Dennis David

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Boswell drawing made during the autopsy.

I think this is a good representation of the skull damage indicated on Boswell drawing.

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Robin;

Your posting of the "Boswell Drawing" which was done during the autopsy, left off the bottom portion which also shows the semi-circular piece of bone which contains one-half (basically the top half) of the EOP entry wound, as well as the straight line drawn into the (one-half) of a hole in this piece of skull.

Tom

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Here is the complete drawing.

This was sent to Dr. Boswell on January 2, 1991 along with other attachements, in order that he could physically look at the items when I called him afterwards.

I had "assumed" that this circular drawing of a fragment was from the frontal or parietal area of the skull.

Dr. Boswell clearly defined it as being a piece of occipital bone which contained the approximately top one-half of the EOP entry into the skull, and that after replacement of this into position, the WHOLE-HOLE was now present and was measured.

Tom

Edited August 6, 2005 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Robin Unger]

QUOTE:

Robin;

Your posting of the "Boswell Drawing" which was done during the autopsy, left off the bottom portion which also shows the semi-circular piece of bone which contains one-half (basically the top half) of the EOP entry wound, as well as the straight line drawn into the (one-half) of a hole in this piece of skull.

Tom

Thanks.

I had not seen that before. ?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

QUOTE:

Robin;

Your posting of the "Boswell Drawing" which was done during the autopsy, left off the bottom portion which also shows the semi-circular piece of bone which contains one-half (basically the top half) of the EOP entry wound, as well as the straight line drawn into the (one-half) of a hole in this piece of skull.

Tom

Thanks.

I had not seen that before. ?

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One has to be extremely careful as there are many such items which have been "slightly" trimmed and edited.

In discussion with Dr. Boswell, I also asked exactly what the "straight line" drawn, coming into the fragment meant.

Dr. Boswell stated that it was drawn in to represent the general direction at which the bullet had come into the skull fragment to have created the entrance and exit (beveling) which they had seen.

This line was later converted into an "arrow" on his autopsy face sheet where he marked the wound and indicated the size of the skull penetration as well as the "ragged/slanted" notation.

Tom

[Robin Unger]

Paul O'Connor drawing of the morgue at bethesta.

QUOTE:

According to Sibert, when the body was placed on the table, the people who were on the floor went into the anteroom(cooler room) while the x rays were taken, but there was a window in the door. They could see what was going on through the window.

Stainless Steel table positioned over Kennedy's body for ORGAN placement and weighing.

[Robin Unger]

Pat.

I have just finished reading your PDF Seminar.

Very Interesting.

I still have a few questions regarding how you see the orientation of the Fox8 photo.

In your seminar you described the way you saw the image, but there are no markings on the images in the way of "annotation" which still left it up to different interpretations in my view.

To clear this up once and for all in my mind, would you use this image and mark on it as Clearly as possible "your interepretation" of how it should be viewed.

Thanks.

Edited August 7, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Pat Speer]

I've spent much of the last two years studying the medical information and autopsy photos.  And I've come to some conclusions which differ from most in the JFK community.  If you read my seminar and compare it to Dr. Mantik's, I'm sure you'll find mine the more rational and well-thought out.

Point one. The bevelling that has been pointed out on the forehead to correspond with the purported entrance hole on the forehead is in fact an exit wound. The nature of bevelling is that the energy radiates outwards. Thus the larger side of the hole indicates the direction of travel.

Point two.  The autopsy photo which depicts the open cranium, which some call F-8 or #44, is in fact the back of Kennedy's head, not his forehead.  If you read my seminar you'll find a discussion on this topic and a number of photos which I believe prove this to be true.  The HSCA got it wrong!  Dead wrong.

Point three. There is an obvious bullet hole in the open cranium photo,  but it is down by the hairline, in an area which Robin interprets as blood. 

I'm currently updating and expanding my seminar, at which point many of the questions about the autopsy photos and x-rays will be answered.

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Man, I can't believe I wrote this. Here I am trying to walk down the center of the road and this obnoxious blast from my recent past comes back to haunt me. To clarify, I'm not SURE people will find my seminar more rational than Dr. Mantik's, I merely believe. Dr. Mantik has put a lot of time in on the case and has my profound respect. I apologize for mouthing off. I suggest people read everything they can by Dr. Mantik and Dr. Gary Aguilar, and then read my stuff and make up their own minds. I'm still working on a massive expansion of my presentation. Hopefully it will open some eyes.

[Pat Speer]

Robin, I'm tech-challenged at times, and this is one of those times. Rather than my trying to figure out how to post images on this forum, let me just go around the horn and explain what I see in F8. You can add my comments in if you like.

As you know, there are predominantly two schools of thought on this photo. One school of thought, by most conspiracists and by Humes and Boswell in 1966, is that this photo is as you present it, with the bottom of the head and neck at 6 o'clock. The other school of thought, the school of thought of the lone-nutters and of the government starting in 1967 until the present day, is that the head connects to the body out of shot at the 9 o'clock position. I call this the "sideways" view, much as you Aussies have your "upside-down" view.

Using the photo as you present it, let's go around the clock face and compare the two schools of thought.

At roughly the 1 o'clock position there is what I call a scalp triangle. This matches perfectly a triangle of scalp just under the v-shaped tear in the scalp of Kennedy apparent in the photos showing his face. I conclude from this that this is the underside of Kennedy's right face. What is important to realize is that the wound was only measured and this photo was only taken AFTER the scalp was reflected and the brain was removed. Boswell himself has forgotten this. Humes repeatedly testified that they did not shave Kennedy's head, and that as they reflected the scalp BACK (his word) large chunks of skull fell to the table. These statements and this scalp are completely incompatible with the sideways view, as, in this view, the scalp at the back of the head, which was reportedly intact, was not reflected at all, but is, instead, lacerated and left dangling.

At the 3 o'clock position, roughly one third of the way across the photo, past the ruler, there are several small holes in what appears to be the bottom of the skull. A quick look in an anatomy book will show that in the bottom of the skull in this exact region are a number of foramen, openings. I believe that one can make out the jugular foramen and internal auditory meatus, at the least. Some vein-like material remains by the jugular foramen. When looked at in the sideways view, these openings would seem to be on the side of the left cerebrum or on the far side of the skull. The brain, however, had already been removed, and there are no such openings in the upper rear cranium.

At the 5 o'clock position, there is what appears to be neck. Several lone-nutters have claimed this is a towel, but I don't believe them. I've found that the lines on this neck can be matched to the lines on Kennedy's neck visible in the so-called "red spot" photo, the color photo of the back of his head with his scalp intact. When one matches these lines, the skulls match perfectly. When one looks at this from the sideways view,you have to not look at this, or pretend it's a towel, as neck lines can not possibly emerge from a forehead, can they?

At the 6 o'clock position, one can see a small entrance hole, which to me is obviously the long-lost entrance by the EOP. I will scream until I'm blue in the face, or type until my fingers fall off, to make sure this bullet entrance gets acknowledged. When the photo is lightened one can see that this entrance is transversal, running right to left, and that it tunneled through the flesh before entering the skull. This is exactly as the doctors have said. But they have contradicted themselves as well. Humes and Boswell have said repeatedly that the entrance was longer than wide, but this doesn't match their original measurements and drawings nor does it match the words of Finck, the wound ballistics expert on the scene. In the sideways view, of course, this entrance is on the forehead, and must be ignored.

Slightly above this entrance is a v-shaped opening in the bone. I believe this corresponds to the v-shape of the two removed skull fragments apparent on Boswell's drawing of the skull from the autopsy, which he places slightly above the entrance in the occipital bone. In the sideways view this is forehead.

At the 7 o'clock position, is what appears to be a specimen jar with its lid open. The one thing this seems to show is that this photo was taken with the body lying on its left side.

From 7 o'clock to noon, all along the left side, there is what is clearly reflected scalp.

While in the sideways view this is reflected over the face, I don't believe this to be true. The angle of bone in the 5 o'clock position would indicate a forehead of Frankenstein proportions. I believe that this scalp is instead reflected to the left over the midline of the skull. The doctors were concerned about having an open casket, and it only makes sense that they would try not to disrupt the left side of his face, which was undamaged. In the sideways view, however, it would seem they tore the whole top of his head off. Since in the sideways view the ear is under scalp at approximately 11 o'clock, this would mean that, unless they removed the left side of his skull as well, the brain was removed from an opening stretching from the top of his ear to the midline of his skull. Not enough room. While many seem to have a problem with scalp being reflected in any direction except over the face, the various medical technicians contacted by Livingstone over the years have had little problem concluding the scalp is reflected to the left.

Slightly above the center of the picture is the root of the problem, and the cause of all the confusion. This outwardly beveled piece of bone represents an exit. For conspiracists, who want to believe there was an exit low in the occipital bone, this is a problem, as it shows a small exit far higher than they presume. For those who view this sideways, however, they rejoice that this PROVES the bullet came from rear and exited from the front. No one seems to notice that they can't agree where this front is. While Dr. Baden and the FPP placed this exit along the coronal suture, just lateral of the right eye socket, Dr. Angel, Larry Sturdivan and many others place this exit just above Kennedy's right eye, where NO ONE saw an exit. The forensic anatomy panel of the HSCA even said that the crack visible at the 10 o'clock position underlay the v-shaped tear of scalp visible in the photos taken from the front. This is nonsense. When I matched the necklines of this photo with the "red spot" photo, I found that this exit matches the size and shape of the red spot. When I adjusted the A/P x-rays to match the back of the head I found also that the bullet "slice" was precisely this size and shape and in this location. From this I've concluded that a bullet entering the top of Kennedy's head from behind exploded, and that a sliice of this bullet impacted on the inside of his parietal bonel, creating beveling, but not tearing through his scalp.

As this came from a second bullet to strike Kennedy in the head, I believe it is indicative of a conspiracy.

I hope this helps.

[Robin Unger]

Thanks Pat.

I have given this a considerable amount of thought, i still have not reached a satisfactory answer in my own mind.

I am going back to the drawing board and see what conclusions i can come up with.

[Lee Forman]

Hi Robin.

Excellent work.

Take a look at the 2nd paragraph (The copyright stopped me from posting the text).

http://www.theksbwchannel.com/news/3940128/detail.html

- lee

[Guest John Gillespie]

Has this mark ever been explained:

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Robin,

In Lifton's book and elsewhere there is a photo of JFK's tie with the entry hole right in the middle of the knot. The Dallas doctors tried a tracheotomy in the opening we see in this photo.

BUT, yeah, how did it get there? It is only theory but the cognoscenti think that it came about when a shot from the rear, the first or one of the first, missed kennedy (and everyone else, for that matter) and hit the frame of the windshield. It's unlikely we'll know the condition of the windshield immediately after the shooting because, claims Lifton, there were machinations involving THAT evidence, as well.

Others say it was Umbrella Man (see Sprague's site). Regardless, it appears from the Zapruder film that Kennedy's initial reactions to this were to pull his arms towards his neck, making fists of both hands. Another enigma.

I enjoy your postings,

JohnG

[Robin Unger]

Hi Robin.

Excellent work.

Take a look at the 2nd paragraph (The copyright stopped me from posting the text).

http://www.theksbwchannel.com/news/3940128/detail.html

- lee

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Thanks Lee.

Interesting.

I posted the document regarding the "Bullet behind the ear" on the forum recently.

[Robin Unger]

Thanks John.

Yeh, if you look closely at the tracheotomy wound in the "Death Stare" photo it is possible to see two halves of a circle, one half at the top of the incision, and one half at the bottom.

I was just curious as to what this OTHER mark may be on the left side of Kennedy's neck.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Robin Unger

[Micah Mileto]

Is there an audiotape or transcript or other documentation of Rick Russo's 1992 Pittsburgh conference with Floyd Riebe, Dennis David, Paul O'Connor, and James Jenkins? That would really help complete the collection of medical videos available on the internet.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

I am also looking forward to when Bart Kamp eventually releases all of the medical evidence in his Livingstone collection.

[Pete Mellor]

17 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

I am also looking forward to when Bart Kamp eventually releases all of the medical evidence in his Livingstone collection.

Micah, Bart's e-mail reply on your query;-

Livingstone medical work stays under lock and key for now. Some of it will be released next year, but some will only be released when my work on a specific area is done which is what I am going to do as soon as my Anatomy papers are out. I will start with the med stuff in Jan next year, no idea how long it will take to get my specific medical research done. But some of the stuff will be out next year.