POLICE CAR IN THE ALLEY? NOPE.

[David Josephs]

On 10/13/2022 at 12:55 PM, Sean Coleman said:

Am interested in debates, helps me come to a conclusion.

But BB your rebukes are so 1 dimensional.

ie. Include a pic as back up maybe? 

 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S+Patton+Ave+%26+E+10th+St,+Dallas,+TX+75203/@32.7477864,-96.818734,64a,35y,160.69h,53.12t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x864e999755f98d4f:0x61d2a8e7bc767dd!8m2!3d32.7471779!4d-96.8187386!16s%2Fg%2F11gd_4gnzk?hl=en

The house in 1963 was replaced with a wider house and a structure in the back which were not there in 1963.

In 1963 the "driveway" between 404/406 and 408/410 10th was 2 strips of concrete that did not run all the way to the alley, yet nothing obstructed a driver from turning from the alley to reach these 2 strips of "driveway"... or from backing straight out to the alley...

BB is once again using any way available to distance truth from his own reality.

Who is it that claims to have been the first DPD-related man on the scene? Kenneth Croy
Who is involved with the incriminating wallet which disappears from evidence? Westbrook and Croy

Give you a guess as to who was in that car in the alley...  despite BB et al wishing it wasn't so and using Benavidas to distract you from the point.

 

 

[Bill Brown]

2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S+Patton+Ave+%26+E+10th+St,+Dallas,+TX+75203/@32.7477864,-96.818734,64a,35y,160.69h,53.12t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x864e999755f98d4f:0x61d2a8e7bc767dd!8m2!3d32.7471779!4d-96.8187386!16s%2Fg%2F11gd_4gnzk?hl=en

The house in 1963 was replaced with a wider house and a structure in the back which were not there in 1963.

In 1963 the "driveway" between 404/406 and 408/410 10th was 2 strips of concrete that did not run all the way to the alley, yet nothing obstructed a driver from turning from the alley to reach these 2 strips of "driveway"... or from backing straight out to the alley...

BB is once again using any way available to distance truth from his own reality.

Who is it that claims to have been the first DPD-related man on the scene? Kenneth Croy
Who is involved with the incriminating wallet which disappears from evidence? Westbrook and Croy

Give you a guess as to who was in that car in the alley...  despite BB et al wishing it wasn't so and using Benavidas to distract you from the point.

 

 

 

Oh boy.

 

Someone please tell this misguided soul that 2003 called and it wants it's JFK assassination research back.  Holan did not live on East Tenth Street; she lived halfway down Patton.  She had no view of Tippit's stopped patrol car, Tippit's body in the street and any of the driveways in question on Tenth Street from her apartment on Patton.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Bill Brown

[Bill Brown]

From the Dale Myers blog article:

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2020/11/doris-e-holan-and-tippit-murder.html

 

Where did Doris live?

 

The central question surrounding the Holan story is whether the Holan family actually lived on Tenth Street as claimed by Pulte and Brownlow. 

 

Questions about the Holan family’s residency arose almost immediately when it was discovered that the 1964 Dallas City Directory (which covered the period of the assassination) showed that Doris E. Holan lived at 113 ½ S. Patton Avenue – around the corner from the Tippit shooting scene.

 

Following my initial questioning of Doris Holan’s youngest daughter about where they lived at the time, she located a letter, dated December 26, 1963, from John Holan to “Mrs. Doris E. Holan & Family” living at “113 ½ S. Patton, Dallas, Tex.” The letter, written by her ex-father-in-law, thanked Doris for the Christmas card she had sent – which obviously had been mailed at least a week earlier.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Bill Brown

[Ron Bulman]

13 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

From the Dale Myers blog article:

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2020/11/doris-e-holan-and-tippit-murder.html

 

Where did Doris live?

 

The central question surrounding the Holan story is whether the Holan family actually lived on Tenth Street as claimed by Pulte and Brownlow. 

 

Questions about the Holan family’s residency arose almost immediately when it was discovered that the 1964 Dallas City Directory (which covered the period of the assassination) showed that Doris E. Holan lived at 113 ½ S. Patton Avenue – around the corner from the Tippit shooting scene.

 

Following my initial questioning of Doris Holan’s youngest daughter about where they lived at the time, she located a letter, dated December 26, 1963, from John Holan to “Mrs. Doris E. Holan & Family” living at “113 ½ S. Patton, Dallas, Tex.” The letter, written by her ex-father-in-law, thanked Doris for the Christmas card she had sent – which obviously had been mailed at least a week earlier.

 

Dale Myers, With Malice (Part 1) (kennedysandking.com)

[Bill Brown]

2 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Dale Myers, With Malice (Part 1) (kennedysandking.com)

 

Is something in that long-winded article supposed to refute the information put forth by Myers, re: Holan living on Patton and not Tenth?

 

[Ron Bulman]

10 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

 

Is something in that long-winded article supposed to refute the information put forth by Myers, re: Holan living on Patton and not Tenth?

 

Good catch Bill.  It was directed more at your reliance on Meyers as a source.  Hence the link.  DJ establishes where Doris lived and her line of sight quite clearly above.

[Bill Brown]

30 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Good catch Bill.  It was directed more at your reliance on Meyers as a source.  Hence the link.  DJ establishes where Doris lived and her line of sight quite clearly above.

 

Nonsense.

 

Josephs did no such thing,

 

Perhaps you missed this thread, beginning on page five and it goes on for about four more pages...

 

 

[Michael Kalin]

16 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

The Warren Commission never made any claim about any bus stop at 1:15.  What are you talking about?

 

Ball asked Markham what time she "got her bus" and her reply was "1:15".  The FBI ascertained (from the Dallas Transit System) that a bus stopped there at 1:12, 1:22 and every ten minutes thereafter.  You don't get to just mention the 1:12 bus  without mentioning the 1:22 bus as well.  Markham never said she was catching a 1:12 bus and therefore the possibility remains that she regularly arrived at the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:22 bus.

Correct, the 1:15 bus time is in the WC testimony referenced in the Warren Report. It is dubious since there was no bus scheduled to arrive at Jefferson & Patton at 1:15. Ball should have known this from Barrett's report (Commission No. 630h).

WR claims the murder occurred at 1:15 or 1:16, making a feeble attempt to defeat her explicit statements (DPD & WC) about her 1:06 arrival time at East 10th & Patton. Do you actually think she stopped & stood at the intersection for nearly ten minutes waiting for a cop to get gunned down?

Your absurd speculation that "she regularly arrived at the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:22 bus" means she would have missed the murder entirely from her vantage a block away, waiting for a bus to arrive seven minutes later.

Markham would not have allowed 18 minutes to walk approximately 900 feet to catch a bus at 1:22. Even Barrett's pace would have been beaten that time handily. She walked the two blocks daily. It would not have taken many trips before she (or anyone else) realized she was catching a bus at 1:12 not 1:22.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Michael Kalin

[Tom Gram]

8 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

From the Dale Myers blog article:

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2020/11/doris-e-holan-and-tippit-murder.html

 

Where did Doris live?

 

The central question surrounding the Holan story is whether the Holan family actually lived on Tenth Street as claimed by Pulte and Brownlow. 

 

Questions about the Holan family’s residency arose almost immediately when it was discovered that the 1964 Dallas City Directory (which covered the period of the assassination) showed that Doris E. Holan lived at 113 ½ S. Patton Avenue – around the corner from the Tippit shooting scene.

 

Following my initial questioning of Doris Holan’s youngest daughter about where they lived at the time, she located a letter, dated December 26, 1963, from John Holan to “Mrs. Doris E. Holan & Family” living at “113 ½ S. Patton, Dallas, Tex.” The letter, written by her ex-father-in-law, thanked Doris for the Christmas card she had sent – which obviously had been mailed at least a week earlier.

 

Do we really need to get into this again? It is certainly possible that the Holan family lived on Patton at the time, even probable, but there is zero conclusive evidence that they actually moved from 10th St. by Nov. 22nd. Lad Holans 50+ year old recollections that changed streets while under the influence of Dale Myers are just not credible, so the date can only be nailed down to mid-December. That date isn’t really good enough, cause there are a million reasons the Holans could have moved after the weekend of the assassination. 

[David Josephs]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Good catch Bill.  It was directed more at your reliance on Meyers as a source.  Hence the link.  DJ establishes where Doris lived and her line of sight quite clearly above.

Notice COINTELPRO Tactic of "Playing Dumb" and TOPIC DILUTION... just to name 2.

The image in the link he posted changing subjects is mine...  People who spend their time defending Dale Myers deserve whatever comes their way...  please go see what nonsense BB peddles elsewhere in response to visual physical evidence in support of DM, GP or VB...  very entertaining but a complete waste of time.

14 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Do we really need to get into this again?

Only if you keep BB off ignore... otherwise the same tired sheet which has been proven wrong in the past, gets caught in their throats and regurgitated with a side of bile every time to opportunity presents...

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.  (more possible tactics used below)

Technique #3 - 'TOPIC DILUTION'

Topic dilution is not only effective in forum sliding it is also very useful in keeping the forum readers on unrelated and non-productive issues. This is a critical and useful technique to cause a 'RESOURCE BURN.' By implementing continual and non-related postings that distract and disrupt(trolling ) the forum readers they are more effectively stopped from anything of any real productivity. If the intensity of gradual dilution is intense enough, the readers will effectively stop researching and simply slip into a 'gossip mode.' In this state they can be more easily misdirected away from facts towards uninformed conjecture and opinion. The less informed they are the more effective and easy it becomes to control the entire group in the direction that you would desire the group to go in. It must be stressed that a proper assessment of the psychological capabilities and levels of education is first determined of the group to determine at what level to 'drive in the wedge.' By being too far off topic too quickly it may trigger censorship by a forum moderator.

 

 

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
 

[Charles Blackmon]

BB will go the way of the firearms expert, its inevitable.

[Bill Brown]

7 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

Correct, the 1:15 bus time is in the WC testimony referenced in the Warren Report. It is dubious since there was no bus scheduled to arrive at Jefferson & Patton at 1:15. Ball should have known this from Barrett's report (Commission No. 630h).

WR claims the murder occurred at 1:15 or 1:16, making a feeble attempt to defeat her explicit statements (DPD & WC) about her 1:06 arrival time at East 10th & Patton. Do you actually think she stopped & stood at the intersection for nearly ten minutes waiting for a cop to get gunned down?

Your absurd speculation that "she regularly arrived at the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:22 bus" means she would have missed the murder entirely from her vantage a block away, waiting for a bus to arrive seven minutes later.

Markham would not have allowed 18 minutes to walk approximately 900 feet to catch a bus at 1:22. Even Barrett's pace would have been beaten that time handily. She walked the two blocks daily. It would not have taken many trips before she (or anyone else) realized she was catching a bus at 1:12 not 1:22.

 

"Correct, the 1:15 bus time is in the WC testimony referenced in the Warren Report.  It is dubious since there was no bus scheduled to arrive at Jefferson & Patton at 1:15. Ball should have known this from Barrett's report."

 

Markham is the only one mentioning "1:15".  Your claim that "the Warren Report's 1:15 is false" is faulty.  The Warren Commission never claimed that there was a 1:15 bus; only Markham (and she doesn't necessarily say that the bus stop was scheduled for 1:15).

 

"WR claims the murder occurred at 1:15 or 1:16, making a feeble attempt to defeat her explicit statements (DPD & WC) about her 1:06 arrival time at East 10th & Patton. Do you actually think she stopped & stood at the intersection for nearly ten minutes waiting for a cop to get gunned down?"

 

The police tapes, along with multiple witness descriptions of their actions after the shooting, tell you that Markham is wrong, re: what time it was that she left her apartment.  For example, Ted Callaway tells us that he heard the shots, went to the sidewalk on Patton, saw the gunman trot the full length of the block to Jefferson, then went up to the scene.  Callaway's actions take four minutes at the most (from the time he heard the shots til the time he gets on the patrol car radio).  His report to the police dispatcher is at 1:19.  There are plenty more examples I can give you (and I have, throughout this forum).

 

"Your absurd speculation that "she regularly arrived at the bus stop at 1:15 to catch the 1:22 bus" means she would have missed the murder entirely from her vantage a block away, waiting for a bus to arrive seven minutes later."

 

Speculation:  Markham regularly catches the 1:22  bus and therefore, regularly arrives at the bus stop between 1:15 and 1:20.  This would put her at Tenth and Patton (one block from the bus stop) right at the time of the murder (1:14 to 1:15).

 

"Markham would not have allowed 18 minutes to walk approximately 900 feet to catch a bus at 1:22. Even Barrett's pace would have been beaten that time handily. She walked the two blocks daily. It would not have taken many trips before she (or anyone else) realized she was catching a bus at 1:12 not 1:22."

 

Markham never mentions 1:12 or 1:22, so all we can do is speculate as to which bus she'd regularly catch.  Regardless, no one has the right to claim as a fact which bus it was that she'd regularly catch.  I'm simply offering up the possibility that she'd catch the 1:22 bus (because that is the time that jives with the police tapes, as opposed to her catching the 1:12 bus).  Since she never mentions the time of 1:12 when referring to her bus, many conspiracy advocates are in error (even if they don't know it) to state as a fact the she was on her way to the 1:12 bus.

[Michael Kalin]

16 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Speculation:  Markham regularly catches the 1:22  bus and therefore, regularly arrives at the bus stop between 1:15 and 1:20.  This would put her at Tenth and Patton (one block from the bus stop) right at the time of the murder (1:14 to 1:15).

This overlooks Barrett's second report of 3/16/64 which states, "as she left the washateria she noticed that the time was 1:04 PM." It took less than two minutes to reach the murder scene walking at an easy pace. She saw Tippit killed at 1:06, exactly as she said.

Barrett's second report also states, "she had hoped to catch a bus at about 1:15PM," speculatively stretched to 1:20 based on nothing. At that rate a single mile would take over an hour. Eat Well customers must have been content with lukewarm coffee served at a snail's pace.

It's time to curb the lather over the 1:15 time. It's Barrett's invention, picked up by the WC out of desperate necessity, required to retard events.

Also there's no explanation as to what bearing the location of Bowley's parked car has on this, and why WC did not call him to testify. He figures prominently in the various DPD case papers. In contrast Benavides is not even listed by DPD as a witness, missing in action along with the affidavit he gave on 11/22/63.

[Bill Brown]

5 hours ago, Michael Kalin said:

This overlooks Barrett's second report of 3/16/64 which states, "as she left the washateria she noticed that the time was 1:04 PM." It took less than two minutes to reach the murder scene walking at an easy pace. She saw Tippit killed at 1:06, exactly as she said.

Barrett's second report also states, "she had hoped to catch a bus at about 1:15PM," speculatively stretched to 1:20 based on nothing. At that rate a single mile would take over an hour. Eat Well customers must have been content with lukewarm coffee served at a snail's pace.

It's time to curb the lather over the 1:15 time. It's Barrett's invention, picked up by the WC out of desperate necessity, required to retard events.

Also there's no explanation as to what bearing the location of Bowley's parked car has on this, and why WC did not call him to testify. He figures prominently in the various DPD case papers. In contrast Benavides is not even listed by DPD as a witness, missing in action along with the affidavit he gave on 11/22/63.

 

Again, to believe that Markham really did leave her apartment at 1:04 and was approaching the corner of Tenth and Patton at 1:06 "overlooks" what the police tapes (combined with the actions of multiple witnesses) tell you.

 

[Michael Kalin]

16 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Again, to believe that Markham really did leave her apartment at 1:04 and was approaching the corner of Tenth and Patton at 1:06 "overlooks" what the police tapes (combined with the actions of multiple witnesses) tell you.

No detours. We're not done with Bowley's parked car, which you said was evidence.

Evidence of what?