New Orleans - The beginning of the end?

[Dawn Meredith]

[

. TJohn,

Americans in general basically don't care that they have an incompetent and corrupt governmentey Ron

[

Ron,

The people I know who voted for W don't think he IS corrupt. They are entirely BRAINWASHED. They think it is we who are off our rocker by criticizing "this wonderful Christian president". By pulling the Christian "act" W has managed to fool millions. It's indeed very scary to behold.

And before Gratz jumps in here asking how I can "judge" the president's religious beliefs, I have only this to say:

"What good is it, my brothers if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds" (James 2:14)

Anyone can CLAIM to "have faith", but look at his/her actions.

Dawn

[Ron Ecker]

Dawn,

I think it's a combination of things: brainwashed, denial, ignorance, not wanting to know the awful truth or unpleasant facts, not looking at "the elephant in the living room." It all adds up to not caring, as the simplest way to put it. It's the absolute opposite of "eternal vigilance." People in this country are not forced to wear blinders. They wear them voluntarily.

Ron

[John Simkin]

And before Gratz jumps in here asking how I can "judge" the president's religious beliefs,  I have only this to say:

"What good is it, my brothers if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds" (James 2:14)

Anyone can CLAIM to "have faith",  but look at his/her actions.

Exactly right. America has never had a president that is less Christian than George Bush.

[Ron Ecker]

I think many so-called Christians have a simplistic and limited notion of what Christianity means. They think it means "accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior." That's it. The Southern Baptists used to have a saying (I guess they still do): "Once saved, always saved." What that tells people is that you can do what you want to, you're going to heaven regardless.

As for Bush, he probably thinks he's doing good deeds just by being president. "It's hard work." If people have to be slaughtered as part of the job, so be it. He leaves that to others anyway.

[John Dolva]

[

. TJohn,

Americans in general basically don't care that they have an incompetent and corrupt governmentey Ron

[

Ron,

The people I know who voted for W don't think he IS corrupt. They are entirely BRAINWASHED.  They think it is we who are off our rocker by criticizing "this wonderful Christian president". By pulling the Christian "act"  W has managed to fool millions. It's indeed very scary to behold.

And before Gratz jumps in here asking how I can "judge" the president's religious beliefs,  I have only this to say:

"What good is it, my brothers if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds" (James 2:14)

Anyone can CLAIM to "have faith",  but look at his/her actions.

Dawn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Dawn, I think you are touching on an important issue here. There tends to be an 'ethic' within the christian church that says 'don't tread on another church's toes'.

While one group may 'privately' judge another, publicly there is presented a unity around a common focus : Christ. So generally there is a kind of almost unspoken 'manner' that one does not question the professed belief of another, but rather seeks to 'point' to issues that the other believer may benefit from by looking at.

Personally I think this is a product of an instituionalising of christianity into a religion, rather than being an active quite revolutionary force as I think christ meant it to be.

In Bush's case the stark contrast between his professed belief and his condoning of unchristian acts is certainly sufficient for me to question the sincerity of his beliefs. I certainly welcome such a scrutiny of mine, it helps me 'grow'. I wonder up to what point bush would engage in a dialogue with someone questioning his?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Did anyone surmise a nexus between this thread and the assassination issue?

The Zapruder film was first publicly aired in 1975, as I recall, on the Gerardo Rivera Show.

Also, from memory, his theme music was the song: "The City of New Orleans".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim, you're a bit wrong here. If I'm not mistaken the show that used "the City of New Orleans" as its theme song was the show named after the first words of its chorus..."Good morning, America".

And the REAL connection between the assass and the disaster is Carlos Marcello and the NO mob. New Orleans was for decades and decades firmly in the grip of organized crime. As a result a disproportionate amount of its wages went into the pockets of Marcello and his ilk--money that should have went into government projects ended up repaving roads by his farm, with him receiving a kickback. Money that should have went into the pockets of the banana boat workers went into the pockets of their protective muscle--the mafia. Gambling and prostitution were everywhere--the bars were open 24/7--and Marcello and his ilk received a piece of all of it. It is undoubted that the economic conditions of the poor were exacerbated by the corruption of the city by the likes of Marcello.

The same man who killed JFK may have indeed been the spiritual father of the current disaster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the event this is your belief, then so be it.

However the simple facts are that Organized Crime has NEVER been in control of New Orleans.

Organized Crime in New Orleans, is, was, and will continue to be merely a tool of the ultra-rich elite.

When one does not desire to get their "hands dirty", or be associated to and with certain events, the proper tools are necessary.

Over the years, since the 1960's, the "Ultra-Rich" society control of New Orleans

has progressively wained.

The new "rich", not unlike much of the remainder of our society has taken little or no look at future events and has become a "me/now" society along with much of the remainder of the United States.

"THE CULTURE OF NARCISSISM" (which should be required reading prior to even entering High School) is well and alive in the "Big Easy".

Just that it began this journey long before many other areas of our social order.

[Gregory Carlin]

Gregory wrote:

The military handle disasters and the sensible expectation is that the best laid plans will frequently go astray.

Didn't a Scottish poet pen a famous saying about the "best laid plans"?

You are, of course, correct.

I think one of the problems is New Orleans should have designated one official to do nothing but plan a bus evacuation, line up drivers and do all else that was necessary to get the bus evacuation ready.

I'll post it later but just read a USA Today article that states that Bush was hopping mad at the delays in the federal assistance.  One suspects heads will roll, but again I think the problem started with a failed evacuation plan.  I'll try to look up the statistics re the percentage of Keys residents who evacuate when a mandatory evacuation is ordered.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

New Orleans has had corruption and hence organizational efficiency problems for so long it may as well have been forever. On the other side of the coin the people in Washington DC were knowledgeable of those deficiences.

"Meanwhile, more Britons have arrived home with harrowing tales. Gerard Scott, from Merseyside, said police officers had urged women to bare their breasts in return for being rescued."

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/46440.html

"[The authorities] said to them, 'Well, show us what you've got' – doing signs for them to lift their T-shirts up. The girls said no, and [the rescuers] said 'well fine,' and motored off down the road in their motorboat. That's the sort of help we had from the authorities," he said.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46160

Certainly sounds like New Orleans.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Gregory wrote:

The military handle disasters and the sensible expectation is that the best laid plans will frequently go astray.

Didn't a Scottish poet pen a famous saying about the "best laid plans"?

You are, of course, correct.

I think one of the problems is New Orleans should have designated one official to do nothing but plan a bus evacuation, line up drivers and do all else that was necessary to get the bus evacuation ready.

I'll post it later but just read a USA Today article that states that Bush was hopping mad at the delays in the federal assistance.  One suspects heads will roll, but again I think the problem started with a failed evacuation plan.  I'll try to look up the statistics re the percentage of Keys residents who evacuate when a mandatory evacuation is ordered.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

New Orleans has had corruption and hence organizational efficiency problems for so long it may as well have been forever. On the other side of the coin the people in Washington DC were knowledgeable of those deficiences.

"Meanwhile, more Britons have arrived home with harrowing tales. Gerard Scott, from Merseyside, said police officers had urged women to bare their breasts in return for being rescued."

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/46440.html

"[The authorities] said to them, 'Well, show us what you've got' – doing signs for them to lift their T-shirts up. The girls said no, and [the rescuers] said 'well fine,' and motored off down the road in their motorboat. That's the sort of help we had from the authorities," he said.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46160

Certainly sounds like New Orleans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Merely rehearsing for Mardi Gras.

My oldest son, who "loves" New Orleans, takes up about two full cameras of the bare boobies during each trip there for Mardi Gras.

Tom

[Lee Forman]

Without weighing in on any of my personal views, thought I'd share some of the sentiments expressed to me by many Spaniards [do we have any Spaniards on the forum?].

- Had things been different, and had the situation not involved primarily poor blacks, the response would have been different, and immediate.

- Shock at how poor the response was, considering that these people are 'Americans' and the US is supposedly the richest and most powerful nation on the face of the planet.

- Bush will now realize that his treatment of environmental issues will need to be reconsidered. The temperature of the waters of the gulf are a fine example of how things are clearly getting worse, and require addressing.

- Bewilderment and shock at requests for aid from Europe and the world. India is donating aid - India is a 3rd world country.

- Questioning of how oil prices have climbed [60% increase per barrel in a year?] and how the destruction of New Orleans and outlaying areas could impact gasoline prices [135% increase in a year?] throughout the Country. And wonder how Bush could allow such price gouging to occur.

- Certainty that the elite, including Bush and cronies, will find ways in which to stand to gain financially from the disaster.

Trying to remember some of the other ones - but it was interesting to note how much emphasis and expectation was placed on the leader of the Country.

As for some of the prior posts, I have to say Pat Robertson summed it up for me. As a religious leader, for Robertson to publicly advocate political assassination of a Democratically elected Foreign National Leader - to save money, demonstrates a very interesting historical cultural phenomenon.

"If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it," said Robertson Monday. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war."

"We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability," he said. "We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

Chavez, a close ally of Cuban President Fidel Castro, has said in the past he believes the United States is trying to kill him and vowed that Venezuela, which accounts for more than 10 percent of U.S. oil imports, would shut off the flow of oil if that happened.

Tuesday, the Venezuelan leader shrugged off Robertson's comments during a trip to Cuba.

"I don't know who that person is," he said. "I don't know him, and as far as his opinion of me goes, I couldn't care less."

Classic.

[Tim Gratz]

This article merits your attention:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/rega...00509061439.asp

[Thomas H. Purvis]

This article merits your attention:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/rega...00509061439.asp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim;

You need to cease confusing us with the facts and truth. Our minds are made up.

Tom

P.S.--Coming in next reply.

[Guest Stephen Turner]

This article merits your attention:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/rega...00509061439.asp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Tim, can I suggest that members also read the article "What has come to pass" on the national review web-site Tim has been so kind as to post. It gives a different take to the one Tim suggest,s we read. Not QUITE so forgiving of President Bush's role in all this.....Steve.

[Tim Gratz]

A man respected by all Forum members, G. Gordon Liddy, said on his show this a.m. that Brown did not have the qualifications for the job and that he should be replaced forthwith. Mr. Liddy did not suggest any replacements, however.

I suspect person with a police or military background might be better qualified than a lawyer for a position such as head of FEMA.

A consensus seems to be gathering that FEMA should never have been made part of Homeland Security. Does anyone remember who the FEMA chief reported to before it became part of Homeland Security?

Edited September 8, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Cant help you there Tim, It always looked like Brown only got the job because he was a university room-mate of the former incumbant. Sheesh, dont I sound cynical

must be my age

[David G. Healy]

Tim Gratz wrote:

A man respected by all Forum members, G. Gordon Liddy

[...]

____________

must of missed that endorsement by all Forum members, can you point to that, please!

Thanks...