The CIA learned its lesson well in 1963

[Gil Jesus]

How do you remove a political figure ?

1. Demonize your target.

2. Bring him into his enemy's territory.

3. Remove his protection.

4. Let the nuts do the rest.

The tactic the CIA used in 1963 is the same tactic they're using today.

[Benjamin Cole]

Hi Gil--

I may post something on this. The CIA? Have they ever really changed? 

The hostility of intel community to Trump...can hardly be overstated. 

However, I am not convinced the Secret Service played a pre-event role 11/22/63 or 7/13/24. 

But...it is worth noting that the President alone appoints and approves continued employment the Secret Service director. 

"Cheatle assumed the office as director of the United States Secret Service in September 2022 by the appointment from President Joe Biden."

Indisputable: Cheatle (or Biden, or Biden's handlers) did not respond to Trump campaign requests for additional security, and then the SS left the prominent rooftop unguarded on 7/13/24.

Cheatle (or Biden) also refused requests by RFK2 for additional security. 

Then, Cheatle refused to answer questions put to her by House representatives on 7/22/24, despite being forced into the session by subpoena. 

Despite all that....

As of now, I just regard the 7/13/24 shooter as a lost soul.

Of course, the shooter is conveniently dead.  

I am keeping an open mind. 

 

Edited yesterday at 11:18 AM by Benjamin Cole

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Gil Jesus said:

How do you remove a political figure ?

1. Demonize your target.

2. Bring him into his enemy's territory.

3. Remove his protection.

4. Let the nuts do the rest.

The tactic the CIA used in 1963 is the same tactic they're using today.

C'mon, Gil.

Do you guys really think the Deep State would have selected a 22 year old nursing home aid as their assassin for a hit on Trump?

As for "demonization," Trump has demonized himself, by committing multiple felonies, including the incitement of his January 6th mob attack on Congress and his organization of slates of False Electors in multiple states.

The forum needs to get back to focusing on reality, instead of Lone Nutterism and allternate "facts."

[Mark Ulrik]

4 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

How do you remove a political figure ?

1. Demonize your target.

2. Bring him into his enemy's territory.

3. Remove his protection.

4. Let the nuts do the rest.

The tactic the CIA used in 1963 is the same tactic they're using today.

A most curious thread. It's stated in the title that the CIA, in 1963, learned (something) through painful experience ‒ at least that's how I believe most people would interpret the expression "learned its lesson". Is this about the Diem assassination? What was the lesson learned? As for using the same tactic today, has the CIA removed any political figures lately (that we know of)?

[Kirk Gallaway]

I apologize, but If we're going to make some allegations here. We have to deal with some of the current politics.

The intelligence agencies are much more regulated, much more bureaucratic than they were 60 years ago, and has been on a stiff rather narrow course., which doesn't mean there's never overreach. 

The biggest danger to that in the short term would be Trump getting rid of all the "administrative state" and employing his ideological cronies and sycophants, unless you think his judgment reigns Supreme and you weren't here for his first Presidency. They are the people who ignored Trump when he said he wanted to bomb Iran!

The current situation has so many checks and balances, lots of  abuses 60 years ago are not as likely to happen.

The same is true of "Operation mockingbird," Who on the left or right doesn't think that the MSM  has been unfair to their cause? I personally think the big issue was at the beginning was the MSM fascination with the Trump ratings that diverted them for subjecting Trump to any real scrutiny. But that's  just me!

Let me go further, Someone answer this: Is Merrick Garland really the "deep state"?  We've had 4 years to prosecute the Election fraud, false slates of electors and the 1/6 riots, the smoking gun tape recording of a  phone call, where Trump is not too ingeniously asking the Georgia Attorney General to find him 11,720 votes!

For 3 years we've known now that had Trump stole classified files  and refused to give  them back. This is a case many Republicans at the time, said was the strongest case against him. But after that, we now have knowledge he was intentionally hiding them and a Trump appointed judge throws it out! 

Where is thy deep state?

All they've been able to accomplish in 4 years is a conviction on the most minor charges of the 92 counts. Then to even the score, they reverse and bring charges and convict Hunter Biden on a gun charge.

Boy if you guys think the deep state is deep, you'd be 100 feet under water if Bobby or I was running the show. You'd really have something to whine about!

 

 

 

* the most real issue as far  the deep state in modern times is surveillance and individual privacy rights, which is a problem brought on by the fact that we just can't keep up with the changes in technology fast enough..

[Matt Allison]

This is just dumb MAGA/Putin propaganda and has no business being in this forum.

[Benjamin Cole]

40 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I apologize, but If we're going to make some allegations here. We have to deal with some of the current politics.

The intelligence agencies are much more regulated, much more bureaucratic than they were 60 years ago, and has been on a stiff rather narrow course., which doesn't mean there's never overreach. 

The biggest danger to that in the short term would be Trump getting rid of all the "administrative state" and employing his ideological cronies and sycophants, unless you think his judgment reigns Supreme and you weren't here for his first Presidency. They are the people who ignored Trump when he said he wanted to bomb Iran!

The current situation has so many checks and balances, lots of  abuses 60 years ago are not as likely to happen.

The same is true of "Operation mockingbird," Who on the left or right doesn't think that the MSM  has been unfair to their cause? I personally think the big issue was at the beginning was the MSM fascination with the Trump ratings that diverted them for subjecting Trump to any real scrutiny. But that's  just me!

Let me go further, Someone answer this: Is Merrick Garland really the "deep state"?  We've had 4 years to prosecute the Election fraud, false slates of electors and the 1/6 riots, the smoking gun tape recording of a  phone call, where Trump is not too ingeniously asking the Georgia Attorney General to find him 11,720 votes!

For 3 years we've known now that had Trump stole classified files  and refused to give  them back. This is a case many Republicans at the time, said was the strongest case against him. But after that, we now have knowledge he was intentionally hiding them and a Trump appointed judge throws it out! 

Where is thy deep state?

All they've been able to accomplish in 4 years is a conviction on the most minor charges of the 92 counts. Then to even the score, they reverse and bring charges and convict Hunter Biden on a gun charge.

Boy if you guys think the deep state is deep, you'd be 100 feet under water if Bobby or I was running the show. You'd really have something to whine about!

 

 

 

* the most real issue as far  the deep state in modern times is surveillance and individual privacy rights, which is a problem brought on by the fact that we just can't keep up with the changes in technology fast enough..

KG-

Nice to see your comments. I agree with some of what you said. The days of assassinating Presidents are likely over. Probably, anyway. 

But...is Merrick Garland a Deep State apparatchik? 

You realize it was AG Merrick Garland's Justice Department that not only did not comply with the JFK Records Act---indeed, it should have compelled other executive branches to comply with the law---but then went even further and created the Orwellian Transparency Board and fictitious but evidently impenetrable arguments to prevent the release of the JFK Records in perpetuity? 

Ask the MFF lawyers about it. It is too complicated for me to understand.

Having perped insufferable chicanery and thwarted law, then AG Merrick has directed to legal minions to fight MFF lawyers tooth-and-nail in court. 

Merrick, at least in regard to the JFK Records Act, does in fact strike me as doing the craven work of a Deep State apparatchik. 

I agree with your comments that the Deep State surveillance tools in recent years have exploded by 1000, and all intel agencies globally are making use of the new technologies, as well as planting stories in legacy and social media, and shadowing-banning that which they do not like. This goes way beyond partisan politics, though no doubt some people will wail the usual partisan narratives.....

[Benjamin Cole]

8 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

This is just dumb MAGA/Putin propaganda and has no business being in this forum.

MA-

I respectfully disagree. 

The intel state loathed, detested and reviled Trump. 

The Secret Service had inexplicable lapses in protection of Trump.  

The Secret Service director Cheatle, appointed solely by Biden, refused to answer basic questions in a Congressional hearing, while under subpoena. 

We should not immediately brush away an investigation into what happened, even if such an investigation only confirms that a lone nut perped the shot at Trump. 

(Personally I loath Putin, and I am a RFK2 supporter.)

[Ron Bulman]

The CIA didn't learn their lesson in 1963, they learned from it.  

[Pat Speer]

6 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The CIA didn't learn their lesson in 1963, they learned from it.  

IF the CIA played a role in killing JFK, do you actually believe anyone currently working at the agency knows about ir? 

Harold Weisberg was fond of pointing out that the FBI admitted to him numerous times that he knew more about the assassination than anyone at the bureau. I would think that this was even more true today...with people like Jim D and Larry Hancock and John Newman combined knowing more about the case than all the current employees of the FBI and CIA combined. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Pat Speer

[Gil Jesus]

9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The CIA didn't learn their lesson in 1963, they learned from it.  

Amen. IMO, Kennedy's assassination was a murder pulled off by the CIA with the help of its political allies in the SS and US military. The crime was then covered up by the FBI. The purpose of this counter-coup was to restore the power of the presidency to the elitists that controlled it prior to the 1960 election. This was all about power and who ran the government. JFK and RFK were out on an island all alone, never realizing the monster they were up against. Bobby was the only one JFK could trust and when he needed something done, it was RFK he turned to.

He also relied on persons OUTSIDE the government to take secret messages to Khrushchev and Castro.

By doing this, Kennedy was subverting the power of the State Dept., the Military and the CIA. No one knew what kind of deals the Kennedys were making with the Russians because all of the "experts" were kept out of the loop. In their eyes, this was a serious threat to the security of the country, an inexperienced President out of their control.

To understand what happened here, it takes some study of the history of the Kennedy administration. Only then can you see how the military and the SS both loathed Kennedy for his policies and behavior while in office. The MSM labelled him a coward for refusing to use the military at the BOP. Everybody thought they could push him around, from the CIA to US Steel to the Russians.

Then there are the last minute changes at Love Field, made by the Secret Service and well documented by @Vince Palamara. These changes indicate that the Secret Service was aware that shots would be fired from IN FRONT of the President.

The political hatred for Kennedy was not that different than today's political hatred for Trump. I say that not being a Republican or a Democrat but as an outsider looking in.

Back then, the hatred for the Kennedys was so intense people were saying the Kennedys ought to be shot. ( And they were ) 

In this forum alone, the hatred of one member for another based on his politics, is obvious on a daily basis. I've had to put members on ignore to prevent myself from responding to their hateful attacks on me. When I respond, I get in trouble, so I just ignore them from now on.

From education to private industry to the media, the CIA has had its tentacles into every aspect of American life. It operates with no accountability, ignoring laws to open its files and attempts by Congress to bring it under control. It was never meant to be an operational arm of the government, only for intelligence gathering.

The truth is that the CIA has run the US since Dulles became director in 1953. Kennedy tried to change that and paid with his life. His brother privately vowed to get to the bottom of his assassination and met the same fate.

Kennedy met with Johnson and Connally in El Paso in June 1963 and it was agreed he'd come to Texas in the fall. Meanwhile, Oswald was informing for the FBI in New Orleans on the CIA's training camps, camps Kennedy opposed after he promised the Russians ( during the missile crisis ) that the US would not invade Cuba or assist any third parties ( exiles ) in doing so.

It is no secret that "pro-Castro" Oswald was seen by Orest Pena in the company of New Orleans FBI agent Warren DeBrueys. He was also seen by Adrian Alba accepting an envelope from a government agent.

The training had been done under the plan for "the second invasion of Cuba". I believe this was a cover for the assassination of JFK because there wasn't going to be a second invasion. Had Kennedy gone back on his word to the Russians, he'd never get them back to the bargaining table. And he knew they would bargain because they had just signed the Limited Test Ban Treaty.

I believe this training of exiles was to create "cells" of sniper teams to be placed in locations around the country. Teams were to be sent to cities from Los Angeles to Washington, Chicago, Miami and Dallas.

When the camps were broken up outside New Orleans, I believe they moved to Mexico City, out of the reach of the FBI. I also believe that Ruth Paine had a connection with the CIA. Two days after it was agreed that JFK would visit Dallas, Ruth Paine went to New Orleans and picked up Marina and brought her back to Dallas. With Oswald's family back in the city, it was guaranteed that he too would return there.

The Lopez Report found that Oswald had not gone to the Cuban Consulate or the Russian Embassy while in Mexico City. The FBI determined that audio tapes of phone calls Oswald allegedly made to the Russian Embassy was not Oswald's voice. Photographs taken by the CIA outside the Russian Embassy identifying a man as Oswald was clearly not Oswald.

Having had Oswald piss on their parade, the CIA then set him up with a "phony" public identity as a pro-Castro sympathizer. An arrest and some TV and radio appearances created a public record. That information was transferred to the Military Intelligence Unit in San Antonio. After he was arrested, Oswald requested to speak with a FBI agent, a strange request for a simple misdemeanor crime of disturbing the peace. What's even stranger is that the FBI would respond to such a low level crime that was not even a federal crime.

I believe that it was at this time, in the late summer, that the 40" rifle was ordered and sent to Box 2915 in Dallas, Oswald's former PO box that had been closed. I believe the ad came from a magazine in Adrian Alba's garage. When the rifle arrived in Dallas, it came into the possession of Postal Inspector Harry Holmes. Holmes held onto it until the motorcade route had been determined.

As you know, it was Ruth Paine who got Oswald the job at the TSBD. And it was Roy Truly who hired Oswald temporarily and put him in the building. In the meanwhile, John Connally fought like a wildcat for the luncheon to be held at the Trade Mart. This was the last detail that would put the motorcade right in front of the TSBD. They had Oswald in the building and they needed the motorcade to drive by it. Connally finally got his wish and the luncheon site was determined on November 14th.

I'm not saying that Connally knew Kennedy would be shot, all he had to have been told was that he HAD to get the Trade Mart for the luncheon site. This is how the CIA operates. It's very compartmentalized. Each person only knows his own role. But there is evidence that Connally at least knew there was a significant danger in this motorcade because when he was hit, he yelled out, "my God, they're going to kill us all."

The motorcade route was determined and published on the 19th in the Dallas Times Herald. It was also published in the Dallas Morning News on the 21st.

With the luncheon site determined, the motorcade route finalized and Oswald employed in a building along the motorcade route, all that was left was to get the rifle into the building. That could have been done on any evening after hours when everyone had gone home. And that would have taken the cooperation of Roy Truly.

Kennedy was killed by his enemies, not Oswald. These people inside and outside the government were united in their political hatred for the President and his policies. What the attack against Trump should remind us is this: that irresponsible calls for violence against one person by famous and influential persons needs to stop. This divisive atmosphere of hatred needs to end. And only we can end it.

Otherwise none of us is safe.

Edited 11 hours ago by Gil Jesus

[Kirk Gallaway]

Gil, Your first post  raised  more questions than it answered so I very much  I appreciate your efforts in spelling out your beliefs. I subscribe to a lot of them, but not with near your inner certainty. 

7 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

In this forum alone, the hatred of one member for another based on his politics, is obvious on a daily basis. I've had to put members on ignore to prevent myself from responding to their hateful attacks on me. When I respond, I get in trouble, so I just ignore them from now on.

 Well that's unfortunate. Hopefully you won't think my questions are hateful.

But first your title confuses me. You at the end, say this.

On 7/24/2024 at 3:28 AM, Gil Jesus said:

The tactic the CIA used in 1963 is the same tactic they're using today.

So if they're doing the same tactics, what are you saying the CIA learned in 1963?

 

6 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

The political hatred for Kennedy was not that different than today's political hatred for Trump. I say that not being a Republican or a Democrat but as an outsider looking in.

Back then, the hatred for the Kennedys was so intense people were saying the Kennedys ought to be shot. ( And they were ) 

Except it was almost nonexistent Gil, This myth regrettably has been perpetuated by a number of JFKA authors.

JFK was not at all  controversial and didn't have a hundredth of the negative ratings of Trump.  There was some  newfound resistance to JFK in the south  when they heard JFK's civil rights  stand  as JFK won the south in 1960.* Outside of that, resistance was isolated to relative handful of right wing ideologues. That's why the assassination was such a shock!

There's really no comparison between JFK and Trump. If all the elites don't like Trump, how do you explain all of his donations?

IMO, You've got the whole nature of the power game wrong. The elites can back one or both candidates.

For example, After the Trump assassination attempt the stock market sold off tech, and alternative energy stocks  and started buying healthcare stocks, because they sense that Biden's $35 insulin and regulatory attempts toward the sector were now waning. (Gil, is that because Trump is so anti elitist?) They also bought crypto currencies because Trump reversed himself and now likes Crypto. They bought the banks because they know there will be less regulation.

it sounds like you're still caught up in the 60's MIC deal. Defense is only 3% of the GDP!

But if you were to get a Mc Govern type or  Bernie Sanders who was really interested in winding down the U.S. war machine, do you really the CIA would assassinate him?

The answer is no, because their election would reflect a sea change in American politics, and because the interests they represent will just reallocate their resources when Defense goes out of favor. They'd be much more concerned about Sander's taxation policies, and have loved Trump's!

 

7 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

The truth is that the CIA has run the US since Dulles became director in 1953.

Ok, give me current concrete examples.

 

 

*This  fomented a complete party realignment which is again happening today!

[Matt Allison]

10 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

The political hatred for Kennedy was not that different than today's political hatred for Trump.

Utter nonsense.

JFK would have jailed Trump the night of 1/6.