David Atlee Phillips: Oswald never went to Mexico!

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

5 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Paul, if you are referring to Oswald writing Silvia Duran's name in his notebook while he was in Mexico City follow this link. He also wrote down the address of Cubana Airlines in MXC. He was there, absolutely no doubt. 

 https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth346819/m1/45/?q=Oswald's book

The handwriting in LHO notebook with Sylvia Duran’s information is different from the rest of the book.  LHO did not write that.  The writing style is completely different.  Look at the “dE”   “De” “de”

Whoever wrote this note is a Spanish speaking person.  It is given away when they typed “Zamora y F Marquez”  which means Zamora & F Marquez in English.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Keyvan Shahrdar

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

....claiming a document [Sylvia Duran's name written in Oswald's notes] must be fake without any supporting evidence is just not credible.

 

Plenty of evidence indicating that Oswald was not in MC has been put forth in this thread. Which means that Oswald likely wasn't there. In which case Sylvia Duran's name written in his notes must be a forgery.

The CIA faked the whole MC incident. Their plan was to make it appear that Oswald had been in MC making plans with Cuba and Russia to kill Kennedy. So it makes sense to conclude that it was the CIA who forged the Sylvia Duran name. It supported the idea that Oswald had indeed been in MC.

 

[Matt Allison]

The problem with the idea that Oswald wasn't in Mexico at all is that they then have to hide him for a week somewhere else, forge copious amounts of evidence, and get a lot of people to lie about seeing him.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just send him to Mexico? The impersonation at the embassy would still be entirely doable.

[Benjamin Cole]

8 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

The problem with the idea that Oswald wasn't in Mexico at all is that they then have to hide him for a week somewhere else, forge copious amounts of evidence, and get a lot of people to lie about seeing him.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just send him to Mexico? The impersonation at the embassy would still be entirely doable.

I have posited not only did US intel send LHO to MC, but then US intel intentionally leaked to the KGB that a US intel asset would visit the Soviet Embassy. 

Why would Kostikov, a KGB'er, delay a volleyball game on a Saturday, non-business hours to meet with an annoying wayward US tourist or troublemaker? 

But if Kostikov had been tipped that LHO was a US intel asset, then Kostikov would meet with LHO to try and figure out what he was up to. 

Sending LHO to meet with Kostikov makes sense if the CIA (or other intel agency) wanted to use LHO in a pending false flag op of some sort. 

So why was LHO also impersonated in MC?

I suspect this happened due to extreme compartmentalization inside the CIA (or other intel agency). Only a select few, or maybe just one or two guys knew of the CIA's involvement with LHO, even inside the CIA. The CIA guys down in MC did not know LHO was being run by another branch of the CIA.

So they were trying to figure out what LHO was up to, or even foil his plans to get to Cuba. 

Why no pix of LHO at the Soviet Embassy? Maybe they were destroyed along with any records connecting LHO to the CIA. 

[James DiEugenio]

6 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

The handwriting in LHO notebook with Sylvia Duran’s information is different from the rest of the book.  LHO did not write that.  The writing style is completely different.  Look at the “dE”   “De” “de”

Whoever wrote this note is a Spanish speaking person.  It is given away when they typed “Zamora y F Marquez”  which means Zamora & F Marquez in English.

This seems pretty good to me.

But secondly, what if its is there?  There are many places in Oswald's notebook that he never went to.

There are many places in my address book that i never went to.

This seems to me to be very logically strained, but that is what Roe has to do.  Since all the evidence is against him.

Edited January 5, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

4 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Whoever wrote this note is a Spanish speaking person.

Oswald allegedly did not speak very good Spanish.  

[Matt Allison]

41 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Why no pix of LHO at the Soviet Embassy? Maybe they were destroyed along with any records connecting LHO to the CIA. 

I can't help but feel the photo surveillance aspect of this is the key to everything. It is so obvious that there is something horribly wrong there and that we were not told the truth about this episode.

[James DiEugenio]

No, we actually have the photo checks today.

Negative.

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

No, we actually have the photo checks today.

Negative.

What does this mean? Expand. 

Also, when do we believe evidence and when not? 

I understand to some extent that is a judgment call. 

But if all the evidence regarding LHO was ginned up or doctored...how do we know photos of LHO were not scrubbed and records fixed? 

I am just asking. I am no expert on LHO's visit, or lack of, to MC. 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 1/4/2023 at 11:18 PM, Matt Allison said:

On 1/4/2023 at 10:33 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

Why no pix of LHO at the Soviet Embassy? Maybe they were destroyed along with any records connecting LHO to the CIA. 

I can't help but feel the photo surveillance aspect of this is the key to everything.

 

If you guys carefully follow what I'm about to explain, and not blow me off as just some other guy with a theory, you're gonna find that Mexico City is pretty easy to understand.

First, you need to erase everything you've heard about Oswald going to MC to get a transit Visa to Cuba. This is nonsense pushed by the WC to support its lone gunman theory. (Or at least not interfere with it.)  And you need to accept that Oswald wasn't even there. After you understand MC, you can put Oswald back in the picture if you want. But really, you need to forget about him for now.

Now, look at all the evidence.... especially the evidence we know the CIA created. (Actually, the CIA created all the evidence, but at first we only know some of it was.)

Most of the evidence comes in the form of false statements made by CIA assets. (Elena Garro de Paz, June Cobb, Gilberto Alvarado, maybe others.) This fake evidence shows that Oswald drove to Mexico city with a skinny red-haired negro guy and another accomplice. (Remember, this is fake evidence. So the real Oswald did not really go there. Nobody did. It's a story that the CIA wants everyone to believe actually happened.)

While in Mexico City, Oswald hung out with Cuban Consulate employee Sylvia Duran and a bunch of her friends. They had parties together, and so forth. One day Oswald and his red-haired negro friend were at the Cuban Consulate and they were paid a $6500 up-front fee to kill Kennedy. So apparently Oswald and his associate were in MC to make that arrangement. (Remember, this is just a story.)

One day, Oswald called Valeriy Kostikov at the Soviet embassy. Kostikov was  known to the CIA as head of the KGB assassinations unit.

So now we know that Russia and Cuba were both involved in the JFK assassination, and Lee Harvey Oswald was the lead guy for the American hit team. (The idea of a "hit team" is based on other evidence outside of MC. Just go with it for now.)

Now, let me summarize what I have just described. The CIA created a Fake Conspiracy in which Oswald supposedly arranged with Cuba and Russia the killing of President Kennedy. That is what the evidence shows.

Immediately after the assassinations, the FBI was supposed to discover this conspiracy. They were supposed to discover that Oswald had arranged for the killing of Kennedy, and that Cuba and Russia were his sponsors. This would serve as a pretext for war against communism.

As for the surveillance photos.... the CIA used them to implicate KGB accomplices to the Fake Conspiracy. For example, this one:

Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue said that this was the guy who was at the Cuban Consulate (not Oswald). In the FBI's investigation, they weren't supposed to think that this guy was an Oswald impersonator! They were supposed to think that he was a KGB agent dealing with Oswald, arranging for the assassination! They were supposed to think he was this guy, Nikolai Leonov:

Recall that Duran and Azcue said that the "Oswald" at the Cuban Consulate he was blond, short, and slender. Plus there was another witness who said the guy wore his hair in a pompadour. This is our man!

(BTW the above surveillance photo identified as Leonov was so sensitive that it was hidden from the Warren Commission.)

I have good evidence for everything I've said here. Though I might have made some minor mistakes because I'm writing from memory.

Now see.... wasn't that easy?

Now that you understand that the purpose of the Mexico City incident was for the FBI to discover the Fake Conspiracy and blame the Cubans and Russians, there is one other practical matter needed to make it work. There needed to be someone in Mexico City to leave evidence of Oswald being there. This might have been Oswald himself. But I believe the evidence dropping was done by other CIA assets. Of course, the "Oswald" who entered the Cuban Consulate and talked to Sylvia Duran couldn't have been Oswald. Remember, that character was a short, blond, skinny guy. (BTW, Sylvia Duran was part of the Fake Conspiracy.)

 

[David Josephs]

14 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

David,

The documents above show that the FBI was trying to find evidence of Oswald in MC as early as 11/4/63.

I was unaware of this. I had always assumed that their MC investigation was triggered by the assassination.

Do you have any idea what triggered the FBI's pre-assassination investigation of MC?

 

Thanks for the kind words Sandy... By leaving the "what actually was happening" in Mexico to others I was able to totally focus on the question of the journey and his existence there.  I found Lopez's statement about the WCR being correct to much to swallow... 

I may be a little long winded in this explanation yet I feel it was the events I describe and which we have in Evidence that triggers Hoover to CYA since the only source to date is the CIA while at the same time the FBI has its own assets in MX and in and around the Cuban Compound.

On 10/18 an asset of HOSTY at the I&NS sends him information they received from Mexico (I believe this is in reference to the Win Scott memo) and confirms the information all comes from CIA sources.  We must remember that Hoover still had a vast information network in Central and South America created by his SIS during WWII.  I have one CIA doc that requests equipment as good as the FBI's in MX because the CIA's just wasn't as good....

Anyway.. because the memo the I&NS sees was also seen by CLARK ANDERSON FBI MX who then sends that next cable to FBI HQ also referencing that the critical info comes from CIA sources...  more below...  (btw, this is all in the chapters at K&K)

 

On the 22nd of October the FBI states that CIA was wrong about "HENRY" that his name is Lee Harvey... this is the memo in which the FBI accuses Oswald of drinking and beating Marina.

On the 24th of Oct we finally get mention of Oswald in the US but only to go see if they can find him

The 1st report about  domestic Oswald after Sept 24th: Oct 31st

 

On the 4th of Nov we learn from MICHAEL PAINE via "SAC DALLAS" Hosty? 
Yet he had been to Dallas on Oct 4th, had been at the Paine's since the 5th... moved to Dallas and started work all in October yet this report is the first mention of any activity on OSWALD's part since the end of Sept.

Paine does not have him coming from or going to Mexico...  I see that because Oswald was on some kind of trip with others to Odio and the FBI was aware of said trip and the details involved in getting Oswald to the TSBD...

But as evident in that January Hoover handwritten note, Hoover would not rely on the CIA's unidentified sources telling Navy and State that Oswald was in MX...  Since the first report looking for Oswald is dated Nov 4th the search had to have begun earlier...  IMO the KAACK report is just CYA... 

That Hoover had scores of assets looking for OSWALD all thru Nov was for me his way of hedging his position against the CIA.

 

In the MASTER LIST of FBI reports the 5 reports describing how he is not found in MX are impossible to discern.

Unless you did like I did, go thru each and every report I could find in that time period ..  It was an amazing find and when the LITAMIL-9 info surfaced the picture comes into focus...

Not sure if I answered your prime question... I think Hoover was triggered very early on after the 10/10 memo on Oswald and his ingrown distrust of the CIA

[Ron Ege]

Sandy,

Re this above: "As for the surveillance photos.... the CIA used them to implicate KGB accomplices to the Fake Conspiracy. For example, this one."

To my 80-year-old eyes, the profile photo under the verbiage above looks suspiciously just like Louie Steven Witt, The Umbrella Man. 

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=louie+steven+witt+-+photographs&fr=yfp-t-s&im

If so, I'd think that would be a pretty good "find".

[David Josephs]

15 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

David,

What about the "Oswald" at the Cuban Consulate? You don't believe he was a short, slender, blond-haired man who claimed to  be Lee Harvey Oswald?

 

Sandy... 

As I have encountered in many of the "Oswald was here or there doing this or that BS" there are characters in the play that are used to represent the needed evidence....  real people who where there or doing what is attributed to Oswald, but not impersonating him per se...

The bus rides are a great example... Oswald was not on the buses the FBI puts him on  but someone did sit next to BOWEN, someone may have spoken to the Aussie girls...  someone may have even checked into that hotel....  but the evidence for such is just so suspect and inauthentic.

If Oswald was impersonated then it would have only been the morning of the 27th as related in the transcripts related to ODESSA.  This would be the only time a real person would have been in front of DURAN that morning...

This person becomes Oswald for the CIA for the rest of the stay....  I forget if it was MANN or ANDERSON or SCOTT but it was said that other than the transcripts of the calls there was no authenticated evidence that Oswald was in Mexico.

FBI report 11/22 below... still looking for Oswald per the 5 reports... only the CIA says he was there, and please notice how hard the CIA tries to drop mention of the 27th...  all the CI begins 9/28

 

 

[David Josephs]

8 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

The problem with the idea that Oswald wasn't in Mexico at all is that they then have to hide him for a week somewhere else, forge copious amounts of evidence, and get a lot of people to lie about seeing him.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just send him to Mexico? The impersonation at the embassy would still be entirely doable.

Matt...  he didn't hide at all... that was the problem, the FBI was fully aware of where he was and what he was doing... and as I see it, it was for the FBI that Oswald was traveling with those 2 men to Odio then to TX

There is strong evidence which puts our Oswald at the shooting range the weekend of Sept 28th, in Dallas where he ultimately winds up at the YMCA by the end of the week.  Sadly I can't say where he was exactly during that first week of October but we are sure of his location from October 4th.

There was no purpose for Oswald to have gone to MX to acquire the means to get to Russia (Cuba was off limits), he already had a passport good for travel to the locations he wanted to go and for the time period he wanted to leave "Oct-Dec 1963"

Something was going on in MX (which Bill Simpich and others delve into quite well) and the name OSWALD was used.  

We must remember who controlled the evidence and the process.. and accept that it took decades to uncover this stuff despite the first generation critics having strong similar feelings.

[Matt Allison]

44 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

There was no purpose for Oswald to have gone to MX to acquire the means to get to Russia

I don't think anyone believes Oswald went to Mexico in order to return to Russia. He expressed convincing disdain for the USSR; it appears any attempt to go to Russia was a ruse to get to Cuba.