Pamela Brown Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) As far as a possible motive for Chapman is concerned, I hope this is something you will consider...as food for thought...I have linked it to the end of this Bob Dylan thread... This thread is only about David's book... Edited December 29, 2023 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Mellor Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 On 12/25/2023 at 6:09 PM, Pamela Brown said: David pontificates far and wide, imo, in his distress over John having been rushed to cremation, and cremated at all, as that was against John's wishes...without, however, mentioning where the cremation took place...pp 176-178 Also, in David's 'recap' on pp 186-187 he mentions the rush to John's cremation without citing just where it took place... Why is that? Is David being intentionally vague, or does he not know? Would revealing the location give us information he does not want his readers to have? If so, why? Not sure what you are getting at. What information do you think could be revealing with regards to the location of a cremation? It was at the Ferncliff Crematorium, Hartsdale, N.Y. Attended by Yoko's employed security guard Doug McDougall. Disturbingly, after years of close shadowing of Lennon and suspected phone tapping by the FBI, Yoko employed McDougall who was ex-FBI. Interestingly, he and other security personnel, all managed by Yoko, all not on duty on 8th December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Pete Mellor said: Not sure what you are getting at. What information do you think could be revealing with regards to the location of a cremation? It was at the Ferncliff Crematorium, Hartsdale, N.Y. Attended by Yoko's employed security guard Doug McDougall. Disturbingly, after years of close shadowing of Lennon and suspected phone tapping by the FBI, Yoko employed McDougall who was ex-FBI. Interestingly, he and other security personnel, all managed by Yoko, all not on duty on 8th December. Apologies for not being clear. On what page does David mention Ferncliff by name? Edited December 29, 2023 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Whelan Posted December 29, 2023 Author Share Posted December 29, 2023 Pamela, firstly, thank you for buying my book. I am sorry you do not appear to like certain aspects of it, but this can only be expected. To address your persistent cremation complaint. On Page 170, my book has an image of a note sent from the the crematorium that was clearly used for John's body. The note is titled 'Crematorium Note'. The note is inserted into a paragraph about John's cremation. On the note, it clearly states that the note is from - Ferncliff Crematorium, Hartsdale, N.Y. Though I do not repeat the address in further chapters that mention John's cremation, I would like to think readers are smart enough to remember the original reference on the note without having it spelt out to them again. I am sure if you keep scanning my book, you will find other bits of information that in your opinion could be made clearer. But I'm not sure anyone else particularly needs you to point these out for them on this thread. I'm sure people can critique my book all by themselves. I respect your right to have an opinion about John Lennon's murder having something to do with Bob Dylan and I also have the right to respectfully dismiss it. You clearly have great passion for your theory, so can I suggest you start your own thread about it. Maybe you could also write a book about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, David Whelan said: Pamela, firstly, thank you for buying my book. I am sorry you do not appear to like certain aspects of it, but this can only be expected. To address your persistent cremation complaint. On Page 170, my book has an image of a note sent from the the crematorium that was clearly used for John's body. The note is titled 'Crematorium Note'. The note is inserted into a paragraph about John's cremation. On the note, it clearly states that the note is from - Ferncliff Crematorium, Hartsdale, N.Y. Though I do not repeat the address in further chapters that mention John's cremation, I would like to think readers are smart enough to remember the original reference on the note without having it spelt out to them again. I am sure if you keep scanning my book, you will find other bits of information that in your opinion could be made clearer. But I'm not sure anyone else particularly needs you to point these out for them on this thread. I'm sure people can critique my book all by themselves. I respect your right to have an opinion about John Lennon's murder having something to do with Bob Dylan and I also have the right to respectfully dismiss it. You clearly have great passion for your theory, so can I suggest you start your own thread about it. Maybe you could also write a book about it. Thank you, David, for your quick response. I appreciate that Ferncliff is actually mentioned, albeit cryptically, (eg could the type be any smaller?) in your book. It is not, however, listed in your index. Neither, for that matter, is the Campbell Funeral Home, where John's body was taken after it left Roosevelt Hospital. Why is that? And no, I don't think the readers -- especially the newbies -- are going to figure out where John was cremated on their own without it being pointed out to them. They might just figure he was 'conveniently' cremated in NYC, rather than 40 miles away in Westchester County, don't you think? Edited December 29, 2023 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Whelan Posted December 29, 2023 Author Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Pamela Brown said: Thank you, David, for your quick response. I appreciate that Ferncliff is actually mentioned, albeit cryptically, in your book. It is not, however, listed in your index. Neither, for that matter, is the Campbell Funeral Home, where John's body was taken after it left Roosevelt Hospital. Why is that? And no, I don't think the readers -- especially the newbies -- are going to figure out where John was cremated on their own without it being pointed out to them. They might just figure he was cremated in NYC, don't you think? Good luck with your theories Pamela. Im not going to waste any further time discussing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, David Whelan said: Good luck with your theories Pamela. Im not going to waste any further time discussing this. Apologies, David, if I gave you the impression I wanted to hijack the thread. Not so. I initially posted the link in response to a request for a possible motive for Chapman earlier in the thread. This is your thread. I have moved it to another thread for discussion.. Edited December 29, 2023 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Rigby Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Some useful background: Youtube channel - Strange History X Discovering the photographic evidence of Where John Lennon Was Shot https://youtu.be/CXmu7XjV_tI?si=aMnrmiqy7i5Vypmj The Shocking Truth Behind John Lennon's Tragic End https://youtu.be/95yoMNx88WY?si=ud0iLxEND5EwiTav Exploring The Dakota, NYC's Most Famous Apartment Building https://youtu.be/ASIVlthXzVA?si=EExN_GfcrPP0awo_ John Lennon's Home. The Dakota's Ground Floor Blueprint. https://youtu.be/6dDuU793U1Y?si=hO2mLBplpWM1RMtV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) I think most curious persons think Lennon's death "could have been" initiated by highest level nefarious political forces who saw Lennon and his music as a threat to their interests. Why not? After JFK, RFK, MLK and Malcom X were taken out like they were... no one totally trusted the government after that alternate social change policy promoting leadership slaughter. And Lennon's music was truly effecting the mind sets of tens of millions of young Americans. And not in the traditional power accumulation framework way Eisenhower described in his MIC warning speech. "Give Peace A Chance." "Imagine." "Imagine all the people Living for today Ah, ah, ah-ah Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion, too Imagine all the people Living life in peace Yoo-hoo, ooh-ooh You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world Yoo-hoo, ooh-ooh You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one." JFK talked of peace too. And in defense of our long time intrepid JFK limo expert forum icon Pamela Brown. She's doing what the forum encourages imo. Respectful debate and questioning of others research propositions. Edited December 30, 2023 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 On 12/30/2023 at 11:15 AM, Joe Bauer said: I think most curious persons think Lennon's death "could have been" initiated by highest level nefarious political forces who saw Lennon and his music as a threat to their interests. Why not? After JFK, RFK, MLK and Malcom X were taken out like they were... no one totally trusted the government after that alternate social change policy promoting leadership slaughter. And Lennon's music was truly effecting the mind sets of tens of millions of young Americans. And not in the traditional power accumulation framework way Eisenhower described in his MIC warning speech. "Give Peace A Chance." "Imagine." "Imagine all the people Living for today Ah, ah, ah-ah Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion, too Imagine all the people Living life in peace Yoo-hoo, ooh-ooh You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world Yoo-hoo, ooh-ooh You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one." JFK talked of peace too. And in defense of our long time intrepid JFK limo expert forum icon Pamela Brown. She's doing what the forum encourages imo. Respectful debate and questioning of others research propositions. Thank you, Joe. And tonight New York City belongs to John Lennon, as we will all will sing along with Imagine just before the ball drops... Happy New Year everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fite Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 On 12/30/2023 at 6:15 PM, Joe Bauer said: I think most curious persons think Lennon's death "could have been" initiated by highest level nefarious political forces who saw Lennon and his music as a threat to their interests. Just to be the devil's advocate here Wouldn't * Harry Chapin w his eliminate hunger campaign have been more of a threat in 1980 and his death (by car burning up on the highway) be just as mysterious? Chapin was a real social warrior. * Mick Jagger with his Street Fighting Man lyrics ("now the time is right for a palace revolution") and marching in the London anti-Vietnam war demonstrations in 1968 while Lennon stayed home or in bed be more of a threat than Lennon? (even tho by 1980 neither were a threat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) On 12/30/2023 at 10:04 AM, Paul Rigby said: Some useful background: Youtube channel - Strange History X Discovering the photographic evidence of Where John Lennon Was Shot https://youtu.be/CXmu7XjV_tI?si=aMnrmiqy7i5Vypmj The Shocking Truth Behind John Lennon's Tragic End https://youtu.be/95yoMNx88WY?si=ud0iLxEND5EwiTav Exploring The Dakota, NYC's Most Famous Apartment Building https://youtu.be/ASIVlthXzVA?si=EExN_GfcrPP0awo_ John Lennon's Home. The Dakota's Ground Floor Blueprint. https://youtu.be/6dDuU793U1Y?si=hO2mLBplpWM1RMtV Hello Paul, Thank you for the links... It does make sense to me that when John Lennon initially arrived in the US, he was perceived as a major threat to the establishment. That being the case, if this was the motive for assassinating him, why wait until after he had been pretty much changing diapers for the last five years? There was no war, no motivation... Might we discover something new threat John represented that David is bringing to the public for the first time? Edited January 1 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Still reading Mind Games. One thing I am noticing is that it keeps you guessing... So far, it seems that the motive for John's being assassinated is still. hidden in documents not yet released, for example...though there are tantalizing allusions to nameless individuals at a high level in the area of extreme Christianity that found John to be a threat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 What I am sensing at this point is that Mind Games is true to its title. It is a Mind Game. You can go crazy looking for cites (there are none, but there are oblique references that you have to search out.) You won't find any answers per se, because the objective of the book is to create a groundswell of horror at the lack of information available to the public, and thus to demand once and for all, that everything is released. Most compelling are the descriptions of Yoko, who, apparently, had to fight her way out of a mental asylum, and Mark Chapman who is being held hostage in prison by mind-controllers who are making sure he doesn't really talk. If you are comfortable just rolling along with Mind Games and not getting discouraged by the endless dead-ends, you will find yourself with more questions than you ever thought possible... And perhaps even a conviction to move forward and make demands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) Perhaps, until/should, David decide to return, this thread can be used to continue a discussion of the assassination of John Lennon... For the moment, I would just like to focus on the coverup. It seems obvious to me that the "Nowhere Man" represents the coverup of, not only the murder of John Lennon, but what was happening in his life prior to that tragedy. It seems to me, reading "Nowhere Man" by Robert Rosen, that this fabrication may have been initiated and promulgated with the help of Yoko... Interestingly, David seems to tantalize us with the possibility that Yoko might have had foreknowledge of what was going to happen to John, but then backs away from that... Edited January 16 by Pamela Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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