James DiEugenio

Now, since I showed FC that Calloway is not the witness he makes him out to be, let me deal with what he discounts: the radio log messages. Here are the questions they pose, which FC wants to ignore. First, why did it take three passes to get anything like a complete account of the messages? Why did the officers listening to the messages fail to find the one directing Tippit to Oak Cliff even though they had two weeks to do so? If both Nelson and Tippit were directed to Oak Cliff on one message, why did Nelson go to Dealey Plaza instead? Murray Jackson, in a private interview, later said that he sent Tippit and Nelson there because because there was a drainage of officers from the area. But 1.) There was an officer there already, Mentzel, and 2.) There was no crime in process reported there at the time, 3.) There was no direct acknowledgement of the order, you know like "Copy". Why did the WC never interview Nelson in order to ask him why he apparently disobeyed the order to go to Oak Cliff? Why did the WC never interview Jackson to explain why he sent them to Oak Cliff? So please FC do not claim that somehow the Tippit case shows that Oswald shot Kennedy because he shot Tippit. Something was askew here and that is why the WC did not investigate it. For fear of what they would discover. As attorney Allard Lowenstein said about the RFK case: In my experience, people with nothing to hide don't hide things.

I said this already. A friend of mine asked Frazier this question about three years ago. He said that he could not answer due to the poor quality of the photo. Take that for what you think its worth.

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LOL ROTF Francois: I just flipped open Accessorries After the Fact to p. 258, this is how Meagher quotes Benavides: 1. Callaway had to ask Benavides what had happened. 2. Callaway had to ask him which way the perpetrator fled so he could chase him. That is some witness FC. Callaway also said he never saw Helen Markham at the scene. Would you agree it was hard to miss her in hysterics? Milo Reech and David Josephs are doing some remarkable work on the TIppit case over at DPF. They have gone even beyond the info in my essay. As I said, the TIppit case has been broken open. And I did not even mention Doris Holan.

Bart, I cannot see these can you make a link to your site where you have them?

I agree Ron. Its really struck a nerve. And not just here.

I think John knows about that LA office also. The first time I ever heard the audio to this interrogation, I was just appalled. The way Pena and Hernandez set this up was scripted. Serrano had no attorney, Hank took her out to dinner with a friend of hers and then had the friend leave. And if you don't understand he had intel training by the techniques he uses, you sure do when he makes the reference to the South American president.

I forgot. From information I dug up way back in the nineties, Ferenc Nagy had a home in Dallas at the time of the assassination. In other words, you had board member Shaw living in New Orleans, and Nagy in Big D.

BTW, how long will it take for FC to reply? Oh I forgot, its very late over in gay Paree. Because, those questions I posed are only the beginning for the newest info on the Tippit case. If VB had brought that case up--as he should not have been allowed to do in London-- with all this new info, he would get murdered today.

Do you believe what FC wrote above? If Oswald was so innocent (being "prayer man", having the perfect alibi since he had been outside during the shooting sequence), then try explaining to us why he killed a policeman half an hour later ! Uh, sir, we do not know that at all. To pose just one question: Did you ever call Officer Nelson to ask him why he drove to Dealey Plaza when the order on the radio told him and TIppit to go to central Oak Cliff? And if this was a genuine order, why did it not exist on the first radio transcript the WC got? After all the WC and the DPD were looking for any excuse to place Tippit anywhere near where he was not supposed to be at that time: 10th and Patton. You also might have asked Nelson why he did not directly acknowledge that order, it might explain why the dead TIppit did not either. You could also have looked around to see if there were any crimes in central Oak Cliff that somehow superseded the murder of President Kennedy in importance. (I kind of doubt it.) And BTW, all of the above is in Henry Hurt's book which dates from decades ago. (pp. 161-63) You might also ask Howard Willens of the WC why they never deposed Murray Jackson, the actual broadcaster for the DPD. Now, if there was no emergency to move into that area, then that may explain the rather bizarre order that came across nine minutes later, "You will be at large for any emergency that comes in." This is about 25 minutes after JFK has been shot. And they have not found anyone culpable for the crime. Now, guess what, the third time was the charm. The third transcript, produced in April, did finally have replies to the order. But they were not direct replies. They just said where the two men were at that time. Did not explain why they ended up in separate places under the same order. But here is the real puzzler: there already was an officer in Oak Cliff. His name was William Mentzel. Now look in the volumes and find where the WC interviewed Mentzel or Nelson. And I should add, the weird order about being at large for any emergency that comes in, that was only sent to Tippit. (The above material is from McBride's work on the TIppit case, Into the Nightmare, pp 421-25. Which I am sure FC has not read.) Let me know where you have addressed all these questions. As I would like to see your answers Mr. Carlier. You may also want to read this https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-tippit-case-in-the-new-millennium The Tippit case has been broken open.

EB: You had a conclusion prior to your assessment of the facts. Right Eddy, just like the Warren Commission had a conclusion prior to hearing the first witness.

Getting back to the point, Frazier changed his story. We also have Lovelady admitting something that appears to put Oswald on the first floor being stopped. And Lovelady perhaps saying LHO was outside at the time of the shooting but he was cut off in mid sentence. Whenever you think the WC cannot get worse, it gets worse. What a sorry joke. I mean after all, it was only the president.

Nice one Vanessa. It indicates pressure was brought to bear does it not?

TK:But isn't it on permanent record at the Sixth Floor Museum that he did later see Oswald? That is true Tony. And it does not matter one bit that Frazier changed his story to these guys. They refuse to acknowledge what that says about Frazier or the WC. And FC's answer to a first generation print of Wiegman or Darnell is utterly priceless. He does not have to see it since he nows already what is on it. HAHAHAHA

Francois, Do you know where a first generation print of Darnell or Weigman is located? If you do, why not secure it? If you do not then what you are doing is sort of like urinating in the wind. You don't know so why say it?

Nice catch Tony. Makes it even more suspicious.

I think Vanessa is correct about the Jarman/Lovelady dispute. Man if you consider what Rob Couteau clipped from above, and Lovelady and Vicki Adams, and now this, I mean that guy had to have known what was going on, at least a little bit.

The problem in these identifications is simple. As Pat Speer has pointed out, there was never any genuine attempt by the FBI to identify who was in those pictures. In a crime of this magnitude, that should have been done in a systematic way. It was not. In fact, it was not even done in a haphazard way as far as I can see. This is why, today, over 50 years later, we are still doing it. This shows you what a joke the WC was. Rankin should have asked them to do this. And this should have been a very early request.

Oh and I forgot to add, according to Metta, Gelli was recruited by Angleton. And the OSS recruited SIndona. (pp. 20-21) These would indicate that there was also a CIA link to P2. Which ties in with what Paul said before in this thread. And isn't that rich about Gelli being at Reagan's inauguration in 1981? Because that was the year the whole P2 scandal broke wide open. Gelli was more or less on the run, escaping prison or being brought up on charges, for about the next 20 years. The Strategy of Tension was an evil plot, was it not? And Gelli once said that only Berlusconi could enact P2's vision in Italy. Sort of like saying only Elliot Abrams can bring democracy to Venezuela. (Boy did he get called out yesterday or what? The ghosts of El Mozote. )

FC: I mean you did read what Bart wrote and assembled right? Now recall, according to both Walt Brown and Bill Simpich, there was a radio announcement that the rifle used in the assassination was an Enfield. Which was the type of rifle Frazier had. After that announcement, Linnie Mae went over to the police at Ruth Paine's home and started this whole story about the bag LHO brought to work that day. A story I examine in my book to show how she could never keep it straight. And how this went on for years on end; recall the whole thing about how did LHO put the bag in the car when Frazier said he locked the doors each night? Frazier then said that, oh that one door lock was broken and that is how it happened. (Boy did Lee Farley snooker DVP on that one. ) And let us never forget: how the heck did she see this happen from where the car was positioned through the slats of a car port? (Todd Vaughn said, but there were spaces between the slats.) To any objective observer, which FC is not, there was all kinds of pressure being brought on Frazier. To the point where he was about to be indicted as part of a plot to kill JFK. I find it interesting that no one has ever been able to find the transcript or the readings on his polygraph. And the DPD did not want to remember that whole scene. According to Jim Bishop's book, Wesley was so unstable during the test they could not get a steady read on him. BTW, when a friend of mine, Al Rossi, asked him about the PM image and showed him the photo, he said that the picture was not clear enough for him to ID who it was.

OK, Francois. I will wait for your reply tomorrow. Try and be ready. Tony, you are stealing my thunder.

Yes that is true, but it was a little later in late 1962 that Harvey went to Rome. I think that CMC might have been there at that time or they might have just been shown the door. But the point is, you had Permindex, P2, Harvey and Angleton all in Italy around the same time. Making a mess of things. And you had Kennedy trying for the opening to the left, which Metta also mentions. Also, according to Metta, Allen Dulles financed the Peace and Freedom party that one of the board members of Permindex was a part of, Giuseppe Pieche. (p. 14)

FC, two hours ago I asked you if you knew what I had written about Wesley Frazier and that weekend. I have been waiting for you to reply. Yes or no?

I thought that one of the most interesting parts of Metta's book was later reinforced by the work of Maurice Phillips. That is the desire of Ferenc Nagy to have Permindex directly associated with the CIA.(Metta, p. 88) Nagy asked the Agency to place an American businessman on the board. He also asked them to place a CIA agent on the staff of Permindex. Or third, having the agent buy stock in the company. Nagy then added that the last was not a sales pitch since the company was well financed. (Through Bloomfield's connections to people like Rockefeller, we know this was the case.) This is interesting because Clay Shaw would fit the bill for the first two requests. Although Shaw was on the board, not a staff member. But he would certainly fulfill request number one. In regards to this, I once had an internal Time/Life memo which said that, through sources in Rome, they had discovered that Shaw was quite active in the early months of the company's organizing in Italy. It was nothing like what he later tried to depict in interviews. If that is so, then it may be part of fulfilling Nagy's request. And let us not forget what FBI agent Regis Kennedy said in private to Barbara Reid: Shaw had done some work for the CIA in Italy over a period of five years. (Destiny Betrayed, second edition, p. 386) And BTW, in another memo that Metta produces, it appears that Foster Dulles was fully aware of all this. (I used to have that one also.)

Great Bart. How about the Livingstone papers?