photo alteration by the media

[David G. Healy]

J. William King wrote:

Pardon me, but who the heck cares if Hill's foot was inside, outside, or if it was retouched? What does this have to do with the assassination?

Is it Hill's foot? Yes. He said so in his testimony.

Was the photo retouched? Yes. The newspaper photo and article came out right after the assassination, and it was thought *at the time* that it was Kennedy's foot, so it was "punched up" a bit.

So what?????

150 posts over something this trivial is why the LN community sees CT's as a bunch of nuts. Lets get onto something important for a change.

*Rant mode over*

JW

Well, Mr. King -- If, the DP photographic record is impeached, WHY? And who cares how the Lone Neuter community reacts? If the photgraphic record is FALSE, simple, own up to it. What's the big deal? Well, for one, the cold war is over, American people can handle things done for their benefit... If the record and WC investigation are falsified, falsified to protect the American people and AVERT a nuclear disaster, I'm ALL for that falsification. So the question becomes, why continue the charade --

Personally, I can handle LHO's involvement in the assassination (intentional or UNintentional), and multiple shooters in DP, I'd expect that. If, the Z-film is altered, there is only one question: WHY? Till that question is answered (and I believe it can be answered through forensic testing of the Zapruder film) a shadow of doubt

remains...

Edited July 11, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Bill Miller]

Nellie testified that she pulled him down into her lap and covered

him with her body. She does not mention Connally GETTING UP

AND SITTING ERECT afterward. Quite the opposite, she said she

THOUGHT HE WAS DEAD lying across her lap.

Jack, Nellie said that when she saw her husband get shot that she only thought he was dead at that instant. Nellie said that she pulled her husband towards her lap and leaned over him ... all this before she said the thrird shot was fired. Then Nellie went on to say things like ....

"Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us ....... John said nothing. I said only to him from the time I saw one little movement, that maybe he is still alive, and, I kept whispering to him, "Be still, it is going to be all right, be still, it is going to be all right.""

"John was still in my lap, but I knew he was alive and people were swarming all around the car."

Then after the third shot and Nellie knew JFK was dead, she had this to say about what her husband did next ...

"the President whom I felt very sure was dead, and just when I thought I could sit and wait no longer, John just sort of heaved himself up."

Edited July 11, 2006 by Bill Miller

[David G. Healy]

Nellie testified that she pulled him down into her lap and covered

him with her body. She does not mention Connally GETTING UP

AND SITTING ERECT afterward. Quite the opposite, she said she

THOUGHT HE WAS DEAD lying across her lap.

Jack, Nellie said that when she saw her husband get shot that she only thought he was dead at that instant. Nellie said that she pulled her husband towards her lap and leaned over him ... all this before she said the thrird shot was fired. Then Nellie went on to say things like .... "Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us ....... John said nothing. I said only to him from the time I saw one little movement, that maybe he is still alive, and, I kept whispering to him, "Be still, it is going to be all right, be still, it is going to be all right.""

"John was still in my lap, but I knew he was alive and people were swarming all around the car."

Jack posted Nellies testimony, no where does it state 'John Connally sitting up', quite the contrary! A conflict perhaps?

Edited July 11, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Bill Miller]

so where does Nellie tell us she sat John back up AFTER she pulled him down into her lap?

Nellie: "...... the President whom I felt very sure was dead, and just when I thought I could sit and wait no longer, John just sort of heaved himself up."

dgh: my knowledge of the photographical record is irrelevant, testimony is what I'm looking for, Warren Commission testimony in particular, you should have no problem **citing** Nellies testimony

Not only did Nellie say her husband heaved himself up after the kill shot to JFK, but unless you clowns are going to now say that the Miller photo is altered to show Connally sitting up in the car ... its a dead issue. Nowhere in Nellie's brief testimony did anyone ever ask her to give a play by play recall for the trip to Parkland and under the circumstances - who in their right mind would think she could give such a detailed statement. Even Jackie didn't remember climbing onto the back of the limo, but plenty of witnesses saw it and films and photographs showed it.

Bill Miller

Edited July 11, 2006 by Bill Miller

[JL Allen]

The hand of outstretched Clint Hill in the speeding limo photo angles back into the car at the top knuckle. The upper joints of the fingers traverse the elevated base for the optional "bubbletop" and then descend almost perpendicularly where they leave shadows on the triangular chrome strip. The base for the bubbletop is 2 or three inches wide - and the space between the bubbletop base and the triangular chrome strip is almost the width of the rearview mirror. The distance vertically from the flat surface of the bubbletop base down to the tip of the triangular chrome strip is another couple of inches. The length of the joint between the top two knuckles of a man's hand is approximately equal to the combined length of the lower two segments. The entire length of the fingers is approximately equal to the distance from the top knuckles to the wrist. This hand is way out of proportion - recalling to mind Oswald's "13-inch head".

(Photo removed to recover posting space.)

Edited August 14, 2006 by JL Allen

[David G. Healy]

'Bill Miller' wrote:

so where does Nellie tell us she sat John back up AFTER she pulled him down into her lap?

Nellie: "...... the President whom I felt very sure was dead, and just when I thought I could sit and wait no longer, John just sort of heaved himself up."

dgh: my knowledge of the photographical record is irrelevant, testimony is what I'm looking for, Warren Commission testimony in particular, you should have no problem **citing** Nellies testimony

Not only did Nellie say her husband heaved himself up after the kill shot to JFK, but unless you clowns are going to now say that the Miller photo is altered to show Connally sitting up in the car ... its a dead issue. Nowhere in Nellie's brief testimony did anyone ever ask her to give a play by play recall for the trip to Parkland and under the circumstances - who in their right mind would think she could give such a detailed statement. Even Jackie didn't remember climbing onto the back of the limo, but plenty of witnesses saw it and films and photographs showed it.

oh Bill, Jackie didn't sit down either, so you silly guy, below you say:

"Jack, so it never dawned on you that the gray haired individual you call JFK sitting upright in the limo as it enters the underpass in the Zfilm was John Connally"...

Let's see; Kennedy's dead on the seat. Connally's in Nellies lap based on Nellies testimony, regarding this threads photo and based on your above comment to Jack, we're to believe Connally [as opposed to Kennedy] is the one sitting up prior to entering under the Elm Street railroad overcrossing? ah Bill, whose the clown here?

Isn't it a bit of a strectch getting from "heaved up" to "sitting up"? Occupants sitting up in a vehicle escaping a murderous ambush? Hell, what was LBJ doing in his vehicle, many yards behind the ambush zone...

Common sense tells me no one will be sitting up, especially those that are wounded, mortally or otherwise?

"kill shot"? Rather clinical for a photo researcher isn't it?

Bill Miller

Edited July 11, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Pat Speer]

On post 170, JL Allen performed some close-ups of the Newman photo. If one looks to Hill's left wrist there is a black shape at a diagonal towards the back of the car. Could this be a small plastic cover attached to the side of the seat? Could this cover be protecting the metal connectors for the bubble top roof? If there was such a flap, then that could be the object on the other side seen in the Miller photo. Since the roof was put back on at Parkland, these covers would have been removed and would therefore not be visible on the photos of the limo taken in the White House garage.

When one looks at this photo, however, one can see some sort of triangular shape on the side of the seat. Does anyone know what this is? Could this be where the black shape seen on the Newman photo attached to the seat? Perhaps these photos can help us figure out what the dark shape obscuring the chrome is on the Miller photo.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Pat Speer

[Bill Miller]

oh Bill, Jackie didn't sit down either, so you silly guy, below you say:

"Jack, so it never dawned on you that the gray haired individual you call JFK sitting upright in the limo as it enters the underpass in the Zfilm was John Connally"...

Maybe someone else can post something that better explains what on earth you are talking about.

Let's see; Kennedy's dead on the seat. Connally's in Nellies lap based on Nellies testimony, regarding this threads photo and based on your above comment to Jack, we're to believe Connally [as opposed to Kennedy] is the one sitting up prior to entering under the Elm Street railroad overcrossing? ah Bill, whose the clown here?

So is it your position that neither JFK or Connally was sitting up when the limo entered the underpass or is it your position that you agree with Jack and that it is Kennedy who sat up and his hair has turned gray?

Isn't it a bit of a strectch getting from "heaved up" to "sitting up"? Occupants sitting up in a vehicle escaping a murderous ambush? Hell, what was LBJ doing in his vehicle, many yards behind the ambush zone...

"Heaved up" doesn't mean Connally puked up his breakfast ... it is Nellie's way of saying the Governor rose up in a sudden burst or effort. And without looking it up - I believe Johnson was being smashed by a SS agent sitting atop of him.

Common sense tells me no one will be sitting up, especially those that are wounded, mortally or otherwise?

Hey ... this can be your claim to fame by saying the 'Miller photo' was altered to only make it appear that Connally was sitting up.

Bill Miller

[Jack White]

By following the series of frames which show someone in the

right corner of the rear seat of the limo, we see that by

frame 465 that the "person" IS STANDING ERECT!

This can be neither Kennedy nor Connally (because of

evidence that Kennedy is dead and Connally has a

collapsed lung and lies across Nellie's lap).

In the tradition of WHISTLEBLOWERS in other cases of

this sort, I conclude that this is a tell-tale signiture of

an ANIMATOR of the film who wanted to leave indisputable

evidence that the film was an animation, BECAUSE A

STANDING CORPSE is not possible. This frame is at the

end of the film, where it was unnoticed till now.

Jack

Possible mistake. The person has no head.

Jack

Edited July 12, 2006 by Jack White

[Bill Miller]

Possible mistake. The person has no head.

Jack

Jack, you are looking at a small tree trunk that is between the car and the camera.

Bill

Edited July 12, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Jack White]

Possible mistake. The person has no head.

Jack

Jack, you are looking at a small tree trunk that is between the car and the camera.

Bill

I do not understand Miller posting Z465 and labeling it 463. The one he posted

is the one I originally posted. What is he trying to pull?

Jack

[Bill Miller]

I do not understand Miller posting Z465 and labeling it 463. The one he posted

is the one I originally posted. What is he trying to pull?

Jack

Jack, you have been told countless times that MPI misnumbered their Zapruder frames. The frame numbering was done by MPI - not me! Now what are you trying to pull??? Is it the clarity that bothers you!

Bill Miller

[Jack White]

Get up to date like all other researchers and use the

Costella combined edit, which has all the frames numbered

correctly and corrected for aspect ratio and pincushion

distortion. Click on...

http://www.assassinationresearch.com/v2n2/.../zframe001.html

Jack

[David G. Healy]

Possible mistake. The person has no head.

Jack

Jack, you are looking at a small tree trunk that is between the car and the camera.

Bill

this frame 463 -- this frame from Tinkster's 35mm Z-film, if so, the location of the 35mm Z-film print?

Edited July 12, 2006 by David G. Healy

[J. William King]

J. William King wrote:

Pardon me, but who the heck cares if Hill's foot was inside, outside, or if it was retouched? What does this have to do with the assassination?

Is it Hill's foot? Yes. He said so in his testimony.

Was the photo retouched? Yes. The newspaper photo and article came out right after the assassination, and it was thought *at the time* that it was Kennedy's foot, so it was "punched up" a bit.

So what?????

150 posts over something this trivial is why the LN community sees CT's as a bunch of nuts. Lets get onto something important for a change.

*Rant mode over*

JW

Well, Mr. King -- If, the DP photographic record is impeached, WHY? And who cares how the Lone Neuter community reacts? If the photgraphic record is FALSE, simple, own up to it. What's the big deal? Well, for one, the cold war is over, American people can handle things done for their benefit... If the record and WC investigation are falsified, falsified to protect the American people and AVERT a nuclear disaster, I'm ALL for that falsification. So the question becomes, why continue the charade --

Personally, I can handle LHO's involvement in the assassination (intentional or UNintentional), and multiple shooters in DP, I'd expect that. If, the Z-film is altered, there is only one question: WHY? Till that question is answered (and I believe it can be answered through forensic testing of the Zapruder film) a shadow of doubt

remains...

Mr. Healy,

If the truth is to ever come out, we had better care about how the LN community, the government, and the general public reacts to us. If we are to be taken seriously in our charges and evidence, we need to have some credibility. I've learned in life that the messenger is just as important as the message. I don't care how true the information/warning/evidence is, if the person(s) presenting it is perceived to be a "nut" or an "idiot", that information will not be taken seriously. I know, it shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is. We have to live with it.

Yes, photos have been altered, but not every alteration was for sinister reasons. I truly believe that the foot in the Miller photo was enhanced for publication right after the assassination, when the foot was thought to be Kennedy's. Lots of misinformation was going around in the first 24 hours, and while a good percentage of it was intentional, a certain amount of it were just simple mistakes.

It would be nice to tell if there was blood on the side of the car from Kennedy's hand (assuming the foot is actually a hand), proving a through shot in the neck. Even if the photograph could be improved to the point where we could tell for sure, whos to say the blood wasn't from the head wound? We'll never know because the photo isn't good enough for that.

I just hate to see everyone bouncing off the walls for days, and when we get done, be right back where we started from. Why doesn't someone find a Lincoln convertible, or other convertible, and try to replicate Hill's position, then post pictures? You could probably do it in the back of a small-bed pickup truck.

Maybe we're just running out of things to investigate, or paths to go down. As for me, I fail to see the signifigance of this particular photo (the Miller photo) in the grand scheme of things.

Flame away.

JWK

Edited July 12, 2006 by J. William King