David Josephs

Now we've all see this image... yet I had not read about how this man gets out to his perch and then back in again... It would seem he exited the 2nd floor window or may have come down from the third floor.... ? Any more info on Fire Escape Man? (FEM? lol) thanks DJ

You did excellent work on the enlargements... thanks.. kind of like the grief I got for this one: any help trying to find Norman, Williams and Jarman on the 5th floor... THEY don't seem to be there - do they?

Gil... I am doing my own work on this and have a question.... this does confirm that 3376 was not checked off... yet please help me understand The price extension on these cartons is $8.50..... the same as the CHANGED 1/12/62 order on 4/13/62 to M91/38 at $8.50ea Doesn't that suggest that this order posted below is for the 40.2 inch M91/38 $8.50 rifle....? even though the weigh does not add up... Could the 7.5lb weight per rifle have come from dividing the shipped weight by 100 or does each rifle actually weigh 7.5lbs? If so, there would be no weight left for the shipping cartons... So bottom line... with the $8.50 price, why are these not the longer rifle... and is that why 3376 was not checked? Thanks DJ Gil Wrote:

I believe you are correct. The info I posted was from an old History Channel program that was inaccurate. You'd think that if they were posting HISTORY, they'd at least do some research into it before broadcasting it. Thank You for the correction. At 7 seconds of that spliced together film.. the limo is stopped and people are right up beside JFK... he's shaking hands... You also notice how the SS follow-up car NEVER gets more than a few feet from the back of the limo... except in the few seconds just before z313.... just sayin Cheers Gil.... you've done such excellent work - thanks DJ

http://www.xat.org/xat/moneyhistory.html The story of the all out attempt to insure the USA had a central, privately owned bank, is the cornerstone to understanding the development of the USA as a country and world power... As we know, money today is not backed by hard currency.... and the Fed controls policy... Kennedy was trying to get out from under them... Cheers DJ

FWIW, I've searched my HSCA CD and am also unable to find any reference to Alba, a rivet machine, the sling and Oswald. I'd be interested why Alba told two different stories to two different investigations. Perhaps Mr. Purvis can enlighten us with a link to the HSCA testimony. Page (4) of the following link: http://contentdm.baylor.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/15poage-arm&CISOPTR=31618&REC=2 "One time OSWALD came to the garage with a rifle sling and asked if he could put a rivet in a piece of leather. ALBA did using a small anvil from his shop which he still has in his possession. The piece that he put in was a light tan color and slightly wider but not as thick as the original which according to him was black leather. OSWALD told him it was from his Italian rifle. Mr. ALBA then had a discussion with the two investigators concerning the worthiness of the Mannlicher Carcano rifle and how they were available in the New Orleans area for $9.95 at that time." Somewhat of an important recollection. Now, if everyone would excuse me? I have to go back to covering up the assassination on behalf of Lord Bertrand Russell and Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Bye Thanks Lee... I find the "Original Black Sling" mentioned to be interesting... For the rifle to have the Rope Sling in the BYP, it had to have been shipped without a sling or one was taken off... As we look at the ad... there is no sling included with the shipping of this rifle (same with clip and ammo - these are ordered seperately) yet also as curious is the REAR bottom sling mount... when we know it was on the side of the weapon in the TSBD... We going to chalk that up to clip art not being representative of the final product? So the rifle is shipped without a sling... so which black sling is Oswald referring to here? Thanks DJ David, No problem. The issue of the rifle ordered versus the one advertised versus the one allegedly dispatched versus the one found is a head-wrecker. I really don't know what to make of Alba. I know Jim D has already touched upon his credibility taking a nose dive and once again we have a witness where his testimony is all over the place. He gives some info that hints at a possible Oswald relationship with the FBI. He brings the Secret Service into the equation. He links Oswald to the gun magazines. He says he fixed the strap. But the summary says he didn't. He claims Oswald asked to borrow his car. If Alba is linked to the Lake Pontchartrain camps then who the hell knows where he fits into all this? Lee Well... starting to read Garrison's book... Crescent, next to Reilly's, next to 544 Camp, in the middle of intelligence in NOLA... You get the impression that Alba may have been one of the NO T-1 thru 6 informants? Sees him most every day... just a thought. btw... found a photo of a Carcano sling, black leather, like Alba says Oswald mentions.... nothing like this was found in any of the Oswald/Paine stuff... right?

I'd like to focus for a second on this reliance on the Baker/Truly "encounter" that I am not convinced actually happened. Baker, for months, does not say anything about a lunchroom, a door with a window, nothing... Truly's testimony is pretty direct. Mr. BELIN. I ask you to state, if you know what this is. Mr. TRULY. Yes. This is the vestibule, when you first come up the stairs on the second floor--this is what you will find right there. Mr. BELIN. Now, as you take a look at the picture Exhibit 498, is this a post immediately to the left side of the picture, to the extreme left of the picture? Mr. TRULY. No. Mr. BELIN. What is this to the extreme left? Is that the wall for the staircase? Mr. TRULY. Yes; there is an opening on this side, and the staircase is back over here. This picture is just part of this vestibule out here. Mr. BELIN. And what direction does the camera appear to be pointing, or what is shown there? Mr. TRULY. It appears to be pointing east. Mr. BELIN. And I see a door with a glass in it. Could you show where on this diagram Exhibit 497 this door with the glass is? Do you see a number with an arrow pointing to the door? Mr. TRULY. That is it. Mr. BELIN. What number is that? Mr. TRULY. It is number 23. Mr. BELIN. All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it. Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there? Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me. Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? Mr. TRULY. I came back to the second floor landing. Mr. BELIN. What did you see? Mr. TRULY. I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24. Mr. BELIN. All right. And I see that there appears to be on the second floor diagram, a room marked lunchroom. Mr. TRULY. That is right. Mr. BELIN. What did you do then? Mr. TRULY. I ran over and looked in this door No. 23. Mr. BELIN. Through the glass, or was the door open? Mr. TRULY. I don't know. I think I opened the door. I feel like I did. I don't remember. Mr. BELIN. It could have been open or it could have been closed, you do not remember? Mr. TRULY. The chances are it was closed. Mr. BELIN. You thought you opened it? Mr. TRULY. I think I opened it. I opened the door back and leaned in this way. Mr. BELIN. What did you see? Mr. TRULY. I saw the officer almost directly in the doorway of the lunch-room facing Lee Harvey Oswald. Mr. BELIN. And where was Lee Harvey Oswald at the time you saw him? Mr. TRULY. He was at the front of the lunchroom, not very far inside he was just inside the lunchroom door. Mr. BELIN. All right. Mr. TRULY. 2 or 3 feet, possibly. Mr. BELIN - And did you go all the way up to the top of the stairs right away? Mr. BAKER - No, sir; we didn't. Mr. BAKER - What happened? Mr. BAKER - As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there. Mr. DULLES - Where was he coming from, do you know? Mr. BAKER - No, sir. All I seen of him was a glimpse of him go away from me. Mr. BELIN - What did you do then? Mr. BAKER - I ran on over there Representative BOGGS -You mean where he was? Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. There is a door there with a glass, it seemed to me like about a 2 by 2, something like that, and then there is another door which is 6 foot on over there, and there is a hallway over there and a hallway entering into a lunchroom, and when I got to where I could. see him he was walking away from me about 20 feet away from me in the lunchroom. Mr. BELIN - What did you do? Mr. BAKER - I hollered at him at that time and said, "Come here." He turned and walked right straight back to me. Does that look likely to you? That Baker sees Oswald THRU the window... yet goes on THAT DAY to sign an AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT that has nothing at all to say about a lunchroom, door, window, vestibule or anything he testifies to later... This man HAD to pass Truly first, right... yet Truly says nothing of this man on the stairs... isn't this perjury for Baker? The WC does not even mention his affidavit. Yet this person as described sounds awfully like the man at the Tippit murder... BROWN jacket and all...

FWIW, I've searched my HSCA CD and am also unable to find any reference to Alba, a rivet machine, the sling and Oswald. I'd be interested why Alba told two different stories to two different investigations. Perhaps Mr. Purvis can enlighten us with a link to the HSCA testimony. Page (4) of the following link: http://contentdm.baylor.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/15poage-arm&CISOPTR=31618&REC=2 "One time OSWALD came to the garage with a rifle sling and asked if he could put a rivet in a piece of leather. ALBA did using a small anvil from his shop which he still has in his possession. The piece that he put in was a light tan color and slightly wider but not as thick as the original which according to him was black leather. OSWALD told him it was from his Italian rifle. Mr. ALBA then had a discussion with the two investigators concerning the worthiness of the Mannlicher Carcano rifle and how they were available in the New Orleans area for $9.95 at that time." Somewhat of an important recollection. Now, if everyone would excuse me? I have to go back to covering up the assassination on behalf of Lord Bertrand Russell and Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Bye Thanks Lee... I find the "Original Black Sling" mentioned to be interesting... For the rifle to have the Rope Sling in the BYP, it had to have been shipped without a sling or one was taken off... As we look at the ad... there is no sling included with the shipping of this rifle (same with clip and ammo - these are ordered seperately) yet also as curious is the REAR bottom sling mount... when we know it was on the side of the weapon in the TSBD... We going to chalk that up to clip art not being representative of the final product? So the rifle is shipped without a sling... so which black sling is Oswald referring to here? Thanks DJ

Thanks again Greg... seems NO 100-16601 comprised a whole bunch of interviews... what I found surprising was this http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_826.pdf report about Oswald in NO.... There are 6 different NO T-#'s for informants reporting on Oswald... SIX! How does that jive with the FBI not being interested in our boy Lee?? DJ Greg and DJ, thanks for staying connected to the forum. Your posts are always looked forward to by me. And Greg, a special thanks for the recent update on Jack. Thanks Michael... greatly appreaciated and the sentiment is equally returned.

Thanks again Greg... seems NO 100-16601 comprised a whole bunch of interviews... what I found surprising was this http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_826.pdf report about Oswald in NO.... There are 6 different NO T-#'s for informants reporting on Oswald... SIX! How does that jive with the FBI not being interested in our boy Lee?? DJ

Excellent... can you lead me to this report? Purvis seems to believe that he helped create this sling yet I find nothing top support that statement.... and if indeed it is the opposite... Tom has some 'splaining to do... DJ

David, Why do you have to bring the Lone Nutters and DVP into it? I mean, the strap is what it is, and if indeed it is a USAF pistol holster strap, what does that mean? I no longer think or care what Lone Nutters think and care about unless they interfere with my research. The strap is important to me because I think that if the rifle was used in the assassination, then perhaps the ammo came from the same source as the strap, and if we can identify the source of the strap, we can possibly identify the source of the ammo. BK Bill, If you're referring to the spent shells found on the 6th floor...the source of the ammo was Western Cartridge Company. It was purchased from them by the US Marine Corps in a batch of 400 THOUSAND in 1954. As for the strap, the FBI did an extensive search for its source to no avail. In fact, in their report (which I have here somewhere) they concluded that (get this) it might have actually been a guitar strap! I jest you not, that's what it says. I'll see if I can scan it and upload it later. Greg... pretty sure that Tom was right about what the strap was made FROM... just that I cannot find evidence where Alba helped with his rivot gun, or even says he did. Kinda of interesting though that Oswald would bo so cheap as to not buy a strap, ammo or a clip at the time of the purchase yet winds up using ROPE.. (same as the rope that wrapped the blanket I wonder??) practicing multiple times at multiple locations (again... that's a lot of ammo with no purchase record) and then at some point PAY for a new strap that cannot even be used to fire the rifle as configured... and what about the holster for the pistol... where exactly did that come from? Good to hear/see ya Greg.... hope all is well in your world Peace DJ

Maybe you are referring to this bullet lodged behind JFK's ear?

dup

Tom, Been looking thru the testimony and cannot find where anything was added to Alba's testimony for the HSCA... they simply reproduce the WCR testimony and there is no mention of the sling there. And I've looked elsewhere... can you link to Alba discussion the making of the new leather sling? Thanks DJ "Did Frazier ever say anything about this?" 1. Frazier stated that he received one virtually intact bullet and various other fragments of bullets. And, although I personally caught him in what appears as an attempt to misrepresent exactly where he got his spectrographic analysis information to which he testified, my latter experience in old age tells me that it just may have been one of those "memory" things. 2. ADRIAN ALBA: When one takes into consideration the fact that Adrian Alba was a charter member of the "MINUTEMEN", as well as the fact that he was arrested at a training camp which was also located on the north shores of Lake Ponchetrain, then one comes to understand exactly why he may want to suffer a memory lapse also. As I have indicated many times before, LHO/aka the "squirrell" was insuring that he left his false trail/scent at a wide variety of suspicious locations. Alba's later (HSCA) recollections in regards to the leather strap sling should have been pursued much farther by those who questioned him. Especially when one takes into consideration his prior "MINUTEMEN" record. Plus his direct-line family ties to a former aviator who just possibly would have worn a shoulder holster pistol. The "Alba Scam" on the part of LHO is little different than the other scams he was pulling in leaving his "scent" at a wide variety of pro as well as con locations. Certainly glad that I have not wasted that much cerebral capacity "chasing up an empty tree"!

Was wondering why Oswald did not create a Hidell DoD ID that already includes a picture as opposed to the SSS one that doesn't. And what is that stamp dated 10/23/63... where and when de he receive that? Thanks DJ

Altgens, in z345, is the photographer to the right, closest to the curb... he would not be reflected in the trunk until z349-z354.. And I do think we see his image move on the trunk as the limo passes... as a side note... I've always felt that on the best Zframes we could also see GK reflections... I just don't have those frames to examine... Cheers DJ

David, If you note the approximate rate that each object pans across the frames from right to left, Hill and Moorman appear to "move" across at a consistent rate during each. They appear to be moving out of frame from 300 to 301 to 302 to 303 to 304 at a consistent clip, IMO. If unaltered, why would that one single frame (303) show them to be so crisp? It was a duration of 1/18th of a second. It also looks as if z298 does the same thing... if the limo was going VERY slow... as I believe it was (less than 3mph) a slight hesitation in the panning could produce the frame we see... and in 298 I think we see the occupants of the limo blur slightly (I have a gif on the right .. ) btw - in the film you saw.. anything to add about Altgens, Jean and Mary? Was Altgens in frame at the time of the headshot? Thanks and no worries if you'd rather move on re: what you saw... DJ

Hi Greg... Always thought it was one or the other when panning? Either the background is blurry because the panning and object moving are in sync.. or the object moving is blurry and the background is clear, if the panning pauses just for a few frames.. You probably have a better frame than this... seems there is quite a lot of blur in total... so who knows what the camera was doing at that instant... and isn't Jean looking at her MC boyfriend? Yet that seems to contradict her testimony Mr. SPECTER - Start any place that you find most convenient and just tell me in your own way what happened. Mrs. HILL - Well, as they came toward us, we had been taking pictures with this Polaroid camera and since it was a Polaroid we knew we. had only one chance to get a picture, and at the time she had taken a picture just a few minutes before and I had grabbed it out of the camera and wrapped it and put it in my pocket. Just about that time he drew even with us. Mr. SPECTER - And when you say "he" you mean? Mrs. HILL - The President's car. We were standing on the curb and I jumped to the edge of the street and yelled, "Hey, we want to take your picture," to him and he was looking down in the seat---he and Mrs. Kennedy and their heads were turned toward the middle of the car looking down at something in the seat, which later turned out to be the roses, and I was so afraid he was going to look the other way because there were a lot of people across the street and we were, as far as I know, we were the only people down there in that area, and just as I yelled, "Hey," to him, he started to bring his head up to look at me and just as he did the shot rang out. Mary took the picture and fell on the ground and of course there were more shots. We do not see this happen in the Zfilm at all.... unless at 293 she yells yet immediatley she turns her head away from the limo...

We can easily see Jean's read coat enter and move across the limo's trunk from the Z angle... Yet for some reason I don't see the same movement as Altgens crosses the limo's trunk, and he was even closer to the curb than Jean.. Shouldn't we see his image move across the trunk as well? the fact is there was no blood on the trunk during Jean's trip across it... the trunk should have been covered in blood bythe time it reaches Altgens... unless it was already past and the z film was altered...

Hey there Chris... Now what about the idea of this earlier removal of frames and the movement UP the street some 30-40 feet of the action? The syncing of Zap to Nix to Muchmoore is reallt a much simpler process than initially thoughts... yes?

Bill... as I asked David... the question is not HOW (at least not in this thread)... the question is whether or not the claim that "syncing ALL THOSE FILMS would be impossible"...blah, blah is as big an overstatement as it appears. When in reality there is only the 2 to deal with... Zap doesn't cover the turn... so no syncing needed there and no other films show the limo before 133 up to 272 and Muchmore... 295 or so for Nix... IF these frames are removed anytime prior to 272, and numbered where z133 should have been z179... M01 = z272 & N01 = z295 Everything syncs up fine... So forgetting the process for a second, please address the concept. thanks DJ

perhaps you can tell us when you viewed the alleged in-camera Zapruder film original at NARA? Verifying no frames were or have been removed? You watch "altered film-video clips everyday. BTW, Any 'Hollyweird professional' optical film printing technician of the day (circa. 1963-64) could remove 36 frames from the Zapruder film and you'd be none-the-wiser. That's their job dude, alter, fix, mend, repair original film footage. In other words, bring location-studio footage in-tune with the script. Dig? I had hoped to hear from you David... To address a point, as long as Nix and Muchmore sync up after 272... there would be no other syncing issues... agree? And second, would removing these frames during the turn also result in the same thing? Since we dont have the turn in Zap to compare to Martin, Towner, etc... there are no sync issues and frame 133 is actually 177/8/9 or so... Thanks DH DJ

My opinion: In the resized Bell film, you can see a man with a rifle shooting. Next and to the back of him you see a spark. So there were at least 2 people shooting at the President from the Grassy Knoll and behind the picket fence. There may also be someone on the side of the Pergola filming -- it's subjective. I don't recall who brought the Bell film to our attention recently, but that's my view (no pun intended). I wonder if the conspirators filmed the Assassination from the South side also. Kathy C Hi Kathleen.. I've looked and looked and have not seen a "resized" Bell... and the Bell I do have shows the limo speeding away just after the shots... Do you have a link to this Bell study by any chance.. or frame grabs of what you are referring to? thanks DJ

There is only one known film to capture the limo between the end of Towner/Martin and the beginning of Muchmore… the Zapruder film. (Gordon Arnold, Babushka lady both might have captured it… but those films are gone, if they ever existed at all) Muchmore’s limo shot is synced to z272… Nix’s limo shot is synced at approx. z295 From approx. z133 until z272, only the Zfilm captures the action in motion All the photos of the limo are placed in reference to a Zframe location On the weekend of the shooting the NPIC and LIFE had access to the film… Frames were numbered with 312 being the headshot and then worked backward from there Or so it seems… As we watch the film it is obvious that JFK is hit somewhere between 190 and 225, at least once I believe it was the WCR that stated there was not shot from the TSBD until frame 210 “The test revealed that the next point at which the rifleman had a clear view through the telescopic sight of the point where the bullet entered the President's back was when the car emerged from behind the tree at frame 210.279 (See Commission Exhibit No. 893, p. 102.)” So LIFE’s shot at 190 is not possible from the TSBD unless it was a complete miss And the OTHER POSSIBLITIES “Frames on which shots occur” lists 206 and 213. There is then a break until at least z242… and z264… that is if we assume they are listing the frames in which shots appear or are they working backward and saying shots HAD to occur on these frames… If we were to remove 2 seconds of film, 36 frames, PRIOR to z272, we now have z242 occurring at z206 (where there is a splice in the film), and z264 occurring at z228… right after when shots appear as if they were fired in the existing z film By removing any 36 frames between z133 and z272 the three films sync… z156 comes to mind where there is a visible splice… and again if the wide turn was removed… the 36 frames needn’t be consecutive… There is also a splice in Hughes as the limo starts the turn and Towner, where it has the limo near the center line at the end of a smooth turn… but also a splice I’d suggest that somewhere between 156 and 206, approx 36 frames have been removed during a sequence when not a single other film captures this removal and the z film can be synced to any and all other films/photos just by using revised frame numbers… 313 becomes 349/350 and Altgens is standing right where he is supposed to be – 15 feet from the limo - and the limo slows to much less than 8mph from z255 until z313… as Brehm and others basically say it was essentially stopped… at 2-3 mph that impression is not so hard and the ability of Hill to catch the limo is greatly increased…. Plus we KNOW the brakes were on… Somehow the action was moved up the street… I still do not understand all the mechanics there but the notion that it was impossible to sync the Zfilm to ALL THE OTHER FILMS is a falsehood… there simply were not any other films to sync to during the time when frames would have been removed… I welcome all critiques of my logic and hypothesis… Just trying a little out of the box thought… Cheers DJ edit: forgot to attach the file