Did David Josephs leave the forum?

[Michael Crane]

I can't remember seeing a post by him in awhile.

[Ron Bulman]

I don't think so.  He last visited this past Sunday evening.  He last posted on 4/13.

[James DiEugenio]

I sure hope not.

He is a valuable poster.

[Michael Crane]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

I don't think so.  He last visited this past Sunday evening.  He last posted on 4/13.

Thanks for the info Ron.I certainly appreciate it.

[David Josephs]

Thanks for the concern...  I am truly touched.

Had a 4 hour talk with DPUK about how Ruby actually got into the basement which John and I worked on for quite some time.

He did most the writing Jim so that's why I didn't send to you, it's up on the harveyandlee.net site.

And we dovetailed into the conversation about the 5 wallets found but only 2 wallets from IRVING ini inventory.

There is no "Tippit wallet" or "Arrest wallet" in evidence.  All the items "found" in the wallet are attributed to "a" wallet but not the ones from Irving
as there was a Red one and a Brown one with a Marine group photo...

Here is the photo and you will notice in the inventory by the 2 FBI men on the 22nd and 23rd... it's not there.

This wallet was never mentioned

 

Here is the notebook page listing the only wallet/billfolds

 

 

And a comparison of the 2 FBI reports...  Notice the CLEMENTS reports says "PHOTO of the SSS card". not the card itself while Bookout is only given the photos by Fritz and all of a sudden we have another HIDELL ID shown below.  It did not exist on the 22rd for CLEMENTS.

Finally, below that is a note from Hosty with the items and the billfold given to him AFTER all the inventory is returned from the FBI.

The Tippit wallet, Croy, Westbrook and Fritz sets up Oswald, ties him to Hidell, and as we see it were primarily responsible for bringing Oswald to Ruby at the right time.

Biggest oversight in the Ruby analysis was that everyone only considered how Ruby's timing was so perfect... ie how did he/they do it?
The see Ruby walking to the side ANNEX door, get the word to Frtiz who ends the interrogations and immediately brings Oswald down to his death...

Great stuff!

 

 

 

[David Josephs]

We actually got COVID here at my parents... nothing severe but very tiring and a lot of soreness.

Luckily DPUK was a great ZOOM discussion last Friday so I had been working on that, then got sick, and just been dealing.

Again, thanks for the concern.

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

 

Again, thanks for the concern.

David,

There was concern because you are liked and respected.

👍

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

Just now, Steve Thomas said:

David,

There was concern because you are liked and respected.

👍

Steve Thomas

Thank you so very much Steve.

I'm overwhelmed. 

 

[Ron Bulman]

Hey DJ, sorry to hear about the Covid bit, that's still scary stuff.  Glad you're doing better.  

That picture of the wallet, are those studs in it?  If so, that would be damn uncomfortable to sit on if one carried it in a back pocket.

Also, I can look myself but did DPUK record your Zoom session?  Will it be posted there if not yet?

[David Josephs]

22 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Hey DJ, sorry to hear about the Covid bit, that's still scary stuff.  Glad you're doing better.  

That picture of the wallet, are those studs in it?  If so, that would be damn uncomfortable to sit on if one carried it in a back pocket.

Also, I can look myself but did DPUK record your Zoom session?  Will it be posted there if not yet?

Thanks Ron...  glad I waited the 3 years to finally get my share of the pandemic... 4 shots later it really is not hitting too badly so I can only imagine how terrible a worse case of this would have been. 

Neale Safaty is the DPUK events coordinator who I met in Dallas in 2019... wonderful man, and I do think they post these discussions on their site... I'd have to check as well.

It's very hard for me to watch myself... so I don't but probably should, just to learn how to improve.  I also had a nice conversation with Robbie from Out of the Blank a couple months back.  He is compiling a very interesting array of discussions.

Now I'm sure Len Osanic will see this and think I was avoiding him... not the case... I had just taken a bit of a break to research the Ruby and wallet thing with Robbie and Neale catching me as I was finishing.

===

I actually took a few days and went thru all the related "evidence" photos from the Dallas Archives DPD/JFK collection.  Found that studded wallet and the poor images of "items taken from wallet at Oswald's home". with no further description.   We only have this Croy signed photo stating the wallet was found there as the only physical proof... The overt disappearance of that wallet - and the arrest wallet from which HILL states the name HIDELL was found (the only two items of evidence with HIDELL supposedly taken from his person) - may be the most obvious smoking guns for a conspiracy to make OSWALD the "patsy".

We came to wonder if Fritz had seen the Tippit wallet from Westbrook and knew about the Arrest wallet... he knew something was up either before or afterward... we can't be sure.  Fritz appears way more culpable than we have ever imagined, the close one looks.

Edited May 4, 2023 by David Josephs

[James DiEugenio]

What do you mean about Fritz David?

[Mark Ulrik]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

What do you mean about Fritz David?

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

What do you mean about Fritz David?

That's funny Mark.. 

4 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said:

Fritz was all about closing cases and keeping his conviction rate in the high 90's%. Regardless of the evidence, what the defendant said (he purposefully did not take notes so evidence could be acquired if necessary to help convict.

I don't believe he was some doddering old fool but instead a very crafty and successful Captain of Homicide.

The wallet(s) would ultimately have to travel thru him.  His awareness of these multiple wallets and the manner in which they were disappeared in favor of a single wallet with a combined group of identification AND the Hidell ID must have been either a surprise with which he accepted the implications and ran with it... or he was aware of the need to manufacture the evidence as he was instructed.

Fritz provides BOOKOUT with the photos of the official wallet evidence on the 24th, provides Hosty with the actual items on the 27th, he must be aware that there were simply too many wallets, 2 of which his men claim had both Oswald and Hidell ID's yet like the other BYP Negative, they just disappear in favor of a singular wallet shown below which matches the TIPPIT wallet's visual description.. yet is described again as "the wallet from Oswald's home"

The FBI's list of 3 photos once again drops the Marine group photo in the wallet found in Irving.  Fritz and Westbrook were very close.  I found documents where WESTBROOK releases RUBY in 1953 after a concealed gun charge is dropped, 1953!

Fritz did not ask Oswald a single question about the Tippit murder although that was what he was supposedly arrested for...  Fritz claims he asked him if he shot him and nothing else... claims he was convinced after MARKHAM identified him as the shooter.

With Fritz, Westbrook and Croy we see an amazing amount of the activity and incriminating evidence emanating from these men's discoveries...   Fritz was just doing what he had always done to close and win cases.. only this time he had the FBI and SS helping him as well.  He is way moire culpable than he has been credited, as I see how the evidence of his guilt was developed over the course of a few hours then a couple of days.  All that weekend I've shown how the FBI ignored it's own Rifle evidence/investigation to pin the rifle on Oswald and Kleins.

FWIW

Mr. BALL. And you asked him if he shot Governor Connally?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes. sir; he said he didn't do that, he said he didn't shoot Tippit.

 

[Steve Thomas]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

What do you mean about Fritz David?

Jim,

Here's another one.

Jail Checkouts
Fritz Report on the case. Commission Document 81 - AG Texas Letter with attachments dated 07 Jan 1964 page 467. Shows Oswald being checked out of jail at 12:35 and returned at 1:10 PM
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10483#relPageId=467&tab=page

 

If Oswald was checked out of jail at 12:35 PM on Saturday, November 23rd. where was he?

If you go to the Portal to Texas History and do a search for lineups, there is this document:

In the document below, the check mark at 12:35 is not mine.

[List of dates and times of line-up participants] Page: 1 of 2

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339639/m1/2/?q=lineups

 

For what it's worth, I've come to believe that the Fritz Interrogation Notes are a fraud. Not so much a fraud, as fraudulent; because I believe that a page has been removed between pp. 4 and 5 of those Notes in an effort to hide an Interview with Lee Harvey that took place at 12:35 PM on Saturday, November 23rd.

 

So far, I have found seven versions or copies of the Report that Captain Will Fritz of the the DPD Homicide and Robbery Bureau filed concerning his Interrogations of Lee Harvey Oswald.

 

1) Interrogation, by an unknown author. Typed rough draft with handwritten corrections pertaining to the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald, (Original), date unknown. DPD Archives Box 1, Folder# 15, Item# 1. Consists of 12 pages. This is the version of the Interrogation that has stenographer's notes.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm
On page 8 of that Report, it says that Oswald was brought down for an Interrogation at 12:35 PM on Saturday, November 23rd. In this version, Fritz says that Oswald was brought to the office for another interview with Inspector Kelly (the name Kelly is corrected to Kelley), and “some of the other officers and myself”.


2) Interrogation, by J. W. Fritz. Draft of the interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald, (Photocopy) Poor Quality), date unknown DPD Archives, Box 15, Folder# 1, Item# 111. This consists of 13 pages. By starting new paragraphs as called for in the draft in Box 1, this draft has been extended to 13 pages. You can also see the differences between page 5 in Box1 and page 6 in Box 15 where Fritz wanted language added about the bus transfer in Oswald's pocket. This tells me that the draft in Box 1 came first.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box15.htm
On page 9 of this Box 15 version, the 12:35 time has been crossed out, and 6:00 PM has been written in.

 

5) There is also a version of the Interrogation of Oswald in CD 81 AG Texas Letter with attachments dated 07 Jan 1964 beginning on page 452. Covers the Interrogation of Oswald and takes up 13 pages. On page 460, Fritz references the 12:35 interview in the same language as is in the DPD Archives “with Inspector Kelley and some of the other officers and myself”.

He asks Oswald about the different places he lived in an attempt to find out where the picture was made of him holding a rifle. This is a copy of the version in Box 15 of the DPD Archives

 

6) CE 2003 (24H beginning at page 195)) - Dallas Police Department file on investigation of the assassination of the President (CD 81b, all pages). The Interrogation of Lee Harvey Oswald begins on page 264 of this Exhibit and takes up 13 pages. Page 268 covers the 12:35 Interrogation. Uses the same language, “with Inspector Kelley and some of the other officers and myself”.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1140#relPageId=285&tab=page

 

In the DPD Archives there is an Index Page, by an unknown author. Index page from notebook containing an inventory of information related to the investigation of the assassination and related cases - under index letter"t", (Original), date unknown
Box 6, Folder# 1, Item# 78 page 3 Gives the Times of Questioning Oswald.
This list includes the 12:35 – 1:10 PM Interrogation.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box6.htm


This page is not included in CD 81, page 632. (Either on pp. 631 or 633)
Compare CD 81 page 632 to DPD Archives Box 6, Folder#1, Item# 78 page 3
In CD 81 there is a large gap between November 22nd and November 24th. November 23rd is missing.

 

This is a problem because the officers were not dispatched to Irving to searh the garage and find the pictures until 1:10 PM and didn’t arrive back to DPD Headquarters with the pictures until 4:30 PM or so.

 

I believe that at some point, someone went into the Dallas Police Department and made a conscious effort to remove traces of Oswald's Interrogation at 12:35 on Saturday, November 23, 1963. I don't know who this was, but they succeeded in eliminating or changing some things, but failed in others. I don't know if they were: a) clumsy or inept; or, b) didn't know all the places they needed to check; or, c) ran out of time.

 

As to why someone would want to eliminate traces of the 12:35 Interrogation, some have suggested that in his reports of the Interrogation, Fritz writes about asking Oswald about the picture of him with a rifle, at least four hours before it was officially found in the Irving St. garage and brought back to police headquarters at about 4:30 PM. I think it is also possible that something was discussed at that 12:35 meeting that no one wanted disclosed Throughout the versions of the Interrogation, Fritz says that only Inspector Kelly and myself were present, alomg with some other officers, but he never names who they were. Officers like Turner and Senkel, who would normally have been present make no mention of this 12:35 Interrogation in their Reports.

 

I believe that either:

a) Oswald was being questioned about the pictures before they had officially been found; or,
b) The 12:35 Interview had nothing to do with the pictures, but was about something else.

 

Steve Thomas

[David Josephs]

I post this Steve as the links to that Archive are all broken...  they moved all that to the larger Dallas archives.  It can still be found of course... but the xl sheet I had with links to all this evidence is now worthless...  luckily where they are now is actually a bit easier to search...  whether everything made it over as it should, who knows.

3 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

On page 9 of this Box 15 version, the 12:35 time has been crossed out, and 6:00 PM has been written in.