pat Speer]

3 hours ago, Robin Finn said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019271/New-film-relative-Mafia-boss-sheds-fresh-light-Presidents-assassination-60-years-on.html

According to this article, Roselli was shooting from the Grassy Knoll and Charles Nicoletti was riding along with Tippit to take out Oswald??? What a joke. It would be funny if it wasn't so disgusting. "The Mafia,and only the Mafia,did it " scenarios never seem to have a problem getting attention and promotion. If Roselli was such a super operative capable of completing any intelligence operation,as Waldron and others would like us to believe,why did he end up dismembered in a drum?

I sense you have a bias against dismembered gangsters. Shame on you. 

[Joe Bauer]

Does anyone think our military in 1963 couldn't have figured out that the Mafia did JFK if they really did?

And that they wouldn't have gone after them full bore for the ultimate crime of murdering their commander in chief?

Our military and all our intelligence agencies were 1,000 X more sophisticated in every way in knowing what was going on everywhere in the US and the rest of the world 24/7  versus the Mafia.

And if the Mafia alone did JFK this super advanced monolith would have figured this out in 2 months. Heck, they would have known about it before hand.

The Mafia was small potatoes compared to our own MIC, which held and controlled the greatest secret in the history of mankind - The Alien ET presence.

UNLESS ... they were somehow involved themselves and used the Mafia for street level, clean up dirty work imo.

Same thing regards "Big Oil."

No one JFK hating group  ... Mafia, Big Oil, White Council, rogue agents, even Castro could have successfully pulled off the BIG EVENT ( and gotten away with it!) by themselves, without our greatest intelligence gathering machine in man's history being outfoxed and out played in knowing or figuring out what they had done.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Does anyone think our military in 1963 couldn't have figured out that the Mafia did JFK if they really did?

And that they wouldn't have gone after them full bore for the ultimate crime of murdering their commander in chief?

Our military and all our intelligence agencies were 1,000 X more sophisticated in every way in knowing what was going on everywhere in the US and the rest of the world 24/7  versus the Mafia.

And if the Mafia alone did JFK this super advanced monolith would have figured this out in 2 months. Heck, they would have known about it before hand.

The Mafia was small potatoes compared to our own MIC, which held and controlled the greatest secret in the history of mankind - The Alien ET presence.

UNLESS ... they were somehow involved themselves and used the Mafia for street level, clean up dirty work imo.

Same thing regards "Big Oil."

No one JFK hating group  ... Mafia, Big Oil, White Council, rogue agents, even Castro could have successfully pulled off the BIG EVENT ( and gotten away with it!) by themselves, without our greatest intelligence gathering machine in man's history being outfoxed and out played in knowing or figuring out what they done.

 

 

I disagree. The selection of Oswald as patsy sent the whole MIC into CYA mode. And besides....Who was at the head of the government upon JFK's death? Johnson... Hoover... Men who were almost certainly compromised and would have no interest in pursuing the truth...

While I can't say the "mob did it" is my preferred scenario, I think it quite silly to rule it out. Ruby, after all, was not connected to the MIC. He had multiple connections to the mob, however, and may have been given "an offer he can't refuse.".  

[Pete Mellor]

5 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

No one JFK hating group  ... Mafia, Big Oil, White Council, rogue agents, even Castro could have successfully pulled off the BIG EVENT ( and gotten away with it!) by themselves, without our greatest intelligence gathering machine in man's history being outfoxed and out played in knowing or figuring out what they done.

Joe, Interesting you mention Castro.  Pro Castro guys are usually the last to be considered as being behind Dallas.  I will admit that whatever group of JFK enemies we look at, it still doesn't seem to fit the full picture.  I can't swallow the lone-nut assassin/magic bullet stuff.  However, Ruby was following somebody's orders to kill Oswald to silence the guy, so logic dictates that Ossie was a participant or had knowledge of what went down.  I've always wondered about fellow FPCC member Gilberto Policarpo Lopez & his flight across the U.S./Mexico border the day after Dallas, and onto a flight in Mexico City to Havana, where he was the only passenger. Also he managed this when his U.S. passport was expired!  Wasn't his brother a high rank in the Cuban army?  Also Mexico City CIA was told by some informant that Lopez was involved in the JFK assassination.  Ruby could be linked to Cuba through Trafficante who some believe was an agent for Fidel.  None of this was investigated at the time, like so many other aspects, and like the Chicago Cubans, so we'll never know.     

[Joe Bauer]

My understanding from reading some article years ago about David Mamet related to his JFK "Blackbird" film project was that he was very critical of JFK conspiracy theories and believers and left wing ideology liberals in general.

Whether Mamet originally thought the JFK killing was a conspiracy and later changed his stripes...I don't know or remember reading.

Be interesting to know if Mamet thinks Oliver Stone is out there with his JFK beliefs and if Stone knows this but accepts the dichotomy impersonally out of pure professional respect. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

16 hours ago, Robin Finn said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019271/New-film-relative-Mafia-boss-sheds-fresh-light-Presidents-assassination-60-years-on.html

According to this article, Roselli was shooting from the Grassy Knoll and Charles Nicoletti was riding along with Tippit to take out Oswald??? What a joke. It would be funny if it wasn't so disgusting. "The Mafia,and only the Mafia,did it " scenarios never seem to have a problem getting attention and promotion. If Roselli was such a super operative capable of completing any intelligence operation,as Waldron and others would like us to believe,why did he end up dismembered in a drum?

Everyone should read this article to see what a joke this thing is.  JFK never authorized the CIA/Mafia plots, the ARRB proved that as is stated in the book JFK Revisited.

Further, the author changed his story, from a documentary film he made in 2011.

Third, Oswald fired at Kennedy?  Really?  From where? The first floor?

Johnny Roselli was one of the assassins?  

This is ridiculous.  Its as bad as Scorsese's picture about Hoffa.

Edited July 17, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Roger Odisio]

Oswald was the designated patsy.  JFK's killers of course knew he didn't do it.  They had to murder him to keep him from defending himself, while allowing a freer hand to the the WC to create a case against him and feed it to media stenographers.  Oswald's had to die whether or not he knew anything about the plot. 

One result: seeing Oswald's death that weekend, Vince Salandria instantly realized there was a government conspiracy.  And set out to look into it. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Does anyone think our military in 1963 couldn't have figured out that the Mafia did JFK if they really did?

And that they wouldn't have gone after them full bore for the ultimate crime of murdering their commander in chief?

Our military and all our intelligence agencies were 1,000 X more sophisticated in every way in knowing what was going on everywhere in the US and the rest of the world 24/7  versus the Mafia.

And if the Mafia alone did JFK this super advanced monolith would have figured this out in 2 months. Heck, they would have known about it before hand.

The Mafia was small potatoes compared to our own MIC, which held and controlled the greatest secret in the history of mankind - The Alien ET presence.

UNLESS ... they were somehow involved themselves and used the Mafia for street level, clean up dirty work imo.

Same thing regards "Big Oil."

No one JFK hating group  ... Mafia, Big Oil, White Council, rogue agents, even Castro could have successfully pulled off the BIG EVENT ( and gotten away with it!) by themselves, without our greatest intelligence gathering machine in man's history being outfoxed and out played in knowing or figuring out what they done.

 

 

 

Having the knowledge is one thing, acting upon it is likely another ?  

I mean, they had all of this information, had infiltrated pretty much all there was to infiltrate (including the departments of their own collegues and other forces..), and yet... their president gets killed ?   

Did they not know, or did they look the other way ? 

None of the high officials were sacked... I don't get it, at least a few were paid to NOT do their job ? 

Probably just one of the reasons for the massive cover-up, hiding the incapability to do the job, or not having done it at all (much worse o/c). 

No matter what it actually was (LHO alone or in a conspiracy, others alone or in a conspiracy,....), security failed OR didn't (re-)act they way it should have. 

O well... officially it was a lone nut... a very conveniant ...(blurr).... euhh... whatever it was.

True or not, it sure was conveniant to most (if not all) high ranking security-officials trying to save their .ss.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Pat Speer]

27 minutes ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

 

Having the knowledge is one thing, acting upon it is likely another ?  

I mean, they had all of this information, had infiltrated pretty much all there was to infiltrate (including the departments of their own collegues and other forces..), and yet... their president gets killed ?   

Did they not know, or did they look the other way ? 

None of the high officials were sacked... I don't get it, at least a few were paid to NOT do their job ? 

Probably just one of the reasons for the massive cover-up, hiding the incapability to do the job, or not having done it at all (much worse o/c). 

No matter what it actually was (LHO alone or in a conspiracy, others alone or in a conspiracy,....), security failed OR didn't (re-)act they way it should have. 

O well... officially it was a lone nut... a very conveniant ...(blurr).... euhh... whatever it was.

True or not, it sure was conveniant to most (if not all) high ranking security-officials trying to save their .ss.  

 

 

 

 

 

One of the most telling snippets about the assassination, IMO, is the SS detail's drinking on the night before.

No, I don't think they got drunk because they knew what was coming.  I think they got drunk a lot, and that night was no different.

But it's telling because the powers that be decided not to punish anyone, because they thought it would be unfair to cast blame for the assassination on anyone besides Oswald. 

Er, let's see.. You're a bodyguard. You're hungover on the job and your boss gets killed. But you don't get punished because the new boss doesn't want anyone but Lee Harvey Oswald to be blamed. Lucky. 

If Oswald wasn't a patsy from the get-go, he most certainly was within a few days of the assassination. 

I mean, think about it. Although the FBI decided to punish some of its agents for their "mistakes" they did so in secret, and Hoover lied about it to the WC. 

This strongly suggests, then, that it had been decided from on high (that is, by LBJ) that Oswald was entirely to blame, and that no one in the government was to be assigned even the slightest blame. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Pat Speer

[James DiEugenio]

If we take out the latter part of the above, the act of those Secret Service agents getting drunk the night before was a clear violation of the code.

But also to hire some firemen to protect the president while one is getting bombed?

Rowley was determined to cover up all the negligence of the Secret Service.

And Elmer Moore was one of his designated cover up artists.

[Joe Bauer]

21 hours ago, Roger Odisio said:

One result: seeing Oswald's death that weekend, Vince Salandria instantly realized there was a government conspiracy.  And set out to look into it

The murder of Oswald right inside the Dallas Police Department building parking garage and watched "live" on national TV by tens of millions of Americans was by far the real beginning of widespread national mistrust and belief in a conspiracy regards the JFK murder.

For two days after JFK was shot and killed, the majority of Americans felt shock, confusion and sadness. Some suspicion and even anger as well. Some felt anger towards the city and area that the assassination took place. Dallas and the deep South.

Knowing of the deep hatred segregationists and extreme right wing organizations and big oil located in that part of the country harbored toward JFK.

But, without seeing JFK actually being shot and only reading about the event, full blown consideration of a conspiracy just wasn't there.

Then came Oswald's murder live on TV by Jack Ruby.

That event was so powerful, not only in it's savage brutality, but even more so in it's core belief common sense and logic shaking implausibility.

The most important criminal suspect in American history? Gunned down right inside a police department building? While in the grasp of two beefy police guards at his side?

Impossible! 

Especially when the DPD "knew" of Oswald's importance as a living suspect and his being the most physically threatened criminal suspect in American history as well.

And what do they do in their role of protecting such an important suspect/prisoner?

They put out press releases to inform the public about the time and place of Oswald's daylight transfer "and" let in a crowd of super energized press into a dark, crammed space where they then parade Oswald within feet of their microphone holding outstretch arms?

Every American knew that the only real chance we and the world had in finding out the truth about the JFK assassination was the capture and holding of it's main suspect...Lee Harvey Oswald.

When Oswald was blasted away, everyone sensed that the truth about what really happened in Dealey Plaza just two days earlier was blasted away as well.

The killing of Oswald ( while in the supposed protective custody of the Dallas PD and right in their own building and hands!) left millions of Americans who watched it live on national TV feeling sick in their stomachs.

Sick with suspicion, anger and loss.

I have posted this proposition many times over the years. To me Oswald's killing was the true beginning of unprecedent national mistrust in our government and the WC finding and a majority belief in a conspiracy regards the JFK event. A majority belief that is still held even after 59 years!

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Pat Speer]

11 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

The murder of Oswald right inside the Dallas Police Department building parking garage and watched "live" on national TV by tens of millions of Americans was by far the real beginning of widespread national mistrust and belief in a conspiracy regards the JFK murder.

For two days after JFK was shot and killed, the majority of Americans felt shock, confusion and sadness. Some suspicion and even anger as well. Some felt anger towards the city and area that the assassination took place. The deep south and Dallas.

Knowing of the deep hatred segregationist and extreme right wing organizations and big oil located in that part of the country harbored toward JFK.

But, without seeing JFK actually being shot and only reading about the event, full blown consideration of a conspiracy just wasn't there.

Then came Oswald's murder live on TV by Jack Ruby.

That event was so powerful, not only in it's savage brutality, but even more so in it's core belief and logic shaking implausibility.

The most important criminal suspect in American history? Gunned down right inside a police department building?

Every American knew that the only real chance we and the world had in finding out the truth about the JFK assassination was the capture and holding of it's main suspect...Lee Harvey Oswald.

When Oswald was blasted away, everyone sensed that the truth about what really happened in Dealey Plaza just two days earlier was blasted away as well.

The killing of Oswald ( while in the supposed protective custody of the Dallas PD and right in their own building and hands!) left millions of Americans who watched it live on national TV feeling sick in their stomachs.

Sick with suspicion, anger and loss.

I have posted this proposition many times over the years. To me Oswald's killing was the true beginning of unprecedent national mistrust in our government and the WC finding and a majority belief in a conspiracy regards the JFK event. A majority belief that is still held even after 59 years!

 

You are correct, Joe. And here, once again, no one got fired over this. Right now his name escapes me but the officer tasked with guarding the ramp was made a scapegoat, but I don't believe he was punished in any way. So this once agains supports that some decision was made from on high that Oswald (and then Ruby) were solely at fault. I remember reading somewhere about the origins of the term "lone-nutter". I think most people today assume it's strictly a reference to Oswald. But it was originally used as a denunciation of the official theory holding that a "lone-nut" acting entirely on his own killed Kennedy, and then a "lone-nut" acting entirely on his own killed Oswald. 

[James DiEugenio]

The murder of Oswald set the stage for decades of skepticism.  The obvious questions, how could Ruby have gotten into the basement, and was this done to silence Oswald?

Pat is referring to office Roy Vaughn. Vaughn insisted that Oswald did not come down the Main Street ramp.  And he passed his polygraph.  In fact, even the WC had problems with this.  Burt Griffin called out Patrick Dean, chief of security that day, to his face. (DiEugenio, The JFK Assassination: The Evidence Today, p. 229) Dean failed his polygraph, even though he wrote his own questions. (ibid). When the HSCA went looking for the record of his test, they could not find it.

But they did find Don Flusche. (ibid, p. 227) Flusche caused the HSCA to change their opinion on this issue. He said he parked his car at an angle across the street from the Main Street ramp. He knew Ruby.  He said that Ruby did not come down that ramp and was never on Main Street.  

Now, recall Griffin blowing up at Dean? Griffin wanted to press this issue. Since he thought Dean became part of the cover up and advised Ruby to say he came down the Main Street ramp. Here is the capper to how bad the WC really was.

"Under pressure from Texas authorities like Henry Wade, Commission Chief Counsel J. Lee Rankin backed away from Griffin's memo in which Griffin suggested Dean be made a target of further inquiry." (ibid, p. 230)

 

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Joe Bauer]

On 7/18/2022 at 12:26 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Pretty sickening if you ask me. 

Pat, Jim;

Two weeks ago I came across a video on You Tube that was entirely focused on positioning the armored car into the top opening of the Commerce Street ramp down to the DPD parking garage.

There was film showing the initial arrival of the armored car and film angles of it from the outside street and also from down the ramp looking up.

I need to research the armored car episode more thoroughly so I have edited this post and reduced it's content until I do so.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Joe Bauer