Thomas Graves

______________________ Peter, Believe it or not, I agree with a lot of what you seem to enjoy saying about twice a month and occasionally even in the rather bitter-sounding, strident, radical way you tend to say it. I guess what I'm grousing about here is that-- in my humble opinion-- this thread, and some others like it, should be moved to a different section in the "Controversial Issues" part of the "Education Forum," even if it means that a new "topic" would have to be set up -- ("Conspiracies of the U.S. Military-Industrial-Congressional-Intelligence Complex" or "Dem Dirty Rotten American Bastards... (I hope it's OK to say "bastards," after all, Tosh Plumlee did call Myra a (&*$%#) and GPH said (@%^$*#^) and (#%&^#%$@*) and... ) ...Done Did It Again" come to mind. I don't see how this thread and the ones like it are helping us to figure out who (specifically) organized and "done the deed." But then again, it is called the "JFK Assassination Debate," isn't it...? Oh well, carry on ladies and gentlemen... --Thomas ______________________

See the beginning of the thread for the connection. _________________________________________ --------------------------------------------- "See the beginning of the thread for the connection." --------------------------------------------- Dear Mr. Simkin, You don't mean the link to another thread, do you? To me, your use of the word "connection" (singular) in this context implies the action or actions of an individual person or some sort group or organization whose members, as we've learned, are unfortunately very difficult to positively identify (with documentation of some sort, lol) as being actively involved in organizing and/or carrying out the assassination). Well, I'm willing to accept the possibility that John Edna Hoover or Lyndon Baines Johnson or James Jesus Angleton or Carlos Marcello and/or Santo Trafficante or Interpen or "The Cuban Exiles," or Castro or whomever organized and/or pulled off the assassination. (The disgraceful cover up is another sort of animal altogether, and is in some ways much more enigmatic than the hit itself seems to be after some 44 years of research and "research.") But attempting to implicate practically the entire U.S. "Military- Industrial-Congressional-(and let us not forget) Intelligence 'Complex'" in the assassination is a bit "over the top" (as you say in England), as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I know, they all benefited from the Vietnam War, the invasion and occupation of Iraq, the Drug Trade, etc etc but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were all active members of the (probably relatively-small) cabal that offed JFK. I guess it ultimately depends on how narrowly or how broadly one wants to define the word "complex" in this context doesn't it? IMHO, --Thomas _________________________________________

________________________________________ Hi Carrie, I thought I'd wish you "Happy Birthday" and bump your post at the same time! Have a good one! --Thomas ________________________________________

_________________________________________ Ha ha ha, etc etc. That's a real "knee-slapper," Ron! --Thomas _________________________________________

_____________________________________________ Dear Mr. Simkin, This is all very interesting but what does it have to do specifically with the assassination of an American President by the name of John Fitzgerald Kennedy? We already know that the George Walker Bush administration is full of incompetent (and downright evil) people, and that there are a lot of corrupt Iraqis as well, and that a certain "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" was mentioned in a famous FBI memo right after the assassination, etc etc etc, but could you please try to "connect the dots" a bit more so that we can finally figure out, with appropriate documentation, who the (M*#@^%#*^@G B$&^@&*S) were who murdered JFK? Specifically? Thank you in advance, --Thomas _____________________________________________

OK now chillin', let's do da bump-de-bump! Here we goes now..... Damn, don't anyone wanna dance??? _________________________________________________

_______________________________________ Hi James, I wonder at whose bookstore that photo was taken? Hopefully not the same one that Lt Col Vern Carson drank me "under the table" on that vile Greek liquid known as Metaxa... LOL --Thomas _______________________________________

__________________________ Johnny D., What's the alternative to a "hardtop?" A convertible? I would think there were thousands if not millions of "'63 Ford hardtops" in circulation nation-wide by November 22, 1963. What would be really interesting (and easier to research) is if the speeding car you're talking about was a '63 Ford convertible or, for example, a purple '63 Ford hardtop with yellow racing stripes... But no such luck, evidently he or she was driving a run-of-the-mill '63 Ford hardtop. Oh, well... Good luck... --Tommy G. __________________________

________________________________ Charlie, "There" "you" "go," "again!" --Thomas P.S. Have a nice big turkey sandwich for lunch today. They say turkey is high in L-Tryptopan (sp?), a "natural" "sedative"... _______________________________

__________________________________ Fascinating stuff, Bernice. Thanks for posting that link! Not only has left-handed Lt. Pitzer's "suicide" has always seemed suspicious (a self-inflicted shot to the right temple by a left-handed man? gimmie a break), but it also appears that he somehow managed to shoot himself twice in the head with a .45 cal revolver-- once in the right side (from at least 3 feet away-- no powder burns or residue) and once again in the left side of his skull for good measure, I suppose. Also fascinating is the evidence that he may very well have electronically "captured" (and later transferred to film) the videotaping (on a system set up for medical-student training) from Walter Reed to Bethesda, the altering of the wounds which was very likely being performed on JFK at Walter Reed Hospital. Then, JFK's mutilated corpse was delivered in a shipping casket right across the street to Bethesda Naval Hospital (some 30 minutes before Jackie escorted the ornate-but-empty casket taken off of Air Force One to Bethesda). And the rest, as they say, is (Warren Commission) history... One reason I find it so damn plausible is that it fits in very nicely with David Lifton's theories and conclusions. No wonder Lt. Pitzer was "suicided." --Thomas __________________________________ if I had a buck for every real suicide I handled at Homicide that family and others thought were a homicide I could probably buy an island somewhere-everything I read about Pitzer's tells me it was a suicide and I've seen no convincing evidence he was left-handed. we keep getting sent on a snipe hunt and I wonder if its not on purpose-was there a conspirarcy-yes? but let's focus on who had the power to coverup-it wasn't the Mafia and it was not the extreme right wing. _________________________ I'm sure you're right, Evan. Pitzer killed himself... --Thomas _________________________

________________________________ Interesting question, John. I haven't read Larry Hancock's "Someone Would Have Talked" yet, but his website has some interesting photos of Steve Wilson juxtaposed next to photos of LHO so that one can see the strong facial resemblence between them. I think Larry is suggesting that Wilson might have been impersonated Oswald at some time or other... Interesting. --Thomas ________________________________

_____________________________ "Relax," "Charlie." I "agree" with "you." --Thomas _____________________________

_________________________________ Funny. _________________________________

__________________________________ Fascinating stuff, Bernice. Thanks for posting that link! Not only has left-handed Lt. Pitzer's "suicide" has always seemed suspicious (a self-inflicted shot to the right temple by a left-handed man? gimmie a break), but it also appears that he somehow managed to shoot himself twice in the head with a .45 cal revolver-- once in the right side (from at least 3 feet away-- no powder burns or residue) and once again in the left side of his skull for good measure, I suppose. Also fascinating is the evidence that he may very well have electronically "captured" (and later transferred to film) the videotaping (on a system set up for medical-student training) from Walter Reed to Bethesda, the altering of the wounds which was very likely being performed on JFK at Walter Reed Hospital. Then, JFK's mutilated corpse was delivered in a shipping casket right across the street to Bethesda Naval Hospital (some 30 minutes before Jackie escorted the ornate-but-empty casket taken off of Air Force One to Bethesda). And the rest, as they say, is (Warren Commission) history... One reason I find it so damn plausible is that it fits in very nicely with David Lifton's theories and conclusions. No wonder Lt. Pitzer was "suicided." --Thomas __________________________________

_______________________________ (go buckeyes) _______________________________

_______________________________________ Interesting question, Chuck. I don't know if he said this twice, once, or... --Thomas _______________________________________

This is tangential, but in the Willis photo I notice the motorcycle cops' cycles did not have their brake lights on. So the limo stop probably has not yet occurred. Kathy _______________________________________ I would still like to know whether or not there are any photos showing David F. Powers filming from the Queen Mary after it turned onto Elm Street. This is an important and timely question, given the fact that John Simkin recently received an e-mail saying that Powers had captured some critically important images during the actual shooting... Thanks, --Thomas _______________________________________

___________________________ John, Would you please clarify a bit? 1) Who is "Oliver?" Revilo P. Oliver? 2) What do you mean when you say, "Oliver's exhibit four?" 3) What do you mean by "a Walker talker?" A spokesman for Walker? (I've already learned a bit about Ned Touchstone and his periodical "The Councilor" by doing some googling. For example, I'm aware that Touchstone made a speech, with General Walker (Ret), from the Louisiana State Capitol steps to a crowd of some 8,000 people...) Thanks, --Thomas __________________________

____________________________________ Are there any photos showing anyone filming from the "Queen Mary" SS follow-up car after the Elm Street turn? Just curious. Thanks, --Thomas ____________________________________

_____________________________________ Jim. I'd like to see these documents. Could you please put a link to these "commission docs" here on this thread, or otherwise direct me to the appropriate website/database? Thanks, --Thomas _____________________________________

______________________________________ Charlie said that his base was put on alert after the assassination, though not for very long... --Thomas ______________________________________

Hi James, I wonder if this speech on October 28th was similar to the speech Dulles gave after the assassination at Harvard Law School Forum on December 18th, 1963. The 56-minute speech is online at Black Op. The program opens with a short introduction by a moderator: Date: December 13, 1963 Title: "The Role of Intelligence in Policy Making" Speaker: Allen W. Dulles - Former Director, CIA Panel: Thomas Schelling - Professor of Economics, Harvard Milton Katz - Director of International Legal Studies, Harvard Law School Here is the RealPlayer URL provided by Black Op Radio http://www.blackopradio.com/black252b.ram Dulles had just recently published "The Craft of Intelligence. Peter Fokes _________________________________________ Peter, Was Dulles' speech at Harvard given on the 13th or on the 18th of December, 1963? Thanks, --Thomas _________________________________________

__________________________________ James, Do you know when and where this photo was taken? Just curious, --Thomas __________________________________