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NYT Review on JFK "What the Doctors Saw"


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That is correct.

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Would have liked to watch this without the ad breaks, but certainly above the usual JFKA fayre.

Q. Why would a S.S. man be warning a Parkland doctor not to talk about an entrance wound in the throat, just under two hours after the shooting?

Edited by Pete Mellor
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5 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Would have liked to watch this without the ad breaks, but certainly above the usual JFKA fayre.

Q. Why would a S.S. man be warning a Parkland doctor not to talk about an entrance wound in the throat, just under two hours after the shooting?

There seems to have been high panic regarding the official narrative, in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA. 

As well-documented, the CIA turned US media into its megaphone on the JFK assassination, abject in all regards. In anyone doubts the craven complicity of trusted titans of US media at the time, let them consider this paragraph from Life magazine, which ran in Life's December 6, 1963 issue. 

At the time Life went to press, it was thought JFK had been shot in the throat. But Oswald was behind JFK, in the TSBD. So, Life solves the problem and reports, 

"The 8mm [Zapruder] film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed to the sniper's nest [in the TSBD] just before he clutches it." 

This is truly creative lying, showing a scope and scale for deception and disinformation that must have impressed envious peers in Moscow and Peking. 

It is hard to conceive of a lower moment for US journalism. 

 

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2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Oh c'mon, guys. Nobody threatened Perry on the day of the shooting. Perry and Clark and others continued to describe the throat wound as an entrance for days afterward. What McClelland is no doubt conflating are two incidents--very real. The first is that SS Agent Elmer Moore visited the Parkland doctors in December and showed them the autopsy protocol stating the throat wound was an exit. While Perry, McClelland and others were supposedly grateful to be kept in the loop, this might come across as threatening in hindsight. The other incident is Perry's testimony in D.C., where Specter twisted him into saying he never described the throat wound as an entrance during the first press conference, when the transcripts prove he did. So how did Specter get away with this? Well, supposedly, no one could find a transcript at the time. Well, it turned out the Secret Service had one, which it would later provide the LBJ Library. So that mystery was solved. He initially said it appeared to be an entrance, but then slipped into flat-out calling it an entrance. Not that it matters that much. Emergency Room doctors are allowed to be wrong. But the pressure put on Perry during his testimony to pretend he never said it was an entrance is intriguing, and suggestive someone (perhaps Specter) had had a "talk" with him. 

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On 11/20/2023 at 9:36 AM, Benjamin Cole said:

There seems to have been high panic regarding the official narrative, in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA. 

As well-documented, the CIA turned US media into its megaphone on the JFK assassination, abject in all regards. In anyone doubts the craven complicity of trusted titans of US media at the time, let them consider this paragraph from Life magazine, which ran in Life's December 6, 1963 issue. 

At the time Life went to press, it was thought JFK had been shot in the throat. But Oswald was behind JFK, in the TSBD. So, Life solves the problem and reports, 

"The 8mm [Zapruder] film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed to the sniper's nest [in the TSBD] just before he clutches it." 

This is truly creative lying, showing a scope and scale for deception and disinformation that must have impressed envious peers in Moscow and Peking. 

It is hard to conceive of a lower moment for US journalism. 

 

The weekend of the murder Life bought all rights to the Zapruder film, including the right to show it in full as a film.  They then locked it out of view of the public until a bootleg copy was shown 12 years later on TV.  Their job done, Life sold the film rights back to Zapruder for $1.
 
The publisher of Life, CD Jackson, was a long time CIA asset.  In repressing the film while offering distorted claims about what it showed, Life was fronting for the CIA.
 
The propensity to lie is directly proportional to the expectation of getting away with it.
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14 minutes ago, Roger Odisio said:
The weekend of the murder Life bought all rights to the Zapruder film, including the right to show it in full as a film.  They then locked it out of view of the public until a bootleg copy was shown 12 years later on TV.  Their job done, Life sold the film rights back to Zapruder for $1.
 
The publisher of Life, CD Jackson, was a long time CIA asset.  In repressing the film while offering distorted claims about what it showed, Life was fronting for the CIA.
 
The propensity to lie is directly proportional to the expectation of getting away with it.

That's a shorthand version. Life was a business. They sold millions of magazines featuring frames from the film. They also published an issue detailing how the film was at odds with the single-bullet theory, in which they called for a new investigation. As the Z-film frames were published by the Warren Commission, moreover, and as Life allowed people to study the frames, it's not quite accurate to say they locked it up out of view. In America, for better or worse, often-times worse, corporations and individuals can own stuff in which the public has an interest. They can then use that "asset" as they see fit. 

(I worked in the record industry, as a buyer, and it was not remotely uncommon for an individual to realize a long out-of-print record was unavailable on compact disc, record it digitally from an LP, and then put it out under his own label. Well, this would frequently lead to a cease and desist from a label or individual who owned the rights to that recording, but had NO interest in making it available in the foreseeable future. To their mind, they owned the rights and wanted no one else to have access to what they owned. Now, here's the kicker...sometimes the individual putting out the record when someone else owned the rights was the recording artist. They wanted to sell it at oldies shows, or from a fan website. But they were forbidden to do so by their former label...because because because....)

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4 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

That's a shorthand version. Life was a business. They sold millions of magazines featuring frames from the film. They also published an issue detailing how the film was at odds with the single-bullet theory, in which they called for a new investigation. As the Z-film frames were published by the Warren Commission, moreover, and as Life allowed people to study the frames, it's not quite accurate to say they locked it up out of view. In America, for better or worse, often-times worse, corporations and individuals can own stuff in which the public has an interest. They can then use that "asset" as they see fit. 

(I worked in the record industry, as a buyer, and it was not remotely uncommon for an individual to realize a long out-of-print record was unavailable on compact disc, record it digitally from an LP, and then put it out under his own label. Well, this would frequently lead to a cease and desist from a label or individual who owned the rights to that recording, but had NO interest in making it available in the foreseeable future. To their mind, they owned the rights and wanted no one else to have access to what they owned. Now, here's the kicker...sometimes the individual putting out the record when someone else owned the rights was the recording artist. They wanted to sell it at oldies shows, or from a fan website. But they were forbidden to do so by their former label...because because because....)

Perhaps. That does not explain this: 

 

At the time LIFE went to press, it was thought JFK had been shot in the throat. But Oswald was behind JFK, in the TSBD. So, LIFE solves the problem and reports, 

"The 8mm [Zapruder] film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed to the sniper's nest [in the TSBD] just before he clutches it." 

This is truly creative lying, showing a scope and scale for deception and disinformation that must have impressed envious peers in Moscow and Peking. 

Now explain to me when, in the Z-film, you see JFK turn and face the TSBD.  Was LIFE trying to make profits with that fabricated reporting? 

This LIFE reporting does color perceptions of what happened to the Z-film. In truth, it was not shown to the bulk of the American public for years and years. 

I suspect this was because many observers, rightly or wrongly, would see JFK suddenly thrust to his own back and left as evidence of a shot from the right and front---from the GK in other words. 

This thrust of JFK (seen in the Z film) coincides with the witness testimony of the sound of shots and gunsmoke at the GK. 

Let us say, I am skeptical the Z-film was repressed for pecuniary considerations only. 

(As an aside, I suspect the GK was a "smoke and bang show," a diversion. But I cannot explain why JFK was thrust to own back and right so violently.)

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20 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

That's a shorthand version. Life was a business. They sold millions of magazines featuring frames from the film. They also published an issue detailing how the film was at odds with the single-bullet theory, in which they called for a new investigation. As the Z-film frames were published by the Warren Commission, moreover, and as Life allowed people to study the frames, it's not quite accurate to say they locked it up out of view. In America, for better or worse, often-times worse, corporations and individuals can own stuff in which the public has an interest. They can then use that "asset" as they see fit. 

(I worked in the record industry, as a buyer, and it was not remotely uncommon for an individual to realize a long out-of-print record was unavailable on compact disc, record it digitally from an LP, and then put it out under his own label. Well, this would frequently lead to a cease and desist from a label or individual who owned the rights to that recording, but had NO interest in making it available in the foreseeable future. To their mind, they owned the rights and wanted no one else to have access to what they owned. Now, here's the kicker...sometimes the individual putting out the record when someone else owned the rights was the recording artist. They wanted to sell it at oldies shows, or from a fan website. But they were forbidden to do so by their former label...because because because....)

You want a longer version. Pat?  I suggest we know enough to conclude that the actions of Life, as part of the Henry Luce empire, were *not* those of an atomistic corporation chasing a buck, though of course they did make money publishing some Zapruder frames, while trying hard to distort what they showed. Ben has offered one example of their distortions.
 
CD Jackson, Life's publisher, was doing the bidding of the CIA, as he had most of his life, when he bought the rights to the Zapruder film.
 
Instead of going to Life's Chicago headquarters that Saturday, the film was diverted to the National Photographic Interpretation Center in DC.  Where Dino Brugioni made briefing boards by enlarging key Zapruder frames. Brugioni believes he was working on the Zapruder original that night.
 
The framing of Oswald had already begun. They needed to see to what extent Zapruder contradicted their story. 
 
Before Brugioni had even finished making the boards, the film was flown to the CIA's then secret Hawkeye Works lab in Rochester NY.  The very name, Hawkeye Works, was classified until 2010.  Doug Horne interviewed Brugioni in 2011.
 
The purpose of the work there was to try to obscure, as much as possible, any evidence of shots from the front.
 
The film was then flown back to the NPIC on Sunday where a second set of boards was made without even telling Brugioni (an indication of his integrity).  Brugioni's boards were later destroyed.  The second set now resides at NARA.
 
The second set of boards was made under the direction of "Bill Smith"  of the CIA. He picked the frames this time from the new version of the film. 
 
Brugioni believes the film's depiction of the head shot(s) in particular had been altered,  The version he worked on lasted several frames with bone, blood, and brain shooting well into the air, not the one frame flash now seen in the extant Zapruder.
 
But they realized they couldn't completely obscure evidence of shots from the front with the tools they had, so they sent Life back to Zapruder on Sunday to buy the rest of the rights to the film, including the right to show it in full as a film.   They added $100,000 on top of the $50,000 they had already paid Zapruder
 
Life never showed it as a film nor did they allow anyone else to show it.
 
When a bootleg copy was shown on TV causing a considerable uproar, Life sold the film rights back to Zapruder for $1.  They got no return on that extra $100,000. But their job was done.
 
In the meantime, on Sunday morning, Oswald was murdered before he could talk to a lawyer.  He could no longer defend himself against their frame.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "Life allowed people to study the frames". Who?  When?  What did those people say about what they saw? 
 
In any case it's one thing to allow someone to view individual frames and another to see the effect of the film as a motion picture.  The effect on the public of seeing the full film for the first time is a clear indication of why Life/the CIA kept it hidden for12 years. 
 
 
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41 minutes ago, Roger Odisio said:
You want a longer version. Pat?  I suggest we know enough to conclude that the actions of Life, as part of the Henry Luce empire, were *not* those of an atomistic corporation chasing a buck, though of course they did make money publishing some Zapruder frames, while trying hard to distort what they showed. Ben has offered one example of their distortions.
 
CD Jackson, Life's publisher, was doing the bidding of the CIA, as he had most of his life, when he bought the rights to the Zapruder film.
 
Instead of going to Life's Chicago headquarters that Saturday, the film was diverted to the National Photographic Interpretation Center in DC.  Where Dino Brugioni made briefing boards by enlarging key Zapruder frames. Brugioni believes he was working on the Zapruder original that night.
 
The framing of Oswald had already begun. They needed to see to what extent Zapruder contradicted their story. 
 
Before Brugioni had even finished making the boards, the film was flown to the CIA's then secret Hawkeye Works lab in Rochester NY.  The very name, Hawkeye Works, was classified until 2010.  Doug Horne interviewed Brugioni in 2011.
 
The purpose of the work there was to try to obscure, as much as possible, any evidence of shots from the front.
 
The film was then flown back to the NPIC on Sunday where a second set of boards was made without even telling Brugioni (an indication of his integrity).  Brugioni's boards were later destroyed.  The second set now resides at NARA.
 
The second set of boards was made under the direction of "Bill Smith"  of the CIA. He picked the frames this time from the new version of the film. 
 
Brugioni believes the film's depiction of the head shot(s) in particular had been altered,  The version he worked on lasted several frames with bone, blood, and brain shooting well into the air, not the one frame flash now seen in the extant Zapruder.
 
But they realized they couldn't completely obscure evidence of shots from the front with the tools they had, so they sent Life back to Zapruder on Sunday to buy the rest of the rights to the film, including the right to show it in full as a film.   They added $100,000 on top of the $50,000 they had already paid Zapruder
 
Life never showed it as a film nor did they allow anyone else to show it.
 
When a bootleg copy was shown on TV causing a considerable uproar, Life sold the film rights back to Zapruder for $1.  They got no return on that extra $100,000. But their job was done.
 
In the meantime, on Sunday morning, Oswald was murdered before he could talk to a lawyer.  He could no longer defend himself against their frame.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "Life allowed people to study the frames". Who?  When?  What did those people say about what they saw? 
 
In any case it's one thing to allow someone to view individual frames and another to see the effect of the film as a motion picture.  The effect on the public of seeing the full film for the first time is a clear indication of why Life/the CIA kept it hidden for12 years. 
 
 

The alteration of the film is extremely problematic. For one, the extant film, as I think you acknowledge, suggests an impact from the front. This makes little sense if this film was in fact altered by secret spook scientists at a secret spook lab to hide a shot from the front. 

As far as the rest of it... CD Jackson was yes indeed a man with government ties. It's near certain his purchase of the film was inspired by yes indeed his (and perhaps others') desire to keep the film out of the public domain, and off television. Many Americans (and not just government sycophants) thought the showing of such a film on television or in theaters extremely disrespectful. And yet, even so, Life published large color images of the President's murder, and used the film as an advertisement for the superiority of Life Magazine for decades, to the extent even that Life was still publishing expensive books featuring the images up through the 50th. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a new book or magazine of this nature on the stands today. Life made an investment, and the investment undoubtedly paid off. 

As far as allowing people to study the frames... Zapruder provided copies to the SS, who then shared it with the FBI, before selling his personal copy to Life. These copies were viewed by dozens if not hundreds of SS, FBI, and WC personnel. Small black and white photos of the frames were then published by the WC. It is my understanding that the earliest films shown to the public were made from photos of these frames. In any event, within a few years men like Thompson, Groden, and Lifton had gained access to early copies and slides, which they then used to create their own color films. And Garrison got a copy provided from Life, which was shown at trial before an audience numerous times, and was considered the single-most effective piece of evidence shown the jury and audience. And in another few years, Groden began showing his film at colleges. This was years before he showed it on Geraldo. So, the film was available to those with an interest. All the early researchers viewed it long before it was ever shown on TV. and none of them were arrested by the thought police or the Life copyright police. And it wasn't because Life didn't care. I believe Life sued Thompson over his use of the film in his book Six Seconds in Dallas. But they just didn't have the clout and government backing to round men up for viewing and showing a film. Because the fact is there was no widespread government conspiracy to conceal the film. 

Now, that's not to say the original film wasn't tampered with. We know someone at Life cut out some frames before providing it to the Warren Commission. This was supposedly just sloppy handling. But it seems a bit of a coincidence that frames showing Jackie turn to look at her husband BEFORE the Warren Commission would conclude he'd been hit would just so happen to disappear. But they weren't disappeared by the government as a whole. We know this because Groden would later get access to an unedited SS copy showing those frames. 

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17 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Perhaps. That does not explain this: 

 

At the time LIFE went to press, it was thought JFK had been shot in the throat. But Oswald was behind JFK, in the TSBD. So, LIFE solves the problem and reports, 

"The 8mm [Zapruder] film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed to the sniper's nest [in the TSBD] just before he clutches it." 

This is truly creative lying, showing a scope and scale for deception and disinformation that must have impressed envious peers in Moscow and Peking. 

Now explain to me when, in the Z-film, you see JFK turn and face the TSBD.  Was LIFE trying to make profits with that fabricated reporting? 

This LIFE reporting does color perceptions of what happened to the Z-film. In truth, it was not shown to the bulk of the American public for years and years. 

I suspect this was because many observers, rightly or wrongly, would see JFK suddenly thrust to his own back and left as evidence of a shot from the right and front---from the GK in other words. 

This thrust of JFK (seen in the Z film) coincides with the witness testimony of the sound of shots and gunsmoke at the GK. 

Let us say, I am skeptical the Z-film was repressed for pecuniary considerations only. 

(As an aside, I suspect the GK was a "smoke and bang show," a diversion. But I cannot explain why JFK was thrust to own back and right so violently.)

I'm surprised, Ben, that you missed an opportunity to attack the deep state, and instead went after Life. As discussed on my website, several articles published BEFORE Life's article theorizing the head turn was published, had made a similar claim, with some of them citing government sources... So, someone in the government, presumably the FBI, which was feeding the papers a lot of garbage, told some in the press the entrance wound to the throat could be explained by JFK's turning his head in the film. And Paul Mandel repeated this tripe. So shame on him. But he didn't invent it. 

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1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

The alteration of the film is extremely problematic. For one, the extant film, as I think you acknowledge, suggests an impact from the front. This makes little sense if this film was in fact altered by secret spook scientists at a secret spook lab to hide a shot from the front. 

As far as the rest of it... CD Jackson was yes indeed a man with government ties. It's near certain his purchase of the film was inspired by yes indeed his (and perhaps others') desire to keep the film out of the public domain, and off television. Many Americans (and not just government sycophants) thought the showing of such a film on television or in theaters extremely disrespectful. And yet, even so, Life published large color images of the President's murder, and used the film as an advertisement for the superiority of Life Magazine for decades, to the extent even that Life was still publishing expensive books featuring the images up through the 50th. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a new book or magazine of this nature on the stands today. Life made an investment, and the investment undoubtedly paid off. 

As far as allowing people to study the frames... Zapruder provided copies to the SS, who then shared it with the FBI, before selling his personal copy to Life. These copies were viewed by dozens if not hundreds of SS, FBI, and WC personnel. Small black and white photos of the frames were then published by the WC. It is my understanding that the earliest films shown to the public were made from photos of these frames. In any event, within a few years men like Thompson, Groden, and Lifton had gained access to early copies and slides, which they then used to create their own color films. And Garrison got a copy provided from Life, which was shown at trial before an audience numerous times, and was considered the single-most effective piece of evidence shown the jury and audience. And in another few years, Groden began showing his film at colleges. This was years before he showed it on Geraldo. So, the film was available to those with an interest. All the early researchers viewed it long before it was ever shown on TV. and none of them were arrested by the thought police or the Life copyright police. And it wasn't because Life didn't care. I believe Life sued Thompson over his use of the film in his book Six Seconds in Dallas. But they just didn't have the clout and government backing to round men up for viewing and showing a film. Because the fact is there was no widespread government conspiracy to conceal the film. 

Now, that's not to say the original film wasn't tampered with. We know someone at Life cut out some frames before providing it to the Warren Commission. This was supposedly just sloppy handling. But it seems a bit of a coincidence that frames showing Jackie turn to look at her husband BEFORE the Warren Commission would conclude he'd been hit would just so happen to disappear. But they weren't disappeared by the government as a whole. We know this because Groden would later get access to an unedited SS copy showing those frames. 

PS: The alteration of the film is extremely problematic. For one, the extant film, as I think you acknowledge, suggests an impact from the front. This makes little sense if this film was in fact altered by secret spook scientists at a secret spook lab to hide a shot from the front. 
 
RO:  Yes, I acknowledge that.  The CIA tried to alter or obscure evidence of a frontal shot. But they failed.  Which is why Life, on their behalf, gave Zapruder another $100,000, a lot of money in those days, to keep the film from the public while they peppered them with the WR fairytale.
 
PS:  As far as the rest of it... CD Jackson was yes indeed a man with government ties. It's near certain his purchase of the film was inspired by yes indeed his (and perhaps others') desire to keep the film out of the public domain, and off television. Many Americans (and not just government sycophants) thought the showing of such a film on television or in theaters extremely disrespectful. And yet, even so, Life published large color images of the President's murder, and used the film as an advertisement for the superiority of Life Magazine for decades, to the extent even that Life was still publishing expensive books featuring the images up through the 50th. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if there's a new book or magazine of this nature on the stands today. Life made an investment, and the investment undoubtedly paid off. 
 
RO:  I'm not sure Life, or the Luce empire, invested any of their own money in the project.  As you know the CIA has a virtually unlimited budget and no one knows what they spend it on.
 
PS:  As far as allowing people to study the frames... Zapruder provided copies to the SS, who then shared it with the FBI, before selling his personal copy to Life. These copies were viewed by dozens if not hundreds of SS, FBI, and WC personnel.
 
RO:  None of these people was going to spill any beans.
 
PS:  Small black and white photos of the frames were then published by the WC. It is my understanding that the earliest films shown to the public were made from photos of these frames. In any event, within a few years men like Thompson, Groden, and Lifton had gained access to early copies and slides, which they then used to create their own color films. And Garrison got a copy provided from Life, which was shown at trial before an audience numerous times, and was considered the single-most effective piece of evidence shown the jury and audience. And in another few years, Groden began showing his film at colleges. This was years before he showed it on Geraldo. So, the film was available to those with an interest. All the early researchers viewed it long before it was ever shown on TV. and none of them were arrested by the thought police or the Life copyright police. And it wasn't because Life didn't care. I believe Life sued Thompson over his use of the film in his book Six Seconds in Dallas. But they just didn't have the clout and government backing to round men up for viewing and showing a film. Because the fact is there was no widespread
government conspiracy to conceal the film. 
 
RO:  Whoa.  You went overboard with that last sentence.  There *was* a widespread conspiracy to conceal the film.  None of the bits and pieces you cite--the showing to the 12 people on the Garrison jury, Groden showing a version to college students, or some early researchers seeing a version--effectively damaged that conspiracy. 
 
PS:  Now, that's not to say the original film wasn't tampered with. We know someone at Life cut out some frames before providing it to the Warren Commission. This was supposedly just sloppy handling. But it seems a bit of a coincidence that frames showing Jackie turn to look at her husband BEFORE the Warren Commission would conclude he'd been hit would just so happen to disappear. But they weren't disappeared by the government as a whole. We know this because Groden would later get access to an unedited SS copy showing those frames. 
 
RO:  Do you have an idea what happened at Hawkeye Works that weekend?  Why was the film sent there? 
 
Btw, Life and the Luce empire were and are part of the deep state.
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6 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

I'm surprised, Ben, that you missed an opportunity to attack the deep state, and instead went after Life. As discussed on my website, several articles published BEFORE Life's article theorizing the head turn was published, had made a similar claim, with some of them citing government sources... So, someone in the government, presumably the FBI, which was feeding the papers a lot of garbage, told some in the press the entrance wound to the throat could be explained by JFK's turning his head in the film. And Paul Mandel repeated this tripe. So shame on him. But he didn't invent it. 

PS--

You missed a key element here. 

LIFE magazine, which had possession of the Z-film, itself made the claim that, "The 8mm [Zapruder] film shows the President turning his body far around to the right as he waves to someone in the crowd. His throat is exposed to the sniper's nest [in the TSBD] just before he clutches it." 

So, LIFE is saying, "We watched the film, and it records JFK turning to face the TSBD, and that is when he was shot in the throat." 

Sure maybe government authority figures (aka the Deep State) told LIFE to print lies. But they had possession of the film, and they knew they were printing lies. Not merely repeating what they were told. 

I am puzzled that you think LIFE is somehow not responsible for, not mere omission, not mere government stenography, but active perfidy. 

Yes, I use the expression "Deep State" as shorthand. A book of nuances could be written, and have been, defining the "shadow government," the "Deep State," "the national security state," globalism and so on. 

I hope you grant me a little leeway, the use of shorthand expressions, in relatively brief comments. 

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In my opinion and regardless of whether the film was edited or not, it doesn't seem to matter too much whether anything was left in that many of us would deem incriminating. Because 60 years on there are still many people who believe everything that they were told

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