Thomas Graves

_______________________________ The ground? --Thomas _______________________________ Thomas, Surely 'they' are too high up to be standing on the ground? Eugene ____________________________ Eugene, I don't think so because I think the "grape stake" fence was only 5'6" or so high. I might be wrong, of course... --Thomas P.S. Keep up the good work! ____________________________

_______________________________ The ground? --Thomas _______________________________

****************** Yes Jack ,very very odd.......only a few more to go...I am thinking..?. Robin thanks for the recall of Gehard Egars name, he has provided an appreciated service.. Now I almost hesitated to post these.. ....as the last that you have is showing whatever, light ? fixture ?..on the right hand corner of the top of the building, is not shown in the Dillard which was taken immediately, in fact if memory serves me within seconds..? Also not in the Jerry Cablucks, when he went for his helicopter ride that afternoon, and took the next two......from the air.....????? B.... Light pole at the corner of main and houston. Two more similar light fittings shown to the left of the TEXAS sighn, and at the top left of the image. Eugene. Sorry if i side tracked your thread somewhat. ____________________________________ Great "catches," Robin. I think there is at least one more of those light "fittings" visible farther down the street, on the left-hand side of the street, in the bottom photo.... FWIW, --Thomas ____________________________________ Thanks Thomas. You are correct, there appears to be approx (8) or so fittings on BOTH sideS of the street running down towards Dealey Plaza __________________________ Yep... Side note-- great shot of LBJ's "driver's side door" being open while the car was moving. I read somewhere that that's what that particular SS detail always did. Interesting, if true. If not true, then the fact they did it in Dallas is even more interesting... I don't want to hijack this thread. Is there another thread that addresses this "open door" issue? Thanks, --Thomas __________________________

****************** Yes Jack ,very very odd.......only a few more to go...I am thinking..?. Robin thanks for the recall of Gehard Egars name, he has provided an appreciated service.. Now I almost hesitated to post these.. ....as the last that you have is showing whatever, light ? fixture ?..on the right hand corner of the top of the building, is not shown in the Dillard which was taken immediately, in fact if memory serves me within seconds..? Also not in the Jerry Cablucks, when he went for his helicopter ride that afternoon, and took the next two......from the air.....????? B.... Light pole at the corner of main and houston. Two more similar light fittings shown to the left of the TEXAS sighn, and at the top left of the image. Eugene. Sorry if i side tracked your thread somewhat. ____________________________________ Great "catches," Robin. I think there is at least one more of those light "fittings" visible farther down the street, on the left-hand side of the street, in the bottom photo.... FWIW, --Thomas ____________________________________

__________________ Bump. __________________

___________________________________________ John, I can totally understand that. After all, you are a very busy man and you can't be expected to catch everything, can you now? Now, if you were to re-read my Forum-required "biography," you could refreshen your memory and realize that I never claimed to be a researcher. I did state, however, that I hoped "to learn a lot about the assassination" (which I have), "and to ask the occasional question, and to perhaps even make some small contribution from time-to-time." (Or words to that effect.) Now regarding the last point, above, I would like to remind you of my insignificant little stab at "serious research" which involved contacting the director of the alumni association of a high school which, it turned out, one "Larry Florer" attended in Dallas in the late 1950's, and "charming" her (lol!!!) into looking up in the appropriate "year book," scanning, and e-mailing to me "Larry Florer's" senior-year picture which James was kind enough to post for technically-challenged me on this Forum. Especially kind of James to do, since the photo of this real-life Larry Florer tended to challenge his previously-held belief, and the belief of many other assassination researchers (and, yes, even little 'ol me!) that the "drunk guy" who who was arrested right after the assassination for being in the (Dal-Tex?) building under very suspicious circumstances and who claimed to be "Larry Florer," really was Larry Florer and not, "unfortunately," one Theodore "Ted" Shackley, aka the "Blond Ghost" (nor the mysterious INTERPEN member, Edmund "Ed" Kolby). At least that's what seemed to be the consensus among the few people who responded to that very insignificant bit of "research" on my part. (Personally, I'm not convinced that the "drunk guy" wasn't Shackley or Kolby! How ironic!!) I also remember asking you to ask "The Undercover Agent" you made us aware of on the "Edwin P. Wilson" thread whether or not he knew anything about an acquaintance of mine by the name of Lt. Col. Verner R. Carlson (Ret), and his possible former relationship, in so many words, with Paul Ogg (who worked for Morales in "Operation Phoenix"). Oh, and I almost forgot... I posted (or was it in a private message/e-mail to ________ ?) the fact that I'd asked my father to ask his buddy Gen. Victor "Brute" Krulak (Ret) whether or not he remembered writing the letter to Prouty in which he confirmed Prouty's suspicions that the suspicious-looking "suit" passing by the "three tramps" was Edward Lansdale, and whether or not Krulak could be persuaded by photograohic evidence that the "suit" might have been Gen. Maxwell Turner, instead of Lansdale.. Well, I tried, folks. All I was able to get out of my father was, "I asked 'Brute,' and he said he vaguely remembered writing the letter to Prouty, and said that Prouty was a 'good guy,' and that Lansdale was a 'bad guy,'" and then several weeks later when I asked my father whether or not he had ever gotten around to asking Krulak the second question, he said "Well, Thomas, 'Brute' seemed so irritated about being asked about the letter to Prouty that I decided that I wasn't going to jeopardize my relationship with him by asking him about this "Is-It-Lansdale-Or-Is-It Turner" question of yours. Sorry, 'Big T," I'm just not going to do it." Regarding my meager attempts at research, unfortunately that's all I can remember at the moment, probably because that's all there is!!.... In my post I said "erstwhile" researchers and "erstwhile" moderators are creating new threads having to do with swearing, the Kent State massacre (and, obviously, this very same thread dealing with all of the political and social and possible conspiratorial (lol) aspects the recent tragic killing spree at Virginia Tech. (By the way, I suppose that someone must have recently posted the fact that Frank Sturgis attended Virginia Tech for awhile? If so, sorry to bring it up here. If not, ...) Now, I got a confession and an apology and an explanation for you: when I used the word "erstwhile," I was actually thinking of the word "earnest!" Doh. Big boo-boo on my part. Given that fact, and given the fact that I never claimed that I was a researcher or a "researcher," I do hope you feel better now. Sincerely, --Thomas ________________________________________ (Bump.) Uh-hem!.. OK now, folks, let's back on topic here- philosophizing and moralizing about the shortcoming of the twisted gun-loving and violence-ridden kultur here in 'Merika! (Yeah!) ________________________________________

From Post #1 this thread, so ya gotta go there to see the photos James posted for me on 1/18/07. Too bad the other photos that used to be on this thread have since disappeared. Very interesting thread, IMHO. I suggest that everyone read it or re-read it... ------------------------------------------------- ______________________________ bump....... ______________________________

_________________________________ Excellent point Charlie. --Thomas _________________________________

Don, thank you for engaging in a debate about the causes. There is not much USA hating going on at all on this forum, IMO, certainly not of Joe and Jane Doe. There is an ongoing attempt to understand "why?" are things as they are? It shouldn't be taken personally. These are the state of affairs, simple. Much of it is very disturbing to many across the globe. In the case of the USA even more so given the disproportionate concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a tiny minority that the majority seems incapable of restraining. Why? My country of choice (Australia) also has a terrible history in the treatment of Natives and Immigrants. There are similar debates going on here. However there is a long tradition of powerful moderating influences of a labor union based Party that at the moment dominates the states and is likely to win federal power as well, admittedly under a more middle of the road leader. I suggest the lack of such an established nation wide left grouping due to the McArthy era and after is something that is missing. It of course is up to USA citizens to sort out. _____________ Looking for a Hero In Virginia Tech: Someone who stayed behind and put up resistance, Liviu Librescu, a jew, a holocaust survivor. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiat...u.librescu.html “As someone who has survived a terror attack myself, I would like to say that the decision to stay put and save others when your own life is in danger goes against every human instinct; it is heroism and self-sacrifice on a scale that is unimaginable and that cannot even be fully appreciated by most human beings. For a (Holocaust) survivor to give up his life after two decades of peace and quiet in the most pastoral of settings is a tragedy for his family, and for all of us.” ________________________________ I'm starting to believe that the evil and extremely clever CIA created (through programs like MK/ULTRA and MOCKINGBIRD) 1) the phenomenon of socially-inappropriate swearing on a world-wise basis, and 2) the alarming phenomena, exclusive to the USA, of pathological gun-love and the ever-present, lightening-fast, totally irrational tendency of we "ugly" Americans to resort to physical violence and, if we still "Can't get no satisfaction," then, well heck-- spree killing, particularly, as I suggested, in the United States of America but also, as one highly esteemed "ex patriot" American member of the forum has recently pointed out, in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc etc etc etc, where we Americans absolutely love to go on spree killings on a massive scale..... yes uhh,... OK, well why would the CIA do this to us? Well, gosh, I guess for the purpose of causing the creation of certain "threads," on this forum (by erstwhile assassination researchers and/or moderators)-- threads like uhh... this one! and the "Swearing" thread and the "Kent State" thread, and, and..... OK, why? For the distracting of the assassination research community from what they do best: researching.... But then I'm being hypocritical here aren't I, due to the simple fact that that I'm posting this, thereby participating in the perpetuation of this (distracting?) thread... Oh well, I'm finished for now on this "thread," so I guess I'll mosey on over to the "swearing" thread to see if anyone's posted anything funny on it since I last looked at it (ten minutes ago), or at least to see if anyone is "lurking" there, and if so, how many. lol "Hasta la vista, baby," --Thomas ________________________________ La Bamba, I mean La Bump-a..... ________________________________

___________________________________ Mark, I think that what Hunt told St. John in 2003 was a sort of limited-hangout deathbed confession unburdening-of-the-heart attempt to set history "right" in a limited-hangout sort of way. IMHO, it's important information for assassination researchers, no matter how we look at it or what kind of spin we might want to put on Hunt's spin.... Why limited hangout? Form of habit, I suppose and so-called "second nature," on Hunt's part. --Thomas ___________________________________ ----------- bump -----------

Don, thank you for engaging in a debate about the causes. There is not much USA hating going on at all on this forum, IMO, certainly not of Joe and Jane Doe. There is an ongoing attempt to understand "why?" are things as they are? It shouldn't be taken personally. These are the state of affairs, simple. Much of it is very disturbing to many across the globe. In the case of the USA even more so given the disproportionate concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a tiny minority that the majority seems incapable of restraining. Why? My country of choice (Australia) also has a terrible history in the treatment of Natives and Immigrants. There are similar debates going on here. However there is a long tradition of powerful moderating influences of a labor union based Party that at the moment dominates the states and is likely to win federal power as well, admittedly under a more middle of the road leader. I suggest the lack of such an established nation wide left grouping due to the McArthy era and after is something that is missing. It of course is up to USA citizens to sort out. _____________ Looking for a Hero In Virginia Tech: Someone who stayed behind and put up resistance, Liviu Librescu, a jew, a holocaust survivor. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiat...u.librescu.html “As someone who has survived a terror attack myself, I would like to say that the decision to stay put and save others when your own life is in danger goes against every human instinct; it is heroism and self-sacrifice on a scale that is unimaginable and that cannot even be fully appreciated by most human beings. For a (Holocaust) survivor to give up his life after two decades of peace and quiet in the most pastoral of settings is a tragedy for his family, and for all of us.” ________________________________ I'm starting to believe that the evil and extremely clever CIA created (through programs like MK/ULTRA and MOCKINGBIRD) 1) the phenomenon of socially-inappropriate swearing, and 2) the alarming phenomena, exclusive to the USA, of pathological gun-love and the ever-present, lightening-fast, totally irrational tendency of we "ugly" Americans to resort to physical violence and, if we still "Can't get no satisfaction," then, well-- spree killing, particularly, as I suggested, in the United States of America but also, as one highly esteemed "ex patriot" American member of the forum has recently pointed out, in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc etc etc etc, where we Americans absolutely love to go on spree killings on a massive scale..... Well, why would the CIA do this to us? Well, gosh, I guess for the purpose of causing the creation of certain "threads," on this forum (by erstwhile assassination researchers and/or moderators)-- threads like the "Swearing" thread and the "Kent State" thread. Why? For the distracting of the assassination research community from what they do best: researching.... But then I'm being hypocritical here aren't I, due to the simple fact that that I'm posting this here, thereby participating in the perpetuation of this distracting thread! Oh well, I'm finished for now on this "thread," so I guess I'll mosey on over to the "swearing" thread to see if anyone's posted anything funny on it since I last looked at it (ten minutes ago), or at least to see if anyone is "lurking" there, and if so, how many. lol "Hasta la vista, baby," --Thomas ________________________________

___________________________________ Mark, I think that what Hunt told St. John was a limited-hangout deathbed confession unburdening of the heart attempt to set history "right." IMHO, it's important information for assassination researchers, no matter how we look at it or what kind of spin we might want to put on Hunt's spin.... --Thomas ___________________________________

____________________________ I agree. And if they come up with results with which we cannot accept, not to worry-- we can always accuse them of working for the CIA! lol --Thomas ____________________________

If this is the cover letter to your resume submission you're most definitely not going to be a finalist. __________________________________ Oh, Draught! , I mean Drat! I mean I mean.... Oh, @#$%$#@%$#@#$#@ !!!!! __________________________________

_________________________ Wow. Can't wait to see the photo! _________________________

__________________ Good question __________________

_______________________________ Mark, Try to imagine the possibility that E. Howard Hunt believed that he was dying in August of 2003. OK, good, now imagine the possibility that Hunt might have been open, at that point in his life, to having some sort of reconciliation with his (inquisitive) long-estranged "loser" oldest son to whom he may have felt a moral (or guilt-based or "ethical" or love-based or "whatever") obligation, for lack of a better word, to thank or express gratitude to in some way for 1) having been his oldest son in the first place and, 2) having put up with the Hunt's almost total neglect and/or abuse, and/or 3 helping him dispose of some very self-incriminating Watergate break-in evidence [and convey on his person a huge some of cash when he (Hunt) had been in straits quite dire]? Hmm?.... Good, now can you imagine that Hunt somehow knew a lot about the conspiracy to assassinate JFK before it happened? Obviously. OK, now imagine that Hunt, believing he was dying, wanted to "unburden his soul" just a bit by telling this same neglected inquisitive loser son of his what he knew about the conspiracy to assassinate JFK.... Good, now don't you agree that it is reasonable to assume that Hunt didn't necessarily tell his son everything he knew about the conspiracy to assassinate JFK? OK, now just imagine that you are Hunt's son and that your father (Hunt) has recently died. Wouldn't you (Hunt's hypothetical son) feel compelled, for whatever reason, to make it publicly known what your father had told you? OK, now if you were this son of Hunt's and was basically unemployable due to your long drug-related criminal record, would you consider revealing to the world what your father (Hunt) had told you about the assassination, regardless of what people might think of your possible motives and your down-and-out, "loser" past? If so, would you do it only on the condition that you receive no money for your story (in order to prove to skeptical nay-sayers that what you were revealing just had to be true because you weren't trying to make any filthy filthy lucre on "the scoop"), or would you say to yourself, "The heck with Mark Valenti and skeptical nay-sayers of his ilk-- I can kill two or three birds with one stone here! Most importantly, I can tell the world what my father knew about the assassination. Also I can make a few bucks on this and (heaven forbid) might even become famous, (which neither Mark Valenti nor his nemesis Thomas Graves have any chance whatsoever of ever becoming!..." ? (lol) Now, do you think the last two "objectives" are necessarily incompatible with the first one, i.e. trying to make a potentially huge contribution to modern American history? Thanks, --Thomas P.S. Would you rather that St. John not have come forward at all? ________________________________ ____________________ bump P.S. Interesting that A.J. felt compelled to "scream" at us, by using all upper-case letters in the thread title, to get our attention. Come on, A.J., we truly "love" you and we all know that what you have to say is seriously worth reading!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Next time, could you please "tone it down" a bit? --Thanks! ____________________ ____________________

_______________________________ Mark, Try to imagine the possibility that E. Howard Hunt believed that he was dying in August of 2003. OK, good, now imagine the possibility that Hunt might have been open, at that point in his life, to having some sort of reconciliation with his (inquisitive) long-estranged "loser" oldest son to whom he may have felt a moral (or guilt-based or "ethical" or love-based or "whatever") obligation, for lack of a better word, to thank or express gratitude to in some way for 1) having been his oldest son in the first place and, 2) having put up with the Hunt's almost total neglect and/or abuse, and/or 3 helping him dispose of some very self-incriminating Watergate break-in evidence [and convey on his person a huge some of cash when he (Hunt) had been in straits quite dire]? Hmm?.... Good, now can you imagine that Hunt somehow knew a lot about the conspiracy to assassinate JFK before it happened? Obviously. OK, now imagine that Hunt, believing he was dying, wanted to "unburden his soul" just a bit by telling this same neglected inquisitive loser son of his what he knew about the conspiracy to assassinate JFK.... Good, now don't you agree that it is reasonable to assume that Hunt didn't necessarily tell his son everything he knew about the conspiracy to assassinate JFK? OK, now just imagine that you are Hunt's son and that your father (Hunt) has recently died. Wouldn't you (Hunt's hypothetical son) feel compelled, for whatever reason, to make it publicly known what your father had told you? OK, now if you were this son of Hunt's and was basically unemployable due to your long drug-related criminal record, would you consider revealing to the world what your father (Hunt) had told you about the assassination, regardless of what people might think of your possible motives and your down-and-out, "loser" past? If so, would you do it only on the condition that you receive no money for your story (in order to prove to skeptical nay-sayers that what you were revealing just had to be true because you weren't trying to make any filthy filthy lucre on "the scoop"), or would you say to yourself, "The heck with Mark Valenti and skeptical nay-sayers of his ilk-- I can kill two or three birds with one stone here! Most importantly, I can tell the world what my father knew about the assassination. Also I can make a few bucks on this and (heaven forbid) might even become famous, (which neither Mark Valenti nor his nemesis Thomas Graves have any chance whatsoever of ever becoming!..." ? (lol) Now, do you think the last two "objectives" are necessarily incompatible with the first one, i.e. trying to make a potentially huge contribution to modern American history? Thanks, --Thomas P.S. Would you rather that St. John not have come forward at all? ________________________________

If this is the cover letter to your resume submission you're most definitely not going to be a finalist. __________________________________ Oh, Draught! , I mean Drat! __________________________________

If this is the cover letter to your resume submission you're most definitely not going to be a finalist.

_________________________ Gary, That was thoroughly enjoyable! [Probably because I'm mostly Irish (Mahon) in ancestry lol.] If I lived in England and you were a sports journalist (which I suspect you are), I'm sure that reading your columns would keep a smile on face from day to day regardless of the less-than-San Diego-like weather I've heard that you are subject to from time to time to time.... Cheers! --Thomas _________________________

_________________________________ You're absolutely right, John. In fact my controller has just told me on my myspace account that his colleagues at The Agency have been literally rolling on the floors in (ironically) uncontrollable, hysterical laughter for the last couple of days. And no, it doesn't have anything to do with.... --Thomas G. P.S. Sorry about your team's getting relegated... _________________________________

__________________ Chris, I don't know if any of Hunt's children have (very recently; i.e. since his death) "denied that he was with them on the day of the assassination," but regardless-- many years ago Attorney Mark Lane was able to trip him up under oath on the question of why he (Hunt) had testified that he had had to remind his children that he had been at home watching TV with them that day, and as a result the jury overturned the very large monetary judgment which Hunt had won in his earlier libel suit against Liberty Lobby, the publisher of "The Spotlight." Hunt was lucky that he didn't screw up in court more than he did, otherwise he probably would have been brought up on the charges of perjury, and yes, convicted... If you haven't already read it, I highly suggest that you read Lane's book "Plausible Denial." --Thomas