Ultimate Sacrifice by Thom Hartmann & Lamar Waldron

[Pat Speer]

Who orchestrated the cover-up / Warren Commission and why?

Again, as the book explains and documents prove, RFK was directing a secret committee in the weeks before Dallas (since September 1963), making plans for what to do if an American official was assassinated. Those plans weren't complete--and those doing the planning never imagined the "American official" might be JFK--but the thinking behind those plans no doubt influenced the actions of key officials after JFK's death. Starting with RFK, who was calling the shots at the autopsy. Remember, with RFK at Bethesda in the family suite (I believe on the 17th floor) were JFK aides Powers and O'Donnell, who had witnessed the shots from the grassy knoll.

McCone and Helms withheld info from the Warren Commission, as did RFK. Hoover wasn't officially part of the coup planning, but had no doubt picked up information about it from informants. LBJ had been out of the loop, and had to be quickly brought up to speed on the real coup plan, Cubela, AMTRUNK, and the CIA-Mafia plots. All knew that if the coup plan leaked, not only would in cost the life of America's ally, Commander Almeida, but just a year after the Cuban Missile Crisis, could have triggered another nuclear confrontation with the Soviets.

Lamar, am I reading you correctly, or are you suggesting that RFK actively interfered with the autopsy, to hide the evidence for a second shooter? If so, I urge you to read my presentation on the medical evidence. The autopsy evidence DOES indicate more than one shooter. If RFK used Burkley to cover up the evidence, then why did Burkley raise the possibility of two head shots in his subsequent statements?

Your theory, while well-researched and wide-reaching, seems to throw a little blame in every direction but one. The ONE in my opinion. LBJ. Is it just a coincidence that he had links to Marcello? Is it just a coincidence that the Clark Panel obfuscation of the medical evidence was released just as he left office? And that the last act of his Attorney General, Ramsey Clark, was to deny the District Attorney of New Orleans access to medical evidence, for use in a murder trial?

[Wim Dankbaar]

Was it just Chauncey's luck that he looks so much as the tramp with the hat? he discovered it and said to himself : Hey, let's weave a story around that, right? And then he managed to have the best facial experts in the country corroborate him, right?

Wim

Wouldn't you say this looks a lot like the older tramp?

Well, he certainly looks like Chauncey at a much older age, a little bolder maybe. Is that Chauncey?

By the way, did anyone know that Frank Belcher, partner of Joe Ball (who served on the Warren Commission in charge of the Delaey Plaza evidence) was a confidant of Earl Warren?

I was very grateful last year when I received the Price-Shattuck Award from the Los Angeles Bar Association for outstanding contribution to my profession. It's named in honor of Ed and another past president of the bar.

As a matter of fact, the man who got it the year before was Frank Belcher, who was one of Earl's confidantes with whom Earl talked over judicial appointments in the south on many occasions. He talked to him until the word got around that you had to make your peace with Frank Belcher before you could get appointed to the bench, and rightly or wrongly, that's when Frank Belcher lost his influence, in that one area, at least.

Source: http://content.cdlib.org/dynaxml/servlet/d...iew=entire_text

Chauncey still had a letter from Belcher telling him not to worry about the "Dallas activities". But according to Mr. Hartmann and Mr. Waldron that must be forged too. Maybe Chauncey even admitted it to them?

I wonder from which JFK book Chauncey picked up on Belcher and Ball. Likewise If Mr. Waldron is still going to respond.

Here's a picture of Belcher with John Wayne:

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Wouldn't you say this looks a lot like the older tramp?

Well, he certainly looks like Chauncey at a much older age, a little bolder maybe. Is that Chauncey?

It's Chauncey's lookalike. Isn't that interesting?

[John Simkin]

Lamar Waldron has sent me a copy of his revised book, Ultimate Sacrifice. It will be published next week. You should find the opening passage of the book interesting (so should Fidel Castro):

Eighteen years ago, Thom Hartmann and I began writing a book about the battles of President Kennedy and his brother, Attorney General Robert F Kennedy, against the Mafia and Fidel Castro. In 2005, using new information from almost two dozen people who worked with John and Robert Kennedy-backed up by thousands of files at the National Archives-we exposed for the first time JFK's top-secret plan to overthrow Castro and invade Cuba on December 1, 1963. "The Plan for a Coup in Cuba" (as it was titled in a memo for the joint Chiefs of Staff) would include a "palace coup" to eliminate Castro, allowing a new Cuban "Provisional Government" to step into the power vacuum. The coup would be supported by a "full-scale invasion" of Cuba by the US military, if necessary.

However, even as JFK's secret plan was nearing its final stage, he had two emissaries making last-ditch attempts to avoid a potentially bloody coup and invasion by trying to jump-start secret negotiations with Fidel Castro. One long-secret November 1963 memo about those negotiations states that "there was a rift between Castro and the (Che) Guevara ... Almeida group on the question of Cuba's future course." Che Guevara is still widely known today, perhaps even more than in 1963. But most people in the United States have never heard of Che's ally against Castro, Juan Almeida, even though in 1963 he wielded more power inside Cuba than Che himself. In some ways, Almeida was the third most powerful official in Cuba in 1963, after Fidel and his brother Raul - and even today, in 2006, the CIA lists Juan Almeida as the third-highest official in the current Cuban government.

In this new edition, we can now reveal for the first time that Almeida wasn't just allied with Che against Castro in November of 1963: Almeida was also allied with President Kennedy. In 1963, Juan Almeida was the powerful Commander of the Cuban Army, one of the most famous heroes of the Revolution - and he was going to lead JFK's "palace coup" against Fidel. Commander Almeida had been in direct contact with John and Robert Kennedy's top Cuban exile aide since May of 1963, and both men would be part of Cuba's new, post-coup Provisional Government. By the morning of November 22, 1963, Almeida had even received a large cash payment authorized by the Kennedys, and the CIA had placed his family under US protection in a foreign country.

The "Plan for a Coup in Cuba" was fully authorized by JFK and personally run by Robert Kennedy. Only about a dozen people in the US government knew the full scope of the plan, all of whom worked for the military or the CIA, or reported directly to Robert. The Kennedys' plan was prepared primarily by the US military, with the CIA playing a major supporting role. Input was also obtained from key officials in a few other agencies, but most of those who worked on the plan knew only about carefully compartmentalized aspects, believing it to be a theoretical exercise in case a Cuban official volunteered to depose Fidel.

[Antti Hynonen]

John Simkin Posted Yesterday, 04:38 PM

Lamar Waldron has sent me a copy of his revised book, Ultimate Sacrifice. It will be published next week. You should find the opening passage of the book interesting (so should Fidel Castro):

Eighteen years ago, Thom Hartmann and I began writing a book about the battles of President Kennedy and his brother, Attorney General Robert F Kennedy, against the Mafia and Fidel Castro. In 2005, using new information from almost two dozen people who worked with John and Robert Kennedy-backed up by thousands of files at the National Archives-we exposed for the first time JFK's top-secret plan to overthrow Castro and invade Cuba on December 1, 1963. "The Plan for a Coup in Cuba" (as it was titled in a memo for the joint Chiefs of Staff) would include a "palace coup" to eliminate Castro, allowing a new Cuban "Provisional Government" to step into the power vacuum. The coup would be supported by a "full-scale invasion" of Cuba by the US military, if necessary.

However, even as JFK's secret plan was nearing its final stage, he had two emissaries making last-ditch attempts to avoid a potentially bloody coup and invasion by trying to jump-start secret negotiations with Fidel Castro. One long-secret November 1963 memo about those negotiations states that "there was a rift between Castro and the (Che) Guevara ... Almeida group on the question of Cuba's future course." Che Guevara is still widely known today, perhaps even more than in 1963. But most people in the United States have never heard of Che's ally against Castro, Juan Almeida, even though in 1963 he wielded more power inside Cuba than Che himself. In some ways, Almeida was the third most powerful official in Cuba in 1963, after Fidel and his brother Raul - and even today, in 2006, the CIA lists Juan Almeida as the third-highest official in the current Cuban government.

In this new edition, we can now reveal for the first time that Almeida wasn't just allied with Che against Castro in November of 1963: Almeida was also allied with President Kennedy. In 1963, Juan Almeida was the powerful Commander of the Cuban Army, one of the most famous heroes of the Revolution - and he was going to lead JFK's "palace coup" against Fidel. Commander Almeida had been in direct contact with John and Robert Kennedy's top Cuban exile aide since May of 1963, and both men would be part of Cuba's new, post-coup Provisional Government. By the morning of November 22, 1963, Almeida had even received a large cash payment authorized by the Kennedys, and the CIA had placed his family under US protection in a foreign country.

The "Plan for a Coup in Cuba" was fully authorized by JFK and personally run by Robert Kennedy. Only about a dozen people in the US government knew the full scope of the plan, all of whom worked for the military or the CIA, or reported directly to Robert. The Kennedys' plan was prepared primarily by the US military, with the CIA playing a major supporting role. Input was also obtained from key officials in a few other agencies, but most of those who worked on the plan knew only about carefully compartmentalized aspects, believing it to be a theoretical exercise in case a Cuban official volunteered to depose Fidel.

I bet Tim Gratz is going to be happy about this book too.

[John Simkin]

I bet Tim Gratz is going to be happy about this book too.

In the book Lamar Waldron argues that Castro had nothing to do with the plot to kill JFK. However, if these documents are eventually released by the CIA, I suspect that is the way people like Gus Russo will spin it.

[William Kelly]

By the way, did anyone know that Frank Belcher, partner of Joe Ball (who served on the Warren Commission in charge of the Delaey Plaza evidence) was a confidant of Earl Warren?

I was very grateful last year when I received the Price-Shattuck Award from the Los Angeles Bar Association for outstanding contribution to my profession. It's named in honor of Ed and another past president of the bar.

As a matter of fact, the man who got it the year before was Frank Belcher, who was one of Earl's confidantes with whom Earl talked over judicial appointments in the south on many occasions. He talked to him until the word got around that you had to make your peace with Frank Belcher before you could get appointed to the bench, and rightly or wrongly, that's when Frank Belcher lost his influence, in that one area, at least.

Source: http://content.cdlib.org/dynaxml/servlet/d...iew=entire_text

Chauncey still had a letter from Belcher telling him not to worry about the "Dallas activities". But according to Mr. Hartmann and Mr. Waldron that must be forged too. Maybe Chauncey even admitted it to them?

I wonder from which JFK book Chauncey picked up on Belcher and Ball. Likewise If Mr. Waldron is still going to respond.

Here's a picture of Belcher with John Wayne:

FROM WHO'S WHO, 1966

BELCHER, Frank Baker, lawyer; b. Carrolton, Mo., Oct. 6, 1891; s. George L. and William A. (Beazley) B.; A.B., Sandford, 1913; post grad. U. So. Cal. Law Sch., 1913-14; m. Ruth B. Reynolds, May 20, 1917; children - Dorothy J. (Mrs. J. Addison Sawyer), Frank Baker II, Nancy M. (Mrs. Harry Goodman). Admitted to Cal. bar, 1914; mem. firm Jennings & Belcher, Los Angeles, 1914-1948. Belcher, Kearney & Fargo, 1948-57, Belcher, Henzle & Fargo, 1957-63, Belcher, Henzle & Bregenzahn, Los Angeles, Cal., 1963-. Vice President Bank of Los Angeles; dir. Bell Petroleum Co. Mem. Cal. Bd. Bar Examiners, 1943-48. Exec. officer Sheriff's Aero Squadron, Los Angeles County, Served from pvt. to maj., inf. U.S. Army, 1917-19; AEF in France, Fellow Am. Col. Trial Lawyers; mem. Am. (ho. of delegates 1941-43), Cal. (pres. 1943), Los Angeles County (pres. 1938) bar assns., Res. Officers Assn. (pres. Los Angeles chpt. 1928). Home: 163 S. Plymouth Blvd., Los Angeles 4. Office, Security Building, 510 S. Spring St., Los Angeles 90013.

Chauncey Holt claimed that Frank Belcher was one of a number of person in California who he was told would assist him when he moved there in April, 1961. Belcher, he said, often took legal cases with Joe Ball, later a member of the Warren Commission legal staff.

Belcher's son, Frank, Jr., aka "Buddy," may have accompanied Holt to New Orleans in the summer of 1963 to deliver FPCC leaflets to Oswald. Belcher and Holt may be persons standing on the Canal Street corner with Oswald handing out leaftlets shortly before scuffle with anti-Castro Cubans.

While this should be added to the Chauncey Holt thread, rather than this one, Lamar Waldron certainly wouldn't use anything Holt had to say if it didn't jive with his pet theories.

Bill Kelly

[John Dolva]

I bet Tim Gratz is going to be happy about this book too.

In the book Lamar Waldron argues that Castro had nothing to do with the plot to kill JFK. However, if these documents are eventually released by the CIA, I suspect that is the way people like Gus Russo will spin it.

Round and round and round we go...

"In this new edition, we can now reveal for the first time that Almeida wasn't just allied with Che against Castro in November of 1963: Almeida was also allied with President Kennedy."

"we can now reveal for the first time" Wow what a tag line! er..sorry...SCOOP. So nice of the powers to be for letting the authors in on this one at this time. I wonder what the results of the prior discussions with foreign governments regarding this revelation were like? Or is it foreign affairs by proxy these days? They must have all been real concerned the authors would make oodles before they comment publicly.

Che' sure tricked us all. Hot damn! He musta faked his guerilla struggles. Can't quite see how lying down to get killed in Bolivia fits. But lets not worry about that. Probably wasn't even him anyway.

"Commander Almeida had been in direct contact with John and Robert Kennedy's top Cuban exile aide since May of 1963, and both men would be part of Cuba's new, post-coup Provisional Government. By the morning of November 22, 1963, Almeida had even received a large cash payment authorized by the Kennedys, and the CIA had placed his family under US protection in a foreign country."

No doubt (as an afterthought of course) including protection of the man who could pull this off, the man himself. They would work overtime to stay the hand of any anti Kennedy elements. Guess they slipped up. Strange how hawk Johnson didn't follow through, especially as early on he still worked with Robert. Maybe the as yet unnamed yet to be released documentation hasn't been prepared, ooops leaked, hmmm...er...found?... ahh, that's it...declassified and turned over to some eager author, yet?

stay tuned...

Who gains from this crap? Apart from book sales (low I hope), a preparation for intervention in Cuba. Hoodwink a new generation who didn't grow up following the story of Cuba and Che into allowing by doubt and inaction to protest. The fact that it is illogical doesn't matter, truth never stayed the voice of Goebbles and co.

[William Kelly]

The bottom line is that C-Day never occurred, it is a name Waldron made up, and the coup took place at Dealey Plaza, Dallas, Texas, not in Cuba.

The mob didn't kill JFK and cover it up, those who took over the government of the USA killed JFK.

The fact that Waldron & Company only utilize the facts that support their pet theories discounts pretty much everything they try to sell.

BK

[Pat Speer]

IF by some chance, Lamar is dead on, and IF by some chance, the mob killed Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy helped cover-it up to protect an ongoing covert operation, then Lyndon Baines Johnson is the luckiest son-of-a-gun ever. I mean, HOW INCREDIBLY CONVENIENT that the mob would kill Kennedy on the very last day that Johnson remained a viable candidate in the next election. Only one day later and the Reynolds testimony would have been front-page news.

I would be much more inclined to believe the thesis if Johnson were in there somewhere. Lyndon Johnson was not an innocent bystander to history. He made things happen, for better and worse...

[Terry Adams]

The "Plan for a Coup in Cuba" was fully authorized by JFK and personally run by Robert Kennedy. Only about a dozen people in the US government knew the full scope of the plan, all of whom worked for the military or the CIA, or reported directly to Robert. The Kennedys' plan was prepared primarily by the US military, with the CIA playing a major supporting role.

Would not this "dozen or so" be the very people that we should be looking at. Secrets are best kept by only letting the least number of people know. Who are these people? Do the authors of "Ultimate Sacrifice" name them? We know that RFK felt that someone in that group had his brother murdered.

"If" JFK had agreed to the overthrow of Castro, then the only reason that a representative of the U.S.was in Havana, meeting with the Cuban president on 11-22-63, was to give the impression that all was well. I do not accept this. I do not believe that JFK knew anything about such plans. He said he would not attack Cuba, and he did not make such a statement just to appease the Russians. He meant it ! He was moving toward normalization of relations with Castro's government.

Terry

[John Simkin]

"If" JFK had agreed to the overthrow of Castro, then the only reason that a representative of the U.S.was in Havana, meeting with the Cuban president on 11-22-63, was to give the impression that all was well. I do not accept this. I do not believe that JFK knew anything about such plans. He said he would not attack Cuba, and he did not make such a statement just to appease the Russians. He meant it ! He was moving toward normalization of relations with Castro's government.

I agree. The CIA no doubt was still conspiring to overthrow Castro. Arthur Schlesinger was interviewed by Anthony Summers in 1978 for his book Conspiracy: Who Killed President Kennedy (1980):

“The CIA was reviving the assassination plots at the very time President Kennedy was considering the possibility of normalization of relations with Cuba - an extraordinary action. If it was not total incompetence - which in the case of the CIA cannot be excluded - it was a studied attempt to subvert national policy.... I think the CIA must have known about this initiative. They must certainly have realized that Bill Attwood and the Cuban representative to the U.N. were doing more than exchanging daiquiri recipes…They had all the wires tapped at the Cuban delegation to the United Nations….Undoubtedly if word leaked of President Kennedy’s efforts, that might have been exactly the kind of thing to trigger some explosion of fanatical violence. It seems to me a possibility not to be excluded.”

It is inconceivable that JFK would have carried out secret negotiations with Castro while secretly plotting to overthrow him. That makes no sense at all.

[Pat Speer]

"If" JFK had agreed to the overthrow of Castro, then the only reason that a representative of the U.S.was in Havana, meeting with the Cuban president on 11-22-63, was to give the impression that all was well. I do not accept this. I do not believe that JFK knew anything about such plans. He said he would not attack Cuba, and he did not make such a statement just to appease the Russians. He meant it ! He was moving toward normalization of relations with Castro's government.

I agree. The CIA no doubt was still conspiring to overthrow Castro. Arthur Schlesinger was interviewed by Anthony Summers in 1978 for his book Conspiracy: Who Killed President Kennedy (1980):

“The CIA was reviving the assassination plots at the very time President Kennedy was considering the possibility of normalization of relations with Cuba - an extraordinary action. If it was not total incompetence - which in the case of the CIA cannot be excluded - it was a studied attempt to subvert national policy.... I think the CIA must have known about this initiative. They must certainly have realized that Bill Attwood and the Cuban representative to the U.N. were doing more than exchanging daiquiri recipes…They had all the wires tapped at the Cuban delegation to the United Nations….Undoubtedly if word leaked of President Kennedy’s efforts, that might have been exactly the kind of thing to trigger some explosion of fanatical violence. It seems to me a possibility not to be excluded.”

It is inconceivable that JFK would have carried out secret negotiations with Castro while secretly plotting to overthrow him. That makes no sense at all.

Of course, beyond the coincidence with Johnson I mentioned , there is also the coincidence with E. Howard Hunt. In November 1963, E. Howard Hunt was, by his own admission, the chief of covert activity for the Domestic Operations Division. He tries to pass that off as being a book-reader and story writer. After poring through numerous articles and books on the CIA, I came across a rather startling revelation--which will, I believe, be included in Larry Hancock's updated Someone Would Have Talked. The Domestic Operations Division was, as near as I could gather, charged with trying to coerce and turn foreign nationals living on U.S. soil into U.S. assets. This means embassies...ambassadors...Carlos Lechuga at the U.N.. It was therefore Howard Hunt's JOB to spy on Lechuga and see if there was anything that could be used to blackmail him into becoming a CIA asset. Well, Lechuga had a mistress in Mexico City. By an amazing coincidence, Lee Harvey Oswald just so happened to visit this woman. There is even word he had an affair with her, or, at the least, spent some of his unaccounted-for time with her.

There is also the strange coincidence that the leader preparing to invade Cuba, and the man most hung out to dry should the Lechuga-Attwood talks prove successful, just so happened to be a close personal friend of Mr. Hunt's named Manuel Artime.

IF Hunt, with his pals Phillips and Angleton, had been using Oswald in some sort of operation against Duran and Lechuga, and proved himself expendable, AND Hunt then found out that JFK was back-dooring Artime, what we have said, what would he have done? We KNOW he was willing to kill Americans on American soil to further CIA interests--he and Liddy were planning to kill Jack Anderson. Liddy, by his own words, was worried Hunt would try and have him taken out in prison. Was it a coincidence that much of the info that Oswald was working for Castro came courtesy Nicaraguan intelligence, with ties to Hunt's buddy, Artime? Was it a coincidence that when Rolando Cubela wanted a sniper rifle with silencer, the CIA set him up with Hunt's buddy, Artime?

If Bush is gonna torture anyone, I know who I would nominate.

[Myra Bronstein]

I just read "Ultimate Sacrifice" and have a question for Mr. Waldron.

If the Kennedys were close to overthrowing Castro, why wouldn't the mafia wait until Castro was out of power to kill JFK? Wouldn't they want to get their casinos and property back after capitalism is, presumably, restored -- *before* assassinating their enemy?

Thank you.

Myra

[William Plumlee]

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Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee