Thomas Graves

___________________________________ Hi John, You're "on," buddy.... I don't play "Go." Not smart enough, I guess. lol I'll send you my Yahoo! games ID by e-mail or PM and maybe we can arrange a time to play chess in a particular "room" there. Going out to dinner now, though.... So, "Later...." --Thomas P.S. What do you think about Capeheart/"Damon"? ___________________________________

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Gerry, What sort of special mission did Capeheart/"Damon" want you and your guys to use his guns for before letting you use them in your Cuban Missile Crisis operations? (Your description of Capeheart's "gaudy white Cadillac convertible" reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson's "Great White Shark" Caddy in Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas....) --Thomas ________________________________

Mark, The WCR altered Craig's deposition to hide the true facts & to concoct the LN rubbish. Craig writes: I first saw my testimony in January of 1968 when I looked at the 26 volumes which belonged to Penn Jones. My alleged statement was included. The following are some of the changes in my testimony: Arnold Rowland told me that he saw two men on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository 15 minutes before the President arrived: one was a Negro, who was pacing back and forth by the southwest window. The other was a white man in the southeast corner, with a rifle equipped with a scope, and that a few minutes later he looked back and only the white man was there. In the Warren Commission: Both were white, both were pacing in front of the southwest corner and when Rowland looked back, both were gone; I said the Rambler station wagon was light green. The Warren Commission: Changed to a white station wagon; I said the driver of the Station Wagon had on a tan jacket. The Warren Commission: A white jacket; I said the license plates on the Rambler were not the same color as Texas plates. The Warren Commission: Omitted the not -- omitted but one word, an important one, so that it appeared that the license plates were the same color as Texas plates; I said that I got a good look at the driver of the Rambler. The Warren Commission: I did not get a good look at the Rambler. (In Captain Fritz's office) I had said that Fritz had said to Oswald, "This man saw you leave" (indicating me). Oswald said, "I told you people I did." Fritz then said, "Now take it easy, son, we're just trying to find out what happened", and then (to Oswald), "What about the car?" to which Oswald replied, "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to drag her into this." Fritz said car -- station wagon was not mentioned by anyone but Oswald. (I had told Fritz over the telephone that I saw a man get into a station wagon, before I went to the Dallas Police Department and I had also described the man. This is when Fritz asked me to come there.) Oswald then said, "Everybody will know who I am now;" the Warren Commission: Stated that the last statement by Oswald was made in a dramatic tone. This was not so. The Warren Commission also printed, "NOW everybody will know who I am", transposing the now. Oswald's tone and attitude was one of disappointment. If someone were attempting to conceal his identity as Deputy and he was found out, exposed -- his cover blown, his reaction would be dismay and disappointment. This was Oswald's tone and attitude -- disappointment at being exposed! http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html ___________________________________ Miles, Good stuff! Thanks! --Thomas -------------------------------- Now, questions for anyone to please answer for me: 1) How could Det. Craig have known that the man (LHO) he saw in custody in Fritz's office was shorter than he (Craig) was, based solely on the man's appearance sitting there in Fritz's office? Based on that viewing, Craig said,"[...] he was short[...]" [...]I'm five eleven--he was shorter than I was." How could he say this when the man (LHO) not only was not standing up, but Craig couldn't even see what color pants he was wearing sitting there at the table? Craig said that he (Craig) was 5'11" and that the guy he saw running down the knoll and getting into the station wagon with a luggage rack was "...five nine, five eight, something like that..." That I can accept. But someone sitting down is quite different. Reminds me of one time when I (6'5") was sitting at at table in a pub with some ex-pat friends and their Czech friends and I get up to leave and the guy sitting next to me gets up, too, and he's effing 6'7" or something and I was rather surprised to say the least... I guess the point I'm trying to make is that based on my experience, it's impossible to discern two or three inches difference in height (plus or minus) by looking at someone when they are sitting down, for crying out loud.... (Unless, perhaps, their legs are so short that their feet don't quite touch the ground. Naw....) 2) OK, Det. Craig really said that the license plates on the station wagon were not from Texas and I really really really want to believe everything he says. Does anyone know whether or not he ever said what color the plates were? I would think that the color would be easy to remember. Evidently there was a combination of numbers and letters on the plates, but what was the color? Anyone know, please? Thanks. Sorry if this is a stupid question-- I gave away the few assassination books I had before moving to the Czech Republic and the only one I have now (which I recently bought for a buck at a library used-book sale!) is Jim Marr's Crossfire.... 3) Question for Mark Carter-- Where was Det. Craig standing when he heard the "shrill whistle" and turned around and/or looked up and saw the "Rambler station wagon" heading slowly west down Elm and the guy running like a maniac down the grassy knoll towards the vehicle? Was Craig standing way down Elm (looking a the bullet/fragment strike on the curb or "pavement near the triple underpass"(?), or was he standing/kneeling farther up Elm (on the south side), looking at a different possible "pavement"/curb/sidewalk/grass bullet strike, relatively close to where Moorman, Brehm, et al had been standing at Z-313...? 4) Question for anyone, please-- What are we to make of the famous photo showing a large group of shocked witnesses standing on the western and central part of the grassy knoll in which the dark-suit-wearing Det. Craig is purportedly visible in the relative foreground on the edge of this large group on the north side of Elm and the head/face of someone, perhaps LHO (or an impostor) is visible behind a short wall of some sort, walking from left to right and if I remember correctly the figure identified as Det. Craig is looking in that person's direction??? If that's Craig, how did he get there from the south side of Elm through all the heavy traffic that he said prevented him from even crossing the street? Am I missing something here? Where was Craig when he first saw the "LHO" character? I know he claimed to have been on the south side of Elm Street and that he said that the light green station wagon with the luggage rack stopped almost directly across from him (so I guess that rules out the way down Elm near the Tripple Underpass location, doesn't it?), and that the traffic was so heavy that he couldn't cross the street (from the south side of Elm to the north side of Elm) to question/apprehend the two suspects who were going westbound down Elm. 5) I've read somewhere that the Paine's owned several vehicles. Did they (Michael and/or Ruth) actually own a light green Rambler station wagon, or any station wagon with a luggage rack at the rear for that matter, with non-Texas plates? Did his/her/their '55 Chevy station wagon have luggage racks and was it light green in color? 6) In Crossfire Marrs (on page 330) quotes Craig as testifying to the Warren Commission on April 1 (April Fool's Day?), 1964, "[...] Captain Fritz then asked (LHO) about the-uh-he said, 'What about this station wagon?' [emphasis added; different from Miles' quote which uses the critically vague word car ] And the suspect [[Oswald]] interrupted him and said, 'That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine ... Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it.' ... Captain Fritz then told him ... 'All we're trying to do is find out what happened and this man [Det. Craig] saw you leave the scene.' And the suspect again interrupted Captain Fritz and said, 'I told you people that I did.' ... Then he continued and he said, 'Everybody will know who I am now.' " [same word order as in Miles' quote; emphasized by T.G.] So if Miles' sources are correct on what Craig actually did or did not say to the Warren Commission, then the only conclusion I can come to is that either Marrs' sources were wrong or that Marrs misquoted it/them or that Craig changed his story a bit himself after testifying to the Warren Commission.... Ideas on this, anyone? Thank you (Myra, James, Tosh (lol), Jack, John, Lee, Ron, Larry, Tom, Duke, Bernice, Robin, Miles, et al, et al) in advance.... --Thomas P.S. Just an idea-- In Crossfire (pg. 330 again), Marrs says, "Craig later described the driver of the station wagon as a 'very dark complected' man with short, dark hair wearing a white windbreaker-type short jacket." Hmm... Sounds a bit like our old friend DCM, doesn't it? Very dark complected (but not dark enough to be called a "Negro" by Craig), with short, dark hair and wearing a white windbreaker-type jacket. I know that there are photos of DCM walking west down Elm shortly after the assassination, and then he is seen traversing the grassy knoll itself. I'm just wondering if there was enough time for him to walk into the parking lot or walk the long way around the TSBD, get into the parked light green station wagon and drive it slowly down Elm to rendevous (sp) with LHO or the imposter... Probably not enough time, huh? Oh well, just an idea.... ___________________________________

________________________________________________ James, during a quick look at the photos you posted in your post #21 this thread, it's interesting to note that Umbrella Man's right ear and Jerry Buchanan's right ear both stick out at a similar sharp angle.. They also have similar eyebrows, noses, and overall facial structures. --Thomas ________________________________________________ __________________ Corrected improved and BUMPED __________________

________________________________________________ James, during a quick look at the photos you posted in your post #21 this thread, it's interesting to note that Umbrella Man's right ear and Jerry Buchanan's right ear both stick out at quite a similar, sharp angle, don't they? They also have very similar eyebrows, nose, and overall facial structure in my humble opinion.... --Thomas ________________________________________________

[...] http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKweldonD.htm --Thomas [...] __________________________ bump a bagel for the dough-nut man.... __________________________

[...] http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKweldonD.htm --Thomas [...]

_______________________________ Jack, I understand. Thanks. Hope your computer is okay now.... --Thomas _______________________________

____________________ Jack, I agree. Just because it ain't visible in some of the photos don't mean it warn't there. If anyone want to read 'bout it a little bit on the famous Spartacus Website, all they got to do is click on this here link: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKweldonD.htm --Thomas P.S. Why did you post the link to the "University of Texas at Arlington Library" website? I'm sure you did so for a very pertinent reason, but what exactly are we supposed to click on??? --Thanks P.P.S. Go Froggies! Purple Haze, baby! ____________________

I think we have to be careful when evaluating Veciana's honesty. I've always felt that he was telling a half-truth. I think enough has been established to verify the basic claims Veciana makes; that said, the idea that Phillips would just accidentally have Oswald and Veciana meet up is absurd to me. This would be tradecraft at its absolute worst. The more likely scenario is that Oswald and Veciana were MEANT to meet each other and that this was the part that Veciana left out. I also think it's likely (and to some extent was confirmed by Waldron) that the subject of such a conversation and the basis for the meeting was a Castro assassination attempt. Few have really looked at the Veciana-Oswald-Odio connection. Recall that Odio's father was in prison for harboring a Castro assassin that Veciana (AND BISHOP) supported. My bet is that Veciana was the one who put Oswald and co. up to seeing Odio-- the basic idea being the hope that Sylvia would assist Oswald in getting into the very Cuban underground that her father had once assisted. That does not mean that the two men who were with Oswald hadn't already started giving some thought to the possibility that the plot could be turned on JFK. If one studies the context, the CIA had largely removed itself from the "get Castro" game by the time Veciana made his revelations about Bishop without prompting. My bet is that Veciana hoped that by floating *part* of the Bishop-Oswald story, and leaving out the really juicy parts that also implicated Veciana, he could blackmail Bishop and the CIA back into a more overtly anti-Castro position. Once Veciana met Philips (and I believe Phillips was Bishop) and learned that he was retired, he abandoned that approach for fear that it would jeopardize his life unnecessarily. Lots of speculation above, I admit. But it explains quite a bit. -Stu ______________________________________ Stu, I wish everyone on this Forum was as fluent (grammar-wise, syntax-wise, vocabulary-wise, spelling-wise, etc) in the English language as you obviously are, and that they were as cogent in their arguments as well. Excellent post. P.S. I too think that "Bishop" was Phillips. I base my conclusion on the fact that the infamous sketch of "Bishop" depicts him with several warts, wens, moles and/or "marks" on the left side of his face, and that photos of David Atlee Phillips show him with exactly the same kinds of "things" on the left side of his face.... [As Shakespeare said, "Aye, there's the rub," and, oh yeah-- "Out, out damned spot," (or words to that effect). (I say, "The 'Devil' is in the details....") lol] Thanks, --Thomas ______________________________________

______________________________ Questions for 1) Miles, and 2) Bill (or anyone else for that matter): in your humble opinion (lol), is it a possibility that a (through-and-through) bullet hole was created in the windshield either 1) sometime after Z-255, or 2) sometime after Z-198?, and if so, do you think it could have been created by the same bullet that laid open the right side of JFK's skull from front to back at Z-313 and created a baseball-sized exit wound in the occipital-parietal (rear) part of JFK's head? Thanks, --Thomas __________________________ nota bene: bump-a-bagel for the dough-nut man.... __________________________

_________________________ Robin, Thanks for posting all these great photos! At Parkland Hospital, both former Dallas Police Officer H.R. Freeman and Dallas Police Officer Stavis Ellis (who was in charge of the motorcade escort!) are reported to have witnessed a through-and-through hole in the windshield, and Ellis is reported to have actually put a pencil "in" the hole: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKweldonD.htm I think I can see this hole (a darkish circular spot about the diameter of a standard pencil) in two of the photos you've posted-- the blowup of the blowup in post # 1 (just a smidgen to the right of center), and in the blowup of the upper photo in post #2 (at the very bottom at the overall "center," just to the left of the car's radio antenna.... Can anyone else see the hole where I see it? Thanks, --Thomas P.S. Interesting that Ellis said that the hole was on the driver's side of the windshield. The medical and photographic evidence seem to indicate that one of the fatal shots may very well have come from that direction.... __________________________ bump bagel for the dough-nut __________________________

_________________________ Robin, Thanks for posting all these great photos! At Parkland Hospital, both former Dallas Police Officer H.R. Freeman and Dallas Police Officer Stavis Ellis (who was in charge of the motorcade escort!) are reported to have witnessed a through-and-through hole in the windshield, and Ellis is reported to have actually put a pencil "in" the hole: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKweldonD.htm I think I can see this hole (a darkish circular spot about the diameter of a standard pencil) in two of the photos you've posted-- the blowup of the blowup in post # 1 (just a smidgen to the right of center), and in the blowup of the upper photo in post #2 (at the very bottom at the overall "center," just to the left of the car's radio antenna(?).... Question, Robin-- Why did you post the lower photo in post #2? I realize I'm probably overlooking something.... Is there any windshield or any other damage visible in that photo? Separate question for anyone to answer-- any idea as to why the Lincoln's trunk is open in the lower post #2 photo? Thank you in advance, --Thomas P.S. Interesting to note that Ellis was emphatic that the bullet hole was on the driver's side of the windshield, inasmuch as I think that "Tosh" Plumlee was telling the truth about a shot being fired from near the juncture of the South Knoll and the Triple Underpass, and the fact that the medical and photographic evidence seem to indicate that one of the fatal shots may very well have come from that direction.... __________________________ _____________ BUMP _____________

__________________________________ Robin, Miles didn't post that question-- I did (post #10; shall I "bump it?" OK, here we go....!) I'm sure that Miles of Smiles would never ask such "silly" questions as I do from time to time. LOL) Regardless, thanks for the timely response! --Thomas __________________________________

_________________________ Robin, Thanks for posting all these great photos! At Parkland Hospital, both former Dallas Police Officer H.R. Freeman and Dallas Police Officer Stavis Ellis (who was in charge of the motorcade escort!) are reported to have witnessed a through-and-through hole in the windshield, and Ellis is reported to have actually put a pencil "in" the hole: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKweldonD.htm I think I can see this hole (a darkish circular spot about the diameter of a standard pencil) in two of the photos you've posted-- the blowup of the blowup in post # 1 (just a smidgen to the right of center), and in the blowup of the upper photo in post #2 (at the very bottom at the overall "center," just to the left of the car's radio antenna.... --Thomas P.S. Interesting to note that Ellis was emphatic that the bullet hole was on the driver's side of the windshield. The medical and photographic evidence seem to indicate that one of the fatal shots may very well have come from that direction.... __________________________

_______________________ Charlie, I agree. In my humble opinion, Hunt probably had some highly-incriminating documents, tape recordings, and/or photos (original negatives) stashed away in a several safe places and let certain elements of the CIA/FBI/Mafia see and/or listen to the Zeroxes, copies and/or prints of said incriminating items with the understanding that if he died under suspicious circumstances, said "evidence" would be made "public." Heck, who knows... Maybe Hunt really was that "old tramp" being escorted by "police" down the Elm Street extention and maybe he was carrying a Minox (or some such small camera) in the smallish paper bag visible in his left hand in some of the photos. Maybe he had taken photos of the shooters, spotters and/or radiomen in action.... Nah, it was probably a radio.... --Thomas _______________________

Well, DCM (as he is also known) definitely had something bulky under his jacket [...] IMO the best guess is either some sort of weapon, including possibly a case for it, or else radio equipment. [...] __________________________ Ron, I agree. It's so obvious in the photo you posted.... Also, he was clearly talking into a walkie-talkie in one of the photos taken of him and Umbrella Man while they were sitting next to each other on the curb.... BTW, was he wearing a white or a light blue jacket? --Thomas __________________________

____________________________ Indeed. Wonder if he was making a report or under some sort of "friendly interrogation?" --Thomas ____________________________

____________________________ Excellent stuff, Gil. Keep up the good work! --Thomas ____________________________

_______________________________ William, You're absolutely right about Roger Craig's saying that Oswald made that remark ("Now everyone will know who I am.") in a frustrated (and self-disgusted and resigned) tone of voice. All anyone has to do to confirm this is to watch Gil Jesus' recent youtube.com posting on this Forum "VIDEO- The Green Rambler" in which you can see and hear eye-and-ear-witness Craig himself talking about the whole incident and his impressions of Oswald.... --Thomas P.S. I think Oswald realized that he had just "let the cat out of the bag" by referring to "the car" as "Mrs. Paine's station wagon." Don't ask me why or how, though-- it's too complicated for me to figure out.... lol _______________________________

_________________________ Thanks James, As you know, I value quite highly your observations and your theories. I understand the significance of the name "Bishop" in the context of the assassination, and the fact that it was apparently used by several different operatives.... Regardless, in comparing "The Sketch" to the photos of all the possible CIA dudes who might have been LHO's controller, I think that the definitive answer lies in the details. The details I'm referring to are the representations in the sketch of warts, wens, moles, splotches, freckles, and/or birthmarks which are clearly visible on the left side of the man's face in the sketch which are also clearly visible in the photo of one David Atlee Phillips. So far, no one on The Forum has addressed this minor observation on my part (regarding the warts, wens, moles, splotches, freckles, and/or birthmarks)... Of all the candidates I've seen so far (including Moore), the only one who has similar marks on the left side of his face is David Atlee Phillips.... Onward Ho! --Thomas __________________________ bump __________________________ ___________________ As threatened lol OK, what about those moles, wens, freckles, splotches and/or birth marks on (his) left side of his face in both the photo and the sketch? --Thanks ___________________ Here ya go Thomas. From Dick Russell's The Man who knew too much, page 334, 1992 - I'd say that James has something of great interest here. - lee _________________________ Hi Lee, Thanks for that! (post #21) Interesting, and "plausible," explanation, I suppose.... --Thomas _________________________

Yes, thank you Robin, great detail. EDIT:: Wonder if this person (pink dot Altgen7, inset) is standing on this (the pink arrow) thing? __________________________ John, Great observation. Wonder what those things are? Must have been fairly flat on top if a person could stand on top of one like that. Also wonder why the guy didn't just "elbow" his way into a good vantage spot along the railing like the other spectators//? Hmmm.... Maybe he needed to elevate himself to make himself more visible to the shooters' "helpers" who were waiting for some sort of signal from him? On page 23 of Crossfire, Jim Marrs says in so many words that Ronald B. Fischer, a Dallas County auditor, was standing on the SW corner of Elm and Houston less than ten minutes before the motorcade passed by and looked up and noticed the head and shoulders of a man (wearing a light sportshirt or a white T-shirt) in a window of the TSBD and that the man was "surrounded by boxes and was staring 'transfixed,' not toward the approaching motorcade, but IN THE DIRECTION OF THE TRIPLE UNDERPASS." [emphasis added; sorry to "shout"] I submit, John, that the guy that you've pointed out to us on the Triple Underpass could have been one of the conspirators' "signalmen" (pardon the pun; how ironic was it if the guy was "dressed up" as a railroad worker?--wow), as, most likely, was DCM and/or TUM. Maybe the guy you've pointed out was using simple hand signs (and/or the act of getting up on the thing itself) to communicate "All systems, Go!" to his co-conspirators.... All the more reason for him to be standing behind the guys crowding the Underpass railing. Has anyone ever identified this guy, or has he ever come forward? --Thomas P.S. Thanks for the great photo, Robin! Any idea when it was taken? I notice that the "new" Dallas Courthouse (which steelworker Richard Carr was working on on 11/22/63) is already finished in the photo, but the vehicles still look "old" and the Hertz Car Rental sign is still in place.... Thanks. __________________________ Thomas, Hard to say whether it's suitable to stand on. They appear to be adjoining the switching areas of the tracks, probably box like switch housings. Maybe such a vantage point gives a wider view overall. It'd be interesting to read what that person saw/heard and why he/she choose that place. It's a 1967, four yeas later photo I think. (Another observation relating to an issue in another topic is the box-structure of the temp/time sign, and the top of the pipe that restricted space in the snipers nest. Peter posted a photo from the main/houston corner that also showed that pipe.) The photo seems cropped. The right end of the overpass would be good to see at this detail. Another aerial (posted some month or so ago) taken a day after the assassination did not have this detail but showed the area behind the tree by the collonade and what looked like a broad pile of soil or something suggesting a raising of the ground level to that of the inside of the collonade structure. Pity so much is so borderline and merely suggestive. (Personally I don't doubt that somewhere the relevant footage/photo's exist that would answer a lot of questions, big and small.) (image) of the 11/23/63 aerial at the right end of the overpass indicates tha while the tracks may have been near ground level at red arrow, the darker area along the track at the green arrow indicate a shadow ie the track at this point appears it was raised compared to ground level, as Tosh said.

____________________________ Thanks, Jack! So when were those new overhead lane signs put over Elm? Thanks, --Thomas P.S. "Go Froggies!" Did I ever tell you I used to play three-on-three basketball against Norm Bulaich back in '67? I'll never forget the first time when he told his teammates, "I'll take tallboy." (Me, unfortunately...) ____________________________

Yes, thank you Robin, great detail. EDIT:: Wonder if this person (pink dot Altgen7, inset) is standing on this (the pink arrow) thing? __________________________ John, I think you're right. Nice observation. Wonder what those things are-- lights? Must have been fairly flat on top if a person could stand on top of one like that. Also wonder why the guy didn't just "elbow" his way into a good vantage spot along the railing like the other onlookers? Hmmm.... Maybe he needed to elevate himself to make himself more visible to the shooters' helpers who were waiting for some sort of signal from him? On page 23 of Crossfire, Jim Marrs says in so many words that Ronald B. Fischer, a Dallas County auditor, was standing on the SW corner of Elm and Houston less than ten minutes before the motorcade passed by and looked up and noticed the head and shoulders of a man (wearing a light sportshirt or a white T-shirt) in a window of the TSBD and that the man was "surrounded by boxes and was staring 'transfixed,' not toward the approaching motorcade, but in the direction of the Triple Underpass." [emphasis added] I submit, John, that the guy that you've pointed out to us on the Triple Underpass could have been one of the conspirators' "signalmen" (pardon the pun; how ironic was it if the guy was "dressed up" as a railroad worker?--wow), as, most likely, was DCM and/or TUM. Maybe the guy you've pointed out was using simple hand signs (and/or the act of getting up on the thing itself) to communicate "All systems, Go!" to his co-conspirators.... All the more reason for him to be standing behind the guys crowding the Underpass railing. Has anyone ever identified this guy, or has he ever come forward? --Thomas P.S. Thanks for the great photo, Robin! Any idea when it was taken? I notice that the "new" Dallas Courthouse (which steelworker Richard Carr was working on on 11/22/63) is already finished in the photo, but the vehicles still look "old" and the Hertz Car Rental sign is still in place.... Thanks. __________________________ Thomas, Hard to say whether it's suitable to stand on. They appear to be adjoining the switching areas of the tracks, probably box like switch housings. Maybe such a vantage point gives a wider view overall. It'd be interesting to read what that person saw/heard and why he/she choose that place. It's a 1967, four yeas later photo I think. (Another observation relating to an issue in another topic is the box-structure of the temp/time sign, and the top of the pipe that restricted space in the snipers nest. Peter posted a photo from the main/houston corner that also showed that pipe.) The photo seems cropped. The right end of the overpass would be good to see at this detail. Another aerial (posted some month or so ago) taken a day after the assassination did not have this detail but showed the area behind the tree by the collonade and what looked like a broad pile of soil or something suggesting a raising of the ground level to that of the inside of the collonade structure. Pity so much is so borderline and merely suggestive. (Personally I don't doubt that somewhere the relevant footage/photo's exist that would answer a lot of questions, big and small.) (image) of the 11/23/63 aerial at the right end of the overpass indicates tha while the tracks may have been near ground level at red arrow, the darker area along the track at the green arrow indicate a shadow ie the track at this point appears it was raised compared to ground level, as Tosh said. ___________________________________ John, The white "things" (of which I think I counted nine in Robin's newly-posted photo) look like they're about 18" tall based on the relatively long shadows they're casting in the photo you've posted.... Maybe the other areas of possible shadows you've pointed out is due to moisture from a fairly recent shower/rainstorm? In my humble opinion, the "things" looks rather flat on top, as well. The only reasonable conclusion I can come to at this point is that the guy in "Altgens 7" is either standing on one of those "things," or he's around 7.5 feet tall.... I've got an idea! Maybe it was G.P.H.! Naw... He was "only" 6'5'' to 6'8" lol. --Thomas ___________________________________