David Josephs

Here's a summary of the responses so far regarding Audrey Bell's presence (or absence) in the room where JFK died: Response #1) Joseph: Miss Bowron is a back of the head witnesses. Response #2) Prudhomme: "Idiot!" Could anyone identify the names of the logical fallacies above? Anyway, please help restore Bell's credibility by addressing the claim that she may have made it all up. Here's a summary of the responses so far regarding Audrey Bell's presence (or absence) in the room where JFK died: Response #1) Joseph: Miss Bowron is a back of the head witnesses. Response #2) Prudhomme: "Idiot!" Could anyone identify the names of the logical fallacies above? Anyway, please help restore Bell's credibility by addressing the claim that she may have made it all up. Will this do Andric? On March 20,1997 Jeremy Gunn and I interviewed Audrey Bell in her home in Vernon, Texas. We interviewed her because the Warren Commission never did, and the HSCA only asked her questions about Governor Connally’s bullet fragments--business that was apparently not concluded--not about President Kennedy’s wounds. The interview was audiotaped, and four drawings called Bell Exhibits 1 through 4 were completed by Audrey Bell. Recollections of President Kennedy’s Wounds: -She did not see the throat wound herself; -Although only in Trauma Room One for 3-5 minutes, she did see the head wound. After asking Dr. Perry “where is the wound,” she said he turned the President’s head slightly to the President’s anatomical left, so that she could see a right rear posterior head wound, which she described as occipital in both her oral remarks, and in her drawings;

Well David... it leads to Stovall bringing the photos to the Paine's on Saturday... along with the negatives and planting them OR the Irving policeman who found them and gave them to Rose/Stovall...as written in one of their reports... I remember reading it, just need to find it again... the testimony does not match the DPD report... for Rose & Stovall... prime DPD suspects with Hill, Sawyer... among others The chain of creation to discovery for those photos would make of legends... we are aware that Robert Oswald was often mistaken for his brother... and it was Robert who produced the camera? hmmmm...

Sorry my friend... how does 31.75 FEET relate to 3.15 DEGREES of grade and why you use 10 INCHES of vertical loss ... Shaneyfelt was referring to the difference in height of the reconstruction car/JFK stand-in and the actual limo... not the elevation of the street.. So rather than put the standin at the correct hieght... we have math. Mr. SPECTER. Was there any difference between the position of President Kennedy's stand-in and the position of President Kennedy on the day of the assassination by virtue of any difference in the automobiles in which each rode? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; because of the difference in the automobiles there was a variation of 10 inches, a vertical distance of 10 inches that had to be considered. The stand-in for President Kennedy was sitting 10 inches higher and. the stand-in for Governor Connally was sitting 10 inches higher than the President and Governor Connally were sitting and we took this into account in our calculations. Mr. SPECTER. Was any allowance then made in the photographing of the first point or rather last point at which the spot was visible on the back of the coat of President Kennedy's stand-in before passing under the oak tree? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; there was. After establishing this position, represented by frame 161, where the chalk mark was about to disappear under the tree, we established a point 10 inches below that as the actual point where President Kennedy would have had a chalk mark on his back or where the wound would have been if the car was 10 inches lower. And we rolled the car then sufficiently forward to reestablish the position that the chalk mark would be in at its last clear shot before going under the tree, based on this 10 inches, and this gave us frame 166 of the Zapruder film OK... so they put the limo at z161's ESTABLISHED position and drew a line from the 6th floor window to where he was hit on his BACK... 5.5 inches down from the collar and over to the right... and it disappears from sight ON THE STAND IN, at z161... they moved the spot 10 inches LOWER due to the height of the recreation car and moved the car forward until the same line of sight was established - the LAST SHOT POSSIBLE to hit JFK in the back before disappearing under the tree and called that Z166... which, in turn means a 10 in drop in the road between 161 and 166. I think I got it now... 1) why do you divide 10" into 12" ? 2) at 3 degrees and even 4.5 feet, there is not a 10" drop in the street... you would have to travel MUCH FARTHER. So the .9 feet and 10" drop reveals some math BS.. 3) .833 x 31.75 = 26.44ft. Sorry Chris but this makes no sense to me.. 31.75 FEET - is that the distance needed to drop 10 vertical inches? We are talking about PRIOR to 166.. the missing frames from the WIDE turn onto Elm and the shot hitting the street around 145-150. Are you saying the MATH of z166 is really for a spot 31 feet further down Elm?

Really Bill? Not "William's" or the one from the front steps... I had not put that together... Means there may have been prints on them that could ID people who should not be identified... if one was a paranoid Conspiracy Realist. Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; there was a sack of some chicken bones and a bottle brought into the identification bureau. I think I still have that sack and bottle down there. The chicken bones, I finally threw them away that laid around there. In my talking to the men who were working on that floor, November 25, they stated, one of them stated, he had eaten lunch over there. Mr. McCLOY. Someone other than Oswald? Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; so I discarded it, or disconnected it with being with Oswald. Incidentally, Oswald's fingerprints were not on the bottle. I checked that. Mr. McCLOY. They were not on the bottle? Mr. DAY. No, sir Yet the documentation for such an act as well as the storage of evidence is not available... or even mentioned in Day's reports... Were WILLIAMS' prints on the bottle?

Hey there Chris, good to hear from you again. 1) Why 31.75 feet here Chris? 2) a 10" vertical drop in 5 frames or even 4.5 feet is possible ? The Survey legends that you've worked on and posted shows elevation at z161@425.95 and z166@425.70... that's only .15 of a foot(?) or 1.8 inches. The uncorrected version has 429.25 and 429.20 or .05 of a foot... 3) We know the speeds are impossible from the legend... and was created to hide the distance changes... And while I agree 100% with your math... It means that there had to be a composite done to get Altgens and everything else changed in the background/foreground of Zapruder... I find it hard to fit that kind of alteration into the timeline given the B&W photos we see in LIFE by the 29th... Altgens is NOT where he is supposed to be... same with Brehm and the Newmans... Can you help me understand an alteration scenario that changes Nix, Muchmore and Zap as well as Bronson and all the other photos showing Altgens' location ... thanks ---- Robert, yes - Brehm tells us the limo hardly moves from his shot thru shot 3... Now I have a thought from a project I am working on... assume Oswald the shooter... he has to judge the speed and location the limo is moving to accurately aim... The back shot SHOULD be considered a miss by him (the scope caused shots to go high and to the right... isn't the back wound high and to the right of JFK's heart?) since he prepared for yet another shot. From z225, reload and reacquire to 313... which according to the same legend was 77 feet further down Elm. or 50 feet from 255 when those at the scene state it was no more than 15 feet... To cover 50 feet from 255 to 313 (3.17 seconds) the limo's speed is 11.2. Yet the witnesses state it slowed severely at this point... If a shooter is aiming and leading the limo, and all of a sudden the limo slows when a reasonable person would assume the limo would speed up with nothing but Stemmons ahead... How does a semi-inexperienced shooter make adjustments via a scope, so quickly? (If you have the stable Zfilm version in Quicktime you can run it BACKWARD to see just how much the limo slows... IMO to less than 4mph.. and may be the reason one of the shots hit JC from behind... leading JFK from the WEST windows or WEST side of TSBD and then all of a sudden slowing would put JC right in the line of fire... --- In the end the biggest stumbling block for me is how the film moved the foreground and background 30 feet... David Healy will tell us it was the composite work at Hawkeyeworks... Since I still believe that skills and abilities in the private CIA world far exceeded what was available to the public... and there was a very close relationship between CIA and the movie industry... all that was needed was the old magic trick's misdirection... The earliest SS/FBI reports from Dallas on what is on the film is very generic and low on details FROM the film... but it was seen enough early on to know well in advance what needed to be done... add back that the film was in the process of alteration within hours of the autopsy and there was a direct line from Rowley to the morgue... and you get my drift. DJ

Pat - take a second and put yourself back in 1967... unless you had taken the time and effort to wade thru the evidence or read Lane, Salandria, Meager, Weisberg... you BELIEVED WHAT YOU WERE TOLD... you may not like it, you may think there was something fishy... but you had no idea what the evidence showed... You read a book, do some research and lo and behold, CONSPIRACY. They didn't FAKE IT TO SHOW MORE THAN ONE SHOOTER, they simply could not hide all the real FACTS of the case. You really need to read Lifton's section on the autopsy and the condition of the brain/skull to fully appreciate the extent of the faking of that evidence. You need to more fully understand what transpired between 6:35 and 8pm and why the Navy Brass helped in the charade. Here's a news flash... THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE SHOOTER PAT... there may have been three if not four... in 1963 the evidence was altered and the FAITH OF THE NATION was put in the WC and their conclusion... Specter even tells us that we needed to accept the weight of these men's reputations over the discrepencies in the evidence... Those that told a different story or attempted to tell the truth were attacked and supressed - yet to you this is the act of an innocent government? You honestly believe the autopsy represented the condition of the body at Parkland? That simply boggles the mind... Read Lifton again and tell us why PARKLAND PROS would attempt to put a trach tube into a person in THAT condition... --- It would be really good if you refrained from generalizations. "alterationists" sound too much like "crazy conspiracy theorists" to me... Once you begin to understand the extent of the manipulation of the evidence that occurred in every area on every level... I find it amazing that you can also state that this was not the case with the Zfilm... The one film that the SS did not confiscate - overtly. The one film that is not argued with by the "experts" who claim it clearly shows shots only from behind... The only thing that need happen for my alteration theory to work is Zap filming at 48fps for those 6 to 11 seconds... YOUR analysis places all the shots that hit coming from behind... you even have the impossible bullet falling out the front of JFK's neck inthe face of ALL the evidence to the contrary... so as you can tell, I do not suggest there was only one shooter from behind.... I suggest that there isnot a single piece of evidence in the entire case that you can point to with 100% certainty that it is authentic and representative of the situation.. If you have something that fits that bill - please post here or start a new thread... I have yet to see one that does not support conspiracy... yet you think these photos and xrays which contradict each other let alone tax the bounds of reality - are authentic.... as you say... feel free to believe whatever you like... no matter how it flies in the face of logic and rational thought

Not only the WC but every investigation since.... This is the FBI's primae facia case against a 6th floor shooter from that window, ergo Oswald, yet they are never asked to explain or justify these conclusions. All I'd like to know is HOW they arrived at these shot locations... FBI Inspector Leo Gauthier is named by Hoover as the FBI liason to the WC regarding the models.. CE878, CE879 & CE880 are photos from WCD298 depicting the model... and Gauthier testified for the WCR.... http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/gauthier.htm By focusing the question on the model itself and NOT showing the images depicting the shots... the entire thrust of the model is lost. Mr. SPECTER. And what model reproduction, if any, did you make of the scene of the assassination itself? Mr. GAUTHIER. The data, concerning the scene of the assassination, was developed by the Bureau's Exhibits Section, including myself, at the site on December 2, 3, and 4,. of 1963. From this data we built a three-dimensional exhibit, one-quarter of an inch to the foot. It contained the pertinent details of the site, including street lights, catch basin, concrete structures in the area, including buildings, grades, scale models of the cars that comprised the motorcade, consisting of the police lead car, the Presidential car, the followup car, the Lincoln open car that the Vice President was riding in, and the followup car behind the Vice-Presidential car. This again reinforces the selectivity of the WC lawyers with regards to source materials... WCD298 is buried while 3 photos are used to represent the efforts of the FBI... that they painstakingly produced a model that offered no conclusions within the WCR seems a bit odd.... we only learn the purpose of the model in WCD298's preface... and in the detailed measurements offered within the doc. Sure be nice if someone at the FBI could answer for this... Mr. GAUTHIER: The models were delivered to the Commission's building and installed in the exhibits room on the first floor, on January 20, 1964.

Pat... BRAIN photos from the autopsy... the evidence related to the Brain, like the autopsy, is that neither are authentic... neither are original... and neither has to do with what happened to JFK. So these are the photos you use as supporting evidence? What convinces YOU that the photos showing the brain you are using to describe JFK is indeed JFK's brain? You make the same surprised comments about what we read in the autopsy report... as if THAT accurately describes what happened in Dallas as opposed to what HUMES did to the skull.... Why do you accept so much evidence ...evidence that was created to leave its mark on history and tell a story that BECOMES about a lone shooter high and to the rear... in favor of of it being reflective of the situation.... I just don't get it...

Pat offers the 3d Morph of the BOH images - I wanted to be sure which spot he was talking about... this is a spot well below the acknowledged "hovering hair" portion of the image... Do YOU see a hole?

Touche Robert.... I've read Pat's conclusions... he appears to be defending the medical evidence as authentic and representatvie of the rear hitting shots and the blow out of the frontal bone. It's as if the ARRB never happened. Shot #1.Approximate firing time: Zapruder frame 188. Hit Kennedy in back around 190, fell out in limousine. (Possibly a hand-loaded bullet.) From: the sixth floor window of the TSBD. Shot #1 he suggests may have been what becomes CE399... hitting at z190 (hmmm, just the same as what LIFE says that not a single person at NPIC agrees with... ?? Nor could they understand how LIFE arrived at the frames for the 1st or 2nd shot... (see the CIA450 pages from NPIC). They simply do not agree with the conclusions offered by LIFE in ANY respect.. Does Pat forget that CE399 was never in Dallas? That there is no way to get it TO Dallas? and there is no indications anywhere that CE399 came into contact with anything human until Rowley hands it to Todd? There is NO Z224 (or Z222) in ANY scenario... that makes sense to the NPIC. But Z242 is very high on their list.... here are the Zframes the NPIC and LIFE say shots hit their target.... "Shot or shots #2.Approximate firing time: Zapruder frame 222. Hit Kennedy in hairline at frame 224, exited his throat. Connally wounded in his chest, wrist, and thigh. Wounds seem instantaneous, but it seems likely they were created by separate bullets rapid-fired from a semi-automatic weapon. From: most likely the upper floors or roof of the Dal-Tex Building." So those who have actually viewed the film repeatedly tell us that they see no evidence of a shot between 213 and 242... Are they looking at the same film as we are? Z264?? I am posting the first couple pages of the NPIC evidence below to see that determining which frames had shots was a MATH PROBLEM and not a VISUAL one... As you can see below, the "starred" column from the NPIC has the shot sequence 213-242-312 He has the SECOND SHOT from BEHIND, exiting his throat - when that flies in the face of all reality and testimony from those who actually see the wound. ER professionals who know much less about it than you or I or Pat does... idiots charged with saving people's lives under intense pressure requiring the correct triage and treatment of gunshot victims... Obviously PAT would know better what they saw and thought... From an executive meeting we have the following Rankin exchange with Boggs... maybe PAT or ANDRIC can copy/paste that statement from the autopsy report.... in essence, an AUTOPSY REPORT that was changed or destroyed (as there is no reference to this injury as described in the extant report) suggests a fragment thru the neck yet not a bullet... nor another hole higher up... the repeated HOPE that shots were fired from behind other than the back wound (which O'Connor tells us was removed from the intercostal muscles on the right side of the ribcage)... The SS tells of a bullet ledged behind JFK's ear... which the FBI would also acquire (Belmont to Tolson 11/22 learned about DURING the autopsy).. maybe THAT was the throat bullet... Yet to continue to disregard ANY of the reliable evidence in determining the time and location of the shots... ?? Mr. Rankin: Then there‘s a great range of material in regards to the wound and the autopsy and this point of exit or entrance of the bullet in the front of the neck, and that all has to be developed much more than we have at the present time. We have an explanation there in the autopsy that probably a fragment came out the front of the neck, but with the elevation the shot must have come from, and the angle, it seems quite apparent, since we have the picture of where the bullet entered in the back, that the bullet entered below the shoulder blade to the right of the backbone, which is below the place where the picture shows the bullet came out in the neckband of the shirt in front, and the bullet, according to the autopsy didn't strike any bone at all, that particular bullet, and go through. So that how it could turn, and -- Rep. Boggs. I thought I read that bullet just went in a finger's length. Mr. Rankin. That is what they first said Shot #3. Approximate firing time: Zapruder frame 310-311. Hit Kennedy near the temple at frame 313. Bullet fragmented. One piece of its core seems to have continued on to chip the concrete near Tague around 319. From: the sixth floor window of the TSBD First off I MUST say that Pat has done amazing work and willingly shares his thoughts and conclusions for all to see (and attack) I simply disagree with the offered conclusions, as does the vast majority of the authenticated evidence (regardless of WHEN the NPIC pages where created, they represent the work of NPIC pros in trying to analyze the film to find evidence of shots hitting their target. There is no justification for wither NPIC or LIFE to have ignored a shot between 213 and 242... there is NO SHOT at 264, unless the frame numbers are terribly off between what they saw and what we have... and even the photos used for Homer's panels jump from 331 to 380-something... NO ONE except the FBI as I posted elsewhere (WCD298), would deal with anything between 331/2 and the end of the film. I for one would love an answer to how the fragments wind up above and suspended in thin air when there is no bullet hole up there and the reliable witnesses prior to USG intervention all state the injury was to the right rear of the skull... and what all the activity and evidence is from behind that fence... Thanks DJ

Thanks Vince.... It would be one thing if, with the manipulation of the image, the rest of the blacks got crushed like that... but they don't. If anyone has a bigger and better version of that frame I would greatly appreacite an email with the file attached at full size and resolution... Regarding the EXIT... Is it possible to have removed a trail of particles similar to those on the xray that would have led to the lower right rear? I ask since it is obvious the bullet hitting him in the right temple area completely fragmented to a level beyond that which is possible from a FMJ bullet at that speed... The bullet speed of the MC is simply not high enough to cause the fragmentation we see in the xray... even at 3200+fps we do not get a micro dust trail of particles.. Since the throat was never properly opened during the autopsy... is it possible for a shot there to blow out the lower back of the head? While the temple shot simply adds to the damage? Those particles on the xray are very puzzling. Could the reason we do not have the neck region in either of these xrays (or any xray I have seen) be becuase there WAS a trail of particles from the throat wound to the rear blow-out and when HUMES destroyed the evidence he simply could not remove all the particles? Dr. Mantik's conclusion that the blow out area is artificially covered in the copied xrays and the removal of most if not all the brain matter that may ahve held these perticels and shown this path is the reason why the brain had to disappear. TOO MANY WITNESSES describe and draw a hole in the right rear... Bone was missing from this spot, not only avulsed OUT... there is obviously something being hidden at the right temple... the LEFT side of the skull is pretty messed up too by this time... again, another conflict... The xrays and photos not only conflict, but are mutually exclusive. Where from behind could a shot have entered to leave those fragments and leave a wound as seen at Parkland? It couldn't. EVERYONE in DALLAS, the SS and the FBI all put the wound at the right rear... everything from the storming out with the body of JFK is a stage play... I doubt there are more than a handful of authentic pieces of evidence related to the medical situation... and nothing that would reveal what actually happened. KNOWLEDGE : The classical definition, described but not ultimately endorsed by Plato,[3] specifies that a statement must meet three criteria in order to be considered knowledge: it must be justified, true, and believed. "True" seems to be the only stumbling block here... yet according to history, the WCR is knowledge whose "truth" has been vigorously defended for over 50 years. In the absence of another justified and believed TRUTH... well you get it... DJ Dr. PERRY - Yes. Once the transverse incision through the skin and subcutaneous tissues was made, it was necessary to separate the strap muscles covering the anterior muscles of the windpipe and thyroid. At that point the trachea was noted to be deviated slightly to the left and I found it necessary to sever the exterior strap muscles on the other side to reach the trachea. I noticed a small ragged laceration of the trachea on the anterior lateral right side. I could see the endotracheal tube which had been placed by Dr. Carrico in the wound, but there was evidence of air and blood around the tube because I noted the cuff was just above the injury to the trachea.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20949 Since this thread should concentrate on OSWALD LEAVING THE TSBD, I started a thread about potential trajectories and WCD 298 DJ

I've posted this before yet I do not think the implications of such a display have been fully appreciated... The FBI created a scale model of DP as well as the DPD basement to "re-enact" the shootings via 3D model. When seeing this WCD entitled: "Commission Document 298 - FBI Letter from Director of 20 Jan 1964 with Visual Aides Brochure" One has no idea what treasure lies within... Under Hoover's name we are told that this model of DP is so good that there is no need to go to DP at all - this model explains it all http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10699&relPageId=6 "These 3d models will assist eye witnesses in clearly demonstrating their recollection of the events...." The FBI puts a shot : Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct. CE875: The photographs in the album are to be viewed in their relationship with the attached survey report dated December 5,1963 . In each case the rear bumper is above the point referred to a picture was taken at each point from 0+00 to the 6+25 mark,except no picture was taken at 5+00 mark as this was about 4 feet from impact of the third shot . These pictures have been made to scale so as to show the same perspective as the human eye when held at a distance of about 16 inches from the eye . Photographs showing the camera arrangement used to take the pictures and the moving pictures of these scenes are included in this album . (commission exhibit 875 con't) DJ: 4 feet from 5+00 is 4+96... whereas the plat and legends put the shot at 4+65, 30 feet further UP ELM. http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0464b.htm 4+65 is the location of the "X" on the street for Z313... when in fact the WCR puts the shot at a variety of locations (headshot) . Mr. LIEBELER - So, you were standing about where I placed the "X" on photograph No. 18 of Commission Exhibit No. 875. <snip> Mr. HUDSON - Yes; so right along about even with these steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired - somewhere right along in there. Based on seeing the base of the lamppost in the background of z375 and the best guess estimate of the line of sight thru the car modeled as the LAST shot, I estimated z375 give or take some frames. This, like so much contained in the WCDocs never sees a commissoner or the light of day until uncovered years later. The EVIDENCE states that a shot was fired before the first one in this model - ignored The EVIDENCE states that a shot missed, hit a curb, and wounded Tague - ignored The EVIDENCE states that a shot missed entirely and hit a manhole cover and was retrieved from the grass - ignored The EVIDENCE contradicts when the LAST SHOT was taken... with a definitive statement in CE875 putting this last shot EXACTLY where the FBI puts it in this model This last shot - last chance before the Trade Mart team got all the action - could very well have been from the WEST windows... There has been discussion that the man in the white T in Dillard in the SW window was LEE, the man walking past Mrs Reid, and in my opinion the one who gets into the Rambler... If a shot really was fired at that point, 30 odd feet down the road... one begins to see how and why the FBI and WCR stopped their analysis at z334... If we could ascertain

And just a quick note saying that I do not endorse RW as the BYP stand-in... I am aware of others who could have been involved with the BYP... yet it is hard to dismiss RW and Stovall having the 3rd pose... which matches the ghost cut-out and FBI/DPD re-enactments... ... even though the photo (and therefore THAT pose) does not turn up for years and years.... Why aren't the ghost and reenactments of one of the two photos Rose/Stovall found and submitted as evidence? Didn't 133-C only come into awareness just before the HSCA? btw - the only microscopic analysis was of the line across the chin... I am not aware of analysis on other areas of the photo to detect addtional "pastes".

Thanks Ken... yet what really chaps me is that the supposed HOLLYWOOD 7 has amazing versions of these frames and the expertise to back the obvious conclusion.. Why are we not seeing this most obvious of alterations in poster size at a press conference with Stone, and any and all others who can lend credibility to it??? What are "they" waiting for? DJ

Hey there Blair... Hopefully you are alerted to this post http://www.baylor.edu/lib/poage/shaw/index.php?id=85336 http://www.baylor.edu/content/imglib/1/5/4/3/154358.jpg

Good find, David. The photo on the right looks like it may have been taken a few feet West of Moorman's position. Gives an excellent illustration of the tree line against the TSBD. I am curious who took it and what day they snapped the photo. Regarding the Light pole, if you look at the uncropped Moorman photo, there is something that resembles the light pole near the right side of the photo. Thanks Richard - I see that now... Amazing how the angles on things change so much about their perceived appearance and location. That has to be one of the worst polaroid photos ever taken! I find it nearly impossible to believe THAT was how it came out. DJ btw - the few photos I have of the flowers in the middle grass area do not tell me where I got them, sadly.

Andric... It's right there, under the magic marker square that was painted in to cover the wound... prettu amazing how we see what appears to be straight lines across the top and down each side of that black square... Tell you what Andric... how about you proving where 0183 was from about 9pm friday until Stolley picks up a film cannister with who knows what inside... or explaining the Phillips memo which contradicts the SS and Zapruder as to where copies were... How about the 16mm version Homer et al works on after it is brought in on Sunday... versus the 8mm - different briefing boards - film from Sat night that has disappeared to history? Or the movement of JFK's head between 157 and 158... Greer between 302 and 303... the lack of 0183 on this "authentic, original film" What we SEE is not the only evidence - but here you go as you ask... no matter what the exposure or contrast, the same dark areas on Jackie or JC do not result in what looks like a black square hovering over the head... YES the generation and version are not top quality... if you can find a version of the frame where this does not appear, please post.... Thanks btw - in many of the frames between 320 and 360 we can see the effect on the rest of the head... yet I think this image tells all that we need about the authenticity of the zfilm.... the frames that had to be left in were still not acceptable... so some were fixed...

Thanks Robert... You may find what you seek under "REPORTS TO CURRY" in boxes 2 and 5... the ones in box 14 are regarding the murder of OSWALD... and on reports titled "Report on Officer's Duties"... most are in Box 3. Hope it helps DJ (but they are not from the 22 or 23... they were submitted later in Dec, after they all got their stories straight... 03 03 002 Report On Officer's Duties date unknown E. R. Beck Original Report on officer's duties in regards to the President's murder

https://harveyandlee.net/~harveyan/Unraveling/Unravels.htm This will give you some of the basics... John goes much farther than that lost soul Larry Dunkel.... the key remains the manner in which the DPD and FBI organzied the evidence... the W-2's that were returned by the FBI was never sent to the FBI or in the possession of the DPD "Among the additional items inventoried and photographed were W-2 forms from Dolly Shoe (1955), Tujague's (1955/56), JR Michaels (1956) and the Pfisterer Dental Lab (1956). But not one of these W-2 forms has the initials of a Dallas Police officer. None of these W-2 forms are on the DPD handwritten lists. None of these W-2 forms are on the lists typed at DPD headquarters (Stovall A & B, Turner 1). And none of these W-2 forms appear in photographs of Oswald's possessions spread out on the floor of the Dallas Police Department on November 23. But all of these W-2 forms have the initials of FBI Lab Technician Robert Frazier (FBI headquarters, Washington, DC). The evidence clearly suggests that these W-2 forms were created, initialed by Frazier, and added to Oswald's possessions while in FBI custody between November 23-26. In fact over 200 items of evidence were added to Oswald's possessions while in FBI custody. The W-2 forms were not found by the Dallas Police. They were created in Washington, DC for the purpose of altering the dates of Oswald's employment in the mid-1950s. It is pretty hard to imagine that a 16 or 17 year old teenager would keep 1955 and 1956 W-2 forms during his 3 years in the Marine Corps, 2-1/2 years in the Soviet Union, and year and a half moving from Dallas to New Orleans and back to Dallas. Why would Oswald keep 8-year-old W-2 forms and yet not keep W-2 forms, copies of tax returns, or any employment information from his work in 1962 and 1963?" Other than 61-62 LHO had earnings in 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959 (he earns Marine Pay until Sep), 1960-June 1962...(Russia) July 1962-Nov 1963 (Reilly, Jaggars, Welding, TSBD) Yet the earnings for Marina's SS benefit stops at his return from USSR... only the earning of HARVEY OSWALD are ever used... John asks: "The amount shown under the heading "Total Earnings" is, according to the Social Security Administration, Oswald's total earnings from 1951 (First Base Yr. or Starting Date) through 1963 (Last Base Yr. or Closing Date). Oswald's SSA records were safely tucked away in their files for up to eight years prior to November 22, 1963. Yet within two months following the assassination the SSA failed to include any of Oswald's pre-1962 earnings from his employment at Dolly Shoe (1955), Tujague's (1955-56), J.R. Michaels (1956) and the Pfisterer Dental Lab (1957-58) in the Determination of Award given to Marina Oswald in 1964. Why?" Here I do not agree as much - Logic tells me that only the wages OSWALD EARNED while he was married to Marina would count toward her award, not earnings prior.... for HIS award I can see using ALL his earnings. So if that be the case, the SSA ignoring anything pre Marina makes sense. Not sure why 1951 is the base year, an 11-12 year old wouldn't earn too much.... yet the real problem remains regarding the earlier W-2's and the lack of a Chain of possession until it hits the FBI Lab and RF... just like CE399.

I have the index in a spreadsheet and checked for any type of affidavit... unless they are in another batch of reports, there are no DPD affidavits other than what are listed.... Baker, Weitzman - both affidavits contradicted the official story as well as their testimony... Curious - where/how did you find the 17 Sheriff reports? thanks DOC_DATE PRIMAUTH QUALITY 11/22/63 Barbara Jeanette Davis Original Signed 11/22/63 Billy Nolan Lovelady Original Signed 11/23/63 Bonnie Ray Williams Original Signed 11/22/63 Buell Wesley Frazier Original Signed 11/22/63 Buell Wesley Frazier Original Signed 11/22/63 Cecil J. McWatters Original 11/22/63 Cecil J. McWatters Original Signed 11/22/63 Charles D. Givens Original Signed 11/22/63 Danny Garcia Arce Original Signed 11/22/63 George Jefferson Applin, Jr. Original Signed 11/23/63 Gladys Shastid Original Signed 11/22/63 Helen Markham Original Signed 11/22/63 Jack E. Dougherty Original Signed 11/23/63 James Earl Jarman, Jr. Original Signed 11/23/63 James Richard Worrell, Jr. Original Signed 11/22/63 Lee E. Bowers Original Signed 11/22/63 Linnie Mae Randle Original Signed 11/22/63 M. L. Baker Original 11/22/63 Marina Oswald Original Signed 11/23/63 Mary E. Bledsoe Original Signed 11/23/63 Michael Paine Original Signed 11/23/63 Mrs. R. A. Reid Original Signed 11/22/63 Roy S. Truly Original 11/23/63 Roy S. Truly Original Signed 11/22/63 Ruth Hyde Paine Original Signed 11/22/63 Sam Guinyard Original Signed 11/23/63 Seymour Weitzman Original 11/23/63 Seymour Weitzman Original 11/22/63 Ted Callaway Original Signed 11/22/63 Virginia Davis Original 11/22/63 Virginia Davis Original Signed 11/23/63 W. W. Scoggins Original Signed 11/22/63 William H. Shelley Original 11/22/63 William H. Shelley Original 11/22/63 William H. Shelley Original Signed 11/23/63 William Wayne Whaley Original Signed Grand Count 36 And from the witness listing those wither in the Sheriff Depart or DPD: Baker, Marrion WC Testimony, 11/22/63 Affidavit, 8/11/64 Affidavit Member, Dallas Police Department. Witness at assassination scene. Curry, Jesse Edward WC Testimony 1, 2, 3, 8/10/64 Affidavit Chief, Dallas Police Department. Day, J.C. WC Testimony 1, 5/7/64 and 6/23/64 Affidavits Lieutenant, Dallas Police Department. Dhority, C. N. WC Testimony, 5/12/64 Affidavit Member, Dallas Police Department. Fritz, John Will WC Testimony 1, 2, Affidavit Captain, Dallas Police Department Martello, Francis L. WC Testimony, Affidavit Lieutenant, New Orleans Police Department.

I tried to find photos of those trees specifically and finally have... from the next day or two... The polaroid lens was maybe 114mm (most seemed to be) with a 1/1200 sec shutter speed - so that's why everything is in "focus" yet the 'Land Camera 80' as her camera is described as, was really a model 800 it appears. and why it appears we are closer to the building than she was.... The tree limbs match while the image on the right was probably taken with a standard 35mm... - yet, where is the light pole in Moorman?

We ought to rememebr that M3 was taken in the street, closer to the TSBD, and therefore the trees would indeed appear much taller than from other angles. Some things of concern: - How, with a polaroid, is the motorcycle and background in focus as the motorcycles is moving and would be blurred if she was not panning, or the background should be very blurry... - Why is the quality so much worse than the other Moorman photos?

I also wanted to see about the 3 wise men's 5th floor WEST windows... which are now open at 12:40.... along with the the 6th fllor WEST end windows...

By design Paul, by design... The workings and imagination required to create and execute a plan of this nature are far beyond that which the mere mortal understands. It is literally not fair to ask that the plan make sense, be logical, or not have included within the planning the cover-up itself. Altering the dead body of the president to CREATE history... WHO would believe it? Can we believe the 75" (6'3") of film (out of 33 feet) surrounded by splices and black film with no origin... with no identifying marks... and a very dubious chain of possession... - A KNOWN copy to the Secret Service that night... and the mention of at least one extra copy either with Zapruder or the SS - Virtually NO RECORD of those who saw the film that weekend with regards to what they saw... specifically... (Dino claims the headshot and result he saw was much longer than the few frames in the existing film) but there are no good interviews where the question was asked of the KODAK personnel, the JAMIESON personnel, or anyone else who may have seen the film prior to Sat night.) I did a little research into what consitutes "knowledge" of something - in virtually all cases, the WRITTEN WORD is usually accepted as KNOWLEDGE based on Plato's principles: "it must be justified, true, and believed" We all know in 1964 the WCR was "justified" and was "believed"... and by default accepted as TRUTH and in turn constituting KNOWLEDGE of the assassination. Undoing a supported and accepted TRUTH, especially the governement's, has always been virtually impossible. We have 50 years and over 2/3 of the people STILL not believing the WCR is TRUTH... yet since there is no WRITTEN TEXT to takes its place... KNOWLEDGE does not change... the complexities of undoing the TRUTH is simply too much for the common person to understand, nor is there the desire to spend the time and energy to reach a place where it could be understood... This remains one of the biggest and boldest lies in the history of man.... Lies so big that exposing them only makes the task MORE difficult... as one lie reveals 100 that require just as much understanding to even percievce them, let alone explain and understand them. --- Regarding WHO Paul... WHO saw fit to enlist the help of Gen Cabell from the CIA in mid 1960 to determine whether a textile asset-stripping conglomerate should buy a failing helicopter company. This little conglomerate, soon to be connected with the defense industry, is backed by an interesting group of companies and people including Sun Assurance of London, Sun Life of Canada, the Bank of Boston, Prudential, Hancock Life, the law form of Cravath, Swaine and Moore among others and the financial empires of Rothschild, Astor and Morgan.... WHO ordered the admirals to play games with the arrival of the two caskets? WHO can get the Surgeon General of the Navy, the ranking rear admiral of Bethesda and the POTUS' physician to hide the fact JFK was at the morgue over an hour before they said he was? WHY does HOOVER send men to STRIPLING JHS in Ft Worth on Sat 11/23 at 7am to retrieve the 7 year old records of a boy who supposedly never attended there? This is less than 8 hours since Oswald was even CHARGED with the crime. ---- The CIA, again imo, was just as much a scap goat as Oswald, the SS and the FBI... they were/are the first line of defense and still, to this day, maintain camouflage for the WHO that benefitted most and run things in this world. IMO we know HOW... the Historical record was falsified to contain KNOWLEDGE which although not believed, has been accepted as the truth with nothing of substance yet to take its place Why? That is for each of us to reconcile... at the core - he was the greatest threat to the Status Quo that had ever come along... a Status quo extending back hundreds and hundreds of years. my .02 Once understood - there is simply no way that anything accurately reflecting what occurred that day, remains... other than the poorly refuted witness testimony. The devil is indeed in the details Paul... and the details of the Zfilm scream alteration.