Why Col. L. Fletcher Prouty's Critics Are Wrong

[David Josephs]

4 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

But I don't remember him ever saying that LeMay blew smoke in his face. Sounds believable, though

Pierre Fink - Shaw Trial

Curtis LeMay, 4-Star General, United States Air Force: promoted October 29, 1951.  It was said he removed his 4-star cluster and was not wearing it in the room.  a Single star General is know as a Brigadier General.  I do not believe there was any other General there from the Air Force.

A doctor remembers thousands of parts of Anatomy to become a doctor, and and untold # of procedures, symptoms, consequences, treatments, etc...  yet the names of those in the room barking orders who could destroy Finck's career in a heartbeat, well, not so much.  

Q: Now, can you give me the name then of the General that was in charge of the autopsy, as you testified about?
A: Well, there was no General in charge of the autopsy. There were several people, as I have stated before, I heard Dr. Humes state who was in charge here, and he stated that the General answered "I am," it may have been pertaining to operations other than the autopsy, it does not mean the Army General was in charge of the autopsy, but when Dr. Humes asked who was in charge here, it may have been who was in charge of the operations, but not of the autopsy, and by "operations," I mean the over-all supervision.
Q: Which includes your report. Does it not?
A: Sir?
Q: Which includes your report. Does it not?
A: No.
Q: It does not?
A: I would not say so, because the report I signed was signed by two other pathologists and at no time did this Army General say that he would have anything to do with signing this autopsy report.
Q: Can you give me the Army General's name?
A: I don't remember it.
Q: How did you know he was an Army General?
A: Because Dr. Humes said so.
Q: Was he in uniform?
A: I don't remember.
Q: Were any of the Admirals or Generals or any of the Military in uniform in that autopsy room?
A: Yes.
Q: Were there any other Generals in uniform?
A: I remember a Brigadier General of the Air Force, but I don't remember his name

[Ron Ecker]

9 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Pierre Fink - Shaw Trial

Curtis LeMay, 4-Star General, United States Air Force: promoted October 29, 1951.  It was said he removed his 4-star cluster and was not wearing it in the room.  a Single star General is know as a Brigadier General.  I do not believe there was any other General there from the Air Force.

A doctor remembers thousands of parts of Anatomy to become a doctor, and and untold # of procedures, symptoms, consequences, treatments, etc...  yet the names of those in the room barking orders who could destroy Finck's career in a heartbeat, well, not so much.  

Q: Now, can you give me the name then of the General that was in charge of the autopsy, as you testified about?
A: Well, there was no General in charge of the autopsy. There were several people, as I have stated before, I heard Dr. Humes state who was in charge here, and he stated that the General answered "I am," it may have been pertaining to operations other than the autopsy, it does not mean the Army General was in charge of the autopsy, but when Dr. Humes asked who was in charge here, it may have been who was in charge of the operations, but not of the autopsy, and by "operations," I mean the over-all supervision.
Q: Which includes your report. Does it not?
A: Sir?
Q: Which includes your report. Does it not?
A: No.
Q: It does not?
A: I would not say so, because the report I signed was signed by two other pathologists and at no time did this Army General say that he would have anything to do with signing this autopsy report.
Q: Can you give me the Army General's name?
A: I don't remember it.
Q: How did you know he was an Army General?
A: Because Dr. Humes said so.
Q: Was he in uniform?
A: I don't remember.
Q: Were any of the Admirals or Generals or any of the Military in uniform in that autopsy room?
A: Yes.
Q: Were there any other Generals in uniform?
A: I remember a Brigadier General of the Air Force, but I don't remember his name

Thanks. It’s been years, but I remember an attempt by someone to identify the “Army General” said to be “in charge,” and it meant in charge of the operation in general, not the autopsy itself. The trouble is, like Finck I can’t remember the name. (And I don’t know why an Army General would be in charge of anything at a Navy hospital. Not to mention an Air Force General. But I guess Humes wasn’t in much of a position to argue.)

 

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

Major General Philip C. Wehle was the Commanding General of the Military District of Washington at the time of President Kennedy's assassination. He was responsible for overseeing the arrangements for the autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital. However, the actual autopsy was performed by Navy pathologists Commander James J. Humes, Commander J. Thornton Boswell, and Lt. Col. Pierre A. Finck (U.S. Army).

[David Josephs]

3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

"He ( JFK ) thought he was a little God." ?

Great post Joe...

A number of years ago I thought it might be fruitful, and fun, to use images and short quotes to illustrate some of the conflicts in the record as well as show some of the "who's who" of the crime.  To use color to emphasis my points...

That line of Dulles' has always stuck with me as it seems to have resonated with you.  And Kennedy does this to these men while in his early 40's.  People really don't know anymore how sad a day that was for the future of our nation. Or how much ideology based hatred these men had for him due to his upsetting their apple-cart.

[David Josephs]

32 minutes ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Major General Philip C. Wehle was the Commanding General of the Military District of Washington at the time of President Kennedy's assassination. He was responsible for overseeing the arrangements for the autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital. However, the actual autopsy was performed by Navy pathologists Commander James J. Humes, Commander J. Thornton Boswell, and Lt. Col. Pierre A. Finck (U.S. Army).

Keyvan, I thought you might appreciate this... an org/relationship chart I did many years ago to try and better understand who was with who and who out-ranked who. 

At the top is Admiral Anderson, JCS.  Lipsey claims to have flown in a helicopter with Wehle to Bethesda (see below)

 

 

After helping lift Kennedy’s body into one of those hearses, Maj. Gen. Philip C. Wehle, commander of the Washington, D.C., military district, gave his 24-year-old aide a sidearm and an order: Do not leave Kennedy’s body during the autopsy procedure and do not allow the body to be moved without authorization.

Lipsey told the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1978 that he was a bit traumatized by the order. He had never seen a dead man, let alone an autopsy. “(But) I couldn’t tell the general, ‘No, I’m not going in the room,’” he said.
The hearse carrying Kennedy’s body arrived at Bethesda Naval Hospital’s rear entrance, a loading dock. Lipsey and Wehle had hopped from Air Force One to the hospital in a helicopter. A “decoy” hearse, accompanied by Jacqueline Kennedy and presidential aides, had arrived at the front of the hospital a few minutes earlier*. As expected, it drew a mob of awaiting reporters, photographers and onlookers.

*what Lipsey was never asked and never explained was how and when the casket in the "decoy" hearse became empty since this was the same casket we all saw being loaded onto AF1 at Love Field.  

The "7:17" written above is the time Kellerman says he and Greer, Sibert and O'Niell brought in the casket which arrives at the front, Lipsey's decoy, and finally makes it to the back door.

Other reports place than delivery from a different set of people headed by Dennis David prior to 6:30pm

The official autopsy started at 8pm, yet over the years Humes' time for this moves back until he finally admits it was around 6:30 that he started work on JFK.

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by David Josephs

[Ron Ecker]

59 minutes ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

Major General Philip C. Wehle was the Commanding General of the Military District of Washington at the time of President Kennedy's assassination. He was responsible for overseeing the arrangements for the autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital. However, the actual autopsy was performed by Navy pathologists Commander James J. Humes, Commander J. Thornton Boswell, and Lt. Col. Pierre A. Finck (U.S. Army).

Wehle, that was the name I couldn't remember. 

[David Josephs]

4 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

In the early 1960s, L. Fletcher Prouty was assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense to work on military support for the clandestine operations of the CIA. He was later promoted to Colonel and continued his work in the Office of Special Operations.

Hypothetically:
Did Prouty find the hitmen?
Did he find find Oswald to be a good asset to be the patsy?

I know you don't like my opinions, but this has to be researched if it can be?
Are there any of the released records that show Prouty's actions during the time period?

Sounds to me you've found a subject you like...  pull a Penn Jones and research the  h e l l  out of it and tell us what you find.

You are aware who wrote ZR/RIFLE, yes?

 

 

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Sounds to me you've found a subject you like...  pull a Penn Jones and research the  h e l l  out of it and tell us what you find.

You are aware who wrote ZR/RIFLE, yes?

 

 

I'm assuming you are referring to a book about the JFK assassination titled "ZR/RIFLE: The Plot to Kill Kennedy and Castro" by Robert Blakey and Richard Billings. Robert Blakey is a law professor and former Chief Counsel and Staff Director of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, while Richard Billings was a journalist and former editor of the New York Herald Tribune. Together, they co-authored this book which presents the theory that Lee Harvey Oswald was part of a conspiracy involving the CIA and anti-Castro Cuban exiles to assassinate both President John F. Kennedy and Cuban leader Fidel Castro.

Penn Jones was a close friend of J. D. Tippit

Edited May 8, 2023 by Keyvan Shahrdar

[James DiEugenio]

I think Keyvan is confused.

Claudia Furiati, a Latin American journalist, wrote ZR RIfle: The Plot To Kill Kennedy and Castro.

That book is largely based on the work of G2 chief in Cuba Jaime Escalante. 

Blakey and Billings wrote a book called Fatal Hour, which was a reissue of The Plot to Kill the President.

In my view the former book is a more valuable one than the latter.

Edited May 8, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

I'm assuming you are referring to a book about the JFK assassination titled "ZR/RIFLE: The Plot to Kill Kennedy and Castro" by Robert Blakey and Richard Billings.

"Claudia Furiati, a Latin American journalist, wrote ZR RIfle: The Plot To Kill Kennedy and Castro."
(thx Jim)

I was referring to William Harvey's manual on assassination - if you are looking for someone to blame

Edited May 8, 2023 by David Josephs

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

14 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I think Keyvan is confused.

Claudia Furiati, a Latin American journalist, wrote ZR RIfle: The Plot To Kill Kennedy and Castro.

That book is largely based on the work of G2 chief in Cuba Jaime Escalante. 

Blakey and Billings wrote a book called Fatal Hour, which was a reissue of The Plot to Kill the President.

In my view the former book is a more valuable one than the latter.

I must admit, I live confused!

[David Josephs]

6 minutes ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

I must admit, I live confused!

[Jonathan Cohen]

A little walk down memory lane: Alexander Butterfield discusses Fletcher Prouty's allegations about him on "60 Minutes" in 1975:

 

[W. Niederhut]

9 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

A little walk down memory lane: Alexander Butterfield discusses Fletcher Prouty's allegations about him on "60 Minutes" in 1975:

 

Jonathan,

     Thanks for posting this.  Interesting historical stuff.

     Two questions.

    1) Do you believe that Fletcher Prouty was telling the truth about what E. Howard Hunt had told him about Butterfield allegedly working for the CIA in the White House?

    2)  If Prouty was, in fact, telling the truth about what Hunt had told him about Butterfield, did Prouty lie when he reported that this is what Hunt had told him?

[James DiEugenio]

This is so interesting if you know the whole story.

But you have to bring in Haldeman and Jim Hougan.

They make a good circumstantial case that Butterfield was CIA. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by James DiEugenio