Carl Jenkins

[Guest Matt Allison]

Matt, are you really going to be at BO's?

You know it! Also be hittin up 5 Brothers pretty often for the Cuban. Can't get that kind of thing here in Chicago. I can almost taste it already!

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas, you really are a doubting Thomas now, aren't you?

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You're absolutely right, Mr. Gratz. For example, I remember having some very serious doubts about you the very first time I logged on to this forum.

Since you seem to be ignoring the point I'm trying to make about your MO, guess what--- I give up.

It's all yours, Mr. Gratz. Carry on.

______________________________________

[Tim Gratz]

Aha! It comes out, Thomas, you too think you can guess people's motivations!

Funny, when I jokingly attempted to do that to John concerning his philosophy, several members almost had a hernia.

I also note you are ignoring the issue of this thread, which is (whether you like it or not) Wheaton's credibility.

Anybody care to answer my Post #56?

Edited December 13, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[Gerry Hemming]

Wheaton's first payment of $20,000 (in small bills) by "Shyster" Sheehan, came only after he agreed to continue committing perjury -- with his ongoing stream of ludicrous statements. All of this was in support of the fantasyland Andy & Leslie Cockburn script/book "Out of Control"; and numerous other wet-dream scribblings !! The Avirgan "couple" were paid an average of $50,000 per annum for their "cooperation" in this Soviet inspired "Disinformatziya" operation !!

[They may now claim "False-Flag" recruitment, but they all were definitely "predisposed" to the commission of these treasonous acts. A de fact sate of belligerency existed between the U.S. and Nicaragua (affirmed by joint Congressional joint resolutions and appropriations. They gave more than just "Aid & Adherence" to our sworn enemies !!]

[More than once i had to brief ex-POWS [Vietnam] or widows residing in Fort Whalton Beach, FL that: The reason that "Hanoi Jane" Fonda was never charged with Treason was that: Upon pre-trial 'Discovery" (under the "Brady Rule" & "The Jencks Act" she would have had a viable defense !!

Her defense attorneys would have thereupon centered upon the fact that: She, Tom Hayden, et al., had been 'false-flag" recruited by Angleton's MK/CHAOS. JJA had created MK/CHAOS as a counter to the out-of- control MH/CHAOS projects -- and the rogues running rampant under its banners.

I myself have been in and around a limited number of ex-CIA and Cuban pogues who: Oftentimes were heard to boast that -- the "Company" did indeed "Do Da Deed"!! However, they would NEVER foolishly involve themselves as direct, nor even indirect, participants. We have yet to find EVEN ONE Cuban who has ever duplicated the phony James Files, "Tooshee", et al. routine -- NOT even Orlando Bosch, Rolando Masferrer, Ventura, Posada, et al. !!

AND, in the right circles, that meant serious money in your pockets real quick -- ask Wim about just how that game is played out ?!

Chairs,

GPH

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This is both the best of Gerry and the worst of Gerry within one post. He tells us something credible: that while he's aware of several Cubans who've claimed the CIA dood it, he isn't aware of one who's admitted his own involvement, even though there might be some money to be made. This is within the realm of Gerry's experience and is certainly believable. Unfortunately, before that, he told us that Gene Wheaton was paid off by Daniel Sheehan, and that Martha Honey and Tony Avirgan were on his payroll as well, and that all of this was somehow "Soviet-inspired". This info should set off everyone's BS detector. If we're to believe, as Tim, that it's ridiculous for Jenkins to admit his involvement to Wheaton, why should we believe that Sheehan or Wheaton would admit that Wheaton was paid for the story, or that the Avirgans--career journalists who come to PUBLICLY DISAVOW Sheehan and his secret team theory--would admit how much he paid them as well... Unless Gerry has something to back up how he came up with these numbers, I'll be forced to conclude he just made it up... His motivation to make things up is certainly clearer than Wheaton's.

As stated previously, I spent a few hours with Martha Honey when she was trying to raise awareness of her case. Her main topic of discussion, as I remember it, was John Hull and his mysterious landing strip in Costa Rica. (Do you know anything about this, Gerry?) She told me something else which maybe someone can confirm (or maybe it's already been researched). She said that ABC News blamed the Sandinistas for the La Penca bombing within a few minutes after the attack, even though the assassin posing as a journalist (no, it wasn't Jack Ruby) was using a European passport, and appeared to be European. She told me that this is what made her suspicious there was something more to the bombing. She couldn't figure out how ABC would know who dood it, seeing as there was no one from ABC even at the press conference. She concluded that they were force-fed this info by the CIA (she may very well have been right). Of course, we're now supposed to believe that it was the Sandinistas after all. And this could very well be. be. But the point is that Martha Honey had legitimate reasons to doubt the official story, and legitimate reasons to get involved with a lawsuit against the government for almost killing her husband and then lying about it. I don't believe for a second she was interested in money or in providing disinformation about her native land.

So where do you get this stuff, Gerry? She had only the nicest things to say about you...

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Pat:

There are many other "former" Christic associates who still have "nice" things to say about me, and this was because I made available to them -- the witness, whose photograph was used on the phony Danish passport allegedly belonging to, and used by, the "Amir Galil" dumbxxxx bomber. And I had made a specific trip up to D.C. to do this.

[The "Galil" (AK-47 type) is the name of the Israeli assault rifle sold to Somoza, and most of the other Central American governments. They migh have come up with a more convincing surname for the "evil-doer" when they schemed to involve the Israeli Mossad in this matter !!]

I later met with two of the Christic "investigators" in Bud Fensterwald's presence, and at his office. [1990]

You might want to check the Christic "501(3)©" not-for-profit reports to the government. They slipped up in not disguising "expenses" to Martha, et al. as "legal & investigative" costs !! I am NOT saying that Martha "sold" her story, nor gave perjured statements in this matter. She was, as were others, led down the primrose path by professional "hostile" Intel officers -- who as a matter of course -- followed up the attempted assassination of Eden Pastora by their Sandinista cohorts, which is de rigeur !!

[The 501(3)©" reports are a matter of public record !!]

During February 1979, I was photographed by Somoza's spies while meeting with the leader of the Sandinistas -- whom I had trained in Cuba during 1960. I was later photgraphed standing in the jungle alongside Cmdte. "Zero", Eden Pastora a short while later.

Somoza himself showed this photo to my former Parabellum Corp. business partner, "Anselmito" Alliegro, [inside his "Fuhrerbunker" at Monte Limar] -- and this scared the xxxx out of Alliegro. Somoza laughed and stated: "...You guys are really cool about having your people on both sides of a war...but that is no big deal...I can understand why these things are done this way...so don't you worry about it..!!"

Anselmito's mother, Anita Duran, later found me at one of our Miami safehouses (via Freddy's inquiries to the CIA) -- and pleaded with me to not endanger her son's life by my continued support of the Sandinista insurgency against her son's employer !!

I was the one who introduced the idea of smuggling Colombian marijuana to the Sandinistas, and John Hull was a part of that drug interdiction deal. Moreover, this was the only way we could get Torrijos, Noriega, et al. to go along with supporting the FSLN effort, other than outright cash payments.

After the July 1979 FSLN victory, Ortega, Borges, et al. opted to keep Somoza's prime "Grass" smuggler onboard [General Genie] and left him ensconced at the Puerto Cabezas air base; where he continued to operate for years. [That is, until we brought in the competition from the Honduran Generals, and set up operations at our old (1974) operating base at La Ceiba, Honduras.

I am not a bystander in these matters, and I don't get ALL of my data from "bookreading"!!

Chairs,

GPH

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[John Simkin]

If Wheaton really knows who killed Kennedy why does he still refuse to co-operate with law enforcement authorities?

I mean if someone told me they'd killed Kennedy, and I was convinced he was a truth-teller, I'd be camping on the door of the DOJ and the DPD until someone decided to investigate the person's story.

Wouldn't you?

Wheaton only knows what he has been told. He knows that this in itself is not evidence that would get a conviction. Jenkins and Quintero would just say in court that they were having a joke with Wheaton.

However, Wheaton believes it is duty as a citizen to report what Jenkins and Quintero told him. He told the ARRB in 1995 but they did not follow it up. He told William Law and Mark Sobel the same story in 2005.

Wheaton believes the best way forward is for the state to grant Jenkins and Quintero immunity. It is only if that happens, will we have any chance of gaining the full truth of who assassinated JFK.

[Tim Gratz]

John wrote:

Wheaton only knows what he has been told. He knows that this in itself is not evidence that would get a conviction. Jenkins and Quintero would just say in court that they were having a joke with Wheaton.

Respectfully, John, you I think are just exhibiting your ignorance about law. I will somewhat defer to Dawn on this since I never practiced criminal law, but in my opinion Jenkins and Quintero could both be convicted solely on Wheaton's testimony, provided he is a credible witness. Wheaton could testify re what Jenkins and Quintero told him because there is an exception to the hearsay rule called statements against penal interest. If either Jenkins or Quintero were to take the position that they were only joking, they would have to take the stand, thereby subjecting themselves to vigorous cross-examination.

I am quite confident that there are criminal cases, including murder cases, in which the defendant has been convicted solely on the basis of a confession he made to a non-police officer. Sometimes, I believe, these confessions are even made to other criminals, who have sometimes been offered deals for their testimony.

Contrast that with Wheaton. Remember Wheaton as far as I understand is a law-abiding citizen with substantial experience in intelligence operations. Of course, Wheaton would be cross-examined probably in accordance with Gerry's posts. But it would not be as if the incriminating testimony was coming from a criminal.

So I think you are dead wrong in stating that Jenkins and/or Quintero could not be convicted solely on Wheaton's testimony. There is no legal impediment to this, so far as I know, and the jury would be entitled to accept Wheaton's testimony.

I wonder if your post might not imply that you yourself think Jenkins was in fact just joshing with Wheaton.

Moreover, there is no way that your post comes even close to answering the question I asked: why did Wheaton not go to a law enforcement agency with his claims? It is no answer that Wheaton thought his testimony would be insufficient to convict Jenkins/Quintero since what it would do, obviously, is launch an investigation into them that might vey well produce other inculpatory evidence.

And why didn't Wheaton simply sell his story to Mr. Dinkbaar?

[Ron Ecker]

why did Wheaton not go to a law enforcement agency with his claims?

I can't speak for John, but I must ask, which law enforcement agency would you have recommended that Wheaton go to? The FBI (Federal Bogus Investigations)?

Ask Sibel Edmonds how much good it does to go to the FBI about treason and other alleged crimes by government officials. And she was working for them. They fired her, of course. An IG investigation concluded that her claims had validity, but so what, the Dept of Injustice still shut her up and buried her claims. "National security," you know.

Anyway, don't forget, the FBI solved the JFK case 42 years ago.

[Tim Gratz]

Ron raises a good point--perhaps.

But I think the FBI in the 1990s may very well have been different than Hoover's FBI. Moreover, in the 1990s Clinton was president and controlled the DOJ so he could have gone to AG Reno.

Why is he apparently unwilling to talk to anybody about it at this time?

I think Wheaton should be interviewed by a law enforcement official. Then, he will be commiting a crime if he gives a false statement so he might withdraw his claim if it is BS. But if he tells law enforcement what he told AARB, then law enforcement should haul in Jenkins and Quintero for interviews. And take it from there.

This is either a primrose path or a huge break in the case.

[Ron Ecker]

I think the FBI in the 1990s may very well have been different than Hoover's FBI. Moreover, in the 1990s Clinton was president and controlled the DOJ so he could have gone to AG Reno.

You've got to be kidding. The FBI of Waco, Ruby Ridge, Filegate, Oklahoma City, and the Foster corpse with its magic car keys?

Clinton and Reno "controlled" the DOJ all right. They were two of the biggest crooks in the history of crooked government, and can take credit for bringing the corruption and politicization of the DOJ/FBI to full fruition.

[William Turner]

Gene Wheaton, note to the Assassinations Records Review Board on National Air notepaper (undated)

Carl (Jenkins) was my (National Air) Washington, D.C. rep. who connected me to Nestor Pino, Bill Bode, Rob Owen, Vaughn Forrest, Chi Chi Quintero, Nestor Sanchez, et al. I was V.P. of National Air in 1985-86 (see my Bio).

Nestor Pino was in Brigade 2506 and was captured at the Bay of Pigs. He was later sent to Ft. Benning and wound up a career colonel in the U.S. Army. He appears to have been available for anti-Castro operations.

At the time of Iran-Contra affair Bill Bode was Special Assistant to Undersecretary for Security Assistance at State Department. Knew Pino so probably involved with earlier anti-Castro operations.

Rafael "Chi Chi" Quintero was Bay of Pigs veteran who handled MRR infiltrations into Cuba. Associate of Felix I. Rodriguez who was also involved with the 1963 MRR coup/invasion plan. Later involved with Iran-Contra, as was Rodriguez.

Interestingly, General Escalante told me his operative Sgt. Hernandez had Artime's headquarters in Nicaragua so bugged that they knew everything the MRR was planning.

[Tim Gratz]

Ron wrote:

Clinton and Reno "controlled" the DOJ all right. They were two of the biggest crooks in the history of crooked government, and can take credit for bringing the corruption and politicization of the DOJ/FBI to full fruition.

Maybe Lynne is correct, Ron is a secret Republican!

(Just kidding, Ron!)

Question to Mr. Turner:

Have you read "Ultimate Sacrifice" (or at least enough to answer this question): Do you agree with its premise that there was a coup planned for early December?

[Nick Bartetzko]

I think the FBI in the 1990s may very well have been different than Hoover's FBI. Moreover, in the 1990s Clinton was president and controlled the DOJ so he could have gone to AG Reno.

You've got to be kidding. The FBI of Waco, Ruby Ridge, Filegate, Oklahoma City, and the Foster corpse with its magic car keys?

Clinton and Reno "controlled" the DOJ all right. They were two of the biggest crooks in the history of crooked government, and can take credit for bringing the corruption and politicization of the DOJ/FBI to full fruition.

Ron I have to agree with you on those two. I think you forgot Ron Brown and TWA 800. Regarding Foster, at least we had the Park Police step in and do a serious investigation while the FBI was undergoing "reorganization". I was hoping for much better from Bush, but have been deeply disappointed.

[Ron Ecker]

I think you forgot Ron Brown and TWA 800.

I was writing in a hurry to keep my blood pressure down.

Even Clinton aide Stephanopoulos, while still in the WH, referred to "the bombing of TWA 800." Of course the corporate media lackey who was interviewing him didn't correct or question it.

Regarding Foster, at least we had the Park Police step in and do a serious investigation while the FBI was undergoing "reorganization".

Of course the Park Police weren't qualified to handle such a case, which is why the body was dumped in their jurisdiction. The FBI basically did the "investigation," then rubber-stamped its own "investigation" two more times. Now government apologists can tell all the CT nuts that the case was investigated THREE TIMES.

I was hoping for much better from Bush, but have been deeply disappointed.

Bush's handlers have outdone Clinton, but that's to be expected when Clinton proved with an 8-year crime spree that with the American sheeple you can get away with anything. No crime is too obvious or heinous.

[Mark Stapleton]

I think the FBI in the 1990s may very well have been different than Hoover's FBI. Moreover, in the 1990s Clinton was president and controlled the DOJ so he could have gone to AG Reno.

You've got to be kidding. The FBI of Waco, Ruby Ridge, Filegate, Oklahoma City, and the Foster corpse with its magic car keys?

Clinton and Reno "controlled" the DOJ all right. They were two of the biggest crooks in the history of crooked government, and can take credit for bringing the corruption and politicization of the DOJ/FBI to full fruition.

Ron I have to agree with you on those two. I think you forgot Ron Brown and TWA 800. Regarding Foster, at least we had the Park Police step in and do a serious investigation while the FBI was undergoing "reorganization". I was hoping for much better from Bush, but have been deeply disappointed.

Nick and Ron,

Don't tell me TWA 800 was a conspiracy too. When will it ever end?

[Pat Speer]

Ron, to follow-up on your Clinton crime spree theory, I have to ask "was Ken Starr part of the plot?" I mean, this man had unlimited resources to investigate any aspect of Clinton's life he wished, and he spent the bulk of his time looking into a stupid lie about a blow-job. Furthermore, since Starr was connected to and promised future employment by right wing think-tanks and Richard Mellon Scaife, were they part of this plot as well? Were they rewarding Starr for keeping the lid on the "Clinton crime spree". Were they all partying together on the weekends with the drugs smuggled in by Barry Seal?

The Clinton death list and Clinton crime spree nonsense was a fraud perpetrated by right-wingers angry over having a supposed liberal (but actual moderate) in The White House. Please read Blinded by the Right and The Hunting of The President if you don't believe me. While Clinton was a deeply flawed human being, he was nowhere near the beast you make him out to be. If he'd been so evil and powerful, wouldn't Newt and Ken have disappeared long before they publicly self-destructed? Wouldn't his crony Al Gore, who only created the internet, have stopped you from writing about his crimes? (A JOKE)

Edited December 18, 2005 by Pat Speer