Thomas Graves

________________________________________________ Fascinating capture, Chris. Damn. Does anyone know how many seconds this is after Z313? Thanks, --Thomas ________________________________________________

The single most shameful and contemptible post I've yet seen on an assassination website. _______________________________ Paul, I agree. --Thomas _______________________________

Chauncy Holt reportedly delivered to Dallas some custom-loaded ammunition. Some of them were short rounds. Could this be so that the MC bullet would have just enough power to enter Kennedy's back and lodge there so that everyone could find it and identify it as the "magic bullet?" -- Just a thought. -- Bill Grote _____________________________________ Bill, IMHO, excellent idea. --Thomas _____________________________________

That is Ed Kolby on the left and Howard K. Davis on the right. James _______________________________ James, Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking that if it really was Florer and Davis together in a photo, it would make no sense, unless Florer for some strange reason wanted to "incriminate" himself... Thanks, --Thomas _______________________________

___________________________________ Bernice, Thanks! --T. ___________________________________

___________________________________ Mark, Just "thinking out loud" here-- In post #1, if the man on the left is also the guy in the photos on the right, I wonder why he's not wearing his hat? Disguising by revealing? Or do the photos on the right show him at a later time? Sincerely, --Thomas __________________________________

What's disappointing is that the Dallas police were so busy arresting all the wrong people (Lee Harvey Oswald, Larry Florer, Jim Braden, Donald House, and a bunch of railroad hobos). The only killer they caught that weekend was Jack Ruby, and he didn't give them any choice. _____________________________________ Ron, I couldn't agree with you more, but would add that everyone you mention was an "actor" at some point or other, and some were much more witting than others... (I must confess that I must read up on D. House...) Perhaps Florer (like LHO?) was somehow manipulated into playing the "role" that he did, without his realizing it... As someone said, DP was full of teams, actors, spooks, and people in the know who wanted to witness the big show... Sincerely, --Thomas _____________________________________

__________________________________________ Ron, Aren't you disappointed (I know I am) that the Dealey Plaza "Larry Florer" really was who he claimed to be? Sincerely, --Thomas P.S. If anyone wants to verify that a Mrs. Gladys H. Florer was living at 3609 Potomac Avenue in Dallas (the same address Larry Florer claimed in the statement he gave on 11/22/63), they can google '3609 POTOMAC' and FLORER (at the same time), scroll down to the fourth one on the "hit list" titled "RootsWeb: HOOVER-L Rudolph Huber", click on cached, and scroll down to the bottom. That's how I did it. (I think Gladys is/was probably Larry's mother...) FWIW, --Thomas __________________________________________

Yes. Given the resemblance and the same name, why should it be questioned? The difference between them can be attributed to the time between the two photos. __________________________________ Ron, I guess that settles it-- the guy claiming to be "Larry Florer" who gave a sworn statement saying that he had gone into the DalTex building shortly after the assassination to use a telephone was not Ted Shackley or Edmund Kolby after all but was, really, a guy by the name of Larry Florer who graduated from Highland Park High School (a mile from the 3609 Potomac Avenue address claimed by him in his sworn statement of 11/22/63) in 1958... That's gotta be a "first" for suspects in the assassination of JFK: someone who actually turns out to be who they claimed to be.... --Thomas _________________________________

____________________________________ Ron, Do you think the two pictures that James posted for me are of the same guy? --Thomas P.S. Somehow I just knew you'd be the next person to "weigh in" on this... (lol) ____________________________________

_______________________________________ James, What exactly are the similarities between the two photos that make you think that they are the same guys? Sincerely, --Thomas _______________________________________

DP

I have to wonder what one hopes to gain in reading a book by a CIA thug. Since their "job" was to murder and lie (which tend to go hand in hand), how could anyone trust a word that's said in a book written by one of them? __________________________________________ Myra Myra Myra, Even the worst criminal will occasionally tell bits of the truth or get "caught up" in his lies by telling a lie that tellingly contradicts a previous lie... __________________________________________

____________________________________ Pat, You are both right and wrong. You are correct in saying that "The preeminent race track near San Diego... is [the] Del Mar [Turf Club] [in Del Mar, California]. However, Murchison's Hotel Del Charro (closed for the last few years and recently razed to the ground for some sort of development), where Hoover and his boyfriend Tolson stayed every summer during the Del Mar racing season, was in the luxurious, glamorous, coastal community of La Jolla which is twelve miles north of downtown San Diego and about ten miles south of the community of Del Mar. I should know-- I was raised in L.J. --Thomas P.S. My dad told me that he once saw Hoover and Tolson together at the races in Del Mar. ____________________________________

_____________________________________________ Bowers said he saw two men standing near each other behind the picket fence before the shooting and that one of them was wearing a plaid shirt or jacket. Well, maybe he saw "Florer" and "Florer" simply put his rain coat on after the shooting to hide the jacket. If I remember correctly, "Florer" did say in his sworn statement on 11/22 that he went to the railroad tracks after the shooting (and before he went to the 3rd floor of one of the DP buildings to use a phone). The photo of "Florer" (post #11 above) is the first time I've noticed such a plaid jacket in the vicinity of the assassination on 11/22/63. Bowers' statement makes me wonder why a possible conspirator would wear such a "loud" item of clothing at the scene of the crime (and it must have been a relatively "loud" for Bowers to have even noticed that it was a plaid from where he was). Maybe it was so he could be easily identified by co-conspirators... All he had to do was put his raincoat on afterwards. BTW, I recently rented "The Murder of JFK: A Revisionist History" from Blockbuster online, and it has about 6 seconds of excellent footage of "Florer" being arrested. When I saw "Florer's" double chin, I came to the realization that he was probably older than the 23 years that he claimed to be.... Also on the same DVD is some more excellent footage of Oswald surrounded by people, including the police, after his confrontation on the sidewalk with some anti-Castro Cubans over his handing out of "Fair Play for Cuba" pamphlets. What's really interesting to me is that a tall, dark-complected man, very athetically built and wearing a suit or a sportscoat can be seen in the very near foreground walking in the general direction of Oswald as Oswald is walking towards him. Oswald seems to look at him in the face as they get relatively close to each other. I think the man has something hidden under his coat in the middle of his back and I have a feeling that the man just might be David Morales. You can't miss the guy I'm talking about-- his back is to the camera the whole time and he scratches the back of his neck with one of the fingers on his right hand... Comments, anyone? Feel free to start a new thread if you think it's warranted. FWIW, Thomas _____________________________________________

______________________________________________ Even though the cops are carrying shotguns, I've often wondered if they weren't the shooters or helpers and if the "tramps" weren't the ones doing the "escorting" (in order to create plausible deniability for the cops). --Thomas ______________________________________________ ______________________________________________ Comments, anyone? --Thomas ______________________________________________ Bump ______________________________________________

___________________________________ Hopefully not under the supervision of Gordon Novel... --Thomas ___________________________________

___________________________________________________ Well Mr Plumlee, What do you have to say for yourself? (lol) --Thomas ___________________________________________________ Thomas: New Years Eve is over, time to put away the demon rum Dawn ____________________________________ Dawn, Rum?! Hell, I been a-drinkin' Everclear. Just like them SS guys was a-doin' at The Cellar... Happy New Year's!!. --Thomas ____________________________________

___________________________________________________ Well Mr Plumlee, What do you have to say for yourself? (lol) --Thomas ___________________________________________________

__________________________________ Robin and James, Thanks for "weighing in." I agree with both of you, and I definitely think the guy strolling down the knoll with his left hand up to his ear was one of the conspirators... --Thomas __________________________________

____________________________________________ Does anyone besides me think that the points I tried to make in this earlier post are more important than whether or not the person completely inside the red oval (n the upper of the two photos) with hands on hips is a man or a woman??? (FWIW, I think it's a man. lol ) --Thomas ____________________________________________

____________________________________ Ed, If you're referring to the person who is completely inside the oval you drew and who has hands on hips, IMHO that's a man. If you're referring to the person who is only 1/3- 1/2 inside the oval and who is farther down the knoll and to the right of the guy we've been talking about, IMHO that's probably a man, too, because he/she seems to be wearing a man's hat. --Thomas ____________________________________

_____________________________________ Ed, I'm in a quandry in that, although I think you've done us a great service by posting both of these photos at the same time (showing a dark-complected guy carrying something under his jacket in both of them, and something squarish sticking out of his back right pocket under his shirt in the first one), for the life of me I don't see "a couple" (defined as this guy and a woman together?) in either of the photos. What do you mean in the context of these photos by a "couple?" Maybe I should get some stronger glasses. LOL Thanks, --Thomas _____________________________________

_______________________________________ Ed, Great post. Although I can't make out a "couple" in the second photo, I do want to thank you for posting both photos at the same time. I for one never realized that the same guy is in both of them. In the first photo, not only does it look like he's carrying something sizeable and rigid under his jacket, but there seems to be something sticking up out of his right rear pocket which is concealed by his untucked-in shirt, and he looks like he might even be talking into or listening to a walkie-talkie/radio in his left hand! Speaking of untucked-in shirts, I think this is the only guy I've seen a photo of who was in Dealy Plaza right before or right after the asassination whose shirt wasn't tucked in. Maybe back in '63 in conservative Dallas, it was considered to be in "bad taste" or evidence of an uncultured upbringing to wear one's shirt untucked-in, especially in the presence of the President and his beautiful wife? If my theory is correct, then maybe the only reason this guy was walking around with his shirt untucked-in, at the risk of appearing rather boorish, was to conceal something, perhaps something very much like that which is easy to discern, as pointed out by Ron Ecker in another thread, in the photos of "Dark Complected Man" (DCM) walking down the sidewalk after sitting next to "Umbrella Man" on the curb, talking into a walkie-talkie/radio as he sits there looking down Elm Street after the "hit." Hmmm... If this guy in the two photos you posted was a conspirator, then maybe he and the guys he's shown talking with in the second photo aren't American "Negroes" after all, but dark-complected Cubans instead? Or even better, maybe he's "mingling" for a few minutes with some Afro-Americans in order to blend in and, so to speak, "disappear?" It's interesting to note that the bottoms of the guy's jeans(?) legs seem to be rolled up, making impromptu cuffs as if he's really poor or a real "hick." Maybe his controller told him to do that do that, in order to "complement" the goucheness of his untucked-in shirt, thereby making the concealing of the thing in his back pocket somehow less obvious??? Thanks, --Thomas _______________________________________