Oswald and the Shot at Walker: Redressing the Balance

[Leslie Sharp]

14 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I note that Mr. Reid doesn’t know whether the National Zeitung article came up with the idea of tying Oswald to the Z Walker shooting, or if it was Walker himself. It’s easy to assume it originated with Walker, but it may have been the German editor who suggested it. But what of Marina’s testimony? Has she ever been asked directly by researchers like Reid?

            Gen. Edwin Walker always maintained that the German newspaper was the first to alert him about Oswald having taken a shot at him, but jottings in Pierre Lafitte’s datebook made a few days before the attempt on Walker occurred make this seem unlikely. As noted in a previous chapter, Lafitte wrote on April 7, 1963: “Walker – Lee and pictures— planned soon- can he do it? Won’t.” [it is possible the last word is Wait.] The following day, Lafitte made a note: Hal du Berrier (Salan R.).

Lesser known than the German newspaper’s scoop positioning “the patsy” a hundred yards from the window of Walker’s house on the night of April 10, are the remarks made in the aftermath of the assassination by “Hal” du Berrier, the correspondent who wrote primarily for the American Mercury which was owned by J. Russell McGuire with General Edwin Walker as the magazine’s military advisor. Du Berrier revealed that he was staying in Walker’s home in Dallas on November 22. It should also be noted that du Berrier’s history included a role in the Spanish Civil War, service in Bill Donovan’s OSS perhaps providing him introduction to Frank Ryan and Otto Skorzeny, and spying for Italian fascists. By the late 1950s, he had begun publishing H du B Reports, A Foreign Affairs Letter, with particular focus on Saigon, Vietnam, a concern he shared with his close friend, French rightist General Raoul Salan. 

[Mark Ulrik]

2 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

I have no idea. It just seems like it’d be pretty difficult if not impossible to determine the deflection direction without knowing the precise trajectory. Where did you get the information that the trajectory from the shooting location to the window was already downward? In the Walker Exhibits it’s tough to make out but it looks pretty straight if not slightly upward to me, and the photos do not show much of a slope at all to Walker’s yard. CE1007 taken from the ground outside the window in particular suggests that there’d have to be a pretty steep slope to the shooting location for the shot to have been aimed downward, and I can’t see anything like that reflected in the other photos. 

It's hard to disagree about the usefulness of the photos. I was relying solely on verbal descriptions, I think, but it's been a while, so I'm kind of rusty. Until I get my ducks in row, it would be interesting to hear from Dallas members who're more familiar with the lay of the land.

[Steve Roe]

Regarding this "downward trajectory" controversy over the years, people overlook the fact that Walker's had his window in the up position (was a warm day), and he was sitting down at his desk. If you look at CE1007 you can see the height of the window as relative to the man pointing to the hole.  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0335b.htm

All the times I've been out there to the old Walker home, it appeared to me that there was a slight incline from the alley to the window, not much. 

The way that bullet hit the bottom of the window frame, I can see why it went on a downward trajectory. That's the way the cops described it in the case report. I have no reason to doubt their observation. 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Ron, re. I'd read something about, but never the details of Finnegan and Harkness observation of the guy passing out pro Castro flyers in downtown Dallas in late spiring, early summer 1963. 

I've been searching for the citation for this for months. I seem to recall the incident occurred in front of S&H Green store - or maybe Sanger-Harris?  The timing would be significant if it's alleged that Joannides initiated an operation using Oswald in New Orleans in August of 1963.

  

Leslie, there is a link in Reid's article to both Harkness and Finnegans reports to Curry (CE 1409).  Both state the suspect ran into the H L Green drug store and that it would have been in late spring or early summer the year before, 1963.

History Matters Archive - Warren Commission Hearings, Volume XXII, pg (history-matters.com)

[Greg Doudna]

3 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Greg, the color photo of Walker's window comes from the 1993 Frontline series, "Who was Lee Harvey Oswald". That's some 30 years before, so no doubt the damage does look different from the original damage photos.  At approximately the 1:03:00 mark in the video shows the color version. Also of interest to you is Coleman's account of the vehicles leaving the area, just after Walker's narrative. The '58 Chevy could have been the car that Walker saw driving off and turning left on Turtle Creek Blvd. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjwKxuie2o

Thanks Steve, I looked at the video and confirmed as you say the color photo posted by Mark Ulrik is walker’s window. Also I did see the older Kirk Coleman immediately following which was interesting. On the window though an important question: you say the window was raised meaning the bottom pane which slides up and down. It was a hot night; someone checked and it was something like 80 degrees even that late at 9 pm, so unless he had air conditioning the raised window would make sense. But—in that color photo posted by Ulrik it looks like the bullet path not only went through wood but went through the top of the glass, a glass pane below the bullet hole. How could that be if the lower window pane in fact was raised?

On the car Walker saw leaving turning out on Turtle Creek Blvd, I read that as Coleman’s No. 1, the 1949-1950, that Coleman did tell police and FBI he saw drive out of the parking lot by that route. Not the No. 2 Coleman-identified 1958 Chevy, which he did not see which way it left. I believe you yourself plausibly said in a video tour at the walker house on YouTube that that ‘58 Chevy may have left by the alley, and for other reasons I think that is correct (David Surrey said he left in his fathers car in the alley, which I think was that car), such that that would not be the car walker saw exiting out to Turtle Creek Blvd. 

[Tom Gram]

52 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Thanks Steve, I looked at the video and confirmed as you say the color photo posted by Mark Ulrik is walker’s window. Also I did see the older Kirk Coleman immediately following which was interesting. On the window though an important question: you say the window was raised meaning the bottom pane which slides up and down. It was a hot night; someone checked and it was something like 80 degrees even that late at 9 pm, so unless he had air conditioning the raised window would make sense. But—in that color photo posted by Ulrik it looks like the bullet path not only went through wood but went through the top of the glass, a glass pane below the bullet hole. How could that be if the lower window pane in fact was raised?

On the car Walker saw leaving turning out on Turtle Creek Blvd, I read that as Coleman’s No. 1, the 1949-1950, that Coleman did tell police and FBI he saw drive out of the parking lot by that route. Not the No. 2 Coleman-identified 1958 Chevy, which he did not see which way it left. I believe you yourself plausibly said in a video tour at the walker house on YouTube that that ‘58 Chevy may have left by the alley, and for other reasons I think that is correct (David Surrey said he left in his fathers car in the alley, which I think was that car), such that that would not be the car walker saw exiting out to Turtle Creek Blvd. 

Greg, I think Walker mentioned in his testimony that he did have an AC unit in an adjacent window but it wasn’t installed that night. I might be interpreting this wrong though: 

General WALKER. Not at all, because you can't see the house, and that is why the picture with the policeman in it is so hard to identify. Windows don't show there. There is a whole glassed-in porch to the left of the policeman, as you look at this picture. There is a 5 by 6 glassed window there with a back porch that sticks out a little bit that doesn't show.
Then there is a window beside that porch in the room I was sitting in.
Well, delete that. I don't think the cooler was in the window at that time, but from that window, there is a space of 6 or 8 feet. Then you come to the window that was fired through, and then there is 2 or 3 feet to the corner of the house.
Then referring back to the picture we referred to, the policeman was in you see the dark alley going down beside the house between the house and the fence, which is the north side, in general, of the house. 

[Benjamin Cole]

16 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Regarding this "downward trajectory" controversy over the years, people overlook the fact that Walker's had his window in the up position (was a warm day), and he was sitting down at his desk. If you look at CE1007 you can see the height of the window as relative to the man pointing to the hole.  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0335b.htm

All the times I've been out there to the old Walker home, it appeared to me that there was a slight incline from the alley to the window, not much. 

The way that bullet hit the bottom of the window frame, I can see why it went on a downward trajectory. That's the way the cops described it in the case report. I have no reason to doubt their observation. 

Many thanks for the add. 

That was my impression from the DPD reports...the Walker bullet was actually deflected lower, towards Walker after striking the lower side of a wooden window pane, but still missed by so much Walker (who had combat experience in the Army) thought the sound might have come from fireworks outside the house. 

Walker only deduced he had been shot at when he noticed a hole in the wall near him. 

Only later did media versions emerge about the bullet passing through Walker's scalp, etc. 

The true story about the Walker shot in no way exonerates LHO...but does indicate how media often played LHO angles. 

My thought is LHO fired and intended to miss Walker, a supervised rehearsal for 11/22. Just IMHO. 

[Mark Ulrik]

18 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Regarding this "downward trajectory" controversy over the years, people overlook the fact that Walker's had his window in the up position (was a warm day), and he was sitting down at his desk. If you look at CE1007 you can see the height of the window as relative to the man pointing to the hole.  https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0335b.htm

All the times I've been out there to the old Walker home, it appeared to me that there was a slight incline from the alley to the window, not much. 

The way that bullet hit the bottom of the window frame, I can see why it went on a downward trajectory. That's the way the cops described it in the case report. I have no reason to doubt their observation. 

Good stuff. The published images are somewhat hard to interpret, but the same police report said the backyard was an upgrade to the alley, and I've "always" assumed that (a) the line of sight from the muzzle to the head of the seated Walker would be downward, and (b) nicking the upper edge of the glass would tend to deflect the bullet upward. Do you think Oswald's aim was wrong because he failed to consider that the scope was zeroed in at a much greater distance?

Edited March 22, 2023 by Mark Ulrik

[Greg Doudna]

5 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Good stuff. The published images are somewhat hard to interpret, but the same police report said the backyard was an upgrade to the alley, and I've "always" assumed that (a) the line of sight from the muzzle to the head of the seated Walker would be downward, and (b) nicking the upper edge of the glass would tend to deflect the bullet upward. Do you think Oswald's aim was wrong because he failed to consider that the scope was zeroed in at a much greater distance?

A better explanation for why the shot did not hit Walker is he was not in the room when the shot was fired, i.e. the staged shot suspected by law enforcement from the beginning. It was not until 2017 with the publication of Gayle Nix Jackson's book, Pieces of the Puzzle, that it was possible to learn that Walker aide Robert Surrey's car was black over white, the same color match and, it turns out therefore, the same car that Kirk Coleman saw in the church parking lot entered by a man leaving from the direction of the alley moments after the shot.

That was Robert Surrey coming out of the Walker house following the shot, moments before driving into the alley and picking up his son David, then age 12, who in later years also told of it. Kirk Coleman saw the man--Surrey--leaning over in the car putting something on the rear floorboards. That was clearing the front seat preparing it for a passenger, his 12-year old son, to sit. Exactly what I have done countless times with with my car clearing the front passenger seat for someone to sit there. All of this means something that has not been recognized before: that Robert Surrey was present in the house with Walker at the time of the shot and that it was Surrey who was the man Coleman saw coming from the alley to get into the black-over-white car. But both Walker--to a reporter that night who published a newspaper story the next day (this was brought to my attention by Steve Roe)--and Surrey to police, FBI, and in his Warren Commission testimony, denied Surrey was present in the Walker house at the time of the shot--dissembled over that highly relevant fact. 

But Surrey was in the house with Walker at the time of the shot because Kirk Coleman saw him getting into his car and leaving moments after the shot. Surrey staged that shot on behalf of General Walker, who according to Minutemen founder Robert DePugh had asked him, DePugh, the year before in 1962 to stage a fake kidnapping of himself to be blamed on communists for publicity in his run for governor of Texas. As Oswald's m.o. in New Orleans illustrates and as Oswald directly told Michael Paine, he was spying on the extreme right in Dallas with mention of Walker, according to Michael Paine. Oswald worked with Surrey to carry out that staged shot on behalf of Walker, and did not tell Marina all of what he was doing.

This solution to the case makes use of new information which first came to light only in 2017 and not recognized for its significance even then, argued in 79 pages, 30 of which are primary source documents quoted, some work to read but for those interested may be worth the slog (make it easier on the eyes and print it out on paper using the button below), https://www.scrollery.com/?p=1497. I discussed this paper on the Ochelli Effect radio program with Chuck Ochelli and Larry Hancock on March 16: https://podbay.fm/p/the-ochelli-effect/e/1679088261.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Mark Ulrik]

Greg, how do you explain the pieces of metal that were reportedly dug out of Walker's arm?

[Tom Gram]

37 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Greg, how do you explain the pieces of metal that were reportedly dug out of Walker's arm?

Maybe the metal came from the screen frame?

Mr. LIEBELER. The bullet apparently actually hit a portion of the window frame before it went through. Does that accord with your recollection? 
General WALKER. The bullet went through the screen frame. Then it went through a portion of the window frame, and a portion of the glass. 

EDIT: I haven’t finished Greg’s essay so I’m not sure what evidence he provides for Walker not being in the room, but I don’t think an intentional miss and Walker’s presence in the room are mutually exclusive. Steve Roe’s observations about the slope from the alley to the window combined with CE1007 and other photos seem to support the contention that the shot was initially traveling upward and was deflected downward towards Walker by the window frame. The only explanation I can think of for such a bad accidental miss, assuming the gun involved was the MC, which is far from certain, is that the sight was misaligned. I think the WC tests showed that the MC fired high and to the right, so maybe that’s what happened? I have no idea. I do find it hard to believe that the cops would mix up a copper and steel jacketed bullet, but who knows? 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Mark Ulrik]

3 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

Maybe the metal came from the screen frame?

Mr. LIEBELER. The bullet apparently actually hit a portion of the window frame before it went through. Does that accord with your recollection? 
General WALKER. The bullet went through the screen frame. Then it went through a portion of the window frame, and a portion of the glass. 

I kind of doubt that debris from the screen frame would have traveled that far. Doesn't it seem more likely that the metal came from the bullet?
But the reason I asked Greg was that he thinks Walker wasn't even in the room at the time of the shooting.

[Greg Doudna]

52 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Greg, how do you explain the pieces of metal that were reportedly dug out of Walker's arm?

Self-inflicted prior to entry to the room. Back of right forearm pressed gently down on metal pieces lightly breaking skin 3-4 places would do it, almost painless. Compare Curtis Sliwa of the Guardian Angels faking attacks on himself for parallel. No serious injury, no witnesses, publicity seeking figure, otherwise unsolved… cause of law enforcement suspicion pattern… you’re aware something like 40 percent of fires of commercial establishments (or whatever the high percentage is) are arson by owners for insurance purposes? Same principle by analogy, though each case is case by case. There already was a case for a staged shot, but the covered-up presence of Walker’s friend and publicist Surrey leaving the house right after the shot and the involvement of a known right-wing movement infiltrator as the gunman, to borrow the phrase of a Larry Hancock title, is the tipping point. The key point is Surrey was involved and Surreys involvement would be on behalf of Walker not an attempt to kill Walker (only to look that way). 

[Benjamin Cole]

5 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Maybe the metal came from the screen frame?

Mr. LIEBELER. The bullet apparently actually hit a portion of the window frame before it went through. Does that accord with your recollection? 
General WALKER. The bullet went through the screen frame. Then it went through a portion of the window frame, and a portion of the glass. 

EDIT: I haven’t finished Greg’s essay so I’m not sure what evidence he provides for Walker not being in the room, but I don’t think an intentional miss and Walker’s presence in the room are mutually exclusive. Steve Roe’s observations about the slope from the alley to the window combined with CE1007 and other photos seem to support the contention that the shot was initially traveling upward and was deflected downward towards Walker by the window frame. The only explanation I can think of for such a bad accidental miss, assuming the gun involved was the MC, which is far from certain, is that the sight was misaligned. I think the WC tests showed that the MC fired high and to the right, so maybe that’s what happened? I have no idea. I do find it hard to believe that the cops would mix up a copper and steel jacketed bullet, but who knows? 

I do find it hard to believe that the cops would mix up a copper and steel jacketed bullet, but who knows? --TG

Verily. But the detective who made that observations has passed away. I would have loved to ask him how he came to determine it was a steel-jacketed bullet. 

As stated, if he tested the bullet with a magnet....

It is possible the DPD detective on the case saw a copper-colored hull, and assumed copper-plating on a steel jacket, which was common.

Still, that seems like an incredibly casual deduction, given that Walker was a very prominent political figure at the time, and this was the most high-profile murder attempt in Dallas at the time.  

Really, the DPD finds shells marked "auto" that are not marked "auto," and it finds steel-jacketed bullets that are not steel-jacketed bullets....

 

 

[Steve Roe]

On 3/22/2023 at 6:56 AM, Mark Ulrik said:

Good stuff. The published images are somewhat hard to interpret, but the same police report said the backyard was an upgrade to the alley, and I've "always" assumed that (a) the line of sight from the muzzle to the head of the seated Walker would be downward, and (b) nicking the upper edge of the glass would tend to deflect the bullet upward. Do you think Oswald's aim was wrong because he failed to consider that the scope was zeroed in at a much greater distance?

Mark, I had to review that DPD case report again, been a long time since I studied it. But yes, it does say the backyard was on an upgrade in 1963. That is correct. So, my contemporary observation is not correct. But I didn't see it being any big decline or incline either. 

Yes, you have to take into account of the rifle muzzle to the window frame where the shot hit. I can't say with any certainty if it would be on a straight line, or downward or upward. 

After studying that case report again, the Detectives determined the nick (or chipped portion) of the lattice fence was near the top of the fence, through one of the 8" wide openings. I'm not sure of the height of the lattice fence, but I would speculate it was 5-6 foot high. That means the shooter (Oswald) was in a standing position when he fired the shot. If the trajectory of the bullet from the fence line was on a downward course, then I can still see it deflecting off the screen frame-window sash on hitting the wall in a downward course. 

This distance was estimated to be 100-120 feet. Walker called it 40 steps (an old term) which equates to around 100 feet. Using that distance, the sighting of the Ordnance Scope is of no consequence, providing it was sighted in at 100 yards.

This gets into speculation land why he missed.

My best guess is he felt pressured and may have rushed the shot somewhat. There were the two guys walking around in the LDS parking lot, and he might have noticed or heard them and rushed the shot, even though he used the lattice opening as a gun rest. Walker had his own explanation that through the scope with a lighted room background, he may not have seen the window frame clearly. Can't rule that out either. All in all, Oswald missed by an inch or so. 

A quick check with a friend of mine that owns the same model Carcano and side mounted scope, says yes, a shooter can see through an 8" opening. In fact, he showed me how the barrel, stock and scope can easily go through a smaller 6" opening. So absolutely his line of sight with the scope would work with the lattice fence opening. I think Oswald carefully planned this out ahead of time, casing the property, taking pictures and planning his escape route. 

Also, it's possible that Oswald may have been wearing the same dark clothes as in the backyard photos for nighttime concealability. He could have ditched those clothes later before he came home. I haven't seen any mention of those dark clothes in his property lists. 

Any way you look at it, Oswald was making a fast getaway. He didn't bother to take a few seconds and observe whether or not he hit Walker. And of course, he didn't work the bolt for a second shot, leaving the cartridge in the chamber which suggests to me that he sensed he might have rushed it for fear of being discovered. 

As far as the tired old "Steel Jacket" bullet controversy goes, it falls apart as the bullet retrieved by the DPD is the same bullet in NARA. I explain all that here: https://steveroeconsulting.wixsite.com/website/post/the-general-walker-bullet-real-or-fake

Why the cops described it that way, well some bullets are copper gilded on steel.