The Kennedy Tapes

[Johnny Cairns]

This book is simply a must read. The transcripts of the White House meetings held during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It shows just what certain elements of President Kennedys government were advocating for to deal with the Cuban problem in 1962. Terrifyingly if it wasn’t for the humanity and leadership of The President, The Attorney General and Ted Sorensen to name a few, this world would have effectively ended during October 1962. It also proves quite clearly that we will never see the likes of men like Jack and Bobby Kennedy again, and we are all the lesser for it. 
 

Edited Monday at 06:07 PM by Johnny Cairns

[Matthew Koch]

I found the DRE attack on a hotel during it to be one of the most interesting/least talked about aspects of the crisis. 

I wonder if AI could do a translation of the audio now a days, because I don't trust Philip Zelikow..

[James DiEugenio]

I always felt that this was the best book on the Missile Crisis.  Because its in everyone's own words.

Plus there is good background material on the flow of events, and also why the taping system was installed.

The two most interesting meetings I thought were the ones with the JCS, and the one with the congressional leaders. Even the latter had become hawkish, even Fulbright, who was the lone dissenting voice against the Bay of Pigs. After that meeting RFK says to his brother, if this doesn't end you are going to be impeached.

And when Kennedy asks LBJ for his opinions, Oh man.

[Johnny Cairns]

36 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I always felt that this was the best book on the Missile Crisis.  Because its in everyone's own words.

Plus there is good background material on the flow of events, and also why the taping system was installed.

The two most interesting meetings I thought were the ones with the JCS, and the one with the congressional leaders. Even the latter had become hawkish, even Fulbright, who was the lone dissenting voice against the Bay of Pigs. After that meeting RFK says to his brother, if this doesn't end you are going to be impeached.

And when Kennedy asks LBJ for his opinions, Oh man.

I agree Jim. 

When JFK asks LBJ what his thoughts were at the first meeting Johnson states,

”I think that we’re committed at any time that we feel that there’s a buildup that in any way endangers, to take whatever action we must take to assure our security… I think the question with the base is whether we take it out or whether we talk about it, and either alternative is a very distressing one. But, of the two, I would take it out.” 
 

Thank god Kennedy was President. 

Edited Monday at 07:03 PM by Johnny Cairns

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Johnny Cairns said:

This book is simply a must read. The transcripts of the White House meetings held during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It shows just what certain elements of President Kennedys government were advocating for to deal with the Cuban problem in 1962. Terrifyingly if it wasn’t for the humanity and leadership of The President, The Attorney General and Ted Sorensen to name a few, this world would have effectively ended during October 1962. It also proves quite clearly that we will never see the likes of men like Jack and Bobby Kennedy again, and we are all the lesser for it. 
 

Agree.

The Story simplified:

1. JFK, against the counsel of the military establishment, saved the world from nuclear holocaust in 1962.

Including me in the 3rd grade at the time, wide-eyed and scared to death when my Dad said after JFK's Cuban missile crisis speech on the radio to my mother and brother and me: "we just don't know what will happen." And at Portage Path Elementary School in Akron, Ohio, where we had what were called "disaster drills" or "air raid drills" in which the school children were led orderly by teachers to large rooms or gymnasiums to practice lining up on the floor, kneeled forward face down, foreheads almost touching the floor, one arm behind the neck, the other in front over the eyes, spinal column exposed but everything else protected. 

2. JFK's refusal to be a team player with prevailing military establishment counsel caused him to be removed extrajudicially from power, with the collateral effect of his being dead. Not only from where JFK had crossed lines already, but the sense of where that might go, a popular president no longer taking direction from the best strategic minds in America's interests, as regarded.  

End Of Story (other than the historical question of interest of how it happened in the specifics).

Storybook christ-figure story: he gave his life that others may live.

Of course all mythifying--the dreams of dreamers--the folk legends and songs--the timeless stories of the past--the imagery of the MLK Jr. "I Have a Dream" speech--poetry--are part-fact and part-lyrical story built up out of it. 

But it is the essential story "truth" in these stories become timeless that take traction in universal appeal, underneath the historians' labors to get at excavation of facts and true narrative truth. 

Edited Monday at 07:49 PM by Greg Doudna

[Matthew Koch]

1 minute ago, Greg Doudna said:

Agree.

The Story simplified:

Storybook christ-figure story: he gave his life that others may live.

 

?

[James DiEugenio]

I agree Johnny.

And we all know now that the Russians had given Castro tactical nukes, both short range, about 25 miles, and long range, about 75 miles.

Any invasion force would have been incinerated.

Edited Tuesday at 09:04 AM by James DiEugenio

[Johnny Cairns]

46 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I agree Johnny.

And we all know now that the Russians had given Castro tactical nukes, both short range, about 25 miles, and long range, about 75 miles.

And invasion force would have been incinerated.

It would have been a disaster. Greg is right, it was Christ like the stance the President took in October 1962. Have you ever heard this? Robert Kennedy was interviewed weeks before his death in 1968 by David Frost. He talks about his greatest achievement, his contribution during the Cuban Missile Crisis. 
https://historical-records.com/records/david-frost-talks-to-bobby-kennedy/
 

[James DiEugenio]

No I have never seen that one , thanks.

[Johnny Cairns]

It’s very candid. He talks about Jack a lot. Every time Robert Kennedy talks openly about his brother, I hear the grief, the pain of November 1963 still in his voice. 

[Greg Doudna]

"Abraham, Martin, and John", by Dion

 

[Stu Wexler]

I would point out my students that debates about the greatest presidents often revolve around how said president handled fundamental challenges, crises and emergencies. The more daunting the challenge met the more credit goes to the POTUS. But I would also point out that that type of analysis, when *comparing* presidents, often intrinsically involves the same counterfactual question: "would someone else have done X if they had been president instead of [fill in the blank with FDR or Lincoln or Washington, etc.]"  We can try and deep dive into the counterfactual but it is often, at the end of the day, impossible to answer. With one exception. JFK. Facing a existential crisis for the entire world, JFK performed in ways we can safely say almost no other person would have done at the time. How can we say it? Because several people in the same room with him not only ran for president, but served as president (or VP) or was floated as a presidential candidate. And with the exception of maybe Stevenson and RFK -- who at times was also too hawkish for comfort-- every darn one of them expressed support for a response that we know would have led to nuclear war. JFK saved the world when many others of his stature would have ended it.

Stu

[Joseph McBride]

Ted Sorensen said that the Cuban Missile Crisis was the moment in history that John F. Kennedy was elected to handle.

The other hero of that crisis was Nikita Khrushchev, who also lost his job as a result. If Kennedy

and Khrushchev had not shown restraint and wisdom, we wouldn't be here today.

[Joe Bauer]

11 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Ted Sorensen said that the Cuban Missile Crisis was the moment in history that John F. Kennedy was elected to handle.

The other hero of that crisis was Nikita Khrushchev, who also lost his job as a result. If Kennedy

and Khrushchev had not shown restraint and wisdom, we wouldn't be here today.

JFK's decision to stand up to and against the immense pressure to not do what he did is perhaps the greatest act of courage and wisdom any American president has ever been challenged to perform...by a mile. It WAS the greatest presidential act of wisdom and courage.

Heck, JFK had to stand against almost everyone in those meetings who wanted a military intervention response.

When you tell the JCS to stand down when they are furiously grumbling and calling you a traitor ( Doctor Strangelove LeMay ) behind your back... you have *****!

JFK was underestimated by almost all his adversaries regards his inner core belief strength and resolve. 

JFK and Khruschev did pay for their saving the world from their madmen adversaries.

JFK's wise and courageous resolve during the Cuban Missile Crisis will go down as one of the greatest acts of leadership in our history. I believe way more appreciated as time goes on.

How many Presidents would ever have the courage to counter/over-rule their entire JCS at a time when our nation was at the brink of war?

A full-on, all-out nuclear attack and counter attack by our two world powers would have set the entire world back beyond anyone's most dire thoughts imagination.

Collapse of financial systems, currency devaluation, commerce, shipping, air travel, destabilizing entire societies, enticing power grab others who no longer feared the US and the USSR. UN collapse, worldwide health epidemics, and on and on.

Complete chaos on a scale beyond measure.

Lemay and others like him not thinking this reality out was pure insanity.

JFK ( and Khrushchev) kept the world safe and sane in standing up to those madmen.

[Johnny Cairns]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

JFK's decision to stand up to and against the immense pressure to not do what he did is perhaps the greatest act of courage and wisdom any American president has ever been challenged to perform...by a mile. It WAS the greatest presidential act of wisdom and courage.

Heck, JFK had to stand against almost everyone in those meetings who wanted a military intervention response.

When you tell the JCS to stand down when they are furiously grumbling and calling you a traitor ( Doctor Strangelove LeMay ) behind your back... you have *****!

JFK was underestimated by almost all his adversaries regards his inner core belief strength and resolve. 

JFK and Khruschev did pay for their saving the world from their madmen adversaries.

JFK's wise and courageous resolve during the Cuban Missile Crisis will go down as one of the greatest acts of leadership in our history. I believe way more appreciated as time goes on.

How many Presidents would ever have the courage to counter/over-rule their entire JCS at a time when our nation was at the brink of war?

A full-on, all-out nuclear attack and counter attack by our two world powers would have set the entire world back beyond anyone's most dire thoughts imagination.

Collapse of financial systems, currency devaluation, commerce, shipping, air travel, destabilizing entire societies, enticing power grab others who no longer feared the US and the USSR. UN collapse, worldwide health epidemics, and on and on.

Complete chaos on a scale beyond measure.

Lemay and others like him not thinking this reality out was pure insanity.

JFK ( and Khrushchev) kept the world safe and sane in standing up to those madmen.

Few men are willing to brave the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of their society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change the world which yields most painfully to change. Robert Francis Kennedy.