Help with unresolved small leads 1963-1978

[Jason Ward]

I was motivated by the recent document dump from the National Archives to read through as much as I can.  This frequently lead me back to earlier documents from the HSCA or WC or elsewhere as I tried to resolve leads that were potentially unpursued.    Even with the internet, I think we still have some issues around duplicated effort and of course people like me don’t even pretend to have the encyclopedic knowledge such that I know immediately what was already investigated and what may still be left out there to pursue.  If you know anything about the following items, please reply; I’m especially interested to hear if the incident was investigated and found meaningless, or really any comments you have.

1.     MARION HAYS: she gives a statement to the FBI on 12-1-63.   She is a Bell Telephone operator in Atlanta and reports placing calls from an unidentified motel room caller to New Orleans and Dallas.  At first they tried information to find the number for Lee Harvey Oswald.  This failed in both cities.  Then the caller gave her a number to try, which did succeed in finding Oswald on the second attempt.   Later, this same caller attempted to rich JACK RUBENSTEIN in Dallas; again calling information for the number, finding no success, but, finally, the caller gives MARION a number for Jack’s sister, which is successfully completed.  This all happened on a Sunday evening 2 weeks prior to the assassination.  (there are several telephone operator incidents like this – did anything ever come of them?) see Item 4.

2.     MARY ODOM is pulled over by a cop in Ardmore Oklahoma because she’s driving back and forth with no apparent destination.   Mary is somewhat upset and tells the cop she came from a party this evening where the plans to kill Kennedy are discussed.   This is the late evening of November 21 through the early pre-dawn morning of November 22.The cop files a report, it’s forgotten, later no record of the report is found.

3.     The day of the assassination US Treasury bank examiner SHENKNER advised the FBI that a few days previously a parking attendant at the Adolphus Hotel (near the Carousel) had told them something like: a man is going to kill Kennedy, he’s a communist, and lived in Russia.   The FBI interviews Adolphus employees and concludes SHENKNER was drunk.

4.     The day of the Assassination a Southwestern Bell operator placed a call for a woman in Irving to a number in North Richland Hills (Ft. Worth)… hears the woman say, “Will lee get the bonus loot?” as the man in Ft Worth answers, “Why are you calling me, and don’t mention my name on the phone.  Kennedy has to be dead to get the bonus”  Woman: “He is dead, they just announced it on the radio”.

5.     WILLIAM CLIFFORD ANDERSON, 22, gives a statement to the Dallas Sheriff on November 25^th.  He is renting a room at a house which also has a guest cottage in the back for rent.  A pair of men rent the cottage for a week starting the Sunday before the assassination.  On the late evening of November 22nd or during the pre-dawn hours of the 23^rd, the two men come home and ANDERSON hears one say, “Well, it’s over.”  The other man replies, “Keep quiet, that guy is probably still awake.”  The two men disappeared, and the landlady invites ANDERSON to look around the cottage.  He finds 3 30 – 30 shells and a photograph taken at Guthries (which is formerly a Ruby bar and at this time still run by a Ruby associate).   One of the men gave the name D.H. McFadin and he is in one of the pictures ANDERSON finds.   He brings the shells and pictures to the sheriff…I assume never to be heard from again???

6.     THOMAS L. THOMSON writes a letter to the HSCA on September 19, 1978, I think from prison in Chino, CA.  He says that in May of 1963 he worked at General Dynamics Convair Division in Fort Worth.   THOMSON says that a co-worker named JAMES THOMAS talks of a friend in 1963, an ex-marine who had defected to Russia, returned, and was working in something to do with a Dallas School book store/warehouse/libray.  THOMSON says THOMAS mentions the name OSWALD.   THOMSON writes because he is puzzled after reading the Warren Report which states that Oswald wasn’t hired until October 1963 at TSBD, even though THOMAS mentioned something about Oswald and Bookxxxx  in the Spring of 1963.

7.     On November 26, 1963 the Spanish interpreter of DPD is transferred a call from a Spanish speaking middle aged lady who describes herself as a maid for a wealthy family.  The maid is trying to tell the police to investigate with diligence as OSWALD has been to meetings in the house she works at and there are many people working with him, both here and from far away.  The woman never calls back, no name is given.

Any comments?   Anything ring a bill?  Are these long resolved or still just of unknown significance?

 

Jason

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Steve Thomas]

4 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

  Even with the internet, I think we still have some issues around duplicated effort and of course people like me don’t even pretend to have the encyclopedic knowledge such that I know immediately what was already investigated and what may still be left out there to pursue.  If you know anything about the following items, please reply; I’m especially interested to hear if the incident was investigated and found meaningless, or really any comments you have.

 

Jason,

 

You might be interested in the thread entitled, "Erasing the past to protect a fairytale" by Arjan Hut in the JFK Assassination Forum here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,12623.0.html?PHPSESSID=da10693a75f6fceb0ce372badd010bff

I personally have found his work very eye opening.

 

Steve Thomas

[Jason Ward]

10 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jason,

 

You might be interested in the thread entitled, "Erasing the past to protect a fairytale" by Arjan Hut in the JFK Assassination Forum here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,12623.0.html?PHPSESSID=da10693a75f6fceb0ce372badd010bff

I personally have found his work very eye opening.

 

Steve Thomas

Thanks, Steve, I'll take a look.

[Pete Mellor]

On 8/16/2017 at 7:38 PM, Steve Thomas said:

You might be interested in the thread entitled, "Erasing the past to protect a fairytale" by Arjan Hut in the JFK Assassination Forum here: https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,12623.0.html?PHPSESSID=da10693a75f6fceb0ce372badd010bff

I personally have found his work very eye opening.

Steve, I've attempted to log onto this Forum but keep getting error msgs.  Any chance you could cut & paste this info, it sounds interesting.

Also anything else you may have come across on the Anderson/McFadin story.

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Steve, I've attempted to log onto this Forum but keep getting error msgs.  Any chance you could cut & paste this info, it sounds interesting.

Also anything else you may have come across on the Anderson/McFadin story.

Pete,

I kept encouraging Arjian to get these down on paper so they wouldn't get lost in the mist of time.

He did, sorta. He put them up on his own web site.

You can find them here:

https://jfk.boards.net/thread/121/erasing-past-protect-fairytale

Steve Thomas

Edited May 23, 2023 by Steve Thomas

[Mark Ulrik]

23 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Steve, I've attempted to log onto this Forum but keep getting error msgs.  Any chance you could cut & paste this info, it sounds interesting.

Also anything else you may have come across on the Anderson/McFadin story.

Duncan MacRae's forum crashed in late 2017, and all its content was wiped, so older links are not working anymore 🙄

Edited May 24, 2023 by Mark Ulrik

[Joe Bauer]

These ominous yet often dead-end side stories have always intrigued me.

I have several times posted that it seems logical that there would be many ( perhaps hundreds ) of people who had some type of contact with the main JFK/Oswald/Ruby story characters leading up to 11,22,1963 and who possessed 1st, 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge of information that would be revealing of truths different than what we know to degrees ranging from surprising to shocking.

And for every reason that people might have for never revealing this information, like fear for themselves and their families, they chose to keep it secret their entire lives.

Any information revealing about the JFKA and Oswald killing that contradicted the official record was always known to be potentially very dangerous to one's health.

That was the common thought back then and to many, even decades later.

If I knew something about the JFKA that would prove that others were involved and who they might be, especially if those involved were from powerful entities, I would be more inclined to not come forward than to do so.

My own sense of logic tells me there are many such stories that we will never be made aware of.

Yet, it would be fascinating to hear of even 1/4th of them.

The Oxnard Calif. call and death of "Karyn Kupcinet" is one such ominously intriguing story that has never been easily dismissed imo.

Another is the 40+ years late life sharing of a Dallas area woman ( Mary Ada Dowling ) who stated in an interview that she was a waitress at Dobbs restaurant on North Beckley in Oak Cliff for a year and a half up until 11,22,1963.

In her time there she remembered seeing Jack Ruby and DPD officer Jefferson Davis ( J.D. ) Tippit sitting together and talking in her restaurant.

I think she said it was more than one time. She also knew the woman Tippit was apparently having an affair with ( Johnny Maxie Witherspoon ) as Ms. Witherspoon worked with her as a waitress at Dobbs!

She believed she saw Oswald himself come into the restaurant. Remember, Oswald rented a room on North Beckley.

She also said she once remembered seeing Oswald sitting with another man and they both spoke a foreign language in their discussion.

Ms. Dowling shared her story over 40 years after the JFKA. And she did so....off camera. She didn't want herself to be seen in this interview video.

Does that sound like someone seeking attention? And she never made a dime from her story. She said she remained silent for 40 years due to fear. The most logical explanation especially considering the subject matter.

And maybe she didn't want to bring any pain to Marie Tippit regards her recounting her husband's affair with Ms. Witherspoon?

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Pete Mellor]

4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Pete,

I kept encouraging Arjian to get these down on paper so they wouldn't get lost in the mist of time.

He did, sorta. He put them up on his own web site.

That's magic Steve.  Should keep me busy forever!

[Pete Mellor]

3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

These ominous yet often dead-end side stories have always intrigued me.

Sure Joe, me too.  I'm aware of all your quotes & I agree, that if I knew about some JFKA detail I'd keep my head down too.

Recall the late James Tague.  Victim being winged by a ricochet shot in the Plaza and months later the feebees have him under surveillance.  Scary.

[Larry Hancock]

Several of these stories and leads are indeed very old and had been discussed for years when I entered this case in the nineties.  I immediately ran across them in the Third and Fourth decade journals in a literature search ....early researchers had looked into some the best they could and written articles for Jerry Rose.  I would recommend reading the Third and Fourth Decade Journals...all of them...which are archived on the Mary Ferrell Foundation web site.   You will come across several of the ones  you listed as well as others and its good context.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Featured_The_Third_Decade_Journal.html

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1115

 

[Pete Mellor]

11 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Several of these stories and leads are indeed very old and had been discussed for years when I entered this case in the nineties.  I immediately ran across them in the Third and Fourth decade journals in a literature search ....early researchers had looked into some the best they could and written articles for Jerry Rose.  I would recommend reading the Third and Fourth Decade Journals...all of them...which are archived on the Mary Ferrell Foundation web site.   You will come across several of the ones  you listed as well as others and its good context.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Featured_The_Third_Decade_Journal.html

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1115

 

Another great source of info.  Thanks Larry.

[George Govus]

Yes, must learn more about Croft photo No. 4. No. 3 I have stared at and stared at. Would anyone care to say which extant Zapruder frame corresponds with Croft No. 3?

Trying to answer my own question led to this article dated today from the Powell Tribune... synchronicity...

https://www.powelltribune.com/stories/silent-witness-powell-native-snapped-famed-jfk-photo,5102

[Charles Blackmon]

13 hours ago, George Govus said:

Yes, must learn more about Croft photo No. 4. No. 3 I have stared at and stared at. Would anyone care to say which extant Zapruder frame corresponds with Croft No. 3?

Trying to answer my own question led to this article dated today from the Powell Tribune... synchronicity...

https://www.powelltribune.com/stories/silent-witness-powell-native-snapped-famed-jfk-photo,5102

According to the book, “Matrix for Assassination: The JFK Conspiracy,” Croft took a fourth photo at the scene. He believed it was snapped at the exact moment as the devastating head shot struck Kennedy.

But when he received his photos back from the FBI, this slide was “a complete blank.”

The FBI told him his camera appeared to have malfunctioned at that moment.

[George Govus]

5 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

According to the book, “Matrix for Assassination: The JFK Conspiracy,” Croft took a fourth photo at the scene. He believed it was snapped at the exact moment as the devastating head shot struck Kennedy.

But when he received his photos back from the FBI, this slide was “a complete blank.”

The FBI told him his camera appeared to have malfunctioned at that moment.

Thank you, Charles. Puts me in mind of Zapruder being told he stopped filming while the limousine turned from Houston onto Elm.

[Charles Blackmon]

4 hours ago, George Govus said:

Thank you, Charles. Puts me in mind of Zapruder being told he stopped filming while the limousine turned from Houston onto Elm.

I am currently on the fence regarding Zapruder possibly being in on something devious.