What's a TSBD?

[John Dolva]

I thought the Forum Members should see a related post, which I find fascinating posted by Greg Parker

concerning Joe Molina, - [TSBD worker on 11/22/63] who had some pretty interesting ties to the far right wing in Dallas.

Under "Joe Molina's connection to Gun-Runners"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...1097&hl=crozier

By the way, please respond if you are familiar with these

1963 Dallas Phone Numbers.

LA 6-3844

RI 8-6141

Robert, If I come across these numbers I'll pass it on.

I can remember reading this post by Greg at some time.

There is also a statement to the effect that the first hint of a conspiracy originated with Dan Smoot of the Dan Smoot report and the JBC. I've been for some time searching for a copy of this original 'report'.

Has any members heard of this and have a copy or can point to one?

[Guest Stephen Turner]

There is also a statement to the effect that the first hint of a conspiracy originated with Dan Smoot of the Dan Smoot report and the JBC. I've been for some time searching for a copy of this original 'report'.

Has any members heard of this and have a copy or can point to one?

John, Dan Smoot, now deceased, was a former FBI agent, who quit the Agency to begin a campaign against Government corruption, and Communism (how original) On Dec 22, 1963 the newsletter of the group he founded was devoted to the assassination, becoming the first publication to address a conspiracy, and who might be involved. go to..

My Webpage. yours for three bucks. Steve.

[John Dolva]

That's the one Steve, that gave enough keywords for a search that located the entire report plus the 9 december one in box 18 folder 5 #10 and 11 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/37/3751-001.gif about 16 pages.

[Robert Howard]

From an article about Richard Case Nagell by John Klein 'Richard Case Nagell - 1930-1995'

and a reported scenario for Oswald in the TSBD on the day of the asssassination.

"aware of this, and set out to try to do something about it, fearing the blame would be placed upon them or on the Cubans. Talked about Oswald being brought into the plan much later, and---you know, the interesting part about Oswald which, again, now, Nagell never said this to me, and it's hard to say how much of this is true or not. But, Kroman says there were seven men involved, in the initial plot, and that Oswald was told initially to bring a Mauser to the building the day before---to the Texas School Book Depository---and leave it there. And then, on the day of the assassination, this was---Oswald, not knowing he was to be betrayed, was assigned an impossible position during the assassination. The plan was given to him as follows:

"Subsequent to the assassination, he was to leave the building, but hand the dismantled the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle to a contact on the third floor. Oswald was instructed to leave the Mauser rifle, which was planted the day before, by him, at the site of the alleged shooting, and make his way without haste to preconcieved [place?] in Mexico City. Once in Mexico City, he was to immediately go to the Cuban Embassy, where he had been before, and give a code name. There was no code name given to the Cuban Embassy in Mexico City, nor was it ever intended one should be. Oswald would then be forced to leave the embassy, and was to be shot one block in any direction from the embassy by [a] CIA agent. It was believed that Mexico City police would then think it was just another killing...[unintelligible]...but something went askew.

'So I found that very interesting, and again I don't know exactly how Nagell would have known about this, since he was in jail at the time, or whether Korman was just making this up. But I found it, certainly, of interest, and noteworthy, and something to follow up.

"All I can say, in closing, is that I would hope, someday---Richard Nagell is now 65 years old---before he leaves this planet, we will finally know everything he knows, and if we do, we will finally be close to solving what happened November 22, 1963.' "

Kroman is David Kroman who was in prison with Nagell in Leavenworth in 1967, alongside Kennedy's appointee to the Secret Service Abraham Bolden, the first black Secret Service appointee; Another fact worth mentioning is that the judge in the Nagell 'bank robbery' case was Homer Thornberry who was with Johnson at Andrews AFB when LBJ arrived after his 'departure' fron Dallas. Mac Thornberry, is currently a politician here in the great State of Texas and is Homer's son if I am not mistaken. Same song thirtieth verse.

Edited January 25, 2006 by Robert Howard

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Pat and Tom, this is interesting, however:

...as the buiding was leased to the company called "The Texas School Book Depository" which had warehouses elsewhere as well, what would be more interesting to see is who were the owners of the TSBD (the company, not the building).

(Please refer to post 1 and 3 for some background)

The "one" that went home for lunch & was not there was a primary owner/partner in it.

It must be also recalled that the TSDB did not lease out the entire bldg. There were other entities located there as well on various floors.

There is of course also the curosity that some thought that the extra help was needed for the other "warehouse" bldg. which was several blocks away, but NOT on the parade route.

Part of the rumored "need" for LHO to be in the TSDB was the decision to install plywood-type flooring throughout the 6th floor, as it was determined that oil/stain in the existing wood flooring was soaking through the cardboard box containers for the books and could eventually cause oil-type stains on the books themselves.

Thus the hiring of the LHO look-a-like in the Altgens photo, and others, to do this work, and thus also the "re-arranging of the boxes of books on the sixth floor.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION

ON THE ASSASSINATION OF

PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY

STATE OF TEXAS,

County of Dallas, ss:

I, J. C. Cason, President and Treasurer, of the Texas School Book Depository declare the following statements:

The Texas School Book Depository was organized in 1908 as a sole proprietorship and continued in this manner until 1927 when it was incorporated under the laws of the State of Texas.

The Corporation's offices are located at Elm and Houston Streets, Dallas, Texas, and its warehouse and storage plant are located at 1917 North Houston Street, Dallas, Texas. It neither owns nor operated any other buildings in Dallas or in any other city.

The present officers are: J. C. Cason, President and Treasurer; and O. V. Campbell, Vice President and Secretary. The Directors are: J. C. Cason, O. V. Campbell and R. S. Truly. The Shareholders of all outstanding Capital Stock are J. C. Cason and O. V. Campbell.

The Corporation acts as an independent agency for a group of thirty-three publishers to warehouse and distribute textbooks to the various schools in the states of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, and New Mexico. It has no other business activity other than that afore mentioned. It is not connected in any way with any state or municipal government and operates solely as a private Corporation with a Charter from the State of Texas.

Signed the 22d day of May 1964.

(S) J. C. Cason,

J. C. Cason.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John;

Since it would appear that this topic is not dead, and you also like to dig into "Postal" items, perhaps the following would be of interest:

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And, since "Sims" of the firm was also a member of one of the most prestigious societies in the United States, which included the wife of H.D. Byrd, it is evident that the NO Law firm had many, many connections to Dallas, TX.

To include the family of Henry Malvern Marks (Ft. Worth), 1st cousin to Sumter D. Marks, another member of the New Orleans Law firm.

A member of this family of whom was married into the Van Landingham family, which included the primary investigator (ex-FBI Agent) who was employed by the Mississippi Soverignty Commission.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Name: Louis Roy VAN LANDINGHAM

Sex: M

Birth: 17 JUL 1899 in Lone Oak, Hunt County, Tx.

Death: 27 AUG 1994 in Dallas, Tx.

Burial: DALLAS, TX.

Marriage 1 Mabel Lillian MARKS b: 18 FEB 1901 in New Orleans, La.

Married: 17 FEB 1920 in Ft. Worth, Texas

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POSTMASTERS & POST OFFICES OF

HUNT COUNTY, TEXAS

1847 - 1930

LONE OAK (Hunt)

Van Landingham, T. E., 20 May 1913

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Steve Thomas]

Robert,

By the way, please respond if you are familiar with these

1963 Dallas Phone Numbers.

LA 6-3844

RI 8-6141

These are two numbers of several in Dallas that David Ferrie called.

You can see them here:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ferriephone.txt

Peter Whitney wrote an 1996 article entitled, "Did David Ferrie Lie to the Secret Service?" in which he identified who some of those numbers belonged to, although he doesn't tie specific numbers to specific companies.

You can read his article here:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/whitneyferrie.htm

Steve Thomas

[Thomas Graves]

Pat and Tom, this is interesting, however:

...as the buiding was leased to the company called "The Texas School Book Depository" which had warehouses elsewhere as well, what would be more interesting to see is who were the owners of the TSBD (the company, not the building).

(Please refer to post 1 and 3 for some background)

John,

Jack Cason was President, Campbell was VP and Truly was Superintendant. All three were company directors of the TSBD.

The TSBD covered Texas, Oklahoma. Arkansas, Louisiana and New Mexico -- same 5 states covered by 112th MIG.

The article you posted from McAdams' site, you shouldn't be surprised to learn, was authored by a Warrenista named Jerry Organ. His story that the floor laying was due to oil left from previous occupant is without citation, and really makes little sense. Why, if the book cartons were in danger of damage, would they wait almost a year to fix the problem? And if there actually had been oil on the floor, wouldn't the cartons have been getting damaged all along?

Lastly, in testimony, Ruth Paine said she believed Oswald worked at the old warehouse. Why then did she fear Oswald was involved when it came over the news that shots were fired from the book depository on Elm St, as she also testified to?

[emphasis added by T. Graves]

I came across this interesting old post by Greg Parker while I was rummaging around, do I thought I'd bump it.

Supporting document:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/cason.htm

--Tommy

Edited August 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Steven Gaal]

I thought the Forum Members should see a related post, which I find fascinating posted by Greg Parker

concerning Joe Molina, - [TSBD worker on 11/22/63] who had some pretty interesting ties to the far right wing in Dallas.

Under "Joe Molina's connection to Gun-Runners"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...1097&hl=crozier

By the way, please respond if you are familiar with these

1963 Dallas Phone Numbers.

LA 6-3844

RI 8-6141

Robert, If I come across these numbers I'll pass it on.

I can remember reading this post by Greg at some time.

There is also a statement to the effect that the first hint of a conspiracy originated with Dan Smoot of the Dan Smoot report and the JBC. I've been for some time searching for a copy of this original 'report'.

Has any members heard of this and have a copy or can point to one?

gun runners

Spider's Web

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6017&hl=spiders&page=1

Edited August 1, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Glenn Nall]

John, to throw more trivia on to the fire, I believe the Colonel Byrd who owned the TSBD was the same man who founded the Civil Air Patrol, wherein Oswald first met David Ferrie. Now ain't that a coinky-dink!

this thread being 10 years old, i'm sure you're aware by now of the extent to which DH Byrd is curiously, mysteriously attached to other assassination personalities...

the answer being, "great."

coinky-dink back atcha.

[Kenneth Drew]

Pat, I cannot of course go along with false pride but I love both the flag and apple pie. Somehow I suspect you knew that already.

I don't think there's a contradiction between loving your country and admitting it has made mistakes. A lot of the history textbooks appease the south on the civil war and the whole country on Vietnam, by insisting they were noble efforts. As Loewen shows in his book, the Civil War was all about slavery--states rights was a smoke screen--and yet most school books in the south gloss right over the S word. Certainly the North is NEVER given credit for fighting a moral fight; Lincoln is often treated as ambivalent and opportunistic, rather than as the anti-slavery crusader he really was. Loewen's follow-up book, Lies Across America, dealt with the local historical societies, particularly in the south, who erect markers and statues to battles and events and tell outright lies. I noticed one of these plaques in Memphis, by the Mississippi. It told the story of how Nathan Bedford Forest, I believe, liberated the city from evil carpet-baggers after the civil war. What it doesn't say is that he lined up all the blacks he could find and slaughtered them in the streets. Martin Luther King was murdered a few miles from this marker. It's long past the time these lies were removed from public places, the Daughters of the Confederacy be damned!

Pat, don't want to argue the point, but I'm from Georgia, presently living in Louisiana and I have quite a different perspective on the civil war than you do. But just assume that as the government and the history books present the story that they want you to believe, rather than what might have been reality. You've heard of the Warren Report? Consider that a guideline. Some of the things you stated above, you can assume to be 'history' not fact. I was not there, and do not know other than what I've read, but if you think Nathan B Forrest was a bad person, you should read up on General Sherman. I don't personally believe some of the stories I've heard about Forrest and if I assume some of them are likely 'lore', then I have to assume some of the stories about Sherman are also likely 'lore'. But I do know from my own lifetime, all the bad guys didn't live in the South.