Trump Assassination Attempt Discussion

[W. Niederhut]

5 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Fascists don't know what a tariff is.

Trump brags about all the billions of dollars the Chinese paid in tariffs.  That's a lie, of course.

Domestic wholesalers pay the tariffs, not the producers.  In the US it's Amazon, Walmart, Target and Best Buy who pay the tariffs, the cost passed down to the consumers. 

Yeah, Cliff, and I wonder if Paul Rigby has studied the history of the 19th century Robber Barons of America's Gilded Age.

William McKinley was the last of the post-Civil War GOP Presidential puppets of the Gilded Age Robber Barons, prior to the rise of the Progressive Era reforms of Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson-- establishing child labor laws, the six-day work week, and food safety regulations on corporate industry.

So, comparisons of Donald Trump and McKinley are apt.   Trump will do anything for the corporate plutocracy, and let the public welfare be damned.

Trump is, in essence, the billionaires' useful idiot-- the candidate who recently pledged to cut more taxes for his billionaire donors and sabotage climate change mitigation for Big Oil.

[Matt Allison]

So Putin's propaganda push is to claim there were 2 people shooting at Trump... and BOTH missed?

hahahahaha

Anyway, back to reality:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trump-shooter-thomas-crooks-final-search-on-samsung-phone-was-for-porn?ref=home

 

"Early Friday, CNN reported that he searched for information about Ethan Crumbley, the mass shooter who murdered four students at his Michigan high school in 2021. Crooks also searched for information about the prosecution of Crumbley’s parents, CNN reported. They were both sentenced to a minimum of 10 years in prison for not securing the handgun that he used to commit the mass shooting."

[Kirk Gallaway]

8 hours ago, Paul Rigby said:

Trump on Taxes, Tariffs, Jerome Powell and More

He keeps circling back to William McKinley, who he says raised enough revenue through tariffs during his turn-of-the-20th-century presidency to avoid instituting a federal income tax yet never got the appropriate credit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2024-trump-interview/

The gulf between Trump and the Wall Street establishment encapsulated!

 

Re: Rigby article I never know with literate pro Trumpers what their motivation is? 

 

It's a good article from the pro business point of view, rather comprehensive, going into a number of economic issues affecting business. But of all the issues brought up  the number one issue Rigby seems to have glomed on to is that Trump's policies are like William Mc Kinley 120 years ago.(as if Trump's ever read of Mc Kinley before some economist tried to peddle his views on Trump to influence him in his direction!)

 

 Obviously Rigby fathoms himself as a historian and an economic wonk. So I assume, tariffs will untie the hands and free up the economic initiative of both the U.S. and U.K. and propel a new era of prosperity?

 So are you a trickle down economics guy Paul? Who believes then that domestic Laissez faire policies and extreme cutting of regulation will free up the U.S. economic tiger and that it not only would eliminate much of the need for the '"administrative state" but if adhered to 120 years ago may have actually forestalled  Teddy Roosevelt's establishing an income tax until much later?

That notion is so absurd!

 

Perhaps Rigby would favor a worldwide scaling down of tax liability  among the developed nations, that eventually would extend to the U.K. in particular possibly to protect  your family inheritance?

 

You're not that interested in dialog, so I have no idea what your motivation is.

[Cliff Varnell]

3 highly inflationary Trump promises:

10% across the board tariffs on imported goods.

Deportation of 45% of the agricultural workforce.

Deportation of 25% of construction workforce.

 

3 budget-busting Trump promises:

Tax cuts for the top 1%.

An "Iron Dome" national air defense system.

Construction of detention camps for the undocumented and tent cities for the homeless -- an American gulag.

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

But of all the issues brought up  the number one issue Rigby seems to have glomed on to is that Trump's policies are like William Mc Kinley 120 years ago

Tariffs are nothing but a tax on consumers. Inflationary and horrible for those that can least afford it.

A thoroughly horrible idea.

 

37 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

3 highly inflationary Trump promises:

10% across the board tariffs on imported goods.

Deportation of 45% of the agricultural workforce.

Deportation of 25% of construction workforce.

 

3 budget-busting Trump promises:

Tax cuts for the top 1%.

An "Iron Dome" national air defense system.

Construction of detention camps for the undocumented and tent cities for the homeless -- an American gulag.

There is no honest or reasonable rationale for electing Donald Trump.

He was by far the worst President in history already, and he would be worse the 2nd time around.

[Matt Allison]

Surprise! Ear is all good now, folks! No need for any bandage!

[Nick Bartetzko]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Nick,

     A thoughtful post.

     As a psychiatrist, I have long been very interested in the subject of mass shooters in modern U.S. history-- going back to the 1999 Columbine High School shooting here in Colorado.  I also knew two of the professors at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center who were in contact with James Holmes before the 2012 Aurora theater (Batman) massacre.  So, I have tended to view these cases from the perspective of the history and psychology of American mass shooters. 

      I tend to think of individual gun homicides as a separate issue from domestic terrorism. 

      Statistically, the overwhelming majority of mass shootings and acts of domestic terrorism in the modern U.S. have been committed angry white males.  (The Virginia Tech shooter, Cho, was a notable exception, in addition to the black D.C. assassin, and the young black guy in Oregon.)  Off the top of my head, I can't think of any cases of angry Hispanic males engaging in mass shootings of Anglos in the U.S.

     Obviously, we're still in the process of trying to get the facts about the assassination attempt on Trump, and conspiracy theories abound.  Reading some of the MAGA media references here on the forum (from Dan "Own the Libs" Bongino, Vigilant Fox, "Jesse on Fire," et.al) has been an education in itself for me!

      No wonder MAGA guys are so angry!  Some of these MAGA media stars-- like "Jesse on Fire" -- sound, frankly, hypomanic, perhaps as a result of taking anabolic steroids.  The guy is seething with so much rage that I found it stressful to watch more than a few seconds of his YouTube video.

      As for your claim about "hateful rhetoric on both sides," it's false equivalence.

      Donald Trump surged ahead in the 2016 Republican primaries after he started actively denigrating Hispanic and black Americans, and he has been fomenting racial hostility and violence ever since.

      There is nothing comparable coming from liberal Democrats.

      Hate crimes have surged in the U.S., beginning in 2016, in sync with Trump's white supremacist rhetoric.  He has normalized and incited white racist violence.  The El Paso Walmart Massacre and Buffalo grocery store massacre are the worst examples.

       Let's recall that Trump told Jerry Jones and the NFL owners that, "It lifts me," to attack the Black Lives Matter civil rights protesters.

        But, getting back to Crooks, one of my professors at Harvard Medical School, the forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Thomas Gutheil, once said, "Psychiatrists have expertise in treating mental illnesses, not in predicting what mentally ill people will do."  As an example, I once treated a patient at the Colorado State Hospital who shot a stranger in a local library because she heard voices of "the village people" telling her to shoot the man.

       We still don't know what motivated Crooks to shoot Trump.

Lack of motive in Trump attack frustrates public, but fits a pattern

Terrorism analysts say Trump’s would-be assassin is among a string of high-profile assailants with unknown or murky reasons for turning violent.

Lack of motive in Trump attack frustrates public, but fits a pattern - The Washington Post

July 20, 2024

Dr WN,

Thanks for your comments and perspective. I am troubled by the occasional angry white male shootings and I'm not able to counter your comments as I wouldn't know where to look right now to source the data. The first time I can recall a deranged incident like that was the University of Texas shooter... a white male I believe... who fired from the top of a tower on campus and killed students and faculty. That was a long time ago....in 1966. Another incident was in the Los Angles area where a heavily armed individual terrorized the area and used very high caliber weapons in a battle against police. He was finally killed by police and his mother filed a wrongful death claim as I recall that was dismissed. That may have been 10 to 15 years ago. Then we had the 2017 incredibly horrific shooting from a hotel in Las Vegas at an outdoor venue. I am not aware of any specific reasons why these individuals "snapped". 
As to hateful rhetoric causing many of these angry white male shootings, would it really be the angry rhetoric or would it more likely be a lifetime of anger having been built by a horrible family or school situation, possibly bullying, or other societal factors. As a layman, my guess would be that someone who loses control mentally would be more heavily influenced by long-term factors, but maybe with angry rhetoric being the final trigger. Your thoughts would be appreciated. 
 

We still have the issue of gangs killing each other and innocent victims losing their lives in the inner cities and the prevalence appears to be with non-white gangs. I realize this is not your area of interest, but would appreciate your thoughts as a psychiatrist as to what specific means would be necessary  to reverse this trend. 
 

I think the issue of hateful rhetoric on both sides is a valid one. I still remember the Kathy Griffin gory photo of Trump's head that some people thought was hilarious. The fact that some would think it to be funny worries me to a great extent as well. 

[W. Niederhut]

12 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Dr WN,

Thanks for your comments and perspective. I am troubled by the occasional angry white male shootings and I'm not able to counter your comments as I wouldn't know where to look right now to source the data. The first time I can recall a deranged incident like that was the University of Texas shooter... a white male I believe... who fired from the top of a tower on campus and killed students and faculty. That was a long time ago....in 1966. Another incident was in the Los Angles area where a heavily armed individual terrorized the area and used very high caliber weapons in a battle against police. He was finally killed by police and his mother filed a wrongful death claim as I recall that was dismissed. That may have been 10 to 15 years ago. Then we had the 2017 incredibly horrific shooting from a hotel in Las Vegas at an outdoor venue. I am not aware of any specific reasons why these individuals "snapped". 
As to hateful rhetoric causing many of these angry white male shootings, would it really be the angry rhetoric or would it more likely be a lifetime of anger having been built by a horrible family or school situation, possibly bullying, or other societal factors. As a layman, my guess would be that someone who loses control mentally would be more heavily influenced by long-term factors, but maybe with angry rhetoric being the final trigger. Your thoughts would be appreciated. 
 

We still have the issue of gangs killing each other and innocent victims losing their lives in the inner cities and the prevalence appears to be with non-white gangs. I realize this is not your area of interest, but would appreciate your thoughts as a psychiatrist as to what specific means would be necessary  to reverse this trend. 
 

I think the issue of hateful rhetoric on both sides is a valid one. I still remember the Kathy Griffin gory photo of Trump's head that some people thought was hilarious. The fact that some would think it to be funny worries me to a great extent as well. 

Nick,

     I agree with your point about bullying and related causes of anger in mass shooters.  

     In the Columbine High School case, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were bullied by some of the high school jocks, and even stuffed into lockers.

     The point I was making about Trump's rhetoric and hate crimes is mainly statistical.  There was a definite upsurge in hate crimes against Hispanics after Trump started to publicly denigrate Hispanic people in 2016.  And the El Paso Walmart Massacre happened after Trump and Fox started amping up their xenophobic rhetoric about "Mexicans invading the border."

     The Kathy Griffin thing was simply stupid, and anomalous for "liberals."  It was intended as humor but was simply bizarre and inappropriate.  I don't know anyone who thought it was funny or acceptable.

      Contrast that with the angry Trumpsters who shared and celebrated the meme of Biden being bound and gagged in the back of a pick-up truck(!)

     

Edited yesterday at 02:17 PM by W. Niederhut

[Nick Bartetzko]

25 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Nick,

     I agree with your point about bullying and related causes of anger in mass shooters.  

     In the Columbine High School case, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were bullied by some of the high school jocks, and even locked in lockers.

     The point I was making about Trump's rhetoric and hate crimes is mainly statistical.  There was a definite upsurge in hate crimes against Hispanics after Trump started to publicly denigrate Hispanic people in 2016.  And the El Paso Walmart Massacre happened after Trump and Fox started amping up their xenophobic rhetoric about "Mexicans invading the border."

     The Kathy Griffin thing was simply stupid, and anomalous for "liberals."  It was intended as humor but was simply bizarre and inappropriate.  I don't know anyone who thought it was funny or acceptable.

      Contrast that with the angry Trumpsters who shared and celebrated the meme of Biden being bound and gagged in the back of a pick-up truck(!)

     

Dr WN,

Thanks again for your comments and perspective. I was also hoping for a response as to the problem with inner city violence, but maybe that would be more appropriate for a sociologist to respond to. 

Nick

[Karl Kinaski]

The Water Tower Man( IMO To lively to be just a shadow ...)

IMO the man (agent) shot Crooks over the right eye after Crooks had abandoned his rifle and was in the process of crawling back from the ridge of the roof. This would be the final  single shot you can hear on the audio well after all other shots. 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:05 AM by Karl Kinaski

[Cliff Varnell]

4 hours ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Dr WN,

Thanks again for your comments and perspective. I was also hoping for a response as to the problem with inner city violence, but maybe that would be more appropriate for a sociologist to respond to. 

Nick

Watch The Wire.

One of my favorite scenes.

 

[Karl Kinaski]

"... a shot fired ... t toward he blue water tank ... the blue water tank, that's right ..."  ... IMO the  shot was fired from the blue water tank not towards it ... IMO It was the last shot fired well after all other shots ... the Crooks kill shot ..  

 

Edited yesterday at 07:57 AM by Karl Kinaski

[Cliff Varnell]

"Americans are stupid people by and large.  We pretty much believe whatever we're told."

"The bigger the lie -- the more they believe."

-- The Wire

Edited yesterday at 08:12 AM by Cliff Varnell

[Karl Kinaski]

Mel Gibson  News on  X
 

Quote

 

@MelGibsonNew

The rumor about Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle resigning on Monday is just a rumor for now. What is not a rumor is how she colluded with Department of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas to have Donald Trump assassinated last Saturday, with the cooperation of FBI Director Christopher Wray. Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle denied extra security for Trump. DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas replaced Secret Service agents with untrained and incompetent personnel to make Trump an easier target. FBI Director Christopher Wray is handling the cover-up and clean-up operations.

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

9 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Watch The Wire.

One of my favorite scenes.

 

Thank you. You ever so clearly responded to my question.