Thomas Graves

___________________ Chris, I've always found this clip very interesting. Looks like a policeman, maybe, behind the fence bending over (looking at something or picking up something) then standing up and becoming more visible to the camera. That thing that appears on the left might be the front of a car which is heading east up Elm Street. Do you know about how many minutes after the shooting this footage was taken by Mr. Darnell (as pointed out by Chris in post #4)? One minute, two,... ? Thanks, --Thomas ___________________ _________________________ Folks, When I watch, over and over again, the stabilized Couch clip posted by Chris on this thread, it's obvious to me that there was a dark "stain" or "wet spot" or "pool" of something, (soda pop?, blood?, pee-pee? lol)... on the left side of the walkway and slightly behind the bench. In the clip, it's interesting to note that the little boy and his mother(?) intentionally walk around this dark anomaly as they start walking down the walkway away from the camera and that the inquisitive dark-suited man (detective?) in the foreground seems to be homing in on it at the end of the clip...... The area in question is covered in general shade, cast by the nearby tree/trees, etc. and therefore, sorry, I don't think that the "stain" or "wet spot" or "pool" or "whatever" can be explained away as a simple shadow cast by the widdle boy.... Look for yourself, over and over again as I did, and I think you'll agree....... It's interesting that the mother(?) actually seems to pull the boy's arm in such a way as to keep him from stepping in it. If I remember correctly, Sitzman claimed that she heard "glass breaking" (a thrown-down soda pop bottle perhaps?) to her right. Yes? OK, well, gosh. That's interesting in-and-of-itself, isn't it? Yes, I realize that it's been asserted that a very rapidly-disappearing, mysterious and oh-so-inconveniently-not-coming forth-after-the-assassination "Let's-get-the-Hell-outta-here-while-the-gettin's-good!" Afro-American couple, who had been sitting on the bench, eatin' their lunch and takin' in the passing of the motorcade, had allegedly thrown down one of their soda pop bottles (why?) and left the other bottle of soda pop on top of the "black dog" wall. So I guess what I'm sayin' here is that I doubt that the alleged thrown-down soda pop bottle was thrown down at the place indicated in the Couch film? Hmm.... Interesting. To spell it out, it seems to me that it would have been thrown down more to the front and/or to the side of the bench. In my mind, the dark stain or pool visible in Couch's film was pee-pee or blood left behind by an unwanted witness/victim. But then again, if the guy or gal drinkin' the soda pop realized that the soda was gettin' all over his or her clothing as he or she was runnin' for their life and was otherwise slowin' him or her down, then I suppose it makes sense that he or she would have thrown the bottle of soda pop down right there on the walkway with sufficient force for Sitzman to hear, right? Comments please? Thanks, --Thomas _________________________________ _________________________ ________________________ Hi Chris, I'm leapfrogging a bit here.... Yes, I agree that the detective(?) in the background is closer to and therefore, ostensibly, "more interested in" the stain/pool on the walkway than the detective(?) in the foreground. Fact is, they both seem to be quite interested in it, don't they?. They're just approaching it from different ends/angles. In my my mind, the important question is, "Was it cherry cola or blood or....?" --Thomas P.S. I still think it's a car coming into view on the left, but I could be wrong. It would be an exciting discovery if we could prove that there really was a gap in the fence at that point. But still, how do we explain the appearance of the object coming into view in the left? Someone sticking their hand through the gap? --Thomas P.S. Thanks for posting the great clips. _________________________

___________________ Chris, I've always found this clip very interesting. Looks like a policeman, maybe, behind the fence bending over (looking at something or picking up something) then standing up and becoming more visible to the camera. That thing that appears on the left might be the front of a car which is heading east up Elm Street. Do you know about how many minutes after the shooting this footage was taken by Mr. Darnell (as pointed out by Chris in post #4)? One minute, two,... ? Thanks, --Thomas ___________________ _________________________ Folks, When I watch, over and over again, the stabilized Couch clip posted by Chris on this thread, it's obvious to me that there was a dark "stain" or "wet spot" or "pool" of something, (soda pop?, blood?, pee-pee? lol)... on the left side of the walkway and slightly behind the bench. In the clip, it's interesting to note that the little boy and his mother(?) intentionally walk around this dark anomaly as they start walking down the walkway away from the camera and that the inquisitive dark-suited man (detective?) in the foreground seems to be homing in on it at the end of the clip...... The area in question is covered in general shade, cast by the nearby tree/trees, etc. and therefore, sorry, I don't think that the "stain" or "wet spot" or "pool" or "whatever" can be explained away as a simple shadow cast by the widdle boy.... Look for yourself, over and over again as I did, and I think you'll agree....... It's interesting that the mother(?) actually seems to pull the boy's arm in such a way as to keep him from stepping in it. If I remember correctly, Sitzman claimed that she heard "glass breaking" (a thrown-down soda pop bottle perhaps?) to her right. OK, well, gosh, so what...??? Yes, I also realize that it's been stated that a very rapidly-disappearing, mysterious, and oh-so-inconveniently-not-coming forth-after-the-assassination "Let's-get-the-Hell-outta-here-while-the-gettin's-good!" Afro-American couple, who had been sitting on the bench, eatin' their lunch and takin' in the passing of the motorcade, had allegedly thrown down one of their soda pop bottles and left the other on top of the "black dog" wall. so I wonder if it makes any sense that the alleged thrown-down (soda pop bottle?) glass object, the impact of which Sitzman heard, would/could have been thrown down by one of the Afro-American "couple" at the place indicated in the Couch film? Seems to me that it (a soda pop bottle) would have been thrown down more to the front and/or to the side of the bench, and therefore that the dark stain or pool visible in Couch's film was probably the pee or blood left behind by one of the shooters or witnesses when he or she realized the import and ramifications and/or implications of what he or she had just done or witnessed. Comments please? Thanks, --Thomas _________________________________ _________________________

edited into oblivion..........

___________________ Chris, I've always found this clip very interesting. Looks like a policeman behind the fence in the process of bending over to look at or pick up something. The thing that appears on the left might be the front of a car which is heading east up Elm Street. Do you know about how many minutes after the shooting this footage was taken by Mr. Darnell (as pointed out by Chris in post #4)? One minute, two,... ? Thanks, --Thomas ___________________

___________________________ Either that or, "Point a bolt rifle at him to encourage him to get over here so I can persuade him to 'give it up.' " --Thomas ___________________________

________________________________ Because no sociopathic lone nut in their right mind would even think about transporting curtain rods in a blanket? Just kidding. --Thomas ________________________________

Chris, I believe the arguments against this would be the lack of time and prevailing panic mode after the event. In other words no time for him to disassemble it nor to dispose of it properly. Anyone walking around the TSBD or out of the TSBD at 12:32 on 11/22/1963 with a fairly large paper sack would likely be spotted and/or stopped. However, in retrospect, it would have been a good idea to grab the shells too, which I believe, gave the investigating police the idea that the rifle matching the shells would likely be found not far from the shells, and definitely gave them the thought that must be the sniper's lair. ___________________________ I wonder how long it would have taken the authorities to link LHO to the A.J.Hidell-registered rifle if it hadn't been determined by Truly and Fritz that he was the "only" unaccounted-for TSBD employee around 2:20 P.M. Enough time to escape to another country, like Mexico or....? (If, of course, he hadn't been slowed down by being detained for the Tippit thing.) How long did it take the cops to find the rifle? Couple of hours? Personally, I think the rifle was planted there before the assassination in order to frame LHO. --Thomas ___________________________

____________ You wouldn't happen to remember where you read about the sketch in question or any of the details, would you Ron? Just curious, --Thomas ____________

This has intrigued me from the first time I saw it. The man circled on the right supposedly is Jean Rene Souetre. The picture on the left is cropped from one of the evidence documents ( I don't remember if it was the Warren Hearings, or First Day Evidence or what) of a picture of the alleged assassination rifle. Leaning on the wall behind the rifle is what appears to be a police artist sketch. I think the two pictures are remarkably similar. I also think that someone in the DPD was trying to tell us something. Steve Thomas ___________________________ Steve, I think the sketch (in your post #35) looks a lot like Gordon Novel. FWIW, --Thomas ___________________________

Yes, he was set up by James McCord. Unless we're supposed to believe that it was McCord who was not very smart, indeed abysmally stupid. ____________________________________ So, if Hunt, the seasoned CIA operative and officer, really was naive or stupid enough to let himself get "set up" by McCord in the Watergate thing, he also must have been sufficiently naive or stupid to allow himself to be manipulated into being in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, as either the "old tramp" or as the guy wearing the fedora and the trench coat (with a mysterious bulge under it), crossing Elm Street a short time after the assassination, wouldn't he? I'm also sure that Hunt wanted to be there to witness "the big event." (I mean, if you hated JFK's guts and were privy to the fact that the hit was gonna go down, wouldn't you want to be "there" to witness it, especially if you could play some sort of low-risk "support role?") Reminds me of another really bright but occasionally stupid guy by the name of David Ferrie who naively or stupidly lent LHO his library card. doh --Thomas ____________________________________

________________________ now that's really something ________________________

____________ wow ____________

No, I think that all participants on Hunt's level were smart enough and planned well enough ahead not to get themselves arrested at the scene like common tramps. _______________ Ron, I don't know if the third tramp was Hunt or Holt or some loser from Bumfu*k Idaho, but I think your argument about the supposed superior intelligence (with a capital "I") of Hunt and participants... on his level doesn't hold water. After all, if Hunt had been so F*****g smart, then how did he manage to get implicated in the Watergate break in? Hmmm? Because he wanted to be caught? Because he was "set up?" Yeah, right. "Oh, my God, I forgot that he wrote down my address in his widdle black address book!!... ) --Thomas ________________

No, I think that all participants on Hunt's level were smart enough and planned well enough ahead not to get themselves arrested at the scene like common tramps. Then, do you believe the third tramp was Chauncy Holt? ______________________ My-ra, Instead of trying to put words in Ron's mouth, why don't you just ask him who he thinks the third tramp was? Hmm? Yours, --Thomas ______________________

_____________________________ Not trying to hijack this important thread but just noticed that the guy sitting in the front row wearing sunglasses and leaning forward at 8:49 bears a resemblance to the mysterious John O'Hare/William Bishop.... I'm sure it's just my over-active imagination acting up again, but thought I'd share it with y'all anyway.... FWIW, --Thomas _____________________________

____________________________ Ron, Once again, I agree. (double post lol) --Thomas ____________________________

____________________________ Ron, I agree. --Thomas ____________________________

_________________________ Thanks James, As you know, I value quite highly your observations and your theories. I understand the significance of the name "Bishop" in the context of the assassination, and the fact that it was apparently used by several different operatives.... Regardless, in comparing "The Sketch" to the photos of all the possible CIA dudes who might have been LHO's controller, I think that the definitive answer lies in the details. The details I'm referring to are the representations in the sketch of warts, wens, moles, splotches, freckles, and/or birthmarks which are clearly visible on the left side of the man's face in the sketch which are also clearly visible in the photo of one David Atlee Phillips. So far, no one on The Forum has addressed this minor observation on my part (regarding the warts, wens, moles, splotches, freckles, and/or birthmarks)... Of all the candidates I've seen so far (including Moore), the only one who has similar marks on the left side of his face is David Atlee Phillips.... Onward Ho! --Thomas __________________________ bump __________________________ ___________________ As threatened lol OK, what about those moles, wens, freckles, splotches and/or birth marks on (his) left side of his face in both the photo and the sketch? --Thanks ___________________

Here you go, John, James ____________________________ James, Regarding your post #36, do you know where (and when) the photo on the left was taken? Indo-China? Vietnam? Costa Rica? Nicaragua? Thanks, --Thomas ____________________________

________________________________ Taking into consideration the horizontal angle and vertical declination of JFK's head at the time of the fatal shot (as shown in Z-313 and Moorman's photo, etc), and taking into consideration the medical evidence (as put forth in GRODEN'S DVD "JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY," etc), I can't imagine that the front to back shot that apparently entered the front of JFK's skull on the right side of his head near the hairline at Z-313 and which laid open the the large whitish "flap" of JFK's skull so visible to us on the Z-film and which, according to the Parkland doctors and nurses and technicians, blew out a baseball-sized exit-wound hole in the (right-rear) occipital-parietal part of his skull actually came from behind the North Grassy Knoll fence, be it standing on Duncan's 6-foot ladder 12.25 or 16.222 or 20.0104 or 30.11255 or 34.31843893 feet from "The Corner," simply because a shot from "there" would be too high up and way too much from the side, according to the medical and photographic evidence. A nearly-simultaneous "hit" from the rear I can accept, but the medical and photographic evidence would seem to indicate that the first of the fatal shots came either from the west-south-west junction of the "south knoll" with the overpass (as Tosh Plumlee indicated), the overpass itself, the "sewer drain," or the mysterious Mr. Greer.... Comments please? John Dolva? Lee Forman? "Ashmolean" Gray? Robin Unger? Bernice? Eugene? Jack "Go Froggies!" White? Anyone? Anyone 'tall? --Thomas P.S. Dunkin an' perfesser Skul, eat all-- I a-nows I'z plum stupud butt I want's yous to nose I ain't sayin' they warn't no shootrists standin' appomatixly 16.83927 feet behind that there fince and a-standin' on your's six feet laddar. I just a-sayin' that tey wuz pizz-pore shots an mose probaby dunn a-misted... ______________________ Edited and a-bump-a-row-kneed..... ______________________ -------------- ski bump --------------

Hunt also referred to himself as having a reputation as an "honest man". As Douglas has pointed out Hunt lied to the Rockefeller commission and was anything but an honest man. I know that Douglas has previously said that he considered Hunt to be a patriot and Hunt himself considered himself as such, but I must say that I find Hunt thoroughly unpatriotic, in that he assisted in the delegitimisation of the U.S. presidency and made a mockery of democracy. Indeed this honest man once said "Nobody is entitled to the truth". John ________________________________ John, I agree with you. I think that Hunt was like a lot of other "super patriots," zealots (and yes even many criminals) who manage to delude themselves into believing that they are basically decent, "honest" people. In Hunt's case, I think he confused/deluded himself into equating "honesty" with "loyalty" (to his CIA/mafia-connected associates) in trying to protect and project "the interests" of the USA as he perceived them in the context of the Cold War and our life-and-death struggle with the evil Ruskies. I do, however, think that Hunt was speaking candidly about what he knew about the assassination in a sort of expanded, limited- hangout sort of way when, in 2004, he truly thought that he was his deathbed.... FWIW, --Thomas ________________________________

I listened to Ian Punnett interview Saint John Hunt on coasttocoastam on Saturday night. Saint John inherited his father’s excellent command of the English language and was precise in what he talked about. Saint John said that he had received from his father in January 2004 by U.S. mail an unsolicited tape recording, four-and-one-half minutes of which were played on the radio show Saturday night, and which is scheduled to be played again tonight on coastocoastam. In the tape recording Hunt named CIA officer Cord Meyer as the principal ringleader of the group that assassinated JFK. Mary Meyer, Cord Meyer’s ex-wife and mistress of JFK, was the victim of a mysterious killing one year after JFK was assassinated. Howard Hunt said that as a result of JFK’s adulterous affair with Cord Meyer’s then wife, Cord was ripe for the opportunity to assassinate JFK upon being approached by LBJ, whom Hunt in the tape identified as being at the top of the conspiracy pyramid. Saint John named one Cuban-American who was a member of the conspiracy and who is still alive, indicating that he had talked with this individual about the JFK assassination In the tape Hunt referred to himself as a “benchwarmer” in the assassination conspiracy. Because Hunt was precise in his use of the English language, Ian Punnett in the radio interview focused on the word and asked Saint John if this meant that Hunt was privy to the plot but kept in reserve in case his unique abilities were needed. Saint John agreed that this was a proper description of what a “benchwarmer” is and that might well describe his father’s role in the affair. However, the information provided by Hunt in his tape recording contradicts in its entirety the sworn affidavit that he provided to the Rockefeller Commission in 1974 as printed verbatim on pages 128-129 of his recently published book, “American Spy.” Still, he might have been confident that no one with direct knowledge would dare dispute him in 1974, making him feel safe in filing a sworn affidavit at that time. I have established email communication with Saint John, offering to provide him with the information that I have tying LBJ to the murder. He has responded that he remembers my name well, as his father, my Watergate legal client, talked about me on many occasions. I find it ironic that if what Howard Hunt maintains is true, that I considered him a close friend n the early 1970's while never divining of his knowledge of LBJ’s role in the Kennedy assassination, and that some dozen years later, through my representation of Billie Sol Estes, I was provided additional information linking LBJ to the killing, which I have previously disclosed in this Forum. _____________________________________ Mr. Caddy, Thanks for your input on this. One of the things that really struck me while listening to the tape recording on the radio Saturday night was the fact that Hunt said, in so many words, "Frank (Sturgis) told me that Cord Meyer had told him that LBJ had instructed/asked/encouraged Meyer to enlarge/expand "the operation" (to assassinate JFK). So, if Hunt's 2004 self-recorded "deathbed testimony" is true, the assassination was already "in the works" when LBJ approached Meyer. Hmm.... Interesting! Any insight you might have on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, --Thomas _____________________________________ _____________________ bump-a roo.... _____________________

________________________________ Taking into consideration the horizontal angle and vertical declination of JFK's head at the time of the fatal shot (as shown in Z-313 and Moorman's photo, etc), and taking into consideration the medical evidence (as put forth in GRODEN'S DVD "JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY," etc), I can't imagine that the front to back shot that apparently entered the front of JFK's skull on the right side of his head near the hairline at Z-313 and which laid open the the large whitish "flap" of JFK's skull so visible to us on the Z-film and which blew out a baseball-sized exit-wound hole in the (right-rear) occipital-parietal part of his skull actually came from behind the North Grassy Knoll fence, be it standing on Duncan's 6-foot ladder 12.25 or 16.222 or 20.0104 or 30.11255 or 34.31843893 feet from "The Corner," simply because a shot from "there" would be too high up and way too much from the side, according to the medical evidence. A nearly-simultaneous "hit" from the rear I can accept, but the medical and photographic evidence would seem to indicate that the first of the fatal shots came either from the west-south-west junction of the "south knoll" with the overpass (as Tosh Plumlee indicated), the overpass itself, the "sewer drain," or the mysterious Mr. Greer.... Comments please? John Dolva? Lee Forman? "Ashmolean" Gray? Robin Unger? Bernice? Eugene? Jack "Go Froggies!" White? Anyone? Anyone 'tall? --Thomas P.S. Dunkin an' perfesser Skul, eat all-- I a-nows I'z plum stupud butt I want's yous to a'knose I ain't sayin' they warn't no shootrists behind that there fince a-standin' on your's six feet laddar. I just a-sayin' that tey wuz pizz-pore shots an dunn a-misted... (laffin' aut lowd) ______________________ Edited and a-bump-a-row-kneed..... ______________________ _____________ Sorry, I must a maid a misteak..... _____________