Ultimate Sacrifice by Thom Hartmann & Lamar Waldron

[John Simkin]

Lamar Waldron has agreed to discuss his book here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5494

[Tim Carroll]

Lamar Waldron has agreed to discuss his book here:

Perhaps this thread could be transferred into the one on the books forum; too much has been discussed here to just start over.

T.C.

[John Simkin]

David Talbot has written a very detailed review of Ultimate Sacrifice for Salon Magazine:

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2005/12/01/review/

[Dawn Meredith]

David Talbot has written a very detailed review of Ultimate Sacrifice for Salon Magazine:

http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2005/12/01/review/

Bravo David Talbot! Great review. I had strong suspicians this book was full of disinformation from the moment it was described to me. And if Liz Smith- that great insightful political commentator- says it's "the last word on the" assassination issue, then the book MUSt be on the right track

It is truly awesome seeing some of these online journalists becoming so awre of the intricacies of the assassination so as to be able to write such a thoughtful review.

Dawn

[John Simkin]

Review in today's Independent:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americ...ticle330680.ece

Book links Mafia and plot against Castro to JFK killing

By Rupert Cornwell in Washington

Published: 02 December 2005

A new book has claimed that a group of Mafia bosses was behind the assassination of John F Kennedy - and had only called off at the last moment a similar attack on the President's motorcade during a visit to Tampa, Florida, four days beforehand.

Ultimate Sacrifice, which draws on a new trove of recently declassified documents, asserts that Kennedy was plotting a coup to topple Fidel Castro, the Cuban dictator, on 1 December 1963 - a coup that would have been followed by a US military invasion of the island.

Lamar Waldron and Thom Hartmann, the authors, claim the Mafia got wind of the conspiracy and then infiltrated it, before organising Kennedy's assassination on 22 November 1963.

According to the authors, the Mob believed that the federal authorities - then led by Attorney General Robert Kennedy, the President's brother, who was allegedly running the coup plot - would not have pressed an investigation, which might have revealed the plot against Castro.

Three Mafia bosses - Santo Trafficante, Carlos Marcello and Johnny Rosselli - are said to have been behind the assassination, as well as the aborted attempt in Tampa. Lee Harvey Oswald, was a pawn in the conspiracy. The book purports to show new evidence of the Mafia links of the nightclub owner Jack Ruby, who shot Oswald dead.

But critics have pointed to problems with the book's thesis: Robert McNamara, then running the Pentagon, has said he was not informed of any new plan to invade Cuba before Kennedy's death. It is also implausible that the Mafia, itching to get rid of Castro and restore Cuba's once lucrative gambling industry, would have blocked a plot that would have done just that.

[Tim Gratz]

Dawn wrote:

Bravo David Talbot! Great review. I had strong suspicians this book was full of disinformation from the moment it was described to me

Please note that, as always, if a book does not agree with Dawn's preconceived notion, it is not just an error of judgment, it is "disinformation"!

Dictionary definition of "disinformation":

One entry found for disinformation.

Main Entry: dis·in·for·ma·tion

Pronunciation: (")di-"sin-f&r-'mA-sh&n

Function: noun

: false information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth

Edited December 3, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Thomas Graves]

Tim, you are revealing your bias.

_______________________________________

Tim Gratz, "biased??"

IMVMHO, Thomas

_______________________________________

I fully agree Pat but we are wasting our time with Tim on this one. Tim will believe Russo’s theory whatever anyone says.

_____________________________________________

I fully agree, John, but I'm afraid that not only will Gratz believe Russo's theory whatever anyone else says, but also that he believes Russo's theory whatever Russo himself says...

FWIW, Thomas

_____________________________________________

Edited December 3, 2005 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Howard]

Tim, you are revealing your bias.

_______________________________________

Tim Gratz, "biased??"

IMVMHO, Thomas

_______________________________________

I fully agree Pat but we are wasting our time with Tim on this one. Tim will believe Russo’s theory whatever anyone says.

_____________________________________________

I fully agree, John, but I'm afraid that not only will Gratz believe Russo's theory whatever anyone else says, but also that he believes Russo's theory whatever Russo himself says...

FWIW, Thomas

_____________________________________________

I find Thomas Graves comments reassuring that someone is paying attention to Tim's "abandoning?" the "Castro Did it" theory to the new and improved "Mafia Did It" theory.

Tim: Contact People magazine I am sure they would love to put this on the cover.

With apologies to those who are in love with Ultimate Sacrifice.

When any Forum member doubts that the noble purpose of this Forum, I suggest they look at the "Members" JFK Debate listing. It IS a literal "whose who in JFK assassination lore." Peter Dale Scott, who postponed his newest work, to concentrate on research related to 9-11 and subsequent events ala "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael Ruppert is one of the few authorities in JFK research who is "NOT" a member of the Education Forum/JFK Debate.

Having said that "Ultimate Sacrifice" is IMO well researched and is part of the record of "credible books re JFK assassination," BUT and it is a big one, that has been articulated on this Forum by many; My problem is not the research but the premise.

"New research indicates that there was a planned invasion of Cuba scheduled for Dec 1, 1963. Organized Crime figures knew this and eager to 'reclaim Isle of Cuber,' assassinate JFK, subsequently 'de facto invasion of Isle of Cuber' never happens.'

Is reluctance to accept authors premise illogical?

In the year 2005 those individuals who want the Crime of The Century resolved are now being faced with the unenviable task of doing so while individuals come out of the woodwork to "reveal" they were on the grassy knoll, flew into Dallas day before assassination; not to "solve the Crime of the Century" but to make some money, and/or create a "scenario where authentic research is at best, problematic". There have even been (gasp) allegations that dis-information artists deliberately "work" on websites that involve analysis of "controversial events in American History."

I would ask Forum members "Do you think that people were coming forth in 1865 to admit "they were conspiring with John Wilkes Booth?"

No, the reason why is that they would have been hanged along with "Booth's confederates." But claims of associations with a conspiracy to kill JFK find a very disinterested audience from Washington.

(See House Select Committee on Assassination's recommendations to Justice Dept. regarding JFK Assassination).

In the 1960's while "mainstream media" was nodding, affirmatively that Mr. Katzenbach's "suggestion" that "the public must be convinced that LHO did not have confederates," ad naseum......had been implemented successfully, there was a small band of "American's" - Mark Lane, Sylvia Meagher, William Turner, Penn Jones, Harold Weisberg etc...who were sincerely trying to discover the truth about November 22, 1963.

For their efforts threy were mocked, attacked as Communist's, ridiculed as morons etc...While the historical record proves that they had done more than the Warren Commission did when it came to the "really deep waters" of what was at the heart of Nov. 22, 1963.

In the year 2005, what is really sad is the same media shell game continues, the "Operation Mockingbird" intrigues seem to have quadrupled exponentially, and a entire generation of American's don't even care about Nov. 22 1963.

But "We shall never surrender"

Is Gerry Patrick Hemming's next revelation about "Justice for the Crew of the Thresher and the (near)Connally assassination?

See Dallas Police Dept. Archives, Box 4

Edited December 3, 2005 by Robert Howard

[Gerry Hemming]

Tim, you are revealing your bias.

_______________________________________

Tim Gratz, "biased??"

IMVMHO, Thomas

_______________________________________

I fully agree Pat but we are wasting our time with Tim on this one. Tim will believe Russo’s theory whatever anyone says.

_____________________________________________

I fully agree, John, but I'm afraid that not only will Gratz believe Russo's theory whatever anyone else says, but also that he believes Russo's theory whatever Russo himself says...

FWIW, Thomas

_____________________________________________

I find Thomas Graves comments reassuring that someone is paying attention to Tim's "abandoning?" the "Castro Did it" theory to the new and improved "Mafia Did It" theory.

Tim: Contact People magazine I am sure they would love to put this on the cover.

With apologies to those who are in love with Ultimate Sacrifice.

When any Forum member doubts that the noble purpose of this Forum, I suggest they look at the "Members" JFK Debate listing. It IS a literal "whose who in JFK assassination lore." Peter Dale Scott, who postponed his newest work, to concentrate on research related to 9-11 and subsequent events ala "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael Ruppert is one of the few authorities in JFK research who is "NOT" a member of the Education Forum/JFK Debate.

Having said that "Ultimate Sacrifice" is IMO well researched and is part of the record of "credible books re JFK assassination," BUT and it is a big one, that has been articulated on this Forum by many; My problem is not the research but the premise.

"New research indicates that there was a planned invasion of Cuba scheduled for Dec 1, 1963. Organized Crime figures knew this and eager to 'reclaim Isle of Cuber,' assassinate JFK, subsequently 'de facto invasion of Isle of Cuber' never happens.'

Is reluctance to accept authors premise illogical?

In the year 2005 those individuals who want the Crime of The Century resolved are now being faced with the unenviable task of doing so while individuals come out of the woodwork to "reveal" they were on the grassy knoll, flew into Dallas day before assassination; not to "solve the Crime of the Century" but to make some money, and/or create a "scenario where authentic research is at best, problematic". There have even been (gasp) allegations that dis-information artists deliberately "work" on websites that involve analysis of "controversial events in American History."

I would ask Forum members "Do you think that people were coming forth in 1865 to admit "they were conspiring with John Wilkes Booth?"

No, the reason why is that they would have been hanged along with "Booth's confederates." But claims of associations with a conspiracy to kill JFK find a very disinterested audience from Washington.

(See House Select Committee on Assassination's recommendations to Justice Dept. regarding JFK Assassination).

In the 1960's while "mainstream media" was nodding, affirmatively that Mr. Katzenbach's "suggestion" that "the public must be convinced that LHO did not have confederates," ad naseum......had been implemented successfully, there was a small band of "American's" - Mark Lane, Sylvia Meagher, William Turner, Penn Jones, Harold Weisberg etc...who were sincerely trying to discover the truth about November 22, 1963.

For their efforts threy were mocked, attacked as Communist's, ridiculed as morons etc...While the historical record proves that they had done more than the Warren Commission did when it came to the "really deep waters" of what was at the heart of Nov. 22, 1963.

In the year 2005, what is really sad is the same media shell game continues, the "Operation Mockingbird" intrigues seem to have quadrupled exponentially, and a entire generation of American's don't even care about Nov. 22 1963.

But "We shall never surrender"

Is Gerry Patrick Hemming's next revelation about "Justice for the Crew of the Thresher and the (near)Connally assassination?

See Dallas Police Dept. Archives, Box 4

------------------------------

Robert:

The "Thresher" folks were quietly "squelched" [and mostl satisfactorly] some time ago when they were twice "confidentially" informed that there was a 99% possibility that:

Their "Boat" had a "close-encounter-of-the-hostile-kind", which caused a hull/bulkhead structural failure long before it reached the "Red Line Implosion Depth".

The Thresher, like the Nautilus (and all submarines since), carry an emergency ejectable capsule -- which is released when severe "bulkhead failure" is registered by the recording module contained therein. This was a closely held "secret"; and only known to the "cleared" engineering staff of the boat yard builders, and to only the "Key-Holding Officers" in the command echelon of the submarine.

Not that they didn't want to demoralize the crews, but more importantly -- they didn't want hostile entities discovering that all USS(BN) "Boomers" carried the equivalent of a passenger airliner's "Black Box" [actually Int'l Orange in color].

While a Marine, I attempted to become the 6th Marine awarded submariner's "Dolphins", and one those who hadn't earned them by prior U.S. Navy service. It is a long & hard educational experience, and requires the absorbing the intimate details of every last one of the compartment systems, schematics, etc. on a "Boat".

[However, during said excursion into the "Innards-of-the-Boat" -- no junior officers or enlisted MEN are ever allowed to learn about the Emerg-Rescue/Capsule devices, unless the are one of the very few technicians responsible for test & maintainence of same.]

This recording device carries all of the nuclear, electronic, hydraulic, etc. graphs of what has occurred during the entire tour of the submarine -- from "portal" to "portal" [dockside departure to dockside return]; and even carries the multiple voice recordings of ALL "Boat Compartments".

[As with the 9/11, TWA-800, etc. airliner "Black Boxes", they first wanted to determine the causal factors, and especially those which might later be "discoverable items"!! That is: in the eventuality of a subsequent lawsuits against -- the aircraft manufacterers, the airlines, an government (or private) air traffic controllers; and in that order !! The least given consideration was: That the families (or tabloids) might hear the actual "dying-messagesto-family", or worse -- crying, shouting, cursing, and screaming -- as the crew went to their deaths.]

The submarine "black box" capsule quickly "bobs" to the surface, and immediately begins broadcasting a "homing signal" [via encrypted "burst transmitter"]. Only since the emergence of G.P.S. and satellites, was the device re-engineered to included "Global" Longitute & Latitude" -- and thereby replacing the obsolete "Loran-C" L & L Twx-Repeater.

The fact that the "crashed" small aircraft E.L.T.s ("Emergency Locater Transmitter") were first only picked up by Soviet satellites, and they then notified Washington -- or the appropriate Coast Guard facility; caused a bit of alarm once again. The capsule is primarily a rescue homing device, and was oft considered immediately after the loss of the "USS Squalus" -- early during the last Century.

[This is the primary reason that the Russians always promptly reject all "outside" rescue assists.]

Nobody in ANY government desires to have flotillas of military and civilian "Rescuers/Salvagers" speeding to the location of said emergency transmitter !! Why? Because the recording device gives out a considerable amount of specific engineering/design secrets !! Moreover, while the U.S. based "salvagers" are prohibited from laying claim to any wrecked/disabled "Military/US Merchant Marine Hull" in international waters -- foreign entities of the very same ilk are NOT !!

For example, the Soviet submarine ("Boomer") which was "Lost??" in the Pacific, a few hundred miles south of Hawaiimore than 25 years ago -- our underwater detection devices [s.O.S.U.] recorded more than just the hull and bulkhead ruptures. What remains classified is: What "really" caused this Boat to plunge to the ocean floor ??!! How chivalrous it was that we: Video-taped the burial at sea of the Soviet crew, a copy of which was later sent to Moscow.

Moreover, the "Glomar Explorer" did indeed recover the submarine "fully intact"!! Our Intel folks first made a "deep-dive-robot-recovery-unit" attempt at securing the "recording device" -- and primarily to ascertain whether this had involved an encounter with another submarine, especially a "Hunter/Killer" -- and NOT necessarily one from the U.S.!! Oh Yes!!

There are indeed submarines from "other" nations out there, and they oft engage in similar "tactical maneuvers". The Soviets had more than one of their submarines "taken-out" by other Soviet Subs -- You know, what we call "Friendly Fire" incidents/events.

The Thresher was designed as a "Boomer", not a "Hunter-Killer". However, "Boat" Captains (either in accord with, or disobeyance of, direct orders) oftentimes enjoyed improving their tactical skill levels by:

"Playing Chicken" against Sov/Bloc, Chinese, North Korean, etc. patrol & transport submarines. However, and Unfortunately, when a "Slow-Ass Boomer" mistakenly engages a hostile "Hunter/Killer" -- our submarine is very soon in "a-world-of-hurt"!!

The greatest threat to ANY submarine while engaged with a Soviet "Boat' was: The "Crazy Ivan" maneuver, which involved the "Targeted Sov/Boat" executing an abrupt reversing of course, and rapidly closing on a suspected adversary -- in a "head-on collision" maneuver. However, sometimes "James Dean's jacket cuff" also gets caught on the door-handle -- and he goes over the cliff with his competitor !! [see: "Rebel Without a Cause" - 1955]

A family member who served in the "Submarine Sevice" during the Vietnam Era, commented on the more than one instance of a U.S. Submarine returning to Pearl Harbor with a large tarpaulin covering the sub's "Sail". [in the old war movies they called it "The Conning Tower"].

In one case, when the tarp was removed in a secure area, "lo-and-behold" -- there was a Soviet torpedo sticking "through-and-through" the "Boat's Sail" !! Just like in the skit/gag when Steve Martin, using that "jokester" device; and makes it appear that he has an Indian arrow piercing his skull.

NOTE: Google the "U.S.S. CHOPPER" and read about their mysterious plunge to the bottom off of the coast of Havana, Cuba way back when. Check-out their websites and you will see that: Even today, the lesser ranked former officers/enlisted crew members remain "Mushrooms" -- [K.I.T.D.F.O.H.S. -- "Kept In The Dark and Fed Only Horsexxxx".]

A couple of years back, one of the chat/lists which centered upon the "U.S.S. Liberty Incident" -- was closed down. And this occured shortly after most of them were informed as to: What that "murderous" attack by Israeli "defense forces?" was REALLY all about. At least they didn't go about killing themselves, like a couple of Cubans did, upon their learning of the reality: "WHY" the U.S. couldn't risk invading Cuba until the 1980s !!

Ask me about that sometime, and maybe I will "Fess-Up" some more ??!!

Chairs,

GPH

_______________________

[William Kelly]

For those unfamiliar with Justice for the Crew of the Thresher or the contents of DPD Archives Box 4, JFCOTT - was said to be the name of the families of the victims of the Thresher, some of whom reportedly visited a Mr. Bray, who worked for Bendix or one of the defense contractors on the West Coast who made some of the Thresher parts that may have failed when the Thresher went down (the date is somehow significant but I can't think why).

In any case, Bray's visitors threatened Connally, as former Sec Nav, and the scenario appeared very similar to the Odio case, establishing an alternative motive for the assassination, and probably alternate patsy as well, although Oswald was groomed to fit this role as well. There was a trial, Bray v. Bendix, and a film of the assassination, other than the Zapruder film is mentioned in the trial transcripts, of which a microfilm record exists (copy was reportedly sent to Gordon Winslow by an Ohio researcher).

When I became intrigued by the submarine connection I started a SUB file, that kept getting bigger when I learned things like - Clay Shaw wrote a play about a sub crew stuck underwater, DeMohrenschildt's friend Adml. Chester Bruton (of Collins Radio) was a former Nuke sub commander working with Collins on a new radio communications system for subs, and Navy Lt. Com. Narut said that the trained assassins were recruited from Sub crews.

General Dynamics, the New England sub manufacturer, also designed and made the swift boats that were to replace the anti-Castro Cuban CIA navy attack boats, and is affiliated with the Woods Hole acoustics lab in Mass. whilch is just off the private Island owned by the Forbes family, where Ruth Paine visited her inlaws in the summer of 63.

I don't know what's in the DPD Box 4, but my Sub file box is full, and I don't know what to make of it.

Just today I added to it when I clipped a review of a new book Red Star Rogue - The Untold Story of the Soviet Submarine's Nuclear STrike Attack on the U.S. by Kenneth Sewell and Clint Richmond (Simon & Schuster), which makes the claim that Soviet sub K129 was engaged in an attempt to nuke Pearl Harbor as a Northwoods type of instigation of a war between China and USA.

BK

Edited December 4, 2005 by William Kelly

[Tim Gratz]

Robert wrote:

I find Thomas Graves comments reassuring that someone is paying attention to Tim's "abandoning?" the "Castro Did it" theory to the new and improved "Mafia Did It" theory.

Sorry, folks, I am not abandoning the "Castro Did It" theory. "Ultimate Sacrifice" just makes it clear he had another strong motive to get JFK (besides saving his own skin!). If "Ultimate Sacrifice" is correct about "C-Day" being on or about December 1st, there is only one thing that happened that prevented the accomplishment of "C-Day". As the saying goes, you do not need to be a rocket scientist . . .

Moreover if the premise of "Ultimate Sacrifice" is true, it forever destroys the argument that Castro would never have assassinated JFK lest the discovery of his involvement would prompt an invasion of Cuba. He knew that such an invasion was only a week away anyway.

I have long posted (or at least I thought) that if Castro acted he acted through Trafficante, the mafia don that "Ultimate Sacrifice" names as a key plotter. The other mafioso involved would not necessarily have known that Trafficante was acting for Castro's benefit as well as Hoffa's.

Some have argued why would the Mafia have acted to prevent "C-Day" and their return to Cuba? IMO, the main interest of the Mafia players involved in the assassination was to get RFK off their backs. Trafficante was guaranteed the continual routing of his heroin through Cuba.

And although Larry disagrees with me, I think the timing of Policarpo Lopez's move from Key West to Tampa (the home of Trafficante) which arguably coincided with the real assassination planning, and his flight (read escape not literal flight) from Texas to Mexico City then to Havana is suggestive of his involvement--that together with the fact that he was in Tampa for the assassination that did not occur on November 18, 1963.

Again, it should be clear that "Ultimate Sacrifice" advances my scenario in at least three important ways: 1. It argues forcefully for the involvement by Trafficante; 2) it gives Castro a motive almost as strong as his self-preservation; and 3) it removes one strong argument why Castro would not have participated in the assassination.

[John Dolva]

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/...estapes/a1.html

This site provides a series of transcripts of the negotiations between the two Kennedy's and Governor Barnett at the time of the Ole' Miss crisis.

Some of the commentary is not necessarily correct but it does give insight into the negotiating 'style' of Kennedy.

The crisis proceeded on a number of levels. Barnett had his agenda and the Kennedy's theirs. A seemingly irreconcilable situation was ultimately resolved by the covert negotiations that were not publicly revealed. What it came down to was a threat by the Kennedy's to expose publicly Barnetts role and a refusal by Kennedy allow his marshals to draw arms. It appears that Barnett was on the one hand calling for an insurrection and on the other promnising to stand aside if he was forced by a show of arms. (I interpret this as an attempt by Barnett to provoke an armed confrontation. Kennedy on the other hand would have none of that and in fact tear gas was used while the insurrection led by Walker was responsible for two fatalities.

The end result was integration. (Katzenbach and Yardbroughs status in the south suffered.)

This situation is complete in the sense of having a beginning and an end with an outcome determined by Kennedy. As such it can be used as a micro study to understand the Kennedy-Fidel negotiations.

[William Plumlee]

deleted

Edited November 3, 2006 by William Plumlee

[Gerry Hemming]

It was Molina Rivera whom arranged for the 5 Castro aircraft to slip into Cozumel [without flight plans nor payment of fees to R.A.M.S.A.] 2 days before Rorke, et al. arrived from Merida [after putting LHO on a Lode-Star twin (ex-USN WWII PV-2) owned by, and personally used by one Howard "Gomer" Hughes -- and returned to "Lakefront Airport, NO, LA]. From Cozumel, they (Rorke & Sullivan) were [as prisoners] flown directly to my old base [bAM San Julian], and thence on to the Villa Marista in Habana.

What was it about the Rorke-Sullivan flight that would be worth such an extensive intervention as Castro sending 5 airplanes to Cozumel?

Where was Oswald on his way from when flown into Merida and what would the Hughes connection be to that?

Tim Carroll

------------------------------

I have been asked already as to why the hell I am responding to a Lancer, Wim, Weberman type xxxxx.

I still have the original cables which I stole [$20 mordida] from the little RAMSA radio shack back in the bushes on the east side of the Cozumel airstrip.

5 planes, because the Rorke/Sullivan bird was just the first of a group of airplanes scheduled to follow over the next few days !! More importantly, Rorke was connected to "Queen" Hoover (does that term somehow offend you ??!!). Some months previous, Rorke had claimed affiliation with the D.R.E., and was the reason that we took "Chilo" Borja and Joannides to the Hollywood, FL "convention-CON-to-raise-$-and gain fame" -- and threatened Rorke with exposure of the "Les Violins" fiasco [Feb. 1963] should he persist !!

Howard "gomer" Hughes involved ?? Who the hell knows, the Op with the Lode-Star was set up by Moody.

Others going to Cuba via slipping on board the Cubana de Aviacion bird refueling at Merida -- well one was Saul "Saggy" my wiiddle friend. I could give a rat's ass who the others were.

That would be Cmdte. Manuel "Barba Roja" Pineiro [DSE/DGI] NOT Fidel !! 5 airplanes an extensive operation ??!! GET REAL !! That was done every week for commercial purposes, and was sanctioned by the then Governor of Quintana Roo Province, Yucatan State. You know, Lazaro Cardenas, the ex-Communist President of Mexico during the 1930s/early '40s ??!!

Usually, 2 INRA planes were used. When I ran BAM San Julian Air Base [1960] I regularly flew to Cozumel without any flight plan, and fees were waived if I brought some "Abajo - H. Upmann cigars" from the nearby plantation at San Juan y Martinez -- which is a tourist site now. My last gun-running Op was out of Cozumel [Dec. 1958] with the load destined for Cmdte. Dermidio Escalona's Pinar del Rio ("Alzados") Sierra Occidental guerrillas. The load was retrieved by the guerrilla column lead by 1st Lt. Neil McCaulley (US Army Reserve), and who later wrote the best book on Sandino -- whilst professoring at the U. of Florida [Gainesville]; and is now retired and lives nearby.

During 1958, Howard K. Davis lead the first guerrilla/maritime expedition into Pinar del Rio, landing near Las Martinez on the south coast. Because the fishing village destination was call El Corojo", this was later written up in Cuba as the "El Corojo Expedition". Shortly thereafter, Davy started flying loads into Raul Castros "2nd Front - Frank Pais" which was headquartered at Mayari Arriba [La Sierra Cristal]. Davy usually landed at the "Calabasas" dirt strip, and one time had to leave his "Stagger Wing" Beechcraft there -- and Sanjenis or Jorge Sotus later told him that with Batista B-26s & F-47s scouting around, it was claimed that they were forced to burn his bird. Next time in they showed him a melted recip/engine block, and said that was all that was left. ["Calabasa" is Spanyiddish for Pumpkin]

Had Davy left the Presidential Palace once in a while, and gone to the Ciudad Libertad Airbase in Marrianao, Capt. Paul J. Hughes would have shown him his Beechcraft -- with a brand new Rebel Air Force paint job, parked by the control tower. Diaz Lanz had flown it in, and had Capt. Evans Rosales get it painted. However, Davy was "too" close to "interim" President Judge Manuel Urrutia, and was asked to leave Cuba when "Da Judge" fell out of favor with Fidel.

[Christy fondly remember Marrianao, a "burb" of La Habana]

I've never had the heart to tell Davy about his beloved Beechcraft !! Maybe he should sue -- they sell for $300,000 now ??!!

And you have read the already public technique for using the "Merida Switch" -- which I briefed Krulak, Cotrell, et al. on during Feb./ mar. 1963 -- in preparation for JFK's upcoming trip to San Jose Costa Rica.

One of the demands to be made by JFK of Lopez Mateos was that ALL travelers to Cuba via Mexico would be photographed and fingerprinted at both Mex. D.F. and Merida, because some "Progressives" were also using the "Merida Switch" to bypass being identified at Mexico City.

Maybe you should have spent your girly-men magazine allowance on buyring REAL books and documents !!

I am not going to tutor you on much of what is already on the web and/or has been at College Park for years !!

Where was LHO coming from ?? Well, dipsy-doodle -- Weberman got that 10 years ago -- don't you read his "Nodu-Rhoids ??!! He had been picked up by Rorke & Sullivan at "an undisclosed location" near either N.O. or Beaumont, Tex-Ass !!

Go on back to Wim, why don't you. Why is it these Trolls can't ask a civil question without including libelous accusatory statements -- or are you a Weberman lackey hoping to launch a fishing expedition by libeling somebody ??!!

GPH

______________________

Mr. Hemming. You spout of a lot of hot air and say a lot of things but as to date you have failed to back up one damm thing you have ever said. You say you have tons of documented support but fail to produce anything but hot air and wind. You say its true because you say it is. You have failed to document anything. You just rattle on like the old pathic man you are and expect others to take you at face value.

I take exception to your remarks on Paul Hughes and Alex Rorke, Sullivan, and others. Who did you think you are to pass judgement on those who can nolonger defend themselves. These were good men and you, Sir use them and twist their activities for you own personal gain. You are a sick man. A man that puts words into deadmen mouths so you in your warped way can obtain some form of glory.

You are so far from a professional operative it is pathic. You have infiltrated yourself into some kind of expert in your own eyes; a spoung that sucks up information and weaves yourself into it. You need to try and discredit others so as to "smokescreen" your disinformation.

The BS you put out to the girls, who were only wanting solid information on their fathers fate, is appauling. You pull good people from their research work and run them in circles with your falsehoods, them perhaps laugh at them and the controls you have over them, when they only want the truth and the facts to support the truth. Anyone who can live with themselves after that is really a sick person.

I was Army MI and CIA and proud of it. You Sir, could not make the grade or cut, although you tried, and you have never been able to live with the fact that nobody wanted you, then, nor do they want you now.

I can care less what you think about me or how you try to discredit me. You do not know 1/10 of anything about me or my background... pro or con... I would not give you the sweat off my arm pits.

Have a good day.

--------------------------------

NOW we have "Tooshy" giving a perfect description of himself. Yeah, was wid da "MI & CIA" my ASS !!

That is, unless you are referring to "The Culinary Institute of America" and "Motorized Idiots".

It appears that once again, you have gone back to the tabloids to soak up some more "wannabe" bullxxxx stories. And that you'll now feed them to a couple of your "Gullible-Groepies" !! Also, it looks like you finally have sombody who knows how to type in English, and doing your "Postings" for you now.

Funny thing, one of your "Gullible-Ones" stated yesterday that: You have supplied "Tons" of documents ?? Well, I can't find a single one -- and "Googling" your name is a complete waste of my time. Everything must be STILL 'Classy-Fried" -- Huh, wannabe. I remember when I was giving an asist to Pete Brewton back in '92, he mentioned your name -- but I was mellower then, and refained from "burning" your ass then, as a "snitch-wannabe" !!

Tell you what, find somebody with a scanner, and complete an affidavit under oath [Notarized] -- and with this same "claim" to CIA & MI "Fame?". I will then forward it to D.C. and see if they want to have a talk with you about felony violations of U.S. Code, Title 18. You got the balls for that "ACE"??!!

What a stupid xxxxhead -- "Gomer" Hughes was a reference to HOWARD HUGHES, asshole --Christy's dad Paul died way back during late 1960, so how the hell could I be referring to him, especially when I was still inside Cuba ??!!

Please give me a clue as to exactly where I might find "Your" documentation, other than the bullxxxx you fed Pete, Stich, Turner, and who knows -- how many other suckers. Clue me in, on exactly where these "Files" are, or does James Files have them up in Joliet -- saving them for you ??

I don't have to "document' a goddamn thing, as it is all over the web already, N.A.R.A. RIF numbers and all.

I wish you wannabe phonies would get it together. Why don't you explain to some of the "Sisters [and Weberman] that everything that they have put out is just my bullxxxx. That would make my family happier than xxxx.

Everybody wants it "3-ways" -- "Patrick Dood Da Deed", but "Patrick is lying when he talks about Da Deed" ??!! And I am NOT about to sit here and give out with hundreds of hours of typing, so that one of you sissies can sell it -- just as like Weberman -- NOT !!

Are we now going to have the Forum loaded up, once again -- with your endless scribblings, reciting inane and erroneous horsehit -- all over again ??

Let us see your "SWORN STATMENT" -- as to your bona fies; my testimony under oath has been on the Internet for years -- where the hell is even a paragraph of "YOURS ??"

You worked under Tom Clines, what a crock. And how the hell did you "work with Ed Wilson" during the 1980s, when he was already 4 floors underground at "Super-Max" FCI Marrion, Illinois ??!!

Get a life, or I might just have one of your former cellmates tell this Forum about how you spilled your guts about your bullxxxx future schemes --lying to get out of a jam-up -- by snitching wild stories to the Feds, or anyone else stupid enough to listen !!

CHAIRS, "TOOSHY" [And where is my taxi-way DC-3 answers ??]

GPH

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[John Simkin]

Just a quick note for those members who do not visit the book review section. Lamar Waldron has started answering questions about his book, Ultimate Sacrifce, here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5494