Thomas Graves

_______________________________________ Maybe it was a result of the acid trip(s) he is alleged to have taken with Mary Pinchot Meyer. --Thomas _______________________________________ Thomas, I know you were jesting, but if he did take a trip with Mary Meyer (and I think he probably did), then it detracted from his performance as President not one bit. He had successfully resolved the steel dispute, the Cuban missile crisis, the Berlin crisis, established a real time connection with the Soviet leadership, and signed off on the nuclear test ban treaty with them in August. World leaders were regarding him with increasing respect. He had the support of the labor movement and was well ahead in the polls. The prospects for re-election were good. Some might consider that a cautious experiment in expanding one's consciousness the natural recourse of an inquiring mind. Such an adventure would not be for everyone but as far as I can tell, it had no adverse effect on JFK's judgement. ________________________________________ Mark, No, I wasn't jesting. (And I agree with you, totally.) --Thomas ________________________________________

CIA training session? ___________________________________________ Reminds me of Elvis Costello's song "Watching The Detectives." ___________________________________________

_______________________________________ Maybe it was a result of the acid trip(s) he is alleged to have taken with Mary Pinchot Meyer. --Thomas _______________________________________

____________________________________ Hell yes. Make me stay up all night sometime, even. --Thomas ____________________________________

Now we go toward Mac Wallace? Careful or Lady Bird will jump from her grave and sick the "Boggy Man" on you. Another name of that line.... "Jerry Stilley" (pho) Denver County Jail inmate brought up from Canyon City (doing life) on an appeal for killing a Denver cop. It was said he was connected to Denver's crime family and made a hit. Stilly killed himself in prison after all his appeals were thrown out. It seems he stabbed himself in the back. (emphasis added by Thomas G.) _______________________________________ He shouda been in da circus... _______________________________________

__________________________________________ Tosh, Thanks for resuming your posting to this forum. --Thomas __________________________________________

_________________________________ FWIW, Seems to be missing a front tooth and to have really bad teeth. See enlarged photo in Duncan's post #10, too. --Thomas _________________________________

______________________________________________ Excellent response, Duncan. Thanks, --Thomas ______________________________________________

_______________________________________________ Jack, click on this: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKphotographs.htm --Thomas _______________________________________________ corrected and bumped _________________________________________

dupe

______________________________________ Well worth an occasional bump! ______________________________________

Could be. ____________________________________ Uhhh..."Perhaps"!!! ____________________________________

_______________________________________________ Jack, click on this: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKphotographs.htm --Thomas _______________________________________________

Excellent, James. These photos are all clearly the same guy. Pat, Likely, but hardly"clearly" -- at least to these myopic peepers. ____________________________________ Isn't "likely" a rather intellectual word for "probably?" (Probably.) --Thomas ____________________________________

Excellent, James. These photos are all clearly the same guy. ___________________________ I agree with you, Pat. Thanks James! --Thomas ___________________________

_________________________________ Thanks for posting that, Duncan. Good work, Bill. Kudos to both of you. --Thomas _________________________________

If the MMMC is the guy in the USMC photo, his identity should be known. BK _______________________________________ Has the guy in the USMC photo ever been identified? He seems to be the subject of the photograph, doesn't he? Or was LHO sneakily (sp?) taking a picture of Roscoe White instead? _______________________________________

Wrone argues that no opportunity existed to steal the body while aboard Air Force One. He says that “steel wrapping cables were placed around it and its lid” (p. 134), which would of course make it difficult to quickly remove the body. He cites no source on these cables. Posner and Bishop make similar claims in their books, with no sources cited. I have not found a single eyewitness account of cables or straps being used on the casket on AF1. That includes the accounts of pilot James Swindal and flight engineer Joe Chappell, who would have been directly responsible for any such securing of cargo. Wrone says that “the majority of JFK’s aides and staff were not present” during the swearing-in ceremony and thus did not leave the casket unprotected (p. 135). But that is simply not true. Every single JFK aide and staff member on AF1 is accounted for in one or more of the photos that Cecil Stoughton took of the swearing-in, except for General McHugh, who stayed with the coffin and would thus be a party to any theft. On the reported black hearse that brought a shipping casket to the rear of the hospital at Bethesda, Wrone says that “Lifton cites some navy men at Bethesda who said they saw an ambulance come up Fourteenth Street from Walter Reed.” Wrone says that no such street leads out from Walter Reed. But who actually said anything about Walter Reed? What Dennis David told Lifton was that one of the navy men said that the casket “came up Fourteenth Street and came in the back gate.” No one mentioned Walter Reed. Wrone also says that a colonel found the back gate padlocked with no guard posted that afternoon, which was unusual since the colonel always used that gate as a shortcut home. Wrone says this would have made it “fairly difficult” to deliver the body through that gate. He doesn’t consider the possibility that the gate was padlocked and unguarded on that night of all nights because the conspirators wanted no traffic or guard around when they unlocked it to bring in the body. As for the shipping casket story, Wrone says, “Nor was there any gray coffin used to spirit away JFK’s corpse, although such coffins used for interring deceased military personnel were hardly unusual at Bethesda. The fact remains – based on witness testimony – that JFK’s body was indeed transported in a bronze casket, from which it was not removed until its arrival at Bethesda” (p. 137). Wrone refers to witness testimony regarding the bronze coffin. But what does he say about the witnesses (O’Connor, David, Riebe, Stover) to a shipping casket? He doesn’t say a single word. An uninformed reader of Wrone’s book will come away not even knowing that O’Connor and the others exist. I haven’t read all of Wrone’s book, so I didn’t think it would be proper for me to review only part of it. His work on the Z film may be excellent. But since you brought up his discussion of Lifton regarding the body, I believe that your view that Wrone “annihilates” Lifton’s argument could not be more mistaken. ________________________________________ Interesting stuff, Ron. Have you finished reading the book yet? If so, does it have any other inaccuracies or error of omission you can point out to us? Thanks, --Thomas ________________________________________

___________________________________ Or a beer stein. ___________________________________

___________________________________ Let's see if we can have them extradited from Ohio. Check that. Make it New Mexico. Actually, everyone's probably just waiting for "Tosh" Plumlee to start communicating with us again. Personally, I'd like to hear from GPH again, too, someday. Regardless, Merry Christmas to both. --Thomas ___________________________________

___________________________________ Maybe it's just a conspiracy. ___________________________________

______________________________ Prove it. lol .... ______________________________

__________________________________ J.W., Regarding your post #48 this thread, great catch! Does anyone know if this vehicle was caught on film by anyone else and/or at any other time? This of course is the light colored 1962 Rambler American station wagon J.W. King refered to in response to my questions about a possible Rambler station wagon on the Elm Street Extention visible in posts #1 and #9 on the Hammer Man and Crew thread. Thanks, --Thomas _________________________________

_____________________________________ J.W., Thanks for trying! At least you don't rule out the possibility that it could be a Rambler station wagon back there on the Elm Street Extention... I think it is a Rsw (and I used to own one). --Thomas ____________________________________

It's a real attachment taken from the Croft 3 photo. If it is not a mallet/mug-o-brew/coffee cup... what could it be? Mr. Miller claims he has a travel mug that big but I doubt anyone sold travel mugs that big in 1963. Thomas: You will find lots of information about the Ramblers in DP at this link: (emphasis added by T.G.) http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6365 ________________________________________ Yes Don, that's a wonderful link and thank you for referring me to it but the particular car I'm interested in is the one that's visible in Croft #3 in posts #1 and #9 this thread, directly behind the woman wearing the blue dress and red sweater/coat.... It certainly looks like a Rambler station wagon to me and it certainly looks like it's parked on the Elm Street Extention which runs right in front of the TSBD.... I'm hoping that our resident car identification expert J.W. King will give his opinion on this particular car, i.e. is it a Rambler station wagon? Thanks, --Thomas ________________________________________ Bump __________________