Gil Jesus Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 The government contends that these are pictures of the same man. What do you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Blackmon Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 The one on the far left is somebody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) Of course one can see differences. To what degrees is very subjective. The first photo on the left is obviously Oswald as a lean and mean late teens marine. The next photo on the right definitely shows a more pudgy, pasty and less fit face with a longer and more relaxed hair growth versus the super trim and tidy Marine buzz cut. The lighting is so different. Cheap Russian camera perhaps? Oswald in this 2nd photo looks like a married man who is much more sedentary than a daily running and marching teen Marine. And maybe Marina's borscht, boiled potatoes and sweet cakes fare added some extra weight? Oswald's Dallas jail pic obviously shows him under extreme physical stress. Days of not eating and sleeping well and this on top of his weeks of spare boarding rooming house fare of mostly just peanut butter sandwiches and milk and his sandwich and soda pop school book depository lunches? The backyard pic is different in even more curious ways. The daylight lighting is so bright. The facial shadows starker and darker. Oswald looks harder and more stern in this photo. Older looking than 22 or 23 imo. Most photo's of Oswald he is serious and unsmiling, as these 4 pics show. I've seen "a few pics" of Oswald slightly smiling and relaxed. One where he and Marina are waving from the deck of the large passenger boat leaving to go to America, another of him and his Russian buds clowning around on a day off adventure and another of him and Marina at a family gathering at his brother Robert's Dallas area home. And in one of his New Orleans leaflet passing pics. So, differences in the photos? For sure and with some valid suspicion even imo. Different lighting, cheap cameras and normal aging explain some of the differences however. The second photo from the left is the most intriguingly different one imo. Did the Russki's pull a doppleganger switcharoo here? Edited August 22, 2023 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said: Of course one can see differences. To what degrees is very subjective. The first photo on the left is obviously Oswald as a lean and mean late teens marine. The next photo on the right definitely shows a more pudgy, pasty and less fit face with a longer and more relaxed hair growth versus the super trim and tidy Marine buzz cut. The lighting is so different. Cheap Russian camera perhaps? Oswald in this 2nd photo looks like a married man who is much more sedentary than a daily running and marching teen Marine. And maybe Marina's borscht, potatoes and sweet cakes fare added some extra weight? Oswald's Dallas jail pic obviously shows him under extreme physical stress. Days of not eating and sleeping well and this on top of his weeks of spare boarding rooming house fare of mostly just peanut butter sandwiches and milk and his sandwich and soda pop school book depository lunches? The backyard pic is different in even more curious ways. The daylight lighting is so bright. The facial shadows starker and darker. Oswald looks harder and more stern in this photo. Older looking than 22 or 23 imo. Most photo's of Oswald he is serious and unsmiling, as these 4 pics are. I've seen "a few pics" of Oswald slightly smiling and relaxed. One where he and Marina are waving from the deck of the large passenger boat leaving to go to America, another of him and his Russian buds clowning around on a day off adventure and another of him and Marina at a family gathering at his brother Robert's Dallas area home. And in one of his New Orleans leaflet passing pics. So, differences in the photos? For sure and with some valid suspicion even imo. Different lighting, cheap cameras and normal aging explain some of the differences however. The second photo from the left is the most intriguingly different one imo. Did the Russki's pull a doppleganger switcharoo here? The shapes of the heads are different. One is shorter and rounder, the other is longer and narrower. One has a rounder chin, the other has a noticeable cleft. I'm sorry, but IMO, these are not photographs of the same man. They may resemble each other, and I'm sure you would mistake one for another if you didn't see them side-by-side, but these are not the same man. And I would go so far as to opine that the "Oswald" in the famous "backyard photographs" is NOT Oswald at all, but a look-alike. I've been researching the "backyard photographs" and I've found evidence that they were NOT taken in March, but later in the year, probably the fall. At about the same time Lee Harvey Oswald was in New Orleans trying to infiltrate the DRE. Edited August 22, 2023 by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 I do see the differences you describe Gil. Tough call either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Over ay of 1959 passport photo and arrest photo anchored on the left eye, the next on the ears, and bottom is Harvey on the3 left, Lee on the right FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 More differences between the two far left Oswald photos: Oswald's right side ear sticks out more noticeably on the farther left pic. Chin line is definitely longer and more narrow in his Marine photo versus his Russian life one. The face in the Russian life photo seems shorter and more compact from the eyes to the chin than the Marine pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Were there two Oswalds? And if so which one was arrested on 11,22,1963? I mentioned in a post here years ago that I caught a peculiar speech inflection anomaly by Oswald when he was verbally responding to questions from the press crowd as he was being paraded right through them from one room to another in the Dallas Police headquarters building the first night he was held there. It caught my ear and did so many years before I posted about it. Oswald's words were... "the first time I heard that was when one of the press people "AXED" me that question." I have lived and interacted with black Americans all my young life. Since kindergarten my primary schools always had many kids from African American heritage. Reason being the huge army infantry base Fort Ord just 10 miles away. Thousands of black Americans were stationed there and many loved it here so much they brought or started families here for permanent residency. Thousands lived mostly in a base neighboring town called Seaside, Ca. There was a massive emigration of Southern blacks to Calif. right after WWII. All my life one of the most common linguistic pronunciation traits of almost every black I interacted with was to pronounce the word "ask" as "axe." To me, to hear the Dallas Police suspect Oswald use the "axed" form of "ask" in his regular speech suggested to me a person who grew up in a heavily black urban environment. New Orleans would definitely be such a place. For the Russians to plant a doppleganger from their homeland to replace the American Oswald...they would have to be brilliant in also imbuing in this person a black American slang knowledge in his new vocabulary. For what it's worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted August 23, 2023 Author Share Posted August 23, 2023 (edited) 22 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: Steve Thomas Good catch, Steve. Look at the top of the ear in relation to the eye. On the one on the left, the top of the ear is BELOW the bottom of the eye. On the one on the right, the top of the ear is almost even with the top of the eye. This is obviously NOT the same person. When the blown-up photo ( CE 133-A ) was shown to Oswald, he commented, "That's not even my face". ( 7 H 231 ) For the reasons I've mentioned in this thread, I'm inclined to believe that is correct. The nutters can cry about the lighting, or the angles or anything else, but lighting and angles don't change the shape of a man's jaw and they certainly don't change the shape of a man's head. Edited August 23, 2023 by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ulrik Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 Homework assignment. Look at your face in the mirror, then nod a bit forward. Report back to us what happens to the top of your ears relative to your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, Mark Ulrik said: Homework assignment. Look at your face in the mirror, then nod a bit forward. Report back to us what happens to the top of your ears relative to your eyes. Mark, You're right. I realized later that in one photo, the person's head is tilted slightly back. In the other photo, the person's head is tilted slightly forward. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ulrik Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: Mark, You're right. I realized later that in one photo, the person's head is tilted slightly back. In the other photo, the person's head is tilted slightly forward. Steve Thomas Thanks, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 Oswald pictures often lead to disagreements. More interesting, to me, is documentary evidence. For example, few people realize that there is an indication that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was retired from the Marines Corps on two separate occasions. The Warren Report, and a number of supporting documents, indicated that Oswald was discharged from the USMC on Sept. 11, 1959. But according to the records of Assistant Provost Marshall William Gorsky, LHO was discharged from the marines half a year earlier, in March, 1959. There are many other records suggesting there were two different Lee Harvey Oswalds in the Marine Corps. John Armstrong’s updated write-up on this, not yet public, can be read on our website here: https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines_TEST.html Plenty of professional medical records also indicate that one LHO was 5’9” tall as an adult, while the other was 5’11” and considerably heavier. I think it is unwise to trust, or try to interpret, the facial photographic evidence in this case, at least if it isn’t supported by other kinds of evidence. The definitive collection of Oswald mugshots was prepared decades ago by Jack White and John Armstrong: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: Oswald pictures often lead to disagreements. More interesting, to me, is documentary evidence. For example, few people realize that there is an indication that “Lee Harvey Oswald” was retired from the Marines Corps on two separate occasions. The Warren Report, and a number of supporting documents, indicated that Oswald was discharged from the USMC on Sept. 11, 1959. But according to the records of Assistant Provost Marshall William Gorsky, LHO was discharged from the marines half a year earlier, in March, 1959. There are many other records suggesting there were two different Lee Harvey Oswalds in the Marine Corps. John Armstrong’s updated write-up on this, not yet public, can be read on our website here: https://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines_TEST.html Plenty of professional medical records also indicate that one LHO was 5’9” tall as an adult, while the other was 5’11” and considerably heavier. I think it is unwise to trust, or try to interpret, the facial photographic evidence in this case, at least if it isn’t supported by other kinds of evidence. The definitive collection of Oswald mugshots was prepared decades ago by Jack White and John Armstrong: Does that document just mean LHO was discharged from the marine base in March 1959, not that he was actually discharged from the marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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