Posner Interview with Hindsight History

[Gerry Down]

During a recent interview with Hindsight History, Gerald Posner brought up three interesting points:

1. 57 Minutes to 1 Hour 1 Minute: Posner demonstrates that the story of the limo being washed at Parkland hospital is a myth and in fact only the drivers seat was washed in order to enable the limo to be driven back to Love Field to be flown back to Washington.
2. 1 Hour 13 Minutes: Tippit possibly did not believe Oswald was a suspect when he stopped Oswald because the protocol when stopping a suspect was to radio it in to inform DPD HQ that you were stopping a suspect. Tippit did not do this. This opens the possibility that Oswald was simply doing something odd that caused Tippit to stop him rather than believing he was a suspect in the JFK assassination. 
3. 1 Hour 24 minutes: Posner points out that Texas had a law in 1963 called "Murder without malice" which had a 5 year max sentence. One motivation in Ruby killing Oswald may have been that Ruby might have thought he would simply get 5 years max for the murder but have the rest of his life to be a hero for the feat. This would also explain why his lawyer might have encouraged him to say he killed Oswald for Mrs Kennedys sake. This would make it look like Ruby had been overcome with emotion and so there had been no planning to the murder. 

Here is the interview:

 

[Charles Blackmon]

So according to Posner that makes it ok that the SS destroyed evidence in the limo?  So they could drive it rather than have it towed or otherwise transported? Ridiculous. Not worth a look.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Charles Blackmon

[Jonathan Cohen]

34 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

So according to Posner that makes it ok that the SS destroyed evidence in the limo?  So they could drive it rather than have it towed or otherwise transported? Ridiculous. Not worth a look.

Did he say it was "OK" to "destroy evidence" ? No... he said that only a portion of the limousine's interior was cleaned, as opposed to the entire car.

[Rich Taylor]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Did he say it was "OK" to "destroy evidence" ? No... he said that only a portion of the limousine's interior was cleaned, as opposed to the entire car.

As is shown by the white house garage backseat photos after gg300 was returned to washington following the assassination....if thats a cleanup, they missed a lot there is still a lot of gore on that seat.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Did he say it was "OK" to "destroy evidence" ? No... he said that only a portion of the limousine's interior was cleaned, as opposed to the entire car.

 

It doesn't matter how much of the gore and blood was cleaned up. Any of it cleaned up was destroyed evidence.

 

[Michael Crane]

[Jonathan Cohen]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

It doesn't matter how much of the gore and blood was cleaned up. Any of it cleaned up was destroyed evidence.

Nobody is disputing that, so your comment is of no value here. As I pointed out previously, Posner is only making the distinction to show how claims of the ENTIRE limo interior being cleaned are false.

[Greg Doudna]

On the cleaning and the bucket of the limo outside Parkland, I don't remember where I got this but my memory is someone from the scene explained that bucket in the photo had no water in it, that bucket had nothing to do with cleaning, but was holding parts or screws or whatever involved in getting the top put back on. Posner thinks it was a bucket of water for cleaning, an intent to clean, that in the chaos did not happen. I noticed that for the front seat, Posner says it "must" have been later cleaned enough at the drivers seat so the limo could be driven. But even that "must have" seems to be only an inference, possible but not directly confirmed, on the part of Posner rather than--apparently--from testimony. (I would think more likely a driver might put a newspaper or wrapping paper or something over the seat if necessary to sit and drive--to protect the driver's own clothes--rather than actually clean the seat, in light of the evidence-preservation consideration.) But the main point of Posner, surely correct, is that it is a myth based on the photo showing the bucket that the limo was washed at Parkland.  

[Gerry Down]

One would have to question how dirty the front seats were in any case. Blood and brain matter did land on the backs of the two secret service agents in the front seat, but the area they were sitting on should have remained clean except maybe for the area of seat in the middle between the two agents.

[Sandy Larsen]

7 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Nobody is disputing that,....

 

It is implied.

 

7 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

....so your comment is of no value here. As I pointed out previously, Posner is only making the distinction to show how claims of the ENTIRE limo interior being cleaned are false.

 

Critics of the investigation point out that evidence was destroyed because the limo was cleaned. Posner points out that it was only the seat that was cleaned. And I point out that Posner's revelation doesn't change the fact that the critics are right, that evidence was destroyed.

 

[Joe Bauer]

7 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

One would have to question how dirty the front seats were in any case. Blood and brain matter did land on the backs of the two secret service agents in the front seat, but the area they were sitting on should have remained clean except maybe for the area of seat in the middle between the two agents.

Good point.

There probably wasn't any blood on the front seats. Now the seat under JFK and Jackie?  Now that was a bloody mess.

Posner's credibility was famously shot when he claimed David Ferrie and Lee Harvey Oswald had no past connection at all and then the CAP Cadet camp out photo came out showing young Lee right there among the other boys in Ferrie's troop.

How embarrassing to have a major claim in your first JFKA book totally debunked like that.

[Michael Griffith]

Yikes, how can anyone still cite Posner on the JFK case in 2023?

Mind you, this is the same Gerald Posner who claims that the Tague curb mark and Tague facial cut were caused by the lead core of an FMJ bullet that separated from its copper jacketing after hitting a limb of the oak tree on Elm Street. Posner says that the first bullet struck a limb of the oak tree, that its lead core separated from its metal jacketing, and that this lead core traveled in a straight line to the curb over 400 feet away, somehow striking the curb with enough force to send a concrete fragment streaking toward Tague with sufficient velocity to cut Tague's face.

Moreover, consider this stark contradiction: Posner would have us believe that striking a tree limb caused the first FMJ bullet's lead core to separate from its jacket. However, Posner also says that the next FMJ bullet supposedly tore through Kennedy's neck, plowed through Connally's back, smashed three rib bones, shattered a hard wrist bone, and then penetrated Connally's thigh, yet this FMJ bullet not only did not separate but emerged with its lands and grooves intact, with no damage to its nose, and with no more than 4 grains lost from its substance.

 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

 let's not forget that fragments were found in the front of the limo. who knows what evidence was washed away if this is what happened.  

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Lawrence Schnapf said:

 let's not forget that fragments were found in the front of the limo. who knows what evidence was washed away if this is what happened.  

Fragments of bone?

Or fragments of a bullet or bullets?

Since the bullet which reportedly went through JFK and John Connally was found virtually intact...any bullet fragments found in the front seat area ( on the floor or seat itself?) must have come from the JFK head shot, correct?

That bullet went through thick skull bone upon entering JFK's head and did so again upon exiting, and in so doing exploded large flaps of skull bone outward as well as a huge cloud of pink colored blood and brain matter spray outward and upward that was so condensed it is easily visible in stills of the Zapruder film.

How could anything left from that head shot bullet clear the Connolly's, the steel bar separating the rear seat area from the front seat area and then simply drop down onto the front seat area?

Or, could any shell fragments found on the front seat floor have been from another bullet that hit the inner, upper windshield frame and left a finger tip sized and deep indentation with twisted surrounding metal in that steel frame?

Edited July 7, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Lawrence Schnapf]

@Joe Bauer two bullet fragments were found in the front of the limo