Allen Dulles and his Nazi Pals in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

You don't sound amused.

 

Not in the least. You're emotionally charged. You've made a series of allegations and innuendo. You're simply being held accountable, and asked to  defend you accusations. I'm not sure what you've chosen to be so upset about, because you're not saying.

But since  you took a offense at something. I'm sorry.

Now

But of course, the U.S. is the world major super power. Why would the U.S.  do such a thing and take such a chance of being exposed betraying their allies in a time period, of agreed upon  mutual need? Because of their relentless quest  for "Full Spectrum Dominance"?

And they have total certainty they would get away with it, because after all they got away with the JFKA?

 

It seems a bit of a token apology for the unnecessary sarcastic, personal commentary, but I am a good guy, and I accept your apology. I just assumed you were having a bad day or that there was some underlying issue, which is usually the case with people lashing out. You'll just have to take my word for it that I was amused. Or are you calling me a xxxx?
 

In answer to your question in bold; you have agreed with me that the US is the world's major super-power. Who exactly does the US answer to? Nobody! Certainly not the self-serving politicians of the EU block. The fundamental gap in your rationale is that after a lifetime of being duped and deceived by politicians, you still believe they are honourable and care about the electorate. There may be some good ones here and there, but they don't rule countries, and they certainly don't sit in the hierarchy of the EU. What is the impact of the pipeline being blown up on the wealthy bureaucrats of the EU? It only hurts the poor and middle classes. 

You've just watched 60 years or more of the US government or its security apparatus commit false flag attacks, conduct sabotage, coups, funded revolutions and all manner of ills, and I would struggle to name one event that was understood or known in real-time for what it was. You waited sometimes decades to understand the Mosadeq situation, that the Bay or Tonkin was fake, or that America was experimenting on its citizens, etc etc. It's always a 'fait accompli' and almost nobody is ever held to account regarding foreign policy for clandestine work. And you're really surprised that the US might bomb a Russian pipeline and think they could get away with it? I'll be honest; I didn't think the US had done it with Norway; I assumed it was Britain that had. I know special forces soldiers (socially) and have spent many hours with one in particular. Their base is next to my home town. They are certainly trained in sabotage and are very good at aquatic work. They do go over to San Diego once a year for joint exercises with your guys. It could have been a joint thing. Why wouldn't they think they could get away with it? Do you know how closely Europe's militaries work with each other now? Do you think anyone is going to believe Russia? Or point the finger at the US? It seems like you don't believe the USA did it; even with its track record, you are giving the benefit of the doubt. I'd love to hear a compelling case as to why Russia bombed its own pipeline, and I did read somewhere last week that they are getting estimates quietly for its repair. Apparently, it's going to cost upwards of £500,000,000. Someone must have done a great job on it with those explosives. IMO I think it's not that you can't understand this logic; it's just that you want your own country to be innocent. Is it just lucky that America can now sell Europe its energy resources? What did Biden say about the pipeline originally before the event? Can anyone remind me?

I think your final sentence with a question mark is either miswritten or further sarcasm. You can do better than this, Kirk. 







 

[Guest]

“In [totalitarianism] shortages of material goods, even of necessities, were not a drawback but a great advantage for the rulers. These shortages were not accidental to the terror, but one of its most powerful instruments.“

Thomas Dalrymple 

[Guest]

“On September 30, four days after the Nord Stream attack, Putin was explicit at the Kremlin signing of the accession treaties which incorporated Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporozhye as new territories of the Russian federation. “The Anglo-Saxons,” Putin said, “believe sanctions are no longer enough and now they have turned to subversion. It seems incredible but it is a fact – by causing explosions on Nord Stream’s international gas pipelines passing along the bottom of the Baltic Sea, they have actually embarked on the destruction of Europe’s entire energy infrastructure. It is clear to everyone who stands to gain. Those who benefit are responsible, of course.”  

“Such self-confidence is a direct product not only of the notorious concept of exceptionalism – although it never ceases to amaze – but also of the real ‘information hunger’ in the West. The truth has been drowned in an ocean of myths, illusions and fakes, using extremely aggressive propaganda, lying like Goebbels. The more unbelievable the lie, the quicker people will believe it – that is how they operate, according to this principle.”

[Kirk Gallaway]

That was quite inflammatory,but sloppy Chris. You've neglected giving your sources again, other than your quote of Putin..

 

Why did this take  8 posts and is so now long winded?

You don't know all about my thinking on this. But I said  at the beginning "I don't necessarily believe the story because it comes from Hersch". But I also said if the U.S. unilaterally bombed the pipeline leaving Europe unsuspectingly without fuel.  It is a hostile act. So if you had listened, you would have known  your repeated projection on me that I would be so  astonished if the U.S. was involved had no basis at all. And  that's half your post!

i made it so easy for you Chris. So you could have answered by simply saying "Yes". The U.S. (and maybe in your mind the U.K.) are unilaterally attacking the Europe's fuel supply, and the leaders of Europe are so cowed, they will accept it and put up and shut up and even risk being found out by their constituents. Which you're confident couldn't happen at all.

So complete is the "Full Spectrum Dominance" of the U.S. over Europe..

Was that so hard?

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

That was quite inflammatory,but sloppy Chris. You've neglected giving your sources again, other than your quote of Putin..

 

Why did this take  8 posts and is so now long winded?

You don't know all about my thinking on this. But I said  at the beginning "I don't necessarily believe the story because it comes from Hersch". But I also said if the U.S. unilaterally bombed the pipeline leaving Europe unsuspectingly without fuel.  It is a hostile act. So if you had listened, you would have known  your repeated projection on me that I would be so  astonished if the U.S. was involved had no basis at all. And  that's half your post!

i made it so easy for you Chris. So you could have answered by simply saying "Yes". The U.S. (and maybe in your mind the U.K.) are unilaterally attacking the Europe's fuel supply, and the leaders of Europe are so cowed, they will accept it and put up and shut up and even risk being found out by their constituents. Which you're confident couldn't happen at all.

So complete is the "Full Spectrum Dominance" of the U.S. over Europe..

Was that so hard?

 

 

Seems like you are struggling a bit today, Kirk. What’s funny is; I write a post that is too short and you complain. I write one that is too long, and you complain. I post links to support my opinions and you complain I am just posting links of others opinions. I don’t post links and you complain that I haven’t posted sources. 
Somebody asks you something that you can’t or don’t want to answer, you disappear under a rock. I am not the only one who picks up on this.  

[W. Niederhut]

Hail, Brittania... 🤓

Apparently, our British government allies don't share the opinions of Chris Barnard and Paul Rigby about Putin's brutal, lawless invasion of Ukraine.  Britain is ratcheting up sanctions against the Kremlin.

I was especially surprised to read Chris's opinion (above) that the Nordstream pipeline was sabotaged to benefit non-Russian corporate interests-- rather than as an act of military strategy to de-fund Putin's war machine.

Does anyone else really believe that?

Putin Is Angry: Ukraine Sanctions Are Hitting the Russian Military Hard - 19FortyFive

February 15, 2023

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Hail, Brittania... 🤓

Apparently, our British government allies don't share the opinions of Chris Barnard and Paul Rigby about Putin's brutal, lawless invasion of Ukraine.  Britain is ratcheting up sanctions against the Kremlin.

I was especially surprised to read Chris's opinion (above) that the Nordstream pipeline was sabotaged to benefit non-Russian corporate interests-- rather than as an act of military strategy to de-fund Putin's war machine.

Does anyone else really believe that?

Putin Is Angry: Ukraine Sanctions Are Hitting the Russian Military Hard - 19FortyFive

February 15, 2023

 

I think your position on this bombing of the pipeline puts you more in touch with the reality than some of contemporaries, @W. Niederhut. I am sort of surprised that you condone international terrorism and sabotage. Each to their own. You always struck me as a guy against that kind of foreign policy. I guess you’ll justify anything in the cause of the ‘greater good’. Although, I would point out that the ‘greater good’ is what walked Germany, The Soviet Union & Italy into the disasters of the twentieth century. It might be worth a moment of caution and reflection. 

No, I don’t think your British government allies do share exactly your opinion. 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/01/14/india-offers-russian-oil-back-door-britain/

Is that helping the Ukrainian’s, Britain buying Russian oil via an intermediary?

Regarding your link. Is the Russian military struggling, and on its last legs again? Or, are they taking over the whole of Europe like Hitler in WW2? I never know which it is. 🙂

This is an open question to all; would any of you like peace between Ukraine and Russia and the fighting to stop?
If so, what concessions would you make to stop the bloodshed and destruction? 

Thanks
 

 

[Paul Rigby]

 

What does the Nord Stream pipeline gas leak mean for the environment?

 

DW News

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Vm0WpzIsq0&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE

Edited February 15, 2023 by Paul Rigby
Indigestion

[Paul Rigby]

NORD STREAM UPDATE: In lengthy interview with the Berliner Zeitung, Seymour Hersh offers more intriguing details about his source's account of the attack

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/nord-stream-update-in-lengthy-interview

America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline. The mainstream German press have responded with uniform scepticism. Most reports followed the example of the wire services, in leading with the blanket denials of American officials and noting that the story was well-received in Moscow. A few operations, like the state media outlet Tagesschau, attempted a more comprehensive debunking, in this case by asking experts to pick holes in the details of Hersh’s story – with less than impressive results. The other major tactic has been to attack Hersh’s credibility, along similar lines as the American press. The latest headline here is that Bob Woodward thinks Hersh’s story is bunk, and because Woodward is also a famous American journalist, that means checkmate for Hersh, or something.

The biggest development is an interview that Hersh gave to the Berliner Zeitung. It was published yesterday and contains many new details. For example, Hersh tells his interviewer that the plan was to detonate “eight bombs … near the island of Bornholm in the Baltic sea,” of which only “six…went off.” This is the first confirmation we’ve had anywhere of an obvious point, namely that the operation wasn’t fully successful, and that this is the only reason that Pipe B of Nord Stream 2 escaped intact. He’s also more explicit on the involvement of Denmark and Sweden, saying “I was told that they did what they did [to facilitate the planting of explosives] and they knew what they were doing and they understood what was going on, but maybe nobody ever said ‘yes.’”

Hersh also provides more operational detail:

[T]there was a decompression chamber, and we used a Norwegian submarine hunter. Only two divers were used for the four pipelines. One problem was how to deal with Baltic Sea surveillance. The Baltic is monitored very thoroughly, there’s a lot of freely available data, so we took care of that, there were three or four different people for that. And what was done then is very simple. For 21 years, our Sixth Fleet … has been conducting [BALTOPS] … [F]or the first time in history, the NATO exercise in the Baltic had a new programme. It was to be a twelve-day exercise to drop and detect mines. A number of nations sent out mine teams, one group dropped a mine and another mine team went out to find it and blow it up.

So there was this period of time when things were exploding, and during that time the deep-sea divers could operate and attach the mines to the pipelines. The two pipelines run about a mile apart, they’re a little buried under the silt on the seabed, but they’re not difficult to get to, and the divers had practised it. It only took a couple of hours to place the bombs …

[T]hey did it towards the end of the exercise. But at the last minute, the White House got nervous. The president said he was afraid to go ahead. He changed his mind and gave new orders, so they had the ability to detonate the bombs remotely at any time. You do it with normal sonar, a Raytheon product by the way, you fly over the spot and drop a cylinder. It sends a low-frequency signal, you could say it sounds like a flute, you can set different frequencies.

The fear, however, was that the bombs wouldn’t work if they stayed in the water too long. This is actually what happened with two of the bombs. So there was concern within the group about finding the right way, and we actually had to turn to other intelligence agencies, which I’ve deliberately not written about.

There were still active explosives on the sea bed as the pipes were leaking their gas, which explains why partially complicit Denmark and Sweden closed the whole area and denied all access, until they themselves had removed everything.

Hersh also clarifies further the chronology of Biden’s order, and appears to suggest that at least some of those involved believed they were planting explosives only as part of a negotiating tactic, and that they’d never be used. (How this is to be harmonised with Hersh’s insistence that the sonar trigger was a last-minute plan, I can’t imagine):

Joe Biden decided not to blow them up back in June, it was five months into the war. But in September he ordered it done. The operational staff, the people who do “kinetic” things for the United States, they do what the president says, and they initially thought this was a useful weapon he could use in negotiations. But at some point, after the Russians invaded and then when the operation was completed, the whole thing became increasingly repugnant to the people who were doing it. These were people who worked in top positions in the intelligence services and were well trained. They turned against the project, they thought it was crazy.

Shortly after the attack, after they had done what they were ordered to do, there was a lot of anger about the operation and repudiation among those involved. That’s one of the reasons I learned so much. And I’ll tell you something else. The people in America and Europe who build pipelines know what happened. I’ll tell you something important. The people who own companies that build pipelines all know the story. I didn’t get the story from them, but I quickly learned that they know.

Elsewhere, Hersh says that the discontent with Biden’s attack is specifically within the CIA, where participants in the operation are “appalled that Biden decided to expose Europe to the cold in order to further a war he will not win.”

As I said before, it seems obvious that what happened to Nord Stream is an open secret in security and government circles, and that the truth simply can’t be acknowledged, because nobody in the German government wants to live with the political consequences. The only really interesting detail that all the debunkings have in common, is their refusal to address what I see as the central problem with Hersh’s story. As I said before, he says divers planted explosives at a point where the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines run just one mile apart from each other. This only describes the location of the second cluster of explosions on 26 September. The first explosion hit Pipe A of Nord Stream 2 well to the south, at a point where the two pipelines are perhaps 15 km apart.

This detail appears particularly important, in light of flight data which seems to confirm Hersh’s account that a Norwegian P8 dropped a sonar buoy into the Baltic northeast of Bornholm sometime around 4am on the morning of 26 September. Crucially, this data has the P8 arriving too late to trigger the first Nord Stream 2 explosion, which happened at 2:03 am local time. It looks for all the world like somebody organised two totally separate operations, involving two separately triggered pipeline attacks, and that Hersh’s source only knows about one of them.

[Paul Rigby]

A move that may portend another front opening in the war against Bidenescu the terrorist:

Vera Mikhailenko has been appointed head of the US-created Anti-Corruption Court (SACC) of Ukraine. The significance? The same Mikhailenko, in her capacity as a judge working for SACC, had the temerity to open an investigation into Nikolai Zlochevsky, the head of Burisma, for which foolishness she was sacked and penalised.

Will Mikhailenko once again venture into Hunter Biden land?

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I think your position on this bombing of the pipeline puts you more in touch with the reality than some of contemporaries, @W. Niederhut. I am sort of surprised that you condone international terrorism and sabotage.
 

 

Chris,

    Using your logic, do you and Paul Rigby consider the Allied bombing of the Ploesti oil fields during WWII to be an act of "terrorism?"

    Also, how many people were killed in the recent "terrorist" demolition of the Nordstream pipeline?

     Finally, are you and Paul Rigby troubled by Putin's "terrorist" bombings of residential apartment buildings, railroad stations, and playgrounds in Ukraine?

[Matthew Koch]

2 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I think your position on this bombing of the pipeline puts you more in touch with the reality than some of contemporaries, @W. Niederhut. I am sort of surprised that you condone international terrorism and sabotage. Each to their own. You always struck me as a guy against that kind of foreign policy. I guess you’ll justify anything in the cause of the ‘greater good’. Although, I would point out that the ‘greater good’ is what walked Germany, The Soviet Union & Italy into the disasters of the twentieth century. It might be worth a moment of caution and reflection. 

No, I don’t think your British government allies do share exactly your opinion. 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/01/14/india-offers-russian-oil-back-door-britain/

Is that helping the Ukrainian’s, Britain buying Russian oil via an intermediary?

Regarding your link. Is the Russian military struggling, and on its last legs again? Or, are they taking over the whole of Europe like Hitler in WW2? I never know which it is. 🙂

This is an open question to all; would any of you like peace between Ukraine and Russia and the fighting to stop?
If so, what concessions would you make to stop the bloodshed and destruction? 

Thanks
 

Chris, seems like you are caught in the same circular logic arguing that I got sick of with Niederhut. Did you know that the Project for a New American Century PNAC (Named after a famous quote by Time Life Owner and Skull and Bonesman Henry Luce, about the 1900's being the American Century) authored a famous document linked to 911, calling for America to defend it's strategic resources abroad. In the document it pontificated that a New "Pearl Harbor" terrorist event could be used as a pretext for building America's forces and using that for "Liberal Intervention" world wide. George W. Bush was elected and he brought alot of these people into the government who were in positions of power to allow/make 911 happen and use Neo Liberal intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq. One of the co founders of this group and new Neo Liberal approach to intervention is Neo Con Robert Kagan, Robert Kagan's wife is Victoria "F the EU" Nuland who was part of putting in the new government after the sniper false flag coup de tat in Kiev. I have posted a bunch of videos of her calling for and celebrating the "False Flag"controlled demolition terrorist attack on the Nord Steam line. Interesting coincidence and connections if you ask me. You know what else is interesting.. the World Trade Center was part of the Centro Mondiale Commericale World Trade Centers and has direct connections to members of the board of Permindex who also connect to Clay Shaw. We will see this group of individuals working with Otto Skorzeny who was QJ/WIN via ZR/RIFLE executive action program. This is the Nomenclature of a world assassination cabal that has connections to NATO leadership/Operation Gladio and the former Axis of National Socialist Germany, Vichy France, and Wall Street Bankers and Oilmen and P2 Lodge. 

So I don't think you have to waste more time with Willam, you've got him defending the same people he wants brought to justice for 911 (Neo Cons) You've won the debate because he can't understand the big picture because anecdotal evidence in his personal life is clouding his  judgement to the point of accusing "Fascist wanna be dictator" Donald Trump of colluding with secret Stalin Communist Vladimir Putin in stealing the 2016 election in return for helping Putin's KBG take over of Europe. Lol 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

26 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

    Using your logic, do you and Paul Rigby consider the Allied bombing of the Ploesti oil fields during WWII to be an act of "terrorism?"

    Also, how many people were killed in the recent "terrorist" demolition of the Nordstream pipeline?

     Finally, are you and Paul Rigby troubled by Putin's "terrorist" bombings of residential apartment buildings, railroad stations, and playgrounds in Ukraine?

Chris,

     I'm re-posting my question, because it was immediately leap-frogged by Mathew Koch's deflective non sequitur (and ad hominem slur) about 9/11 and the Project for a New American Century.

      I have noticed that Mathew Koch frequently posts deflective non sequiturs immediately after my posts on this forum, usually in the form of YouTube videos.  It's a form of t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g -- to disrupt dialogues.

     The subject under discussion, at present, is the demolition of the Nordstream pipeline in the context of the U.S. and NATO's response to Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

     My question about Ploesti has to do with the definition of "terrorism" vs. strategic military sabotage in time of war.

     9/11 and the Project for a New America Century is a very important subject, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this debate.

[Paul Brancato]

13 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

     I'm re-posting my question, because it was immediately leap-frogged by Mathew Koch's deflective non sequitur (and ad hominem slur) about 9/11 and the Project for a New American Century.

      I have noticed that Mathew Koch frequently posts deflective non sequiturs immediately after my posts on this forum, usually in the form of YouTube videos.  It's a form of t-r-o-l-l-i-n-g -- to disrupt dialogues.

     The subject under discussion, at present, is the demolition of the Nordstream pipeline in the context of the U.S. and NATO's response to Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

     My question about Ploesti has to do with the definition of "terrorism" vs. strategic military sabotage in time of war.

     9/11 and the Project for a New America Century is a very important subject, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this debate.

It’s a good question W. I guess that means we are at war with Russia. Sorry if I didn’t read every word of Hersh or necessarily believe everything he or any news source says in the fog of war, but did he say the US and NATO together blew up the pipeline? You know, during WW2 we were kind of selective with what we bombed. We didn’t bomb railway lines leading to concentration camps, and I’ve read that we didn’t bomb Standard Oil operations either. This act of sabotage was surely a double edged sword. Did it hurt Russia as much as it hurt European citizens? It surely benefitted western oil and gas companies, but was that part of the equation? 
The problem with war is the FOG. The Propaganda. I won’t read any reports, because I don’t know how much truth they contain. But I am absolutely sure of one thing - this war was preventable. This is not Hitler marching through Europe. I wish we cared more about how we got here. It is very possible to square the circle in this case. Putin sucks at home and abroad, and so does NATO and US Empire. I won’t condone Putin, or whitewash Biden. Way too simplistic. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Paul Brancato

[John Cotter]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

John,

     Huh?  There I go again?

     So now you have taken to imitating Mathew Koch, by quoting Ronald Reagan's 1980 one-liner? 

     I "misrepresented what I said?"  Sure thing.

    You are gallantly "exposing my constant transgressions?"  How noble.

     I nominate your latest post for the Education Forum Ad-Hominem-Projection-of-the-Year Award.

     As for "gaslighting," it's the diametric opposite of my modus operandi in communicating with people.  Aside from the MAGA contingent and the Putin war crime deniers around here, I think most forum members will vouch for that.

     My focus has always been on discerning and telling the truth about history and current events-- including truths that some people, obviously, don't want to hear.

     

    

     

     

     

 

William,

Contrary to what you claim, your focus is usually on spamming the thread with diversionary verbiage.

For example, your comments about the outrageous terrorist act of the US and its vassal states in blowing up the Nord Stream gas pipeline are either disingenuous or based on ignorance.

I’ve already explained that the fuel poverty caused by this terrorist act will probably result in the premature deaths of tens of thousands of civilians in Europe.

More generally, the damage it causes to the European economy will probably result in the premature deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians. Did you not know that poverty kills?

You seem to be of a similar bent to the “Fcuk the EU” and Ukraine coup organiser,Victoria Nuland, the Banshee of the Swamp.

The pathologically jingoistic mentality in question here is what JFK decried in his American University speech on 10th June 1963 when he said, “Let us examine our attitude toward the Soviet Union”.

The one-eyed Manichean mentality I refer to is, by definition, incapable of such self-examination.

Edited February 16, 2023 by John Cotter