USAF COL. Prouty, Operation BLOODSTONE, SS-Obersturmbannführer Skorzeny, & the murder of President Kennedy...

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Ben - if you are referring to Biden, let’s add Trump to that moniker. 

Sure, with some modifications. 

But that is your response?

The blue-red kool-aid pissing wars?

Trump was a true outsider (a ridiculous TV-show host) with zero institutional, party-establishment, or globalist support in DC, and little media backing (Fox for a while) and soon enough run out of town on a rail.

This does not make Trump a nice guy, in fact he may be borderline insane. 

Biden is a long, long, long time intel-globalist apparatchik, I mean 50-year track record.  He is only president due to party establishment backing and skullduggery (the torpedoed Bernie Sanders) and then an intel-state Op Mock, media and state-prosecutorial war on Trump. 

The phony Russiagate follies hoax, and Jan. 6 TV show kangaroo court. 

The entirely unlikeable Trump extended the JFK Records deadline, fearful of something, or stupid, or making a transactional deal, or who knows what. But Trump is not part of the intel-state, in fact they waged a rather obvious campaign to rid the White House of Trump. 

Biden did a permanent snuff job---the JFK Records are dead, as we speak. Biden is protecting that to which he belongs. 

You are saying a Nazified-CIA murdered JFK. And Biden---who has been in town for 50 years--- and chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and who was veep, is covering that up.  

Biden may or may not know anymore what he is doing, but somewhere along the line he must have been briefed, or heard, the true story of the JFKA. 

I doubt Trump was ever told anything. 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

David,

    I'm responding to your latest comments in red (below.)

   Also, Montenegro's argument that Prouty never spoke in specific terms about who killed JFK is misleading, as is his lame reference to Sympathy for the Devil.

   If I understand his books correctly, Prouty was never a CIA/Secret Team insider.  So, much of his writing about JFK, the CIA, and Vietnam was based on inferences-- from his perspective as a JFK era USAF liaison to the CIA.

David Josephs wrote:

 

Again... PROUTY was not a JFK admin insider...  why can't you acknowledge same? 

Again, David, what is it about my comment that Prouty was a JFK era Deep State insider that you still don't understand?  You're splitting semantic hairs.

Certainly, Prouty was involved in writing the McNamara Taylor Report for JFK.  Have you read either of Prouty's books?

And like @Robert Montenegro I am not tearing him down, he has indeed exposed information that helps cleanse his conscience while adding debunking material to the already huge mountain of such against the WCR.

There is now a huge mountain of material debunking the WCR.  How much of it was written by JFK era Deep State insiders-- as opposed to outside researchers like Sylvia Meagher, Mark Lane, Jim Garrison?

As to your inability to offer JFK Admin Deep Insiders names AT ALL, let alone if they debunked the WCR or not, is a nice side-step.  I assume you are aware of the book and articles that have been written over the years attacking the WCR and showing it for what it really was...

And which of them were written by JFK era Deep State insiders within 30 years of JFK's assassination?

Meanwhile, reports of my alleged "inability to identify JFK admin Deep insiders" have been greatly exaggerated.

My point (above) is that it makes more sense to begin with a short list of any JFK insiders who debunked the WCR.

Your list is extremely short, at best.

Would Daniel Elsberg count even though his revelations are only at the fringe of the Ass'n?

What did Ellsberg ever write about the JFKA?

We might put Hale Boggs and Richard Russell on the list, but their dissent was muted.

If you can't even name a dozen or so of these "insiders" what's the point of my taking time to dig them up for you... 

Huh?  What's the point of digging up the names of people who never stuck their necks out to expose the WCR fraudulence?

What you seem to be trying to prove is that PROUTY was the only one... even though he was not one of the "insiders" based on the modifiers you added.

Go back and check on those modifiers.

You can dig into who and why the WCRT was debunked on your own... there is probably 10 years of reading on this site alone showing every aspect of the WCR & HSCA reports as the junk they were... Even Blakey admits it.

Insiders?  People who were working in military and other JFK administrative circles-- as opposed to outside researchers?

How about SPRAGUE?  Too late to be a JFK deep state insider?

KRULAK had cold feet?   makes one wonder.. PROUTY was in bed with these men for decades and is one of the only vocal detractors...  Feeding and/or exposing info that supports the myriad of onion layer cover stories and keeping people focused "over there" while the real crimes were perpetrated "over here" is not something in the best interest of the 2 entities he served?  C'mon man.

C'mon, man.  You still don't get it.  If Prouty was interested in hiding information about the JFK assassination, why didn't he simply leave the WCR narrative alone-- letting sleeping dogs lie?

And I bet you still think the Zapruder film is THE definitive record and timing of the assassination.  I've got this bridge I can sell you too... 

I'm aware that C.D. Jackson's Z film was tampered with by the company, from the beginning.

You can keep your bridge.

Finally - what makes you think ANYONE meeting your description would throw themselves and their benefactors under the bus by overtly exposing the reality of the assassination?

Because Prouty was a man of integrity-- genuinely concerned about the rogue black ops of the CIA, the CIA hijacking of American democracy on 11/22/63, and the reversal of the NSAM263 policy that he was involved in formulating?

Have you even bothered to read thru the ARRB ...  Dr. HUMES (insider?) is finally nailed down and debunks his own WCR testimony about the start of the autopsy and the arrival of JFK... while an empty hearse sat at the front of Bethesda...  Many others describe the in-process autopsy as the empty casket pulls up to the front of the hospital.

SIbert and O'Neill finally came clean telling us THEY brought in casket at 7:17 after Humes lets us know he had been with JFK's body since 6:30.

Good for them.  Good for anyone who tried to expose the JFK assassination op.

How much debunking do you want W?  You want McNamara and Bundy to come out and say yes, we did it because the cabal forced us to change NSAM 263, keep the wars going and remove the dreadful PEACE POTUS from office?

The more debunking the merrier.   Why didn't McNamara and Bundy have the integrity and the cajones to tell America the truth early on?  They were all afraid.

What are you trying to do here W?  Show your work

Huh?  What are you trying to do here, David, turn a history debate into an ad hominem pissing contest?

This isn't about me.  It's about Fletcher Prouty and his proper place in history.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[David Josephs]

39 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

This isn't about me.  It's about Fletcher Prouty and his proper place in history.

Yes indeed.  

Exposing the layers of the onion rather than the rotten core.  The ONLY ONE the MICC has allowed to shed light on that terrible event without horrific retribution.  

Zapruder gets $16M and his film defines the assassination, despite it being a hoax.

Bolden opens his mouth and is set up on criminal charges.
Yates opens his mouth and is institutionalized until his death 11 years later
Specter becomes a Senator

I'm sorry you don't follow what we are doing here at this forum W.

PS kinda like UFOs.  Say they are Aliens from another world and you have no worries.  Say they are a cover story, an elaborate hoax by the CIA/MICC for advanced technology (cause, y'know the MICC research is light years ahead of commercially available tech, right?) and there are no such things as UFOs, and now you're a crackpot.
or
The tooth fairy is a cover story we tell kids so losing teeth is not so scary... money shows up so they believe it.
We are not children putting our teeth under the pillow.. please stop treating us as such.

[Cliff Varnell]

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The Dictator-Puppet-in-Chief, through his illegal but indisputable snuff job on the JFK Records Act, is helping to cover up a Nazified-CIA JFKA? Really? Why? 

Probably for the same reason you and many others pooh-pooh possible  MKNAOMI connection to the assassination:

Y’all don’t know any better.

[W. Niederhut]

34 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Yes indeed.  

Exposing the layers of the onion rather than the rotten core.  The ONLY ONE the MICC has allowed to shed light on that terrible event without horrific retribution.  

Zapruder gets $16M and his film defines the assassination, despite it being a hoax.

Bolden opens his mouth and is set up on criminal charges.
Yates opens his mouth and is institutionalized until his death 11 years later
Specter becomes a Senator

I'm sorry you don't follow what we are doing here at this forum W.

 

Huh, David?

I'm not sure where your erroneous concepts about my analytic abilities and knowledge of history are coming from.

I majored in American Studies at Brown, like young JFK, Jr., before going to medical school in Boston.

As for this forum, I'm a latecomer to the JFK research, but I have followed the discussions on this forum fairly closely during the past few years-- and also studied the archives here.

I have always respected your analyses, but, honestly, I don't think Fletcher Prouty had a nefarious bone in his body.  (And I'm a reasonably good judge of character-- a professional even.)

Would you, at least, agree that Prouty has been targeted by a CIA smear campaign since 1992?

[Tom Gram]

5 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

That is the question. 
tom - did you see my note about Garrison files being destroyed? Let’s wait and see if Jim D has anything to add on that, and on any references he may have seen in the Garrison files that survived. Again, wasn’t Pierre Lafitte involved in that destruction of Garrison files? 

It’s true that many of Garrison’s files were destroyed, but we still have a lot, including stuff like lead sheets tracing out the status of the investigation and at least one entire folder on persons of interest from the far right. If Garrison really got so far that he was planning on accusing a specific CIA connected Nazi as a suspect I think there should be some evidence of it in his files, but it is possible that the relevant folder or something got destroyed. 

Do we have any documentation outside of the alleged datebook that Lafitte was involved in the destruction of Garrison’s files? Until the datebook is properly authenticated I don’t have any interest in it, but if there’s a credible source linking Lafitte to Harry Connick or something I’d definitely like to see it. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Tom Gram

[Leslie Sharp]

40 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

It’s true that many of Garrison’s files were destroyed, but we still have a lot, including stuff like lead sheets tracing out the status of the investigation and at least one entire folder on persons of interest from the far right. If Garrison really got so far that he was planning on accusing a specific CIA connected Nazi as a suspect I think there should be some evidence of it in his files, but it is possible that the relevant folder or something got destroyed. 

Do we have any documentation outside of the alleged datebook that Lafitte was involved in the destruction of Garrison’s files? Until the datebook is properly authenticated I don’t have any interest in it, but if there’s a credible source linking Lafitte to Harry Connick or something I’d definitely like to see it. 

@Paul Brancato @Tom Gram

TO CLARIFY, the Lafitte datebook is NOT the source of allegation that Lafitte was involved in the destruction of Garrison files.  Hank's investigation — as presented in his Frank Olson book, A Terrible Mistake — uncovered that journalist James Phelan and his buddy Lafitte broke into Garrison's office

I was contacted by Phelan's daughter after Hank passed with an admonition that we should not repeat the episode in Coup in Dallas.  I knew that she had challenged Hank previously and that he stood by the story so I advised her we would publish the M/s as Hank intended. It was my understanding that there was an internal disagreement within the Phelan family about the event. 

@Tom Gram Your lack of interest in a yet to be "officially" authenticated record of the plot as it evolved, while accepting government documents as being without reproach, seems to me rather convoluted thinking — particularly if you believe THE government had a role in killing its commander in chief? 

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

It’s true that many of Garrison’s files were destroyed, but we still have a lot, including stuff like lead sheets tracing out the status of the investigation and at least one entire folder on persons of interest from the far right. If Garrison really got so far that he was planning on accusing a specific CIA connected Nazi as a suspect I think there should be some evidence of it in his files, but it is possible that the relevant folder or something got destroyed. 

Do we have any documentation outside of the alleged datebook that Lafitte was involved in the destruction of Garrison’s files? Until the datebook is properly authenticated I don’t have any interest in it, but if there’s a credible source linking Lafitte to Harry Connick or something I’d definitely like to see it. 

@Tom Gram I hadn't planned on weighing in on a thread focused on Col. Prouty.  

However, your remark, If Garrison really got so far that he was planning on accusing a specific CIA connected Nazi as a suspect I think there should be some evidence of it in his files, but it is possible that the relevant folder or something got destroyed, is an opportunity to share the most recent research into the firm, Permindex, which features in most exposés related to Clay Shaw's possible role in prior planning of the plot for Dallas.

AS EMAILED TO MEMBERS OF OUR WORKING GROUP:

I'm going to share the following in rough draft form because I think it may pull together significant threads we've been pursuing for months and months; in time, it will conform with standards for wider publication.

 

I always thought Permindex either dissolved completely or at least slipped off the radar by 1967, having been run out of Rome and reestablished HQ in Johannesburg.

 

For this exercise, it's enough that Dr. Werner von Arx was ever associated with Permindex (see link) considering his history with an arms manufacturer for The Reich.  It's implausible that the earlier investors/board members we are most familiar with weren't aware of von Arx's history.  

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2023/104-10181-10116.pdf

 

In May 1940, a major contract with the Netherlands for over 500 anti-tank guns with accessories failed because the Wehrmacht had already occupied the country before delivery. The end for the ailing company came in early 1942: The Steyr-Solothurn Waffen AG was put on the “Statutory List” – the UK’s blacklist. This list, established in 1939 after the outbreak of war, included all the companies that the British supposed to support the German Reich and its allies. And for the Waffenfabrik Solothurn as a de facto German company a place on this list was unavoidable, so it was cut off from all lucrative markets in Europe. Through stock transfers and various letterbox companies it was tried to disguise the Waffenfabrik as a Swiss company. But without success, as so easily the authorities could not be fooled. Last but not least, a large order of more than 2,000 anti-tank guns for Italy failed as the country surrendered to the Allies in September 1943. Whether a payment for the 1,500 already delivered weapons was received is more than questionable. In 1944, the last weapon rolled off the line, then the production was finally stopped.

Experimental version of the MP34 with a light-weight stock made of stamped sheet metal. (Military Museum, Prague)

Of the approximately 800 employees, only 200 could be kept; all others had to be dismissed. The toolmaking division was still in the development stage and too young, as it could compensate the loss of the weapons factory. The newly developed “small workshop tool set” proved to be too expensive and its sale was difficult.

 

https://smallarmsreview.com/swiss-connection-rheinmetall-and-steyr-in-switzerland/

 

In the context of trade negotiations of the Allies with Switzerland in February 1945 about the future after the war, it was decided to block all German assets in Switzerland. This meant the complete inability of the Waffenfabrik to act, and so the managers tried to make the best of a bad situation. Already on March 19, 1945 the “Werkzeugmaschinenfabrik Solothurn AG” (machine tools factory) was founded and whose shares were now fully in Swiss hands. But once again, the authorities could not be fooled. The premises were the same and in the background the already well-known managers of the Waffenfabrik pulled the strings. In January 1946, the machine tools factory was put on the list of German companies.

According to the Washington Agreement, Switzerland was committed to the liquidation of German assets. This task was executed for both companies by the accredited notary of the machine tools factory, Dr. jur. Werner von Arx. 

                                            * * * * *


 

 

You may also recall the research into Ernst Imfeld, another of the signatories on the original Permindex documents. Imfeld, along with Ludwig Haupt, and Friedrich Kadgien formed IMHAUKA, a business model along the lines of SOFINDUS and World Commerce Corporation export and import operations based in Argentina and Brazil. (kudos to @Robert Montenegro for identifying Kadgien's relationship to Imfeld leading us to IMHAUKA.) 

 

 

 

Ernst Imfeld, (seen in photo at an event in Tulsa, OK) was the straw man for Permindex whose board also included Count or Prince Spadafora whose son married one of Hjalmar Schacht’s daughters and George Mandel (Mantello) who is lauded in Israel for having arranged the escape of Jews who could afford to flee the Holocaust. Records suggest it was a financially rewarding effort rather than altruism, and even the CIA didn’t trust Mandel.  Imfeld and Haupt settled in Argentina & Brazil - IMHAUKA export, import, still in operation today and relevant to SOFINDUS (as referenced in the essay presented at the end of this post).  
 

Friedrich Kadgien  was Goering’s head of foreign currency for The Four Year Plan.

 

A Federico Kadgien, Buenas Aires is listed as a reference on a 1955 visa application of former SS Stuka Pilot Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

 

H. Keith Thompson, Marguerite Oswald's manager in early 1964 is another of Rudel's references in 1955.

 

After more than a decade, Rudel was finally successful in securing a visa for entry into the US in September 1963, and arrived on October 8/9 — coinciding by chance with Lafitte's OSARN OSARN entry — to attend a conference at Wright Patterson.

 

Rudel appears in the Lafitte datebook September 13 (possibly in concert with his latest application for visa) and December 9 White + all / guns Rudel  (with thanks to Brian E. for catching that December 9 entry. More on the possible identity of this White referenced by Lafitte at a future date.)

 

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/RUDEL%2C%20HANS_0056.pdf

 

 

Subject Listing of Numbered Documents in M1934, OSS ...

National Archives | (.gov)

https://www.archives.gov › research › holocaust

 

Dr Friedrich Kadgien, Ludwig Haupt, Dr Ernst Rudolf Fisher. 2/1/1946. State Dept.; Paris, London,. Asuncion, American. Embassies; Berlin, U.S..

 

Ludwig Haupt — the third leg of the IMHAUKA barstool, remains very elusive so this is a work in progress:

 

In searching through my files for "Haupt", I realized the name appears in my essay on the Great Salad Oil Swindle which almost brought down the American commodities market the morning of Friday, November 22.  (see photo from El Pais article linked below.  A naked eye analysis suggests Tino De Angelis of Allied Crude Oil was photographed with Johannes Bernhardt of SOFINDUS).

 

 

If  the objective of November 22, 1963 was a coup meant to realign American democracy in the literal sense to suit an international far right agenda, the death of one man - even the president -  could not make it so. Historically, attempts on the lives of presidents, including Reagan in contemporary politics, did not carry a similar weight.   In 1963, other elements had to have been in play in order for the democratically elected government to collapse. Those elements would include significant damage to the stability of the US economy.  Any assassination of an American president would be an obvious trigger for a sharp sell off, but the question is, could the sell off on Friday, November 22, 1963 have been helped along. Author Kent has studied in some depth the sudden and significant sale of stock in the Dallas based military contractor, Ling Timco Vought (LTV) that Friday morning.  He highlights  that among the directors was D. Harold Byrd, owner of the building known as the Texas School Book Depository. LTV is studied extensively in Chapter 10 of this book, and the reader is also encouraged to read Kent’s Endnote to this chapter related to that specific stock sell off that seems to represent the micro of the macro.  

 

In a  rather clumsy summary, particularly for those steeped in the machinations of global markets,  the vegetable oil swindle started with a “grain caper”.  Assassination researcher Kenn Thomas tells us, ' $55,000,000 worth of barley, corn and sorghum was to be shipped to Austria for German and Austrian firms by half a dozen American exporters.  Somehow less than half of it got there.  How do you lose $30,000,000 worth of grain? You do it, it turns out with a carefully thought out international control operation with numerous dummy corporations and Swiss bank accounts and at least one German firm in Hamburg (which was a big new customer of a man named Tino De Angelis).  In the course of a vast investigation of this little incident by the U.S. Senator Williams of Delaware set the probable “take by the conspirators behind it at between three and five million dollars.  De Angelis was the founder of Allied Crude Vegetable Oil Refining Corporation in Bayonne, New Jersey.  Of 50 companies that either lent money or deposited oil at Allied’s Bayonne plant against warehouse receipts, the Bunge and Borne, Lda was the one most attached to the success (or failure) of Allied Crude Vegetable.  Sometimes dubbed as “The Octopus” by financial writers (which many readers will find highly interesting), Bunge had one of the finest communications networks outside of any government to facilitate the second by second fluctuations of the world market that made or lost millions.  The American Bunge Corporation was the privately held giant,  financially controlled by a group of share-holders of Bunge and Borne whose headquarters were and remain in Buenos Aires, Argentina.  The founders had immigrated from Germany, and most of the board members were naturalized immigrants, second generation Argentenians of Belgian and German descent.  The Bunge had everything in the early 1960s to affect the global markets to which the US economy was tied: a German influence in its home base of Argentina, supra- flexibility in world communications, tremendous assets, and a strong influence over decisions made at Allied Vegetable Oil.  While no student of this scandal has ever asserted that Bunge knowingly set in motion the events that triggered the markets in the hours before Kennedy was assassinated, there is no question that through it’s American subsidiary, American Bunge, it  owned 40% of Allied Vegetable Oil’s business that was in deep trouble.  Bunge exported about $100 million worth of vegetable oil each year, most of which was supplied by Allied out of New Jersey.  When asked in court in 1964  how much the next highest level customer held in Allied, attorney David Ravin responded, ‘less than 15%’.  The Ravin & Ravin law firm served as referee in Allied’s bankruptcy, which leads us to that thinnest of threads.  But first a brief summary of the role American Express played in the scandal. Before launching, it should be noted that among the directors of AE at the time were Ret. General Lucius Clay who was considered one of America's most ardent cultural Cold Warriors, and L.W. Douglas - the brother-in-law of John McCloy, future influencer of the Warren Commission report. Douglas benefitted from his family's wealth derived from the Phelps Dodge mining conglomerate with historic ties to the family of the wife of James Jesus Angleton.  

 

The afternoon of October 14, 1963, the founder of Allied Vegetable, Tino De Angelis,  forged receipts of American Express Warehouse - the entity that was allegedly storing vats of vegetable oil -  for $6,000,000 worth of ‘phantom oil’ to Wall Street.  In the next few weeks, De Angelis sent an additional $33 million worth of forged papers, and the same time, he began  check-kiting up to $17.5 million. When word seeped out that Allied Vegetable was risky, the sell off began.  Around November 15,  rumors swept trading floors that Bunge Corp. was behind the selling.  By November 18, brokerage firm Haupt Inc., a major promoter of Allied Vegetable, noted that the day’s drop in futures had driven Allied’s debt to Haupt from 9 million to 14 million, and counting,  News that De Angelis was filing bankruptcy hit the markets.  One of his key legal minds, Morris Ravin, the brother of David, caught wind that the tanks in the American Express Warehouse were for the most part empty, i.e., there was no oil to support the receipts that had made investors salivate over Allied Vegetable stock, and, by pure chance Morris Ravin decided to rat and contact the Department of Justice.  By Thursday afternoon, November 21, Bunge Corp filed suit and charged that American Express had “lost” 160,450,000 pounds of oil worth $14,240,000.  The fact was, there was never any vegetable oil in those storage tanks in the AW Warehouse.   Friday morning, November 22, the New York Stock Exchange announced that two outside brokerage firms would help meet the capital requirements to support Haupt and another firm, resulting in a slight improvement at 12:15 EST, just two hours and fifteen minutes before Kennedy was shot.  The head of the Exchange called an emergency meeting with Haupt brokerage.  In a short few hours, approximately $200,000,000 were diverted from normal channels in the Allied debacle, borne out by the record.  Selling “short”, the act of betting against a stock, in scattered areas of the market brought in one half billion dollars as opposed to the  six billion that could have been realized as events in Dallas unfolded. The magicians of the scheme were not greedy to that extent.   Instead of dropping possibly 30 points, the stock market dropped 24 points in 27 minutes as Kennedy’s body was being “handled” at Parkland.    Approx. 2.6 million shares were sold off in the greatest panic of the market since 1929.   Major customer of Allied Vegetable, the head of Garnac Grain, is quoted as having said upon learning that Kennedy had been assassinated, “I thought this must be a plot by the Russians or the underworld -- too many crazy things are happening at once”.

 

How might the vegetable oil swindle that culminated the morning of November 22,  be hinted at in the records of Pierre Lafitte, and does that hint merit further pursuit? The history of Nazi Johannes Bernhardt must first be considered  Bernhardt, a devotee of Herman Goering and Adolph Hiter, moved his operations to Argentina as did so many Nazi elites following the war, and from there established the highly lucrative, powerful conduit for global enterprises under the eventual banner SOFINDUS.  Among Johanne’s most significant investments were those that fed, literally, a large percentage of the world population.  Under the company name “Progreso Agricultural,” he controlled distribution of food products coming out of South America.  With time and resources, his investments in Bunge and Borne will be confirmed.  Bernhardt’s known business associates in Franco’s Spain, Skorzeny and Victor Oswald, both of whom are  among those relevant to our investigation, lead to Pierre Lafitte.  A Lafitte datebook entry, October >>>, reveals the name or term, “Ravin”.  Initially, the reference was dismissed by these authors out of hand as one among several that would never be “locked down” in this investigation.  It appears in context of another apparent codeword “holdout”. In depth, aggressive search for an understanding of what or who Lafitte might have been referring to in the entry “Ravin Holdout”  results in the thinnest of threads.  Was Lafitte leaving behind a clue that Ravin the attorney(s) was holding out, holding fast, holding something, tied to the near economic crash - few average Americans are aware of then, let alone now  -  of the US economy at the same time their president had been assassinated?   

 

 As early as 1962, Wall Street Journal reporter Norman C. Miller recognized there was a story to be had.  His articles culminated in “The Great Salad Oil Swindle” published in 1965 that won him a Pulitzer Prize, a book these authors encourage the reader to consult.

 

(the photo found in this link, identifying Johannes Bernhardt, includes a man who bears a strong resemblance to Tino De Angelis, Allied Crude.)

https://english.elpais.com/elpais/2013/08/01/inenglish/1375364409_371574.html  

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[David Josephs]

38 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Huh, David?

I'm not sure where your erroneous concepts about my analytic abilities and knowledge of history are coming from.

I majored in American Studies at Brown, like young JFK, Jr., before going to medical school in Boston.

As for this forum, I'm a latecomer to the JFK research, but I have followed the discussions on this forum fairly closely during the past few years-- and also studied the archives here.

I have always respected your analyses, but, honestly, I don't think Fletcher Prouty had a nefarious bone in his body.  (And I'm a reasonably good judge of character-- a professional even.)

Would you, at least, agree that Prouty has been targeted by a CIA smear campaign since 1992?

And I respect what you are saying about the man, "you don't think..." obviously comes from your time studying the man and his work.  In this discussion we are focused on the activities you may or may not have been aware of prior to @Robert Montenegro post.

Help me out as you sound as if you are in the know - list some of the "smear campaign" components as you understand them... what they attacked and the negative outcomes heaped upon PROUTY.  If you cannot fathom a man in that position having more than one agenda, I'd have to say as a Dr you might be better off discussing the medical evidence and dig a bit more into the manner in which intelligence agencies create narratives, with supporting casts, to either support or "smear" information they either do not like, or have put in place themselves as part of a bigger situation.

It is comprehendible to you that intel agencies would create layers to cover their actual intentions and actions, yes?

And in this case some of those layers may have had to do with turning your attention to narratives about Cubans, Castro, Mexico, NSAMs or whatever else that had little to do with the actual plans and personnel involved.

Now as the CIA, you attack poor COL PROUTY.  What does that do to the credibility of his false, onion-layer narratives but only give them more value.. If the CIA is attacking, something must be up.. right?  He must have hit a nerve. 

He must be right.  And this process has been used time and time again with the vast resources of the CIA to plant stories, publish books, own businesses, ... to but it bluntly,: to influence the hearts and minds of people like you and I to believe what they want us to believe. 

An no, I'm not some paranoid sitting in a dark cellar spouting conspiracy junk... I'm a Conspiracy Realist who understands that human beings will do anything and everything to remain either wealthy and/or in Power.  

Then again, I am just one man with a POV from 20+ years of reading and digging much deeper than I see you are willing to go.  I have nothing whatsoever against PROUTY and don't think he was as involved as Robert makes him out to be because I don't have an agenda to push or a book to sell.

@Paul Brancato was right in one of the most eloquent posts ever.  If we can't be open to discussion to find common ground, what's the point?

 

“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” William Casey, CIA Director

I've researched this quote and 

This is pretty amazing. The #1 answer here used to be from Barbara Honnegger, who was part of the Reagan Administration and claimed to be in that meeting, confirming that Casey said it.

Now her answer is gone and the #1 answer is an overlong, rambling, extremely self-indulgent treatise from an “ex”-CIA guy that lukewarm endorses the concept being part of CIA perspective but does zero to confirm he said it.

This is followed by a bunch of bad takes, particularly people citing the quote to Mae Brussell, which I never heard before now.

This is clearly a disinformation campaign by intelligence, following their usual pattern of censorship followed by new misinformation.

I wonder what happened to Ms. Honnegger.

 

[W. Niederhut]

David,

     I think Barbara Honnegger was an erstwhile 9/11 Truther and PNAC critic before she vanished from the national radar.

     As for my experience of the "smear campaign" against Prouty, I have written about the subject on a few older threads around here.  I first noticed the bizarre negative PR about Prouty on the internet several years ago-- after re-watching Donald Sutherland in Oliver Stone's film, JFK, then reading Prouty's book on JFK, the CIA, and Vietnam.

    The defamatory material on the internet -- by a guy named John McAdams--seemed to bear no resemblance to Mr. X, or to my perceptions of Prouty's character and work from reading his book(s) and listening to his commentaries.  (I read The Secret Team after the JFK book.)

     At the time, I didn't know anything about McAdams.edu, but the more I delved into the topic of the JFK assassination, the more I realized that this guy, McAdams, was some sort of government propagandist hell-bent on defaming and discrediting Prouty's revelations about Ed Lansdale, the CIA, Vietnam, and the JFK assassination.

    (Incidentally, how would you answer Prouty's old question to his colleague, General Victor Krulak-- "What was Lansdale doing in Dealey Plaza?")

    As for "layers of the onion" and false intelligence narratives, I'll take your advice and try to learn more about these military/intelligence complex ops you guys are describing.  But I still wonder why Prouty would have opened his mouth to Jim Garrison in the first place if he was, in fact, trying to conceal a mysterious, non-CIA military intelligence op.  Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to say nothing?

Edited July 19, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

-- "What was Lansdale doing in Dealey Plaza?"

Clearing out the back-up patsies.

[David Josephs]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The Dictator-Puppet-in-Chief, through his illegal but indisputable snuff job on the JFK Records Act, is helping to cover up a Nazified-CIA JFKA? Really? Why? 

Cause he/they and everyone has no real idea what's in them - or some form of significant leverage is being asserted by those who do know what may be in those files.

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

David,

     I think Barbara Honnegger was an erstwhile 9/11 Truther and PNAC critic before she vanished from the national radar.

     As for my experience of the "smear campaign" against Prouty, I have written about the subject on a few older threads around here.  I first noticed the bizarre negative PR about Prouty on the internet several years ago-- after re-watching Donald Sutherland in Oliver Stone's film, JFK, then reading Prouty's book on JFK, the CIA, and Vietnam.

    The defamatory material on the internet -- by a guy named John McAdams--seemed to bear no resemblance to Mr. X, or to my perceptions of Prouty's character and work from reading his book(s) and listening to his commentaries.  (I read The Secret Team after the JFK book.)

     At the time, I didn't know anything about McAdams.edu, but the more I delved into the topic of the JFK assassination, the more I realized that this guy, McAdams, was some sort of government propagandist hell-bent on defaming and discrediting Prouty's revelations about Ed Lansdale, the CIA, Vietnam, and the JFK assassination.

    (Incidentally, how would you answer Prouty's old question to his colleague, General Victor Krulak-- "What was Lansdale doing in Dealey Plaza?")

    As for "layers of the onion" and false intelligence narratives, I'll take your advice and try to learn more about these military/intelligence complex ops you guys are describing.  But I still wonder why Prouty would have opened his mouth to Jim Garrison in the first place if he was, in fact, trying to conceal a mysterious, non-CIA military intelligence op.  Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to say nothing?

Thanks for the civil response W.   I don't mind it being pointed out where I'm wrong, but I need a bit more than "cause we say so"...

For those who stop short of the next step, McAdams sounds reasonable and logical, doesn't he?
I'm glad you took the next step...  now whether this too was part of "keeping the narrative going so they don't see the men behind the curtain"... I can only guess.

Like the repeated discussions about Oswald's shooting capability.  Since he was never in the window all that is, is a smoke screen to keep you busy ala, Salandria's famous quote.  Problem is when the minutia becomes a mountain.

(Incidentally...), Krulak and especially PROUTY saying it was Lansdale, doesn't make it Lansdale. 

If it was Lansdale though, does that not give the events a very different and sinister slant, especially to be allowed to walk past uniformed police with rifles? - do you see the tall tramp smiling as he walks by?

On the flip side, the top SS men begged off (Every read about FLYOD BORING: Palamara's "Boring is Interesting"?), Kellerman was a replacement (if I remember correctly) who would up being the man taking JFK's body from Parkland over the objections of the FBI and Dr. Rose.    And what he did at Bethesda and lied about was criminal.

So while PROUTY and his downline are many threads of the tapestry, there are many, many others - on purpose - to make understanding terribly difficult.

===

I am far from an expert, more like a novice when it comes to how and what the CIA did to cover itself and its assets and programs... I am aware of the broad stroke concepts and have read about some of the implementations.  There are outright experts right here, like @Larry Hancock whose works are must reads if you want any kind of clearer understanding of he CIA and it's methods.  And I'm sure he can recommend some others

To accept Oswald did it - one just needs to agree with the government
To learn he didn't requires dedicating one's life and accepting the evil that men do...  most don't have the stomach for it

 

[Paul Brancato]

13 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Thanks for the civil response W.   I don't mind it being pointed out where I'm wrong, but I need a bit more than "cause we say so"...

For those who stop short of the next step, McAdams sounds reasonable and logical, doesn't he?
I'm glad you took the next step...  now whether this too was part of "keeping the narrative going so they don't see the men behind the curtain"... I can only guess.

Like the repeated discussions about Oswald's shooting capability.  Since he was never in the window all that is, is a smoke screen to keep you busy ala, Salandria's famous quote.  Problem is when the minutia becomes a mountain.

(Incidentally...), Krulak and especially PROUTY saying it was Lansdale, doesn't make it Lansdale. 

If it was Lansdale though, does that not give the events a very different and sinister slant, especially to be allowed to walk past uniformed police with rifles? - do you see the tall tramp smiling as he walks by?

On the flip side, the top SS men begged off (Every read about FLYOD BORING: Palamara's "Boring is Interesting"?), Kellerman was a replacement (if I remember correctly) who would up being the man taking JFK's body from Parkland over the objections of the FBI and Dr. Rose.    And what he did at Bethesda and lied about was criminal.

So while PROUTY and his downline are many threads of the tapestry, there are many, many others - on purpose - to make understanding terribly difficult.

===

I am far from an expert, more like a novice when it comes to how and what the CIA did to cover itself and its assets and programs... I am aware of the broad stroke concepts and have read about some of the implementations.  There are outright experts right here, like @Larry Hancock whose works are must reads if you want any kind of clearer understanding of he CIA and it's methods.  And I'm sure he can recommend some others

To accept Oswald did it - one just needs to agree with the government
To learn he didn't requires dedicating one's life and accepting the evil that men do...  most don't have the stomach for it

 

Last sentence - ain’t that the truth? I have one friend who found the stomach after listening to me rant and finally reading JFK and the Unspeakable. No one else read anything, not even the trading cards I worked so hard on.

[David Josephs]

2 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

No one else read anything, not even the trading cards I worked so hard on.

I feel ya Paul... Hard being an unrecognized translator of history