David Josephs

The Zapruder film alteration theory is one unintended casualty in this thread. Mr. Ward already stated that his views on film alteration have "evolved", when confronted about the fact that McClelland credits the film for his transformation from a "lone nut" theory supporter to a conspiracy theorist. Prudhomme needs some time to make the case for alteration without undermining McClelland's credibility. Please give him time. 1. The ONLY thing the film and autopsy evidence reveals is a conspiracy to cover-up the actual wounds and results... there is NOTHING of evidentiary value in determining what occurred in DP on those films that can be stated definitively. 2. n/a 3. Got to leave that to Robert... didn't realize he thought there was only one shooter - is that actually the case? 4. Because he was shot in the right temple... it's the ONLY thing that explains the trail of particles left which could not be removed by HUMES before 8pm If you can Pat - please explain how either the WCR or HSCA entry points leaves a trail of particles ABOVE the path of the bullet when - if shot from the front and hitting the right temple you have a perfectly logicaly explanation for them.. Thanks Pat DJ Do you completely discount Hill and Kellerman's testimony along with Bowron and everyone else at Parkland who only see a large hole at the back of his head? And maybe also explain how both the very TOP and very BOTTOm of the brain is virtually surgically cut by this ONE bullet leaving debris as far from the base of the brain as is possible..

The Zapruder film alteration theory is one unintended casualty in this thread. Mr. Ward already stated that his views on film alteration have "evolved", when confronted about the fact that McClelland credits the film for his transformation from a "lone nut" theory supporter to a conspiracy theorist. Prudhomme needs some time to make the case for alteration without undermining McClelland's credibility. Please give him time. Perhaps you would like to show me, in Dr. Clark's WC Testimony, where Dr. Clark testifies that the large, gaping wound he saw in JFK's head (tangential or exit or otherwise) was anywhere but the right rear of JFK's head. Pat Speer seems unwilling or incapable of performing this simple task. Perhaps you can do this for me? Dr. CLARK - The President was lying on his back on the emergency cart. Dr. Perry was performing a tracheotomy. There were chest tubes being inserted. Dr. Jenkins was assisting the President's respirations through a tube in his trachea. Dr. Jones and Dr. Carrico were administering fluids and blood intravenously. The President was making a few spasmodic respiratory efforts. I assisted. in withdrawing the endotracheal tube from the throat as Dr. Perry was then ready to insert the tracheotomy tube . I then examined the President briefly. My findings showed his pupils were widely dilated, did not react to light, and his eyes were deviated outward with a slight skew deviation. I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage, the floor, and the clothing of some of the people present. I would estimate 1,500 cc. of blood being present. <snip> Dr. CLARK - All right. Let me check what I remember Dr. Perry said at the first press conference. He was asked if the neck wound could be a wound of entrance or appeared to be a wound of exit, and Dr. Perry said something like "possibly or conceivably," or something of this sort. Mr. SPECTER - And, did he elaborate as to how that projectory would have been possible in that press conference? Dr. CLARK - He did not elaborate on this. One of the reporters with gestures indicated the direction that such a bullet would have to take, and Dr. Perry quite obviously had to agree that this is the way it had to go to get from there to the top of his head. This comment has to do with the bullet ENTERING the throat and EXITING out the back/top of the head... It was a REPORTER'S question on what MIGHT have happened... Since nothing was done to examine the neck or back wounds it is indeed very possible that the throat wound along with the right temple shot - but that it was from the throat wound that the lower back of JFK's head is blown out. Yet good old Arlen wants to make sure it's in the record... the word "TOP" appears only twice, once here when describing the course of the throat shot FROM THE FRONT and the other is this: Mr. SPECTER - Now, you described the massive wound at the top of the President's head, with the brain protruding; did you observe any other hole or wound on the President's head? Dr. CLARK - No, sir; I did not. No sir, he did NOT say anything about the TOP of the head... and when it comes right down to it... who else really matters? who else was close enough to the head wound in DALLAS and saw it clearly who says it was at the TOP of the head Hill? Bowron? McClelland? PAT - is there anyone anywhere from Dallas who testifies to ANYTHING resembling the forged lateral xray? ie "I saw the entire top, front of his skull open up" If you were to read the autopsy results - again - we find Humes describing the complete laceration of the TOP fo the brain matter attached to the TOP of the skull along with the laceration of an area just above th base of the brain stem and top of the spinal column... in other words this one bullet supposedly created all the correct incisions for a craniotomy... destroying most of the RIGHT hemisphere while completely removing the connecting tissue to the skull on the ENTIRE left side, top and base of the brain... now THAT's a magfic bullet! Clearly visible in the above described large skull defect and exuding from it is lacerated brain tissue which on close inspection proves to represent the major portion of the right cerebral hemisphere. At this point it is noted that the falx cerebri is extensively lacerated with disruption of the superior saggital sinus In addition, there is a laceration of the corpus callosum extending from the genu to the tail. Exposed in this latter laceration are the interiors of the right lateral and third ventricles. Intersting that Boswell put NOTHING on the frontal view of the Face on the Descriptive Sheet... there is simply no way that what Humes/Boswell describes is the condition of JFK at PARKLAND... The TOP of the head may have ultimately been removed, but not by the shots in DP, but at the hands of HUMES in Bethesda. Mr. SPECTER. I would like to develop your understanding and your observations of the four wounds on President Kennedy. Mr. KELLERMAN. OK. This all transpired in the morgue of the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, sir. He had a large wound this size. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating a circle with your finger of the diameter of 5 inches; would that be approximately correct? Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, circular; yes, on this part of the head. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating the rear portion of the head. Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. More to the right side of the head? Mr. KELLERMAN. Right. This was removed. Mr. SPECTER. When you say, "This was removed," what do you mean by this? Mr. KELLERMAN. The skull part was removed. Mr. SPECTER. All right.

Interesting you should state this Andric... the FBI was notorious for creating STRAW MAN docs from the evidence gathered.... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=329093 This is the UNSIGNED UNCORRORATED report of the FBI interview with Bonnie Ray Williams stating he was on the 6th floor from 12:00 to 12:03. Mr. WILLIAMS. It was after I had left the sixth floor, after I had eaten the chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was. Mr. BALL. Approximately what time was it? Mr. WILLIAMS. Approximately 12:20, maybe. Mr. BALL. Well, now, when you talked to the FBI on the 23d day of November, you said that you went up to the sixth floor about 12 noon with your lunch, and you stayed only about 3 minutes, and seeing no one you came down to the fifth floor, using the stairs at the west end of the building. Now, do you think you stayed longer than 3 minutes up there? Mr. WILLIAMS. I am sure I stayed longer than 3 minutes. Mr. BALL. Do you remember telling the FBI you only stayed 3 minutes up there? Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not remember telling them I only stayed 3 minutes. Mr. BALL. And then on this 14th of January 1964, when you talked to Carter and Griffin, they reported that you told them you went down to the fifth floor around 12:05 p.m., and that around 12:30 p.m. you were watching the Presidential parade. Now, do you remember telling them you went down there about 12:05 p.m.? Mr. WILLIAMS. I remember telling the fellows that--they asked me first, they said, "How long did it take you to finish the sandwich?" I said, "Maybe 5 to 10 minutes, maybe 15 minutes." Just like I said here. I don't remember saying for a definite answer that it was 5 minutes. Whereas in reverse, we have the FBI report of McWatters stating that BELIEVES the man he picked up around Poydras/Elm takes the bus to "south of Saner Ave in Oak Cliff" http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=351 "SOUTH OF SANER" is at least 3 miles south of 10th and Patton and 4 miles south of Oswald's room... Mr. McWATTERS - Between Poydras and Lamar, in other words, because I stayed stopped there for, I guess oh, 3 or 4 minutes anyway before I made any progress at that one stop right there and that is where the gentleman got off the bus. In fact, I was talking to the man, the man that come out of the car; in other words, he just stepped up in the door of the bus, and was telling me that what he had heard over his radio and that is when the lady who was standing there decided she would walk and when the other gentleman decided he would also get off at that point. I am curious though... WHAT do you think changes in this case if everyone who says the BACK of the head COULD have meant the TOP, the RIGHT REAR, the TOP RIGHT or any other such place Pat would like it to mean? Are we back at discussion whether the BETHESDA wounds were the same as the PARKLAND wounds - or what? Thanks DJ

Yes Robert... I believe he says "IN" an accident.... yet the only other DPD sent to OAK CLIFF was Nelson... and he had disobeyed the order and returned to ELM/HOUSTON without a words notice. He is then ordered to 4340 W. Davis Street at 1:19, yet there are already a number of DPD cars in the OAK CLIFF area... and 4340 is EAST, as far east ast anyone seems to be going that day... So WHY send him from ELM/Houston all the way out there unless Dispatch does not hear where he is and sends him anyway?? 1:11 Dispatcher Signal 7, 817 West Davis. 1:11 (Accident) 1:11 91 (Ptm. W.D. Mentzel and Ptm. J.W. Courson) 817 West Davis? This accident is 4 miles WEST of 4340 on W. Davis... and now we add Mentzel and Courson to the list. ================ Malcolm: 1 - Unless OSWALD was indeed LEE and not HARVEY... since LEE, Ruby and Tippit were known to have been together... having LEE take care of Tippit (one of the few who was aware of H&L) and lead the chase to the Texas Theater makes a lot of sense. IMO LEE is walking back from Ruby's place and down a street that TIPPIT had been seen many times before for some reason. While Markham claims this person walked across PATTON going EAST in the same direction as the police car that soon followed... Scoogins on the other hand sees the police car and then sees it stop by someone heading WEST on 10th. Is it really probable that Scoggins misses seeing OSWALD walk right past his car just seconds before Tippit arrives from the EAST?? Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I first seen the police car cruising east. Mr. BELIN. About how fast was it cruising? Mr. SCOGGINS. Not more than 10 or 12 miles a hour, I would say. Mr. BELIN. It was going east on what street? Mr. SCOGGINS. On Tenth. Mr. BELIN. All right. Did you see the police car go across right in front of yours? Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he went right down the street. He come from the west, going east On east Tenth. Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see? Mr. SCOGGINS. I noticed he stopped down there, and I wasn't paying too much attention to the man, you see, just used to see him every day, but then I kind of looked down the street, saw this, someone, that looked to me like he was going west, now, I couldn't exactly say whether he was going west or was in the process of turning around, but he was facing west when I saw him So Scoggins tells us he sees TIPPIT every day... interesting. do we have any more info about Scoggins' familiarity with Tippit and that particular area...? Maybe the Gentleman's Club ?? 2 - No, IMO HARVEY was taken to the Theater by the same car that honked and was at the theater before 1:10. HARVEY proceeds to move from seat to seat apparently in search of someone. 3 - WESTBROOK - if the analysis is correct - MUST have the wallet with him when he arrives at the scene... Not a soul sees this wallet next to Tippit while he's there or after he is taken away... this realization is terribly important.... it establishes fore knowledge of Oswald, the need to connect Hidell with Oswald with Tippit with the rifle.... (not a single question is asked of Oswald about the Tippit killing other than "did you do it?" WHY is he even walking there given the information in reports by both Kelley and Fritz about OSWALD claiming to have taken a BUS to his ROOM and a BUS to the THEATER... Does the following interrogation notes not just SCREAM set-up after the fact? Fritz is literally quoting Oswald - in order to establish that his story changed.... Kelly corroborates as expected. yet are we seeing a problem here with the times and date that needs correcting... Bookout's report (CE1988) also states that OSWALD said he took a bus to his residence... and remember the cabby's name mix-up at the start... Whaley's testimony is completely full of it... He tells us 15 times in his first appearance that he went to NECHES and N. BECKLEY.. (Which does not exist) and that he let his fare out at 500 N. Beckley Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that is not what I said, but that is the reason I didn't call one at the time and I asked him where he wanted to go. And he said, "500 North Beckley." Well, I started up, I started to that address, and the police cars, the sirens was going, running crisscrossing everywhere, just a big uproar in that end of town and I said, "What the hell. I wonder what the hell is the uproar?" And he never said anything. So I figured he was one of these people that don't like to talk so I never said any more to him. But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there. He gave me a dollar bill, the trip was 95 cents. He gave me a dollar bill and didn't say anything, just got out and closed the door and walked around the front of the cab over to the other side of the street. Of course, traffic was moving through there and I put it in gear and moved on, that is the last I saw of him. Mr. BALL. When you parked your car you parked on what street? Mr. WHALEY. I wasn't parked, I was pulled to the curb on Neches and North Beckley. Mr. BALL. Neches, corner of Neches and North Beckley? Mr. WHALEY. Which is the 500 block. Mr. BELIN. I will try to refresh your memory here. When did you come to Washington, approximately? Mr. WHALEY. Well, it's been about 2 or 3 weeks ago, sir. I don't remember the exact date. Mr. BELIN. You testified before the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy in Washington, did you not? Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. "Traveled Zangs to Beckley and turned left and traveled on Beckley until I reached the 500 block of North Beckley. When I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped." Now is that what you told them on that day? Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is what I told them on that day. Mr. BELIN. Well, was that the fact that you drove until you reached the 500 block, or not? Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, I didn't drive until I reached the 500 block. I drove until I reached Beckley and Neely. If you would be in my place when they took me down there, when they had to force their way through the reporters to get me in the office, they wrote that up, and I signed it, because I told them that the man said he wanted to go to the 500 block of North Beckley. Mr. BELIN. All right. Now in here it says, "The No. 3 man who I now know is Lee Harvey Oswald was the man who I carried from the Greyhound Bus Station* * *" Was this the No. 3 or the No. 2 man? Mr. WHALEY. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see the lineup. I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon. While Tippit's actions that day are indeed peculiar and important... I believe what he did in the 2-3 weeks prior is even more important in establishing the connections. I also believe that Roberts is not truthful when describing his being in a jacket when he leaves after changing his clothes... Repeatedly we have the interrogation notes talk about the changing of his clothes but NEVER is there mention of his wearing a jacket, or the discarding of said jacket.... Which, in turn, leads us back to WESTBROOK who is credited with finding the Jacket... yet cannot remember the name of the officer who pointed the jacket out to him, nor do his initials appear on the jacket.... Westbrook (Hill and Sawyer) are seemingly ALWAYS in the right places at the right time to find evidence to incriminate Oswald....

Are we quite sure this 2nd DPD member was not NELSON in car 87 who decided to go to ELM/HOUSTON instead of where he was assigned? Here are the only references to an accident occurring. West Davis and 5700 Live Oak are about 8 miles apart in very different areas of Dallas... Stanglin ?? 1:11 Dispatcher: Signal 7, 817 West Davis. 1:11 (Accident) 1:11 45 (Ptm. N.L. Stanglin): There's a minor accident in the 5700 block Live Oak. Do you want me to stay here or answer my call? 1:12 Dispatcher: 45, Signal 9, manager's office, 4916 Live Oak. 1:12. (Theft) 1:15 Dispatcher: Handle the accident. Disregard Live Oak. 1:15

I've always wondered: Oswald was arrested at 1:40pm, his arrest warrent states he is the murderer of President Kennedy and Officer Tippit. Between 1:40pm and 11:26pm when he is finally and supposedly formally charged with JFK's murder (although there is quite a bit of confusion regarding his "in-and-out" of the cell at 1:30 am for his arraignment, 2 hours after booking) The TIPPIT complaint is signed at 7:05 and he is arrainged at 7:10 for TIPPIT murder... Not a single question appears to have been asked about the TIPPIT case to this point... Is there a single evidenciary question asked about the Tippit murder asked between 1:40pm and 1:30am? It does not appear they cared much about asking or accusing him of the Tippit murder... Kelley: I asked him if he viewed the parade and he said he had not. I then asked him If he had shot the President and he said he had wt. I asked him if he had shot Governor Connally and he said he had not. He did not intend to answer further questions without counsel and that If he could not get Abt, then he would hope that the Civil Liberties Union would give him an attorney to represent him. At that point Captain Fritz terminated the interview at about 11:30 A.M.. 1-23-63.

Simply amazing that anyone can make a case for the people within 0-3 feet of JFK that day (both carrying him from limo to ER and standing at the table - these are Actual ER DOCTORS and NURSES who have actually dealt with gunshot wounds stating this - as opposed to a couple desk jockies with their bosses' bosses' boss standing over them telling them what to do, say, cut, look at, NOT cut, NOT to move or touch.....) And then to use "cognitive psychology" What exactly is the POINT here ? To use ANYTHING we can find to claim those that saw what they saw in DALLAS, were wrong? That their drawings are wrong Their statements are wrong Their photos are wrong.... Mrs Bowron met JFK at the limo and helped him onto the stretcher... His head was NOT laying on a table, She was Not looking at him upside down Same thing with CLINT HILL... Both are witnesses to JFK's wounds and have nothing at all to do with "cognitive psychology" or him laying on an ER table... Yet, I guess if one can use forged and fraudulent physical evidence to come to ironclad conclusions rather than the corroborated recollection of those who actually came in contact with the man at the time... you too can have your own chapter in the WCR charade. For someone who has done the JFK community so well over the years - to have this discussion over the PARKLAND people being wrong about the headwound seems at least to me as you taking 10 years and 20 steps off your analysis. Pat - so Bowron and Hill were also wrong? The NURSE does not know the difference between the BACK and TOP of the head ??? and the SS agent has no clue either. You next going to prove how CE339 exited JFK's throat and got to Rowley's office? Clint Hill sees JFK laying with the BACK AND RIGHT SIDE OF HIS HEAD FACING HIM DIRECTLY Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital? Mr. HILL. The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the rear seat of the car. His brain was exposed. There was blood and bits of brain all over the entire rear portion of the car. Mrs. Kennedy was completely covered with blood. There was so much blood you could not tell if there had been any other wound or not, except for the one large gaping wound in the right rear portion of the head. Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe as specifically as you can the head wound which you have already mentioned briefly? Dr. CARRICO - Sure.This was a 5- by 7 1-cm (sic) defect in the posterior skull, the occipital region. There was an absence of the calvarium or skull in this area, with shredded tissue, brain tissue present and initially considerable slow oozing. Then after we established some circulation there was more profuse bleeding from this wound. Mr. SPECTER - Was any other wound observed on the head in addition to this large opening where the skull was absent? Dr. CARRICO - No other wound on the head.

Pat, why not just use the coat, jacket and backwound rather than a drawing? and the facts offered.... 20 degree downward angle at the point of contact, 11 degree upward movement of the bullet, 25 degree downward movement thru JC. Except we are talking about the headwound and what appears to be you desire to assist Bethesda and the ONI prove THEY are correct about the wounds. JFK's head did not come apart in their hands like HUMES tells us... his condition was such that the ER staff attempted life saving procedures... if the wound was as it appeared at 8pm in Bethesda, what kind of sick sadist of a doctor preforms a tracheotomy on a man whose head is open as BOSWELL described? Whether in the rear, right rear, or just RIGHT, how do you explain the disconnection of the brain from the skull on the LEFT side of the entire skull... so much so that the brain literally FALLS out of the opening in the skull... Seems to me you nbeed to read the autopsy section of BEST EVIDENCE again Pat. What Humes describes and what PARKLAND saw are mutually exclusive

I find it unfathomably naive to conclude in the midst of the most glaring of evidence and CONTEXT, that LHO did ANYTHING alone. It was suggested by Ron Paul at the debates a few years ago that 911 was the result of 60 years of US Foreign Policy. JFK was intent on changing that policy and was deemed potentially successful, so he was "neutralized" There isn't a time in all of History when you can find WHITE MEN not raping any and all resources wherever they can. Where both sides are played against each other for the entertainment and profit of a few. The 50's administations created the 60's need to "Protect and expand" the MICC which as Ike said had only become the dominant political and economic power during his administration, while he watched helplessly and NIXON wrung his hands. I was raised by very intelligent people who taught me to question things, to not simply accept at face value. Maybe it's a JEWISH thing? Judaism is an ongoing logical conversation with G-d and one's faith. Nothing is taken as true until it can be referenced and agreed upon... as we see from the Talmud. To support the WCR and LHO as Lone Nut is to close one's eyes to the CONTEXT of the times... JFK was not the only person who was killed to further the MICC agenda... far from it. ---- On the tape, recorded in May of 1972, the president confided to two top aides that the Warren Commission pulled off "the greatest hoax that has ever been perpetuated." Unfortunately, he did not elaborate.. Just THINK of the reputation and activities of the man saying THAT and in 1972 no less!. Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Watergate, CREEP, MLK, RFK, etc, etc... That people with a brain in ther heads can look at history and not see what RICH WHITE MEN have done and continue to do is a head shaker for me... That anyone can believe these MEN simply stood by and watched JFK do his thing hoping some little man would take care of it for them is simply too difficult for me to understand DJ

You should provide the link to that article Vince... One of the very best - and opened the door to the SS for me at least.... Any thoughts on DILLION's involvement?

Kelley goes a step further to say OSWALD "says" he took the bus, via a transfer, all the way to the Texas Theater.. He then claims, after FRITZ mentions the cab, that Oswald changed his story.... https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=29105&relPageId=1

Fritz's interrogation notes suggest a different means of OSWALD getting to his room... "He told me he left by bus and rode to a stop near home and walked on to his house" Followed by a "QUOTE" from Oswald.... changing the previous answer to now include a cab ride... This is one of the few "QUOTES" attributed to OSWALD... This screams to me that Fritz simply wrote what needed to be written... If OSWALD really took a bus home, the BLEDSOE bus and WHALEY cab stories are fabricated (and to me proven by the description of the ARREST clothing rather than what he was wearing to work... The final line on this page reinforces that OSWALD changed his clothes when he got home.... one of the few constants in his "as told to" comments.

Or the piece BORING recants on the very next day after revealing it... the piece found in the SS follow-up car... that also disappears to History

Nice to see one for our side once in a while... Way to go Vince... Now, I'm sorry if I missed where you address this... your thoughts on DILLION leading the Treasury and the SS behavior. Thanks DJ

What are we missing here Pat ?? McClelland mistaken again in this photo along with everyone else? (yes, I know there are Bethesda witnesses in this mix... and THEY also place the wound in the same spot) Since the bones were hinged OUT, is it not conceivable that one or more of these bones would hinge UP requiring holding it down from the TOP of the head? One does not hold NOTHING over a hole in the skull... the only things left to HOLD on JFK's skull was the TOP/FRONT of the head.. the BACK was gone.... just not according to the autopsy report and xrays...

Pat... how about we take a second and look at the construction of this statement... 1 "there is no reason" 2 "to suspect" 3 "that any shots came from the front" Is this the same as saying "THERE WERE NO SHOTS FROM THE FRONT" of course not... he is discussing REASONS to SUSPECT... and covering his ass... according to the FBI/SS "reason" and "Suspicion" were not to be considered that afternoon... Pat - this doesn't scream "play along to get along" to you? Continues to blow me away that anyone would use the frightened, coerced testimony over their own common sense in order to prove something... McC and Huber put a nasty wound over the left eye.. two of the FOX photos put one over the right. and when I look at this drawing and hear people claim McClelland was ANYTHING BUT a "blow-out to the rear" witness.. I too have to shake my head... That you present this Pat as if there was no fear in these men's hearts... that they were so incredibly stupid as to not read the writing on the walls... as soon as the body was TAKEN I suppose you also think that whatever was happening to the Parkland staff was not discussed among them... That Todd's work on Perry was on an island. Pat - do you not see the "save my ass" changes to McClelland's story as just that? How do you view this drawing and still claim McC was NOT a BOH witness, regardless of what he needed to say afterward... This sounds more and more like a McAdams exhibit each time I read a new post of yours.... you going with the revised FORD PLACEMENT of the backwound too, since he MUST be right and everyone else wrong... just like this drawing - which matches the descrption of the wound by most everyone in DALLAS.. ???

I often wonder if the TV talking heads have looked at the evidence themselves, or are they just parroting the party line. Even if they had looked at the evidence, they may not feel free to comment on it. That would be straying off the reservation, which can damage or even end one's career. Hey there Ron, Of course they didn't look at the evidence - it takes YEARS to look at the evidence - which has always been my particular pet-peeve... the CT crowd is not unified behind a proof for the message. I say we can offer a simple picture worth a thousand words and an explanation which first makes the SBT impossible which in turn destroys the LONE NUT theory... Discussing Oswald on the 6th floor is yet another problem of awareness of the evidecnce that is very hard to sort out and present simply.

Agree with who Jim, Bugliosi? HERE is where it entered, the throat wound is 11 degrees HIGHER than the back wound. The alleged origin of said shot is 17 degrees above horozontal plus another 3 degress for the road's slope... Unless JFK is tying his shoes at the moment of this shot.. it is NOT POSSIBLE for a downward sloping shot to change direction given your explanation: "transversed mostly soft tissues" Nothing deflected this to change it's downward course... while the course thru JC is at an even HIGHER angle and is NOT traveling right-to-left (back to front) at the same angle as would connect JFK's wounds. Nothing in the SBT lines up Jim... the throat wound was ABOVE the shirt (meaning an even higher angle upward) and the last straw in your presentation is the Chain of Custody of CE399... maybe tell us who admits to taking THAT BULLET from Dallas to DC? As I see it, Rowley gets one bullet and provides another. According to the SS, Agent JOHNSON gives Frazier the bullet... not Rowley. (Rowley tells us the bullet he gets from Johnson is NOT CE399, Johnson says CE399 not fthe one he got from Wrights and so on....) whereas Todd confirms the bullet he gets FROM Rowley is CE399... and the ONLY initials are those that follow ROWLEY... How do you conclude a 5mm hole is a 6.5mm bullet's EXIT?

Here are the first pages after the "Especially printed for the friends of PETERSON" title page... I says "printed in 1964" and appears as if these WHITE pages were added after the book was already printed... Inside dust cover says this is the FIRST PUBLICATION IN AMERICA - also says it was printed in 19 different countries DJ

Somehow, I think they would have pinned it on Vallee.... Yet that is a wonderful point David.... I seem to remember the DPD picking some people up in the TM area... Larry Hancock talks of the DPD's main concern as being the Trade Mart demonstrators... Assets were maneuvered into place... somehow Oswald was not out on the street waving to JFK at the time.... You think Rose would have been as docile as Dr. Thomas T. Noguchi.... http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Robert_Kennedy_Assassination Freed's account in fact matches Robert Kennedy's autopsy report. Coroner Thomas Naguchi determined that RFK had been shot three times, all from the rear at a steep upward angle, with powder burns indicating that the fatal shot being fired from 1 or 2 inches away. and yet... Sirhan is somehow convicted... Again, D. Russell talks of these techniques in his articles and travels... THAT is one of the best brain twisters yet.... WHO was the backup Patsy?

I wasn't aware of this edition -- it seems very odd to me that Putnam would do this. Hi Marian... this is the version of the book I have.... I can scan the first few pages with the "message from Peterson" and post if anyone is interested yet there are indeed a handful of product pages at the beginning of the book that are just fluff. The irony of these two entities within the same pages if amazing. Did he ever do articles prior to this book on the culprits he identifies? Given his understanding of the matter one would think he had been looking into the growth of BIG business, the mafia, Mil Intel & the CIA in the 50's. Need to revisit the book... Cheers DJ

or this guy in BOND and what colorization SHOULD have been done - I may have missed a few leaves... but unless this film has a clear version of the red area, which is very possible... this wont amount to much. (a side note: Didn't Dick Russel write a few articles about the Phillipine angle to this assassination and that there were a number of armed assassins between DP and the TRADE Mart to make sure the job was done... I believe it's in his "On the Trail" book that reprints all his articles..)

In the spirit of fun... and a bit of skepticism... and to follow on what Blair commented upon - more Badgeman shadow and leaves and light HERE is the kneeling 2nd shooter on the GK.... from the infamous Midget assassination division of the CIA (MAD) cleverly disguised as part of a bush much like badgeman... when you see this area of moorman without the enhancement, you be able to make this "person" out... Hopefully this 2nd movie has more substance DJ

Agreed... And rather than reread the entire thread to find it... a Coke bottle was also found in that deep corner on/by the steps....yes? I personally think the Lunchroom scene with Baker/Truly never happened... and if it was not Oswald who they run into on the stairs - anyone care to venture a guess as to WHO that was and whether Baker's affidavit was also a PLANT given the generic description he gives... this "man who works here" as described by Truly could have been anyone except Dougherty coming down as he was a huge man. "...a white man. ...30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket" Mr. BELIN. Could you describe the man you saw in the window on the sixth floor? Mr. BRENNAN. To my best description, a man in his early thirties, fair complexion, slender but neat, neat slender, possibly 5-foot 10. Mr. BELIN. About what weight? Mr. BRENNAN. Oh, at--I calculated, I think, from 160 to 170 pounds. And then we have more of the most supressed testimony we have, that of Carolyn Arnold... her FBI statement and why she was never called to testify. One also has to decide if we believe OSWALD was actually on the bus or in Whaley's cab. John Armstrong who has held the bus transfer in his hands tells me it was indeed folded and creased given the struggle at the theater while that transfer was supposedly in his pocket... couple problems with that as well... This is the transfer as shown in the WCR... see any folds or creases? and then the book from which it supposedly came.... each of these BLANK TRANSFERS is stamped with the date it's good and the sequential number... the note says "receipt from the book of transfers..." so this receipt (complete with the "Shopper transfer" still attached suggests it came from the book and was removed at the staple.... AFTER the transfer supposedly given to Oswald. There are no clip-outs in this one so we know it was never used. While not conclusive it does suggest very highly that the transfer #4459 was created after the fact. (one is to remember that along with the transfer was an Aug 1960 American Bakeries pay voucher for the person who lived at NEELY at that time, found by the FBI AT NEELY and taken by them, yet finds it way into "evidence removed from Oswald's person at DPD" ) and whether this is the same person we now call Prayer Man... the man who walks past REID is only in a T-shirt Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether he had any shirt or jacket on over his T-shirt? Mrs. REID. He did not. He did not have any jacket on. Mr. BELIN - Could you describe the man that you saw running down toward the station wagon? Mr. CRAIG - Oh, he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair--you know, it was like it'd been blown--you know, he'd been in the wind or something--it was all wild-looking; had on--uh--blue trousers-- Mr. BELIN - What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light? Mr. CRAIG - No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a--uh--light tan shirt, as I remember it. Could someone please remind me which image supposedly has the OSWALD figure coming down from the TSBD and is under the sign... maybe I can relate the two visually DJ

Back to the topic (I needed to go back to post #1 to even figure out what we were talking about...) I tried a few things to bring out more of the detail... The pixelation makes this person look wider than he is He also appears to be wearing a short sleeve shirt, or something multi-colored folded up... DJ