How Would You Defend Lee Harvey Oswald In A Court Of Law?

[Benjamin Cole]

17 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

But the backward motion only occurs AFTER the forward motion at impact....as proven here:

DVP--

You may, or may not be right. I am not arguing that point. 

But really...show the Z-film at regular speed, even show it at slo-mo. You know, and I know, it looks like JFK is pushed back and to his left, away from the GK, by a blow to his head.

The same GK where many credible and earnest witnesses would testify in court they heard gunshots and saw gunsmoke. Sheesh, Sheriff Decker and Chief Curry would have to testify they initially thought shots came from the GK area-overpass-area.  That's some heavy brass. 

Add on Crenshaw's testimony.

This is not about whether you are correct or not. Maybe you are.

You asked the question, how would I defend LHO in an open court of law? 

Show that Z-film several times, over and over, and call Holland, Decker and Curry, and others to the stand, and Dr Crenshaw, Then I assume the jurors, at least one out of the 12, would have reasonable doubt. For that matter, I have reasonable doubt.

Why on earth is JFK violently pushed to his rear and backwards? It sure looks fishy. 

Reasonable doubts.

 

[David Von Pein]

44 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

But really...show the Z-film at regular speed, even show it at slo-mo. You know, and I know, it looks like JFK is pushed back and to his left, away from the GK, by a blow to his head.

So what? The fact is he's pushed forward first. Should I just ignore the initial FORWARD motion? Or should I pretend that it only looks that way due to a "blurring" or "smearing" effect? (Which is nonsense.)

 

44 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You asked the question, how would I defend LHO in an open court of law? 

Show that Z-film several times, over and over....

I will. And then I'll show the jury the super-slo-mo version to show them that what they see in "real time" cannot be relied on to be the full truth and the whole story. Let the jury watch this 50 times in a row instead....

 

Edited July 8 by David Von Pein

[Greg Doudna]

David, I was focusing on JFK but as you note Tippit weighs mightily on it. Therefore I would make an all-out robust defense of Oswald’s total innocence on Tippit, citing well-known witness fallibility on the Markham, Callaway et al lineups (lots of data on that), and unlike with JFK, making a robust case on Tippit for a different solution: that it was a luring of Tippit to that planned location and time and then ambush for a killing by a self-confessed experienced hitman working for Ruby, namely Craford. 

And here is the smoking gun the Oswald-killed-Tippit in an unplanned killing narrative has something seriously amiss: it’s that license plate number seen on Vaganov’s car in Oak Cliff that belongs to Tippit’s friend Carl Mather of Collins Radio who doesn’t live anywhere near Oak Cliff. Nobody on the Oswald LN side has explained that. Myers doesn’t. I doubt you have (willing to be corrected if you have). Vaganov looks like he was sent down by some mob boss in Philadelphia, Bruno probably, to just be helpful. Vaganov by his own account spent time in the building Craford lived, of all places in Dallas, the day or two before the Tippit killing. A car matching Vaganov’s red car description was sighted in front of Ruby’s apartment a few blocks away from the Tippit crime scene, at approximately the time Tippit was killed by his killer seen arriving walking from the east as if coming from Ruby’s apartment which agrees with that is where the car-less Craford could have been the night before since he was last seen with Ruby the previous night. 

Mather was close socially to Tippit, and Tippit looks like he was known to Oswald via the Dobbs House and then apparent looking for Oswald on Nov 22. Mather’s plates without Mather’s knowledge were taken from his car surreptitiously and put on Vaganov’s. Then Vaganov hightailed driving his red car to Philadelphia the day after the Tippit killing, just like Craford hightailed it for Michigan the same next day after the Tippit killing. Vaganov parked the car in covered enclosed storage out of sight in Philadelphia, then returned to Dallas again within hours in a different car. 

The license plates of Mather on a car in Oak Cliff that wasn’t Mather’s, but does appear involved in the Tippit killing, is fact, and the car those plates were on is the color of and can be identified as Vaganov’s car. 

And that Tippit was lured out of his car by being flagged by someone from the sidewalk, not Tippit motioning a suspicious unknown pedestrian on a sidewalk over to talk to him through his vent window, is a second fact.

And the killing of Tippit looking like a killing of a hitman, a contract hit, is a third fact, none of these three facts consistent with Oswald. 

The prints were lifted from the right front passenger door where the killer’s hands and arms were according to the witnesses who saw the killer talking to Tippit, and Oswald was excluded as a match to those prints. I would cite all that, and lack of sworn testimony establishing the shell hull chain of custody, and the paper-bag revolver find and its coverup as linked to a likely recent murder weapon disposal never otherwise identified; of the same kind of weapon that killed Tippit; plausibly tossed out a car window by Craford hours before he split Dallas for Michigan; and that paper-bag revolver as the true Tippit murder weapon not the revolver found on Oswald which was a framing. So the argument.

Tippit would have been a witness and/or alibi for Oswald, it would be argued, if he had not been executed by the identical mob/Ruby related ones who would be shown to have appeared to stalk and have intended to kill Oswald.

I would show a solution to the Walker shot, a solution to the Tippit killing, but not a solution to the JFK assassination. But with Oswald shown innocent on the other two, then as Chief Curry said, although Oswald’s rifle was in the building, and Oswald was in the building, Oswald could not be placed as the shooter of that rifle.

I would reinforce that with character references for Oswald; his love for JFK and lack of motive to kill JFK; the gunshot residue tests’ failure to find evidence on his cheek that he shot a rifle that day; his total lack of practice shooting in the runup; and the widespread testimonies of sniper experts finding it surprising at best (not believable at worst) that Oswald could be that accurate in shooting. I would press the point of why, if it was Oswald and his overriding desire was to succeed in killing Kennedy, he would not shoot before the limo turned on to Elm. There is only one explanation that explains that: an ambush involving more than one shooter at the 6th floor window was planned and it wasn’t for there. 

I would show the contrast between the actual lone nut assassins in history who took credit proudly for ideologically-motivated killings, and Oswald who did not do that, while also having no other established motive to kill JFK. 

Somebody or somebodies got to JFK, and set up Oswald for it, the argument. By a choice to fix upon Oswald, who had no more intent to kill JFK than he did Walker when Surrey was standing right with him when that shot was fired with Walker not in line of fire, the true killing of JFK goes unsolved.

So would be the summation to the jury. 

Edited July 8 by Greg Doudna

[Benjamin Cole]

38 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

So what? The fact is he's pushed forward first. Should I just ignore the initial FORWARD motion? Or should I pretend that it only looks that way due to a "blurring" or "smearing" effect? (Which is nonsense.)

 

I will. And then I'll show the jury the super-slo-mo version to show them that what they see in "real time" cannot be relied on to be the full truth and the whole story. Let the jury watch this 50 times in a row instead....

 

DVP--

thanks for your collegial commentary

Egads DVP, even that dreadful Z311-315 sequence...by Z315 JFK is being pushed back and to his left....

What would a jury think? All 12 jurors would believe that is proof of a shot from the rear? 

Well, I think we have exhausted this topic...we can agree we disagree. 

That is what the EF-JFKA is for. Different viewpoints. 

 

[David Von Pein]

16 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Egads DVP, even that dreadful Z311-315 sequence...by Z315 JFK is being pushed back and to his left....

What would a jury think? All 12 jurors would believe that is proof of a shot from the rear? 

Would you therefore argue to the jury that JFK was struck twice in the head---once from the rear and then once from the front?

If that's the argument, how would you then explain why the THREE autopsy surgeons took the stand to say pretty definitively that there was only ONE entry wound in JFK's head....and that hole was in the rear of the head?

 

[Sean Coleman]

1. Get Lee a lawyer. Doesn’t have to be Perry Mason, just someone who can read & write.

2. Let the prosecution (preferably Posner or Bugliosi) outline their case.

3. Enjoy a coffee, peruse a classic car mag or do a puzzle.

4. Cast considerable doubt on everything the prosecutor brought forth.

5. Flick through the mag or finish the puzzle as the foreman reveals his “omg, can’t believe this ever came to court. What a waste of taxpayers money” verdict.

6. Revel in much glee and hilarity as Posner and/or Bugliosi are tarred and feathered, mounted backwards on a donkey and sent on their way down Stemmons.

 

My point is, with so much conflicting evidence it would have been thrown out.

[David Von Pein]

58 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

And the killing of Tippit looking like a killing of a hitman, a contract hit... 

Oh for Pete sake. That's pretty far-fetched. (To put it mildly.)

The killing of Tippit looked just like what it was --- a guy who didn't want to be apprehended for shooting the President, so he shoots Officer Tippit too so he can remain at large (at least for a little while longer).

 

Edited July 8 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

45 minutes ago, Sean Coleman said:

1. Get Lee a lawyer. Doesn’t have to be Perry Mason, just someone who can read & write.

2. Let the prosecution (preferably Posner or Bugliosi) outline their case.

3. Enjoy a coffee, peruse a classic car mag or do a puzzle.

4. Cast considerable doubt on everything the prosecutor brought forth.

5. Flick through the mag or finish the puzzle as the foreman reveals his “omg, can’t believe this ever came to court. What a waste of taxpayers money” verdict.

6. Revel in much glee and hilarity as Posner and/or Bugliosi are tarred and feathered, mounted backwards on a donkey and sent on their way down Stemmons.

 

My point is, with so much conflicting evidence it would have been thrown out.

Love those classic cars...to me, cars from the 50s and 60s. The chrome-mobiles have never been matched for bravura styling and outlandish confidence.  

Verily, an LHO murder trial jury would likely have reasonable doubt. If only that something fishy is going on. So much evidence of a shot from GK. 

One possibility is for Wade to prosecute LHO as part of conspiracy, even if LHO did not fire the lethal shot. Accept that there was a shot from GK, but that LHO is covering up who it was. That might work--and remember, people really hated LHO and did not want to look soft on communism. 

[Benjamin Cole]

54 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Would you therefore argue to the jury that JFK was struck twice in the head---once from the rear and then once from the front?

If that's the argument, how would you then explain why the THREE autopsy surgeons took the stand to say pretty definitively that there was only ONE entry wound in JFK's head....and that hole was in the rear of the head?

 

You still have Crenshaw saying the shot was from the front and all the GK witnesses, and the Z film showing JFK pushed violently back to his left. 

Remember, you need all 12 jurors to believe beyond reasonable doubt. 

Well, I will let you have the floor. Have the last say, as it this is your thread. 

[Joe Bauer]

11 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

But why on Earth would anyone "in the world of black ops" have had any desire (or need) to mill amongst the bystanders in Dealey Plaza at the exact time of the assassination? That makes zero sense (IMO).

Dealey Plaza would have been the last place on the planet a co-conspirator would want to be during that critical point in time. (And you're surely not suggesting that anyone who would be visible in pictures at street level could possibly have actually been a gunman, are you?)

If this was a planned black-ops operation of course there would be assets on the ground in Dealey Plaza. Radio operators. Logistic coordinators. Someone watching the entire scene and crowd there to be ready to give the final "Go" order versus a "Stand Down" one?

The dark complexion man standing next to the "Umbrella" man a possible suspect in this role.

Pictures of him just after the kill shots show some solid object protruding starkly from his back of coat and/or pants pocket area. Something large enough to be a walkie-talkie. That is what I see in those pictures.

 

Maybe the Umbrella Man's pumping his umbrella up and down was a visual signal that the hit was " A GO?"

 

How about others perhaps keeping bystanders from wandering into any area that may have harbored other perps - behind the picket fence for example?

Men with fake Secret Service credentials were reported up in that area immediately after the shooting.

How about a similar situation behind the Texas School Book Depository building back entrance to allow for the safe escape of any other possible suspects?

Others in place throughout the Dallas area to coordinate any other perp escape efforts. Maybe a pilot with a small plane as well for the same reason?

I believe that some people connected to such nefarious killing activities may very well harbor a sadistic psychopathic proclivity to want to see their bloody hits come down in person.

Someone like rabid JFK hating Joseph Milteer?

Many Mafia hits in public locations will have their planners watching from the crowd. They would get a thrill as this is part of their killer psychopathy.

E. Howard Hunt lied about where he was on 11/22,1963. His own children stated he wasn't with them on that day. He could have been somewhere in the Dallas area and not necessarily in Dealey Plaza. Maybe Frank Sturgis as well.

There are 3 people shown in Dealey Plaza ground level bystanders photos that intrigue me.

William "Rip" Robertson. Just read his covert action bio. Major player in that area.

There is a super tall character who imo resembles Gerry Patrick Hemming also.

Maybe David Morales?

Who knows who else.

Edited July 8 by Joe Bauer

[Jonathan Cohen]

53 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Others in place throughout the Dallas area to coordinate any other perp escape efforts. Maybe a pilot with a small plane as well for the same reason?

Boy, these conspirators sure were smart and careful to be personally present in Dallas during the hit for all to see, and to be captured in numerous films and photos of the crime, aren't they?

[Robert Morrow]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

So what? The fact is he's pushed forward first. Should I just ignore the initial FORWARD motion? Or should I pretend that it only looks that way due to a "blurring" or "smearing" effect? (Which is nonsense.)

 

I will. And then I'll show the jury the super-slo-mo version to show them that what they see in "real time" cannot be relied on to be the full truth and the whole story. Let the jury watch this 50 times in a row instead....

 

Did it ever occur to you that JFK was thrust a tad forward when Greer hit the brakes after the first shots because he knew/suspected that the limo was being hit in an ambush and he did not know exactly what to do.

Whenever I drive a car and have to slam on the brakes, items in my car are tossed forward.

But the major and blatantly obvious move is JFK's head being tossed hard "back and to the left" which implies a head kill shot from the front right, i.e. behind the stockade fence on the Grassy Knoll.

 

[Steve Roe]

5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

And here is the smoking gun the Oswald-killed-Tippit in an unplanned killing narrative has something seriously amiss: it’s that license plate number seen on Vaganov’s car in Oak Cliff that belongs to Tippit’s friend Carl Mather of Collins Radio who doesn’t live anywhere near Oak Cliff. Nobody on the Oswald LN side has explained that. Myers doesn’t. I doubt you have (willing to be corrected if you have). Vaganov looks like he was sent down by some mob boss in Philadelphia, Bruno probably, to just be helpful. Vaganov by his own account spent time in the building Craford lived, of all places in Dallas, the day or two before the Tippit killing. A car matching Vaganov’s red car description was sighted in front of Ruby’s apartment a few blocks away from the Tippit crime scene, at approximately the time Tippit was killed by his killer seen arriving walking from the east as if coming from Ruby’s apartment which agrees with that is where the car-less Craford could have been the night before since he was last seen with Ruby the previous night. 

Greg, seriously Vaganov had nothing to do with the Tippit shooting. This is an old myth. I highly suggest you read the Esquire magazine article in August 1967 about Vaganov. Salandria, a paranoid conspiracy theorist, was involved in this as well as other people at that time. 

Here's a quote from that article: The grey jacket? (one found behind the Texaco station). The laundry check turned up nothing. But since we now had Vaganov in our possession (they were interviewing him), I ascertained his sleeve length (36 inches) and then called Marion Johnson at the National Archives and asked him to measure the grey jacket from the middle of the neck to the edge of the cuff. He called back in half of an hour: 32-1/2 inches, much too short. Furthermore, the manufacturer told me that they had outlets not only in Philadelphia, but in New Orleans, Dallas and points west, south and north. ----John Berendt, Esquire Magazine, August 1967.

BTW, Vaganov drove a white over red Thunderbird in Dallas.  

Oswald murdered Officer Tippit, tons of evidence to support that. 

[Joe Bauer]

5 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

The prints were lifted from the right front passenger door where the killer’s hands and arms were according to the witnesses who saw the killer talking to Tippit, and Oswald was excluded as a match to those prints.

Is this documented as true?

Maybe Oswald never laid his hands on the car. Just leaned into the window slightly with his hands in his pockets?

Whoever shot Tippit did so with a hit man's leave-no-chance over-kill training and sociopathic hardness and coldness.

Three direct hit body shots at maybe 6 feet away close range laid Tippit out on the ground.

To then walk up close to Tippit's prone upper body while he's probably already unconscious and pump a final "coup de grace" blast into his head is an illogical action for someone who wasn't a hardened hit man imo.

Gun shots are LOUD. If whoever shot Tippit and did so out of fear alone...I think they would know that those first three shots into Tippit would probably draw a crowd and high tail it out of there in a full speed run.

A person of that mind set wouldn't take more time than he had to rid himself of his immediate threat, again imo.

Yet, the shooter isn't satisfied with 3 direct hits into Tippit?

He uses up an extra few seconds walking right up to his prone upper body and blasting him into Kingdom Come with a close up shot into Tippit's temple?

And, according to one first hand eyewitness, the shooter then has the cold arrogant unremorseful temerity to say the following as he is quickly walking away from the scene:

Taxi driver William Scoggins was eating lunch while parked on Patton Avenue.  He testified he saw the officer's patrol car pass by and eventually pull up on the pedestrian. Though Scoggins said he had a limited view, he said he saw the officer get out of the car, heard gunshots and saw the officer fall. Hiding behind his cab, he saw the gunman pass him while muttering either "Poor damn cop" or "Poor dumb cop."  In a lineup, Scoggins later identified that man as Lee Harvey Oswald.^†

 

[Bill Brown]

5 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

You still have Crenshaw saying the shot was from the front and all the GK witnesses, and the Z film showing JFK pushed violently back to his left. 

 

Fact:  A bullet fired from the right front and striking the head will NOT cause the body to be pushed violently back and to the left.