10 Disturbing Parallels Between John Lennon’s Assassination and JFK, RFK and MLK

[Joe Bauer]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:15 AM, Pamela Brown said:

Most compelling are the descriptions of Yoko, who, apparently, had to fight her way out of a mental asylum, ... 

Is this true?

It always seemed to me that Yoko had much more mental control over John than most even contemplated.

To a degree it all seemed kind of creepy.

 

[Pamela Brown]

6 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Is this true?

It always seemed to me that Yoko had much more mental control over John than most even contemplated.

To a degree it all seemed kind of creepy.

 

I agree...maybe even more creepy than we realize...

[Pamela Brown]

If we were to start with the hypothesis that John Lennon had been turned into little more than a 'mind-controlled zombie', not simply by drugs he knowingly consumed, but first and foremost by substances that he injested without his knowledge or permission, how would we then view the years of this 'nowhere man' and his assassination?

Might we see the "Nowhere Man" as a deliberate cover-up of what happened to him? So that we won't care? So that we won't ask questions? And what if we see Yoko as orchestrating this cover-up?

In addition, if this hypothesis has merit, it follows that those John thought of as friends may have had some understanding of what happened to him and done nothing to. help...

Which would mean that while John had 'everything in the world' he was living through a nightmare...sensing on some level that there was no one he could trust... 

Edited January 24 by Pamela Brown

[Robert Burrows]

Phil Spector on John Lennon's assassination...

 

https://youtu.be/d91OevA-7_A?si=Fyy0E--hTCic1bIS

Edited January 22 by Robert Burrows

[Michael Griffith]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:53 AM, David Whelan said:

The ten disturbing parallels between John Lennon’s assassination and the assassinations of JFK, RFK and MLK.

https://davidwhelan.substack.com/p/10-disturbing-parallels-between-john

I recently watched the Apple TV documentary John Lennon: Murder without a Trial, and then read Jack Jones’ book Let Me Take You Down: Inside the Mind of Mark David Chapman, the Man Who Killed John Lennon. This has prompted me to return to this thread to comment on your alleged parallels between Lennon’s death and the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations.

I’m not going to discuss all 10 of your alleged parallels because some of them are so general and/or lame that they don’t merit discussion, but I will address six of them. I’ll start with the erroneous claim that Chapman, like Sirhan Sirhan, did not remember shooting Lennon.

3. The alleged murderer of John Lennon could not coherently remember what he had done and how he did it. Sirhan Sirhan does not recall shooting RFK.

This is false, and it is hard to understand how you could make this claim. Chapman clearly recalled shooting Lennon. His recollections were recorded. He recalled sitting on the curb, seeing a black limo pull up to the building. He recalled seeing Yoko Ono and then Lennon emerge from the limo. He recalled walking 6 feet toward Lennon. He recalled taking the gun out of his pocket, aiming at Lennon, and firing at him. In one interview, Chapman said he “took the gun out of my pocket and aimed at him and just fired away, all five shots.” In another interview, he recalled that “I took five steps and fired five shots.”

In fact, shortly after the shooting, Chapman acknowledged to the police that he had shot Lennon, and he added that he had been tracking Lennon “for a while.”  

In interviews that Chapman gave years later, he admitted that he began thinking about killing Lennon shortly after he read the book John Lennon: One Day at a Time months before he flew to NYC to kill Lennon. He also recalled how he lied when he bought his gun and how he lied to his wife and mother about why he was going to NYC.

Obviously, this bears no resemblance to Sirhan, who (1) did not even know he had fired at RFK until he was told he had done so after he was arrested, and (2) never claimed he had planned on shooting RFK. To this day, Sirhan has no memory of what he did during the shooting. This is the exact opposite of Mark Chapman.

So your theory that Chapman was a hypno-programmed killer, much less ala Sirhan, is clearly wrong.

9. Mark Chapman travelled the world on a Janitor’s salary. James Earl Ray, a petty thief, travelled the world after he allegedly shot MLK.

This is ridiculous. Chapman stayed in a dingy room at a YMCA hostel for most of the time he was in NYC before he shot Lennon. He had to go long periods without food there because he didn’t want to use up all the money that his father-in-law loaned him to pay for the trip. He father-in-law loaned him $5,000, so there is no mystery about how he paid for his travels to NYC, to Georgia for ammo, back to Hawaii, and then back to NYC.

It’s not like he was a frequent flyer or a world traveler. He was able to go on a vacation to the Far East and Europe in 1978 because he had saved up some money, because his father had given him $1,000 as a Christmas gift, and because he borrowed money from the credit union at the hospital where he worked. He was able to take a six-week leave of absence from his job for the trip. For most of his trip, he stayed at YMCA hostels. There is no mystery about how he paid for this trip.

2. John Lennon was shot in the front. The official narrative says he was shot in the back.

The autopsy report says he was shot from behind. The ER doctor and nurses did not do the autopsy. They were trying to revive Lennon. They opened his chest so the doctor could massage the heart. I’m not sure how they were qualified to make a shot-direction determination under those circumstances.

If the ER doctor and nurses believed Lennon was shot from the front, in this case I would defer to the autopsy report, given the nature of their experience with Lennon’s wounds, given the fact that Chapman immediately confessed to shooting Lennon and has repeated his confession many times over the years, and given the fact that witnesses saw Chapman shoot Lennon.

4. Strong medical and forensic evidence points to a second shooter in John Lennon’s assassination.

Only according to you. And, BTW, Chapman fired from 5-6 feet away, not 20-25 feet.

It’s worth mentioning that Chapman had a list of other targets that included Walter Cronkite, Johnny Carson, Jackie Kennedy, Marlon Brando, and George C. Scott. Now, why would the CIA or the military-industrial complex (MIC) have targeted any of these people? What threat did any of them pose to the CIA/MIC’s alleged pro-war agenda?

I should add that the government documents you cite that identify Lennon as an anti-war activist and a threat were written during the Nixon years. By December 1980, Nixon had been out of office for six years, and American troops had left South Vietnam seven years earlier.

Even John Scheinfeld, director of the far-left documentary The U.S. vs. John Lennon, rejects the idea that government forces were behind Lennon’s death, saying, “I’ve been through every FBI document in John Lennon’s file. There’s not one shred of evidence to suggest that the U.S. Government had the least interest in John after 1972” (LINK, starting at around 38:43)

5. Mark Chapman, the alleged murderer of John Lennon, was interviewed by hypnotist Bernard Diamond. Sirhan Sirhan, the alleged murderer of RFK, was interviewed by hypnotist Bernard Diamond.

More than a dozen psychologists and psychiatrists interviewed Chapman in the six months before his trial. They conducted numerous standard diagnostic tests and more than 200 hours of clinical interviews. Diamond and Kline were only two of the dozen-plus psychiatrists/psychologists who examined Chapman.

6. Bernard Diamond made Sirhan Sirhan act like a monkey under hypnosis. Mark Chapman acted like a monkey while being assessed at Rikers Island.

Wrong. Chapman did not act like this “while being assessed” at Rikers, and Diamond had nothing to do with it. You’re referring to an episode that occurred after Chapman had already pled guilty. This incident started when he was outside his cell on a recreation break, not while he was being assessed, and it involved a lot more than acting like a monkey. This is covered in the Apple TV documentary. Jack Jones discusses the incident in his book:

          Calling demons by name, he stripped naked and destroyed television sets, radios, toilet facilities, and other items on the gallery outside his Rikers Island cell. It took eight guards to bring him under control.

          Although temporarily restrained and returned to his cell, Chapman continued to cry out to the demons that danced in his brain. He climbed and hung like a beast from the bars of his cage, taunting jailers with the curses of an alien tongue. (Let Me Take You Down, Kindle edition, loc. 4286)

Occam’s Razor literally screams that there was no conspiracy involved in John Lennon’s death. Lennon was killed by Mark David Chapman, who was seriously mentally ill, who confessed to killing him right after doing so, and who has repeated his confession literally dozens of times over the years.

Edited February 2 by Michael Griffith

[Pamela Brown]

An appeal to "Occam's Razor" is a appeal to authority...

MDC killing John Lennon ergo no conspiracy falls prey to the fallacy of false alternatives...

[Joe Bauer]

To what extent was Yoko's influence over John Lennon is a question many have speculated about for decades.

I would love to know what Paul, George and Ringo "really" felt about Yoko and her relationship with John. 

I have never researched Yoko.

Obviously however, she was totally engaged with John creatively.

I guess the question of whether she had truly good and protective intentions regards John and his work or something much more "self interest" orientated will always be a debatable mystery in some ways.

 

[Michael Griffith]

5 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

An appeal to "Occam's Razor" is a appeal to authority...

MDC killing John Lennon ergo no conspiracy falls prey to the fallacy of false alternatives...

Appealing to Occam's Razor is not an appeal to authority.

Chapman confessed right after the crime and has continued to confess ever since. He is no Sirhan Sirhan--he is the exact opposite. There is nothing suspicious about Chapman's few trips. 

But, if you are determined to believe that the CIA/MIC killed Lennon, no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. 

[Joe Bauer]

Some Wiki notes regards Yoko (Ocean Child):

After living apart for several years, Ono and Ichiyanagi filed for divorce in 1962. Ono returned home to live with her parents, and, suffering from clinical depression, was briefly placed into a Japanese mental institution.^[16][32]

Early career and motherhood[edit]

On November 28, 1962, Ono married Anthony Cox, an American jazz musician, film producer, and art promoter who had been instrumental in securing her release from the mental institution.^[17 [16]

The marriage quickly fell apart, but the couple continued working together for the sake of their joint careers. They performed at Tokyo's Sogetsu Hall, with Ono lying atop a piano played by John Cage. Soon, the couple returned to New York with Kyoko. In the early years of the marriage, Ono left most of Kyoko's parenting to Cox while she pursued her art full-time, with Cox also managing her publicity.

Ono and Cox divorced on February 2, 1969, and she married John Lennon later that same year. During a 1971 custody battle, Cox disappeared with their eight-year-old daughter. He won custody after successfully claiming that Ono was an unfit mother due to her drug use.^[32] Ono's ex-husband changed Kyoko's name to "Ruth Holman" and subsequently raised the girl in an organization known as the Church of the Living Word (or "the Walk").^[36] Ono and Lennon searched for Kyoko for years, but to no avail. She would finally see Kyoko again in 1998.^[32]

Relationship with John Lennon[edit]

Yoko Ono and John Lennon when they married, March 1969

Ono's first contact with any member of the Beatles occurred when she visited Paul McCartney at his home in London to obtain a Lennon–McCartney song manuscript for a book John Cage was working on, Notations.^[37] McCartney declined to give her any of his manuscripts but suggested that Lennon might oblige.^[37] Lennon later gave Ono the original handwritten lyrics to "The Word".^[38]

Ono and Lennon first met on November 7, 1966, at the Indica Gallery in London, where she was preparing Unfinished Paintings, her conceptual art exhibit about interactive painting and sculpture. They were introduced by gallery owner John Dunbar.^[39] One piece, Ceiling Painting/Yes Painting, had a ladder painted white with a magnifying glass at the top. When Lennon climbed the ladder, he looked through the magnifying glass and was able to read the word YES which was written in miniature. He greatly enjoyed this experience as it was a positive message, whereas most concept art he encountered at the time was anti-everything.^[40]

Lennon was also intrigued by Ono's Hammer a Nail where viewers were invited to hammer a nail into a wooden board painted white. Although the exhibition had not yet opened, Lennon wanted to hammer a nail into the clean board, but Ono stopped him. Dunbar asked her, "Don't you know who this is? He's a millionaire! He might buy it." Ono feigned not knowing of the Beatles (even as she had gone to see Paul McCartney asking for a Beatle song score), but relented on the condition that Lennon pay her five shillings, to which Lennon replied, "I'll give you an imaginary five shillings and hammer an imaginary nail in."^[40][41]

In a 2002 interview, Ono said, "I was very attracted to him. It was a really strange situation."^[42] Ono started writing to Lennon, sending him her conceptual artworks, and soon the two began corresponding. In September 1967, Lennon sponsored Ono's solo Half-A-Wind Show, at Lisson Gallery in London.^[43] When Lennon's wife Cynthia asked for an explanation of why Ono was telephoning them at home, he told her that Ono was only trying to obtain money for her "avant-garde bullshit".^[44]

In early 1968, while the Beatles were making their visit to India, Lennon wrote the song "Julia" and included a reference to Ono: "Ocean child calls me", referring to the translation of Yoko's Japanese spelling.^[18] In May 1968, while his wife was on holiday in Greece, Lennon invited Ono to visit. They spent the night recording a selection of avant-garde tape loops,^[43] after which, he said, they "made love at dawn".^[45] The recordings made by the two during this session ultimately became their first collaborative album, the musique concrete work Unfinished Music No. 1: Two Virgins. When Lennon's wife returned home, she found Ono wearing her bathrobe and drinking tea with Lennon, who simply said, "Oh, hi."^[46]

On September 24 and 25, 1968, Lennon wrote and recorded "Happiness Is a Warm Gun",^[47] which contains sexual references to Ono. Ono became pregnant, but had a miscarriage on November 21, 1968, a few weeks after Lennon's divorce from Cynthia was granted.^[

Early collaborations, marriage and "Bed-ins"[edit]

Main articles: Bed-In, Give Peace a Chance, Bagism, and Unfinished Music No. 1: Two Virgins

Lennon and Ono at a Bed-in at Hilton Amsterdam, March 1969

During the final two years of the Beatles, Lennon and Ono created and attended public protests against the Vietnam War. They collaborated on a series of avant-garde recordings, beginning in 1968 with Unfinished Music No.1: Two Virgins, which notoriously featured an unretouched image of the two artists nude on the front cover.

During the Amsterdam Bed In press conference, Yoko also earned controversy in the Jewish community for saying during the press conference that, "If I was a Jewish girl in Hitler's day, I would approach him and become his girlfriend. After 10 days in bed, he would come to my way of thinking. This world needs communication. And making love is a great way of communicating."^[58] It was acknowledged that some Nazis, including Nazi "First Lady" Magda Goebbels, had Jewish lovers at one point in their lives.^[58]

 

 

 

The Dakota, Ono's residence from 1973 to 2023

After the Beatles disbanded in 1970, Ono and Lennon lived together in London and then moved permanently to Manhattan to escape tabloid racism towards Ono.^[76] Their relationship became strained because Lennon was facing deportation due to drug charges that had been filed against him in England, and because of Ono's separation from her daughter. The couple separated in July 1973, with Ono pursuing her career and Lennon living between Los Angeles and New York with personal assistant May Pang; Ono had given her blessing to Lennon and Pang's relationship.^[77][78]

By December 1974, Lennon and Pang considered buying a house together, and he refused to accept Ono's phone calls. The next month, Lennon agreed to meet Ono, who claimed to have found a cure for smoking. After the meeting, Lennon failed to return home or call Pang. When she telephoned the next day, Ono told her Lennon was unavailable, because he was exhausted after a hypnotherapy session. Two days later, Lennon reappeared at a joint dental appointment with Pang; he was stupefied and confused to such an extent that Pang believed he had been brainwashed. He told her his separation from Ono was now over, though Ono would allow him to continue seeing her as his mistress.^[79]

[Robert Reeves]

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

Appealing to Occam's Razor is not an appeal to authority.

Chapman confessed right after the crime and has continued to confess ever since. He is no Sirhan Sirhan--he is the exact opposite. There is nothing suspicious about Chapman's few trips. 

But, if you are determined to believe that the CIA/MIC killed Lennon, no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. 

So if the main suspect in the assassination of almost all the prominent political assassinations discussed on this forum of the 50's 60's 70's etc is the CIA. Using Occam's Razor we should easily conclude that there is a very high degree of certainty the CIA had a hand in the removal of their policy opponents, surely?

Do I have to copy and paste a lengthy list of CIA political assassinations to backup this? let alone the very interesting techniques perfected by the CIA to achieve these aims.

Or do you dispute the CIA is the suspected force behind the admitted murders of its foes?

 

 

 

 

 

[Pamela Brown]

On 2/2/2024 at 12:52 PM, Michael Griffith said:

Appealing to Occam's Razor is not an appeal to authority.

***It is. You just said it yourself. Here is a definition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Chapman confessed right after the crime and has continued to confess ever since. He is no Sirhan Sirhan--he is the exact opposite. There is nothing suspicious about Chapman's few trips. 

***Your opinion. You are entitled. I think you are mistaken.

But, if you are determined to believe that the CIA/MIC killed Lennon, no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise. 

***Care to provide a quote for my saying that?

 

Edited February 4 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

On 2/2/2024 at 3:25 PM, Robert Reeves said:

So if the main suspect in the assassination of almost all the prominent political assassinations discussed on this forum of the 50's 60's 70's etc is the CIA. Using Occam's Razor we should easily conclude that there is a very high degree of certainty the CIA had a hand in the removal of their policy opponents, surely?

Do I have to copy and paste a lengthy list of CIA political assassinations to backup this? let alone the very interesting techniques perfected by the CIA to achieve these aims.

Or do you dispute the CIA is the suspected force behind the admitted murders of its foes?

 

 

 

 

 

It is correct to say that there is even a fallacy within Occam's Razor. For one, who can define 'simply'? That is vague. 

For another, the most 'simple' solution is not necessarily the best solution...

[Pamela Brown]

On 1/16/2024 at 1:07 PM, Joe Bauer said:

Is this true?

It always seemed to me that Yoko had much more mental control over John than most even contemplated.

To a degree it all seemed kind of creepy.

 

What if we take as a working hypothesis that Yoko was an agent and John the target? 

[Michael Griffith]

On 1/22/2024 at 4:24 AM, Robert Burrows said:

Phil Spector on John Lennon's assassination...

https://youtu.be/d91OevA-7_A?si=Fyy0E--hTCic1bIS

I think Spector's take is ridiculous. The "perfect time" to have gotten rid of John Lennon would have been shortly after he became a leading figure in the anti-Vietnam War movement, not in December 1980. One of the facts that cries out against this whacky conspiracy theory is that there was no conceivable, rational motive for the CIA/MIC to assassinate Lennon in December 1980. 

This Lennon assassination conspiracy theory is the poster child for the kinds of zany, irrational conspiracy theories that critics accuse us of concocting. Pushing this theory hands our critics powerful ammo on a silver platter.

There are no credible parallels between Mark David Chapman and either Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, or Lee Harvey Oswald. Chapman not only immediately confessed his crime but pled guilty to the shooting in a court of law. He remembered his crime in considerable detail; he still remembers it; and he has never denied it. There is no mystery about how Chapman paid for his few travels. Chapman has provided a plausible motive for his action. And Chapman was clearly mentally disturbed during the months leading up to his shooting of Lennon and for many months afterward. 

[Robert Reeves]

This photo appears on Facebook as ''Frank-Sturgis and Jose-Sanjenis-Perdomo''

So what's the deep dive? anyone have a clue?