Allen Dulles and his Nazi Pals in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Guest]

On 2/11/2023 at 12:02 AM, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

   Thanks for tossing out another one of your peculiar, British word salads.

    We Americans saved you Brits when the Yahtzees were launching V-2 rockets at your cities, and now you think we're the bad guys for helping Ukraine while Putin is launching rockets at their cities, eh?

   Strange logic.

  

I have to be honest, I wasn’t expecting a comprehensive rebuttal from you, William, you’d been clutching at staws for a while. At least this post is less emotional than your last one. 🙂

[Paul Brancato]

Many of you posting on a site dedicated to JFK seem completely ignorant of what he stood for. If your my age you remember Krushchev banging his shoe at the UN, you remember air raid drills and hiding under our tables at school. America hated the Soviets, the Evil Empire. Krushchev was vilified. Castro too. Remember Hungary? 
I’ll ask one more time: Do you agree with Allen Dulles and the Joint Chiefs that JFK reaching out to Nikita and Fidel was treasonous? What  would you have done when your leader tried to find common ground with leaders that in their world view were sworn enemies? JFK’s idea was that the Cold War should end, that War in a nuclear age was a path to Armageddon. We are in a hot war now, except it isn’t Americans who are dying, it’s Ukrainians and Russians. What is the end game? Do you think we should escalate? Should we send in our Air Force? Move warships into the Black Sea? What’s your strategy going forward? 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Paul Brancato

[John Cotter]

5 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."

- Bertrand Russell

So says Matt reporting what a clever man said.

[John Cotter]

3 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Many of you posting on a site dedicated to JFK seem completely ignorant of what he stood for. If your my age you remember Krushchev banging his shoe at the UN, you remember air raid drills and hiding under our tables at school. America hated the Soviets, the Evil Empire. Krushchev was vilified. Castro too. Remember Hungary? 
I’ll ask one more time: Do you agree with Allen Dulles and the Joint Chiefs that JFK reaching out to Nikita and Fidel was treasonous? What  would you have done when your leader tried to find common ground with leaders that in their world view were sworn enemies? JFK’s idea was that the Cold War should end, that War in a nuclear age was a path to Armageddon. We are in a hot war now, except it isn’t Americans who are dying, it’s Ukrainians and Russians. What is the end game? Do you think we should escalate? Should we send in our Air Force? Move warships into the Black Sea? What’s your strategy going forward? 

Well said, Paul.

It's clear that the present day anti-Russian jingoists would have vilified JFK as "shilling" for Khrushchev and the like if there such things as internet forums back then.

[Matthew Koch]

6 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I have to be honest, I wasn’t expecting a comprehensive rebuttal from you, William, you’d been clutching at staws for a while. At least this post is less emotional than your last one. 🙂

Reminds me of this: 

 

[Guest]

Hi

Edited February 15, 2023 by Lance Payette

[W. Niederhut]

10 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

I have to be honest, I wasn’t expecting a comprehensive rebuttal from you, William, you’d been clutching at staws for a while. At least this post is less emotional than your last one. 🙂

Chris,

     I posted a comprehensive rebuttal (above, in red letters) of your confused blather about Nordstream and our U.S./NATO response to Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine.

     Your response to my rebuttal was another confused word salad, replete with your usual inaccurate, puerile, ad hominem slurs.

    It can't be said any more clearly than I said it, (and I know a great deal more about Putin and the modern Russian Federation than you do, based partly on my involvement in the Russian Orthodox Church during the past quarter century.)

    Did you ever read Catherine Belton's book, Putin's People, as I advised?

    You and the other Putin apologists on the forum really need to study that book.

Edited February 11, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Matthew Koch]

On 2/11/2023 at 10:31 AM, Lance Payette said:

I'll turn the tables on you: What does THIS TOPIC have to do with the JFKA?

In recent threads, David Josephs, Sandy Larson and Pat Speer all emphasized the requirement for using a legitimate photograph and posting a biography. Gerry Down was made to feel like an absolute imposter for using his avatar from another forum, and I was admonished to post a biography (which I did).

Looking at Chris's posts and apparent absence of a biography and putting on my W. Niederhut hat for a moment - yeah, I might be a little suspicious if I were Cognitive Infiltrator-inclined.

Earlier in the thread I mentioned that Skorzeny was connected with the Fascists from Ukraine, and he is QJ/WIN. QJ/WIN is connected with ZR/RIFLE the program that that William Harvey ran with Staff D and was used as "Executive Action" toward Foreign Leaders. This network and program are believed to have been utilized in the JFK assassination. Leaving one to ask with the current day new (N)azi Azoz battalion if a new gladio like strategy is being used against Russia. 

Personally I find the second part of your post to be very problematic. Seems that Chris's zinger caused you to stalk his profile looking for something to get him in trouble about or doxed. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Did you ever read Catherine Belton's book, Putin's People, as I advised?

    You and the other Putin apologists on the forum really need to study that book.

Imagine my surprise when you couldn’t stick to your own word again, William. Your idea of a ‘comprehensive rebuttal’ is in reality a chocolate teapot. The best you have is a book by a Washington Post journalist, who got sued successfully for libel over what she wrote in the said book.  You confirm my criticism of you that WaPo is one of your trusted sources of information. 🙈 

@Paul Brancato has actually asked some very important questions in the past few days, constructive ones. Why don’t you make yourself useful and have a go at answering them? 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

45 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

     I posted a comprehensive rebuttal (above, in red letters) of your confused blather about Nordstream and our U.S./NATO response to Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine.

     Your response to my rebuttal was another confused word salad, replete with your usual inaccurate, puerile, ad hominem slurs.

    It can't be said any more clearly than I said it, (and I know a great deal more about Putin and the modern Russian Federation than you do, based partly on my involvement in the Russian Orthodox Church during the past quarter century.)

    Did you ever read Catherine Belton's book, Putin's People, as I advised?

    You and the other Putin apologists on the forum really need to study that book.

Addendum:  As for the JFK/Russia subject, I agree with Maestro Brancato about JFK's admirable efforts to de-escalate the Cold War, but let's recall that JFK also stood up to Russian bullying in the cases of Berlin and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[Paul Rigby]

46 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

    Did you ever read Catherine Belton's book, Putin's People, as I advised?

I wouldn't bother, it's boilerplate Deep State pap albeit with the rare distinction of having been tested - and found wanting - in court. 

Below, a selection of John Helmer’s (Dances with Bears website) exposes of Catherine Belton as Deep State transmission belt:

Thursday, April 16th, 2020: http://johnhelmer.net/the-gospel-version-of-russia-catherine-belton-and-sergei-pugachev-preach-a-sermon-for-rupert-murdoch-to-sell-and-for-luke-harding-to-proselytise/

Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/reuters-russia-lies-put-to-truth-test-in-uk-high-court-rupert-murdoch-sergei-pugachev-catherine-belton-charged-by-roman-abramovich/

Wednesday, July 28th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/catherine-belton-loses-first-truth-test-rupert-murdoch-publisher-to-retract-apologise-reuters-pretends-it-isnt-so/

Monday, October 4th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/beltons-people-fbi-investigation-casts-new-shadow-over-catherine-beltons-book-in-court/

Investigations by US government officials, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), of Christopher Steele’s (lead image, right) Russiagate dossier have identified Catherine Belton (left) as one of the targets for his fabrications. Belton was herself investigated as one of the journalists Steele recruited to plant his allegations of Russian interference days before the 2016 presidential election.

In her book Putin’s People, Belton repeats many of Steele’s allegations but she does not cite him or his consulting company Orbis as her source. Belton adds at the end of the book: “I’ll always be grateful to Chris [Steele] for his moral support.” After Belton’s book appeared in April 2020, Steele admitted to lawyers engaged in a London High Court lawsuit against him that Belton is “a friend, yes, she’s a friend”.

Fresh evidence revealed in the indictment issued by the US Department of Justice on September 16, shows that the FBI has concluded Steele was lying when he and  his American accomplices  planted false allegations of Russian election interference through several named intermediaries, including a Russian bank and Russian émigrés in the US,. The New York Times and The Atlantic were identified in last month’s US court papers as willing outlets for the fabrications. Earlier litigation by the Alfa Bank group in the US has identified five New York Times reporters and David Corn of Mother Jones as collaborators in the scheme.

Belton’s name, tagged with the note “London meeting”, has also surfaced in meeting notes taken at the State Department on October 11, 2016, when Steele met with Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland and a deputy, Kathleen Kavalec.  Kavalec’s meeting notes, partially declassified, reveal that Steele’s allegations of Russian election interference followed a briefing of the same allegations at the FBI a month earlier, on September 19, 2016,  by Michael Sussmann, a lawyer working in secret for the Democratic National Committee (DNC).  Sussmann is now charged with lying then to the FBI.

The Justice Department’s indictment says Sussmann was one of the plotters with Steele and others, including journalists, university academics, and IT experts in publishing false stories of Russian election interference; their plot aimed at hurting the Republican candidate, Donald Trump, by making it appear he was in cahoots with the Kremlin to hurt the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton.

“In or about late October 2016 – approximately one week before the 2016 U.S. Presidential election – multiple media outlets reported that U.S. government authorities had received and were investigating allegations concerning a purported secret channel of communications between the Trump Organization, owned by Donald J. Trump, and a particular Russian bank (‘Russian Bank-I’).”

The Kavalec notebook also reveals that Steele claimed there were “3 distinct channels” for this Russian operation “run by Kremlin, not FSB, Ivanov, Peskov, Putin.”  In addition to accusing Alfa Bank as the first channel “Alfa-Trump-Kremlin-comms”, Steele told Nuland that Serge Millian, a Russian émigré businessman in the US, was the second; Carter Page, a wannabe Trump campaign adviser, was the third.

In the sequence of Kavalec’s notes. Steele told Nuland there were “hackers out of R[ussia] – acting in US – [payments out of the state] pension fund Miami consulate payments – implants. Operations Paige [sic], Millian (émigrés?), Manafort.”  Steele then mentioned the London meeting with Belton whom he identified as “FT [Financial Times]”. 

Reporting by Belton in the Financial Times followed days after her meeting was mentioned by Steele to Nuland.  In  Belton’s published report, she named Serge Millian as the channel Steele had alleged at State and the FBI. “Now, “ Belton claimed on November 1, one week before Election Day,  “the US administration has formally accused Russia of attempting to interfere in the US electoral process through the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s email servers, Mr Millian’s activities — and his ties to the Republican presidential nominee — are coming under increasing scrutiny.” Belton did not identify her sources for her allegations against Millian. She implied, however, that they were US intelligence agents and the FBI.  “Mr Millian came on to the FBI’s radar”, Belton reported. “The FBI probe was part of a wake-up call for US intelligence over suspicions that Russia was activating networks long thought defunct after the end of the cold war.”

Millian avoided Belton for an interview and she reported. “He declined repeated requests for an interview and left the US for Asia on a business trip in early October.” Two weeks before, Steele had told Nuland, according to Kavalec’s transcript, Millian was “now in China.”

According to Belton, Millian had been a real estate broker for Trump, selling Trump organisation properties to Russians. Steele had told Nuland “real estate entities used for massive set of purchases by Russians. Set up espionage network in FL[orida] – to buy a lot of properties for POTUS [Trump’s] businesses through a R[ussian] brokage. 100’s of real estate transactions.”

Two months ago, on July 28, Belton was exposed as a xxxx and fabricator of her source material by her British publisher, HarperCollins.  Settling the High Court case brought against them both by Mikhail Fridman and Pyotr Aven of Alfa Bank, the publisher said there was “no significant evidence” for Belton’s allegations of KGB connections in the early careers of Fridman and Aven; and that she had failed to check her claims with Fridman and Aven before publishing them. The publisher agreed to delete Belton’s allegations from the book.

The terms of that settlement, and the ongoing High Court case in London, have stopped Macmillan, the US publisher of the book, from issuing the paperback edition, according to industry sources.

Once Belton’s allegations against the Alfa Bank group were abandoned by HarperCollins, lawyers for the remaining plaintiffs – Roman Abramovich, Rosneft and Shalva Chigirinsky – are now focusing on Belton’s acknowledged dependence on Steele – and on the fabrications Steele got Belton to print before the US election.

Tuesday, October 19th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/computer-analysis-reveals-catherine-beltons-book-has-another-author/

Wednesday, November 24th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/british-high-court-judge-rules-against-catherine-belton-harpercollins-in-double-barreled-blast/

[Matt Allison]

14 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

As for the JFK/Russia subject, I agree with Maestro Brancato about JFK's admirable efforts to de-escalate the Cold War, but let's recall that JFK also stood up to Russian bullying in the cases of Berlin and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I'm sure everyone here agrees with JFK's efforts of 60 years ago.

The problem is that it has absolutely zero to do with the current-day targeted genocide against innocent children and civilians being committed by Putin.

 

[W. Niederhut]

Paul Rigby,

     Thanks for sharing your bizarre KGB "review" of Catherine Belton's well-documented history of Putin's FSB-aligned oligarchy since 2000-- Putin's People.  Do you really not know that your hero, John Helmer, is a KGB-affiliated propagandist in Moscow?

https://www.sfgate.com/books/article/Another-Ex-KGB-Spy-Spills-the-Beans-Yuri-B-3041643.php

     Also, thanks for sharing your bizarre opinion that Russia didn't interfere in our 2016 U.S. election on behalf of Trump.

     Meanwhile, I'm shocked, shocked to learn that long-time British Moscow correspondent, Catherine Belton, has been a "friend" of the former head of MI6's Russia desk, Christopher Steele.  What's the world coming to?

     Beyond ad hominem KGB pablum, do let us know where Catherine Belton's well-documented history of 21st century Putin-ism gets it wrong.

     My advice to you is to refrain from posting bogus reviews of books that you haven't read.

https://www.amazon.com/Putins-People-Took-Back-Russia/dp/1250787327/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14N4Q0KW7XS1K&keywords=putin's+people+by+catherine+belton&qid=1676137853&sprefix=Putin's+People%2Caps%2C351&sr=8-1

   

Edited February 11, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Bob Ness]

16 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Paul Rigby,

     Thanks for sharing your bizarre KGB "review" of Catherine Belton's well-documented history of Putin's FSB-aligned oligarchy since 2000-- Putin's People.  Do you really not know that your hero, John Helmer, is a KGB-affiliated propagandist in Moscow?

https://www.sfgate.com/books/article/Another-Ex-KGB-Spy-Spills-the-Beans-Yuri-B-3041643.php

     Also, thanks for sharing your bizarre opinion that Russia didn't interfere in our 2016 U.S. election on behalf of Trump.

     Meanwhile, I'm shocked, shocked to learn that long-time British Moscow correspondent, Catherine Belton, has been a "friend" of the former head of MI6's Russia desk, Christopher Steele.  What's the world coming to?

     Beyond ad hominem KGB pablum, do let us know where Catherine Belton's well-documented history of 21st century Putin-ism gets it wrong.

     My advice to you is to refrain from posting bogus reviews of books that you haven't read.

https://www.amazon.com/Putins-People-Took-Back-Russia/dp/1250787327/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14N4Q0KW7XS1K&keywords=putin's+people+by+catherine+belton&qid=1676137853&sprefix=Putin's+People%2Caps%2C351&sr=8-1

   

Go read Helmer's twitter feed. Ridiculous. Not a single post that isn't a full stop defense of Putin. Not a hint of the usual complaining about SOMETHING one would expect in a political reporter's notebook on current events.

[Matthew Koch]

1 hour ago, Paul Rigby said:

I wouldn't bother, it's boilerplate Deep State pap albeit with the rare distinction of having been tested - and found wanting - in court. 

Below, a selection of John Helmer’s (Dances with Bears website) exposes of Catherine Belton as Deep State transmission belt:

Thursday, April 16th, 2020: http://johnhelmer.net/the-gospel-version-of-russia-catherine-belton-and-sergei-pugachev-preach-a-sermon-for-rupert-murdoch-to-sell-and-for-luke-harding-to-proselytise/

Tuesday, March 23rd, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/reuters-russia-lies-put-to-truth-test-in-uk-high-court-rupert-murdoch-sergei-pugachev-catherine-belton-charged-by-roman-abramovich/

Wednesday, July 28th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/catherine-belton-loses-first-truth-test-rupert-murdoch-publisher-to-retract-apologise-reuters-pretends-it-isnt-so/

Monday, October 4th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/beltons-people-fbi-investigation-casts-new-shadow-over-catherine-beltons-book-in-court/

Investigations by US government officials, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), of Christopher Steele’s (lead image, right) Russiagate dossier have identified Catherine Belton (left) as one of the targets for his fabrications. Belton was herself investigated as one of the journalists Steele recruited to plant his allegations of Russian interference days before the 2016 presidential election.

In her book Putin’s People, Belton repeats many of Steele’s allegations but she does not cite him or his consulting company Orbis as her source. Belton adds at the end of the book: “I’ll always be grateful to Chris [Steele] for his moral support.” After Belton’s book appeared in April 2020, Steele admitted to lawyers engaged in a London High Court lawsuit against him that Belton is “a friend, yes, she’s a friend”.

Fresh evidence revealed in the indictment issued by the US Department of Justice on September 16, shows that the FBI has concluded Steele was lying when he and  his American accomplices  planted false allegations of Russian election interference through several named intermediaries, including a Russian bank and Russian émigrés in the US,. The New York Times and The Atlantic were identified in last month’s US court papers as willing outlets for the fabrications. Earlier litigation by the Alfa Bank group in the US has identified five New York Times reporters and David Corn of Mother Jones as collaborators in the scheme.

Belton’s name, tagged with the note “London meeting”, has also surfaced in meeting notes taken at the State Department on October 11, 2016, when Steele met with Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland and a deputy, Kathleen Kavalec.  Kavalec’s meeting notes, partially declassified, reveal that Steele’s allegations of Russian election interference followed a briefing of the same allegations at the FBI a month earlier, on September 19, 2016,  by Michael Sussmann, a lawyer working in secret for the Democratic National Committee (DNC).  Sussmann is now charged with lying then to the FBI.

The Justice Department’s indictment says Sussmann was one of the plotters with Steele and others, including journalists, university academics, and IT experts in publishing false stories of Russian election interference; their plot aimed at hurting the Republican candidate, Donald Trump, by making it appear he was in cahoots with the Kremlin to hurt the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton.

“In or about late October 2016 – approximately one week before the 2016 U.S. Presidential election – multiple media outlets reported that U.S. government authorities had received and were investigating allegations concerning a purported secret channel of communications between the Trump Organization, owned by Donald J. Trump, and a particular Russian bank (‘Russian Bank-I’).”

The Kavalec notebook also reveals that Steele claimed there were “3 distinct channels” for this Russian operation “run by Kremlin, not FSB, Ivanov, Peskov, Putin.”  In addition to accusing Alfa Bank as the first channel “Alfa-Trump-Kremlin-comms”, Steele told Nuland that Serge Millian, a Russian émigré businessman in the US, was the second; Carter Page, a wannabe Trump campaign adviser, was the third.

In the sequence of Kavalec’s notes. Steele told Nuland there were “hackers out of R[ussia] – acting in US – [payments out of the state] pension fund Miami consulate payments – implants. Operations Paige [sic], Millian (émigrés?), Manafort.”  Steele then mentioned the London meeting with Belton whom he identified as “FT [Financial Times]”. 

Reporting by Belton in the Financial Times followed days after her meeting was mentioned by Steele to Nuland.  In  Belton’s published report, she named Serge Millian as the channel Steele had alleged at State and the FBI. “Now, “ Belton claimed on November 1, one week before Election Day,  “the US administration has formally accused Russia of attempting to interfere in the US electoral process through the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s email servers, Mr Millian’s activities — and his ties to the Republican presidential nominee — are coming under increasing scrutiny.” Belton did not identify her sources for her allegations against Millian. She implied, however, that they were US intelligence agents and the FBI.  “Mr Millian came on to the FBI’s radar”, Belton reported. “The FBI probe was part of a wake-up call for US intelligence over suspicions that Russia was activating networks long thought defunct after the end of the cold war.”

Millian avoided Belton for an interview and she reported. “He declined repeated requests for an interview and left the US for Asia on a business trip in early October.” Two weeks before, Steele had told Nuland, according to Kavalec’s transcript, Millian was “now in China.”

According to Belton, Millian had been a real estate broker for Trump, selling Trump organisation properties to Russians. Steele had told Nuland “real estate entities used for massive set of purchases by Russians. Set up espionage network in FL[orida] – to buy a lot of properties for POTUS [Trump’s] businesses through a R[ussian] brokage. 100’s of real estate transactions.”

Two months ago, on July 28, Belton was exposed as a xxxx and fabricator of her source material by her British publisher, HarperCollins.  Settling the High Court case brought against them both by Mikhail Fridman and Pyotr Aven of Alfa Bank, the publisher said there was “no significant evidence” for Belton’s allegations of KGB connections in the early careers of Fridman and Aven; and that she had failed to check her claims with Fridman and Aven before publishing them. The publisher agreed to delete Belton’s allegations from the book.

The terms of that settlement, and the ongoing High Court case in London, have stopped Macmillan, the US publisher of the book, from issuing the paperback edition, according to industry sources.

Once Belton’s allegations against the Alfa Bank group were abandoned by HarperCollins, lawyers for the remaining plaintiffs – Roman Abramovich, Rosneft and Shalva Chigirinsky – are now focusing on Belton’s acknowledged dependence on Steele – and on the fabrications Steele got Belton to print before the US election.

Tuesday, October 19th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/computer-analysis-reveals-catherine-beltons-book-has-another-author/

Wednesday, November 24th, 2021: http://johnhelmer.net/british-high-court-judge-rules-against-catherine-belton-harpercollins-in-double-barreled-blast/

Very informative post  thanks for sharing Paul 👍