The problem with Tucker Carlson.

[Simon Andrew]

The problem with Tucker and his JFK spot is that he said the right thing but for the wrong reason.

His aim is to use the JFK issue to delegitimise government and create a right wing ethno-state. He has more in common with Guy Bannister than any JFK policies.

In 1963 Tucker would have gladly sat on the grassy knoll. He has more in common with the extreme right that snuffed out JFK.

There is a balance of probabilities argument that elements of the CIA and joint staffs contributed to JFK’s murder. Any planning took place off the books, we can see the bones of the conspiracy however the connective tissue died long ago.

You can’t look in the books/ records for something that took place largely off the books. You may find a few bones here or there, however the only way to have really solved this beyond a reasonable doubt was to have had Angleton and the joint chiefs thrown in Guantanamo bay in 63.

That did not happen.

I would suggest a different route. Make a better resolution of the JFK matter in the interest of the government and agencies.

Namely, argue that as we confront non democratic forces in China and elsewhere that it is a sign of strength that we can confront what went wrong in Dallas.

The CIA didn’t kill JFK, ex OSS elements within the agency abused their power. If any one person was responsible for JFKs murder it was Angleton.

Siding with Tucker is therefore the wrong strategy in my opinion.

 

[Paul Brancato]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

The problem with Tucker and his JFK spot is that he said the right thing but for the wrong reason.

His aim is to use the JFK issue to delegitimise government and create a right wing ethno-state. He has more in common with Guy Bannister than any JFK policies.

In 1963 Tucker would have gladly sat on the grassy knoll. He has more in common with the extreme right that snuffed out JFK.

There is a balance of probabilities argument that elements of the CIA and joint staffs contributed to JFK’s murder. Any planning took place off the books, we can see the bones of the conspiracy however the connective tissue died long ago.

You can’t look in the books/ records for something that took place largely off the books. You may find a few bones here or there, however the only way to have really solved this beyond a reasonable doubt was to have had Angleton and the joint chiefs thrown in Guantanamo bay in 63.

That did not happen.

I would suggest a different route. Make a better resolution of the JFK matter in the interest of the government and agencies.

Namely, argue that as we confront non democratic forces in China and elsewhere that it is a sign of strength that we can confront what went wrong in Dallas.

The CIA didn’t kill JFK, ex OSS elements within the agency abused their power. If any one person was responsible for JFKs murder it was Angleton.

Siding with Tucker is therefore the wrong strategy in my opinion.

 

Point taken, though I don’t think Tucker Carlson shares much with JFK’s actual killers. Speaking for myself I don’t side with Carlson on anything. If more liberal press outlets would carry the torch I’d be much more comfortable. Thing is, they don’t. Neither do I trust Carlson’s motives.

[James DiEugenio]

Who is siding with Tucker?

I don't watch the guy--ever!

Can I repeat that:  I do not watch Tucker Carlson ever!😷

What the practicing, holier than thou lefties on this board do not understand  is this:

It is  not Tucker Carlson!  It is what he said about the JFK case, which is unprecedented in the history of major broadcast news shows.

In that sense, it is a milestone.

And from the information I have, which is from some pretty good sources, he is not doing this for ratings or attention.  He really believes in the story and wants to keep it up with more credible guests.

Are you really saying that you would be willing to let that opportunity die on the vine over political correctness?  And you would prefer Mike Beschloss over Larry Schnapf, Jeff Morley and Oliver  Stone?

I mean wow. That is what this has come to?  PC is more important than who killed JFK? If that is the case then D'Souza won.

Edited December 19, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Charles Blackmon]

Obviously its not the message that matters its the messenger. SMH

[Simon Andrew]

Sorry, it’s the message as well.

His suggestion that he rang someone at the CIA who has seen the records and they confirm it’s a conspiracy is bunk.

It was a conspiracy, however the remaining records will if anything point to Angleton’s phoney Russia story.  That is what would have been allowed to remain - however as we know, that is full of holes and the powers that be know it. Hence it’s easier for them not to go there.

There may well be some interesting stuff on the DRE, however it’s still going to be a balance of probability argument.

Tucker’s phoney CIA buddy claim will do more harm than good and take down any valuable points with it.

As for political correctness, that is a really lazy term. 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

That is not what Morley is saying.

He is saying that from the metadata, Johannides was cleared for Special Intelligence.

What the CIA is hiding is what the SI was about.

Why are they hiding that and why are they pleading with the MSM that its not really there.

In fact, they want to say that those Johannides docs are not JFK assassination records.

Which I think is untenable.

The CIA has apparently now asked for another extension.  

I am sure you know that many of these documents are still redacted e.g. the Schlesinger proposal to JFK about reorganizing the CIA.  Who would do that except the CIA?

We will see about what is in those documents when they are all free and clear.  

And I will continue to not watch Tucker Carlson unless he has something relevant on the JFK case.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Simon Andrew]

The Johannides info is interesting however it’s still a nuanced balance of probability argument that is beyond the general populace.

There is enough information out there post ARRB for anyone to make an opinion.

There maybe some nuggets left, however the real juicy stuff has gone. 
I think Malcolm Blunt detailed a few of the main elements of missing info. 

The missing Oswald box of records mentioned by Betsie Wolf, the Japan air base interviews, the New Orleans customs records..all gone.

Had some of these been there, we may have gotten further.

 

 

 

 

[Evan Marshall]

 

i spent two separate tours in Detroit Homicide and found that the most hopeless open cases can be closed. Patience, humility, and hard work will succeed when ego and intellect fail! There are too many self-anointed experts in this field of inquiry.  Knowing the names of the shooters may not disclose who hired them. I've long been convinced that JM Wave holds the answers.

[Pat Speer]

53 minutes ago, Simon said:

The Johannides info is interesting however it’s still a nuanced balance of probability argument that is beyond the general populace.

There is enough information out there post ARRB for anyone to make an opinion.

There maybe some nuggets left, however the real juicy stuff has gone. 
I think Malcolm Blunt detailed a few of the main elements of missing info. 

The missing Oswald box of records mentioned by Betsie Wolf, the Japan air base interviews, the New Orleans customs records..all gone.

Had some of these been there, we may have gotten further.

 

 

 

 

it's Joannides, if I'm not mistaken. 

[Simon Andrew]

It could have been worse, I could think of some other choice words to call him.

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Simon- you are wrong. I had extended conversations with Tucker's producers and researchers before agreeing to go on the show. you are looking at this through a partisan lens. On this particular issue, he is an ally. 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

Jim D is right. Tucker can be a powerful ally to get the attention the of incoming chair of the House Oversight Committee. we need a hearing and he is a tool to achieve that goal.   

[Guest]

Sometimes - in desperate times - one has to use the tools that are available.

You may not like'm, but if they get the job done...

On the other hand, be careful to NEVER let it compromise your integrity !

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

Sorry, it’s the message as well.

His suggestion that he rang someone at the CIA who has seen the records and they confirm it’s a conspiracy is bunk.

It was a conspiracy, however the remaining records will if anything point to Angleton’s phoney Russia story.  That is what would have been allowed to remain - however as we know, that is full of holes and the powers that be know it. Hence it’s easier for them not to go there.

There may well be some interesting stuff on the DRE, however it’s still going to be a balance of probability argument.

Tucker’s phoney CIA buddy claim will do more harm than good and take down any valuable points with it.

As for political correctness, that is a really lazy term. 

 

 

1. I disagree with you regarding Tucker Carlson, whose anti-globalist views hardly sit well with US financial and tech elites. So what is right-wing? Flying the rainbow flag makes one cool? I do not agree with Carlson on everything, but so what?

2. How are you so sure Angleton was involved in, or a leader, in the JFKA? Jeff Morley wrote an entire book on Angleton, and did not draw that conclusion. I certainly do not rule it out, but what hard evidence do you have? Other serious researchers regard the huge Miami station (400 officers), and related hangers-on, as a likely culprit. 

I wish people place their anger where it belongs:

1. On President Joe Biden who has again suppressed the records (yes, just like Trump).

2. On CIA Director William Burns, who has again suppressed the records (just like Pompeo). 

3. On the bulk of the M$M, which has no interest in explicitly holding responsible Biden and Burns for the records suppression. 

Carlson called out by name, explicitly, former CIA Director Pompeo, as complicit, and challenged him to come on the air and prove Carlson wrong. 

Has anyone in the M$M even come close to Carlson's presentation?

No, not even close. 

(I get the impression some people are more worried with, "How does this look for the Democrats? Biden looks weak," than with "What really happened in the JFKA?")

Well, Biden does look like a senile weakling. Why suppress the records now? The CIA told him to. 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

The Johannides info is interesting however it’s still a nuanced balance of probability argument that is beyond the general populace.

There is enough information out there post ARRB for anyone to make an opinion.

There maybe some nuggets left, however the real juicy stuff has gone. 
I think Malcolm Blunt detailed a few of the main elements of missing info. 

The missing Oswald box of records mentioned by Betsie Wolf, the Japan air base interviews, the New Orleans customs records..all gone.

Had some of these been there, we may have gotten further.

 

Could be an interesting topic : The list of all the info (documents, tapes, files, photo's,....)  that has been destroyed, missing,...

The LHO file on Oswald's Military Intell could be added (I think ?)

Would make a nice database, most of us have some things that they know is missing...(or feel like it's missing)