2 hours ago, Jeff Carter said:

While I assume Cliff was either drunk or overwhelmed by sentimentality when starting this thread, I really don’t mind the sentiment or that my name was initially botched.

Both!  I stand busted...

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The evident condescension and crude label of ”Russiagate Denier” is another matter. Having once been labelled a “hardcore Oswald apologist”, the amusement of being pinned with ridiculous monikers for factually observing that the emperor has no clothes

At Helsinki in '18 Putin admitted his agents in America assisted Trump's election.  You pretend otherwise.

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For those paying attention, recent months have seen information released to confirm the Steele Dossier consisted of, at best, unsubstantiated rumour and, at worst, drunken free association, while also demonstrating that the Mueller investigation, much like the Warren Commission, started from and operated according to predetermined conclusions which were never supported by facts.

Those paying attention know that the Mueller investigation was severely limited from the beginning.

Mueller didn't investigate Trump's finances.  He treated Trump's criminal kids with kid gloves.  He didn't require a face-to-face interview with Trump, allowing written answers full of lies and omissions.  He didn't publicly correct Bill Barr''s misrepresentation of the conclusions of the report.  He gave sodden testimony to the House.

Nothing came of the Mueller investigation, and the Steele Dossier only mattered to comedians.

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Bygones may be bygones, I suppose, but “Russiagate” is responsible for the following extremely negative trends:

1) Financial Times reported yesterday the Biden transition team exhibits not just hostility towards, but has internalized a pitched emotional hatred for the Russian Federation. Coupled with the insistence that under Biden America will re-assume its self-appointed hegemonic posture (aka American Leadership), there is a great chance that something very stupid will occur within months.

Trump pulled out of the Iran nuke deal, slapped crippling sanctions on Iran causing widespread misery among the Iranian people, and assassinated their #2 leader.

How does that not reflect "a self-appointed hegemonic posture"?

Or when Trump moved 800 troops into Somalia and quadrupled civilian deaths by drone strikes?

Or when he sold advanced weaponry to the Saudis to continue the slaughter of Yemanis?

Or when he moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem?

Or broke off Obama's opening to Cuba?

A real peacenik that Trump!

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2) Promotion of context and evidence-free allegations of “Russian meddling” in multiple jurisdictions suggests leadership in Western democracies have completely lost touch with reality. A belief that any narrative can be sold through PR techniques and media repetition is now widespread, and no longer limited to simply a contemptuous notion pitched by Karl Rove (mocking the “reality-based community”).

The inability to recognize Trump's involvement with Putin -- to which Putin stipulated! -- is denialism, pure and simple.

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3) A new precedent has been set, at least now overtly, that the Intelligence and National Security bureaucracies hold veto power over non-vetted politicians even if they should win election.

If Trump hadn't been vetted by hard right-wing financial interests they wouldn't have engineered his installment in the White House.

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4) Monopolist privately-held social media companies can now - without much controversy - censor, de-platform, “fact-check”, and prevent real-time discussion of current events, a dangerous spin into authoritarian models of speech which resulted largely from pressure by America’s liberal intelligentsia.

Which is why Facebook promotes right wing dis-information bubbles.

Why the right wing has a massive advantage on Facebook

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/26/facebook-conservatives-2020-421146

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https://youtu.be/2D-l1MauBmM

 

I thoroughly enjoy debating these issues, Jeff Carter!...I was loaded and delirious when I started this thread...What did I write, Fred Carter?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Carter

There seems to be a bit of hand-wringing on cable news over the fact 40% of the country regards the White House as stolen.

So what?  In 2000 and 2016 40% of us regarded the White House stolen.

We had to just suck it up and carry on, and that’s what the Right will do too.

If the whistleblowers had raised hell during the counting they’d have a leg to stand on.  Now Trump has nothing whether these fraud claims are valid or not.

The media doesn’t’ pick the President?

Since when?

38 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said:

For a bunch of “winners” here, you all seem pretty committed to “debunking” whatever I post.
 

Why are you all still playing defense, I thought Old Joe won?

I know! I feel zero interest in pushing back on what you post.  It’s like those white precincts in Ohio in ‘04 with 127% turn-out. Nothing is going to be done no matter what.

2 hours ago, Robert Wheeler said:

Who drives a red Ferrari to drop off ballots in Detroit at 3:45 AM? 
 

Ok, it was a white van that actually had the ballots. The red Ferrari looks like it was there to let them know, “this” white van.

Nothing good happens after 3:00AM. Words to live by. 
 

In Philly it would have been a bitchin’ Camaro. Even Cliff would agree with that.

Having attended middle school in Bucks County, I’d have to agree.

How Stacey Abrams and her band of believers turned Georgia blue

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/08/stacey-abrams-believers-georgia-blue-434985

<quote>

But something changed in 2018. Abrams’ razor-thin loss in Georgia’s gubernatorial election made clear to her and other liberals in the state that demographic shifts in the suburbs had reached a tipping point. Their argument to the national party was simple: Democrats could win more races by expanding their coalition to include disengaged voters of color, as opposed to continuing the focus on persuading undecided, moderate, often white voters.

Abrams had come close with the strategy: Her campaign and its allies registered more than 200,000 new voters in the run-up to the 2018 election. When Fair Fight and the New Georgia Project, two organizations founded by Abrams, tried again this year, they quadrupled their gains, registering more than 800,000 new voters.

This vast new coalition of first-time voters, many young and of color, put Joe Biden over the top in the state by more than 10,000 votes as of early Sunday. The expected win in Georgia would bring his Electoral College total to over 300 votes.

Abrams’ strategy of expanding an existing coalition has not only proven successful in Georgia, but potentially offered a blueprint for how Democrats can win elections in other red states drifting left. It’s a defining story line of the 2020 election and, in all likelihood, many cycles to come.

Biden swung Georgia left. Now Democrats are racing to do it again.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/08/biden-turns-georgia-blue-senate-runoff-435243

<quote>

Biden’s narrow Georgia lead was built on the clear, if challenging, path Stacey Abrams laid out in 2018. Abrams, who narrowly lost a run for governor but won Democratic plaudits for her message and talk-to-everybody campaign strategy, energized young voters, registered and turned out record numbers of people of color and peeled away white, college-educated voters in suburban counties, like Cobb and Gwinnett, that turned hard from Republicans in the Trump era.

Abrams, along with the voting-rights group Fair Fight she founded in 2018, also helped expand the electorate since then. Georgia has added 1 million new voters since 2016, thanks to policies allowing voter registration at motor vehicle bureaus as well as efforts by groups like Abrams’. Georgia smashed its own voting record in 2020 with 67 percent of registered voters participating, surpassing the 2008 mark of 63 percent.

In 2019, Abrams wrote that other Democrats could take advantage of the same factors as her history-making campaign, which was “fueled by record-breaking support from white voters and presidential-level turnout and support from the diverse communities of color in our state.”

“All of that foundation [Abrams built] is now what has brought this state into toss-up status for presidential races and for two Senate runoffs,” said Steve Phillips, a Democratic donor and founder of Democracy in Color, a progressive group focused on voters of color. “The blueprint she wrote in 2019 should be a roadmap for the national donor community about how to move resources over the next two months,” who are already lining up on both sides to dump millions of dollars into the race.

Gentlemen,

The three of us are old school punk rockers.  In normal times like now our mutual taste for punk rock far outweighs our ideological divergences. 

Good number of punk rocks on the Ed Forum.

Jeff, you’re a Russia-Gate Denier but you’re our RGD. 

Robert, you’re a Trump Dead Ender but you’re our TDE.

While I maintain supreme confidence in my arguments, I gotta cop to the excess vitriol of my rhetoric. 

I didn’t need to drop the F-bomb on anyone..

Jeff, I don’t think you’re a Useful Idiot of Fascism.  Russia-Gate is moot in my book.

Robert, I don’t think you’re a Fascist.  Trump is going to be convicted on campaign finance and financial fraud charges and given house arrest at the one golf course Deutsche Bank doesn't seize.

I went thru this with Len Colby years ago.  Len was THE villain of the 9/11 debates.  I went around and around with him a couple of times.  Not friendly.  Then one day I posted an Avengers video and Len posted his approval.  Turns out Len Colby tour-managed G.G. Allin twice.  Twice.  Instant respect.

I saw G.G. at Ruthies in Berkeley in '88, one of the top five violent shows I've ever attended. 

Len Colby is a 9/11-Denier but he's our 9/11-Denier.

6 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

If there's any justice in the world, Trump will end up in the same place O.J. did (eventually). And I think the state of New York is salivating while it waits for Trump to leave office.

 

 

The Donald J. Trump Show is headed for its third incarnation -- Trump the Candidate, Trump the President, and soon Trump the Defendent.

I think his fate is house arrest at one of his golf courses with an ankle bracelet.

The Southern District of New York may not be so kind to his kids.

2 hours ago, Ron Ecker said:

That was a great clip SNL showed last night, though I had seen it somewhere before. It was a white Bronco on the freeway with a bunch of police cars tailing it. They said it was Trump in the Bronco.

 

Oh Jay

44 minutes ago, Dennis Berube said:

Ron, that quote worries me far more than reassures me of anything. The bipartisan/corporate media hatred of Trump could easily breed a Wag the Dog situation regarding any election fraud. It sure has worked convincingly regarding covid-19.

Dennis, there is no election fraud.  GOP voter suppression efforts largely failed.  The mail got delivered.  All the vote counting was observed by Republicans, Democrats and Independents.  Republicans won big on the House vote.

Corporate media hatreds didn't stop them from dropping billions of dollars in free advertising on Trump's 2016 campaign, and allowed Trump and his surrogates to routinely lie about Trump's support for the 2003 Iraq War.

How people rationalize Trump's sadistic, sociopathic drive for total power is beyond me, but so many people do so I just chalk it up to one of life's mysteries and put it behind me.

9 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

You can have the Wheeler trophy. Why on earth would we let Wheeler make any rules? . Whose ever closest to the final result total wins. That's where all the bets are. You've predicted 50 more electoral votes for Dems than me. (340-88). My total is 291-147.That's almost exactly what it would be if Biden didn't win Georgia. Everybody's pretty much casting it as Biden 306, the same total as Trump in 2016. So I'd be off by 15, and you'd be off by 34.

I base my case for the highly prestigious Robert Wheeler Trophy on picking all 6 of the Biden flips, while you only picked 4.  Even North Carolina is technically still in doubt.

A great deal of fame and fortune rides on this, Kirk.  Wheeler needs to weigh in.  An anxious nation awaits.

1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Well thank you Cliff, As I said at the time, you and I were pretty much in sync, and you did get Georgia, but you also gave Biden Florida and North Carolina. I said I thought there was an outside chance you could be right about Florida, but I didn't trust Florida. But I did complement you for your astuteness on Arizona.

Kirk, we can both make an argument for the top prize in Wheeler's contest. 

Since we were playing in his contest he needs to adjudicate the winner.

Robert, I know you read some of my posts -- who won the Wheeler Trophy??

6 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Hey what about a trophy for me? I got 49 out of 50!, and Biden at 291! The one miss is Georgia but that really hasn't been called yet, right 

Exactly Kirk!  Georgia goes blue I win.  If it goes red you win.  It's Wheeler's contest, he made a big deal about it.  We took part and made the best calls. ( Two you didn't have were Georgia and Omaha, right?)

Wheeler keeps the both of us on ignore -- although he always seems to know when we're knocking something he wrote.

Still, it was his contest and he needs to acknowledge the fact you and I are one-two in this thing.

6 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

 

 

I just put Maine for Biden, I guess there's a split thing in Maine? Actually that is a pretty  good idea for all the states to do. It's more equitable, at least short of abolishing the electoral outright!

I see Wheeler with his calculations still wasn't aware of the "red mirage". That's what you get with one  sided sources. Everyone was warned for weeks. As Jim said, because some of the Republican state legislatures didn't let them count the early mail in ballots ahead of time. They counted them at the end, and everybody knew weeks in advance that the early mail in votes were largely for Biden! No amount of math and probability have anything to with it!  Trump himself, all but prohibited his voters from doing mail in ballots.   Hello!

46 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said:

Uh oh.

Cliff and Doug got the "Wheeler is posting alert." Ron, Steve and Kirk, wake up.

I picked all 6 Biden flips in YOUR contest, Wheeler. 

Where's my trophy, bey-otch?

Wheeler deserves an A for effort with his "statistical" play.

Biden got 6 flips -- Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona and Omaha.  I predicted them all.

Somebody ask Wheeler to contact me so I can tell him where to send my trophy...

Stacey Abrams on minority rule, voting rights, and the future of democracy

https://www.vox.com/ezra-klein-show-podcast/21540804/stacey-abrams-2020-biden-trump-election-voter-suppression-laws-republicans

Ditch Mitch!

33 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

I think Georgia will need a BIG turnout of Democrats and a lack of enthusiasm from Republicans in order to win both Senate seats, but it's possible.  Ossoff is a very competent candidate and Warnock is like a breath of fresh air (at least in the ads he has put out).  He seems very personable, persuasive and has positive (and specific ideas).  Let's hope for the best and maybe for the 1st time in 20 years GA will have elected Democrat or TWO in a statewide election with the added benefit of flipping the Senate.  That would truly be a positive start to 2021, although the majority (in GA) would feel that the sky was falling.

It's Stacey Abrams versus Moscow Mitch with Georgia the swing votes in the US Senate. 

2 Dems = when Georgians call their Senators' offices to voice an opinion they'll wield more power than any other average American citizen.

23 minutes ago, Robert Wheeler said:

I'm still here. I'm busy and of course annoyed and trying to figure out how my dad, who has voted straight Republican since Eisenhower vs. Stevenson ended up voting at all, since he passed away in July 201.9. 

Apparently someone committed a crime.  I hope they're apprehended and prosecuted...meanwhile...