Evan Marshall

------------------------------------------------------ 5) DiEugenio says his research has led to discussion of a third rifle, more appropriately identified as a first rifle, found before the Mauser. JG OK, you got me hooked. Tell me more about this THIRD [first?] rifle discovery...or direct me to more information, please. ----------------------------------------------------------- Hi Mark, I apologize for not having the specific Black Op Radio archived program from 2009 on which I heard Jim DiEugenio say this. But I have written to the email address on his CTKA site and gotten a response on another matter, so I recommend dropping him a line. Good Luck, JG I don't know when Dallas went to the CSI concept but my dept, Detroit PD, went to it in 1971 and I was in the 1st class for CSI. Prior to that in Detroit, Central Photo would do the pictures, Latent Prints would handle print evidence and the Crime Lab would handle the blood and other body fluids. We went to a CSI approach because there was a tendency to miss stuff. My partner and I handled a number of mutliple homcides and homicide was much happier the way they were handled by one unit. Dallas Pd certainly deserves alot of criticism for their work on this case, but perhaps a portion of the problem was a number of different people from different units responsible for various components of the scene. We often spent 24hrs or more processing a scene with the thoroughness required and we never had a dead President.

Doug Horne is an able writer and this short paragraph could easily refer to much of Bugliosi's writings on conspiracy and the murder of President Kennedy. clusioDuring two tours in Detroit Homicide I reached the conclusion that people who jump to conclusions usually end up landing on their posterior. I don't have time at the present to read Doug's work so I haven't bought it but I will. I would suggest that people read it several times before getting overly excited about what's there. Remember he's on our side! Do I hae my ownv opinions about who were behind the JFK homicide? Yup, but as long as some one thinks the Warren Commission was a fraud I'll treat him with kindness without all these paranoid accusations and if some one agrees with the WC I've found its possible to disagree without being disagreeable. Unfortunately, ego often trumps common sense when it turns the subject of what happened to JFK. I've written three controversial books on ammunition perfromance and tell people they can do one of three things with my effortis: 1.accept it 2. reject it 3. or be like my wife and ignore it. Civility has become an endangered species

there sadly seems to be little correlation between educational levels and polite and respectful discourse. Evan Marshall Sgt, Detroit Homicide, retd

We need to remember that nothing effects cops worse than the death of another officer. I was on the job in Detroit 1969-1989 and the death of a cop placed at Oswalds feet in 1963 should have guaranteed Oswald DRT (Dead Right There) instead of arrested.

I spent 20 yrs as a Detroit cop and always felt that people who want to committ crimes ought to to be atleast as much at risk as I was. good guys are safe and bad guys are no longer in a position to put good guys at risk-my kind of results. Do I believe JFK, RFK, MLK, and Malcom X were murdered by conspiracies? you bet. do I believe in UFO's?-nope. spent severals week at the Nevada Test Site which is next door to Area 51-saw alot of "things" in the air at night-convinced they are CFO's-classified flying objects, not UFO's. not everything is a conspiracy and often is simply what it appears to be-evil people, doing evil things.

they can be seen at www.stoppingpower.net, and I'm not sure of the relevance here except in a very limited way.

Bill-while there is no statute of limitations on murder, God apparently has put his own statute of limitaions on defendents and witnesses. We all ought to be able to agree that we would like to know the truth whatever is turns out to be. I certainly have my own views of what happened, but I could we wrong-I have been before and unless I die in the next 10 seconds, I will be again. Our egos are our biggest foe not the anti-conspiracy folks. if well intentioned folks of any ilk could put their pet theory on hold and start from a point of agreement, EVEN only if it's JFK died in Dallas and we kept our sarcasm and ridicule inside our heads instead of on the tips our tongues AND focus on finding the truth we could move slowly towards an understanding of what really happened. If it's LHO on the 6th floor or David Phillips, Mitch Werbell, George Nonte and some old China hands on the grasy knoll, or Colonel Mustard in the drawing room with a candle stick-we could move IF we could establish an "Ego Free Zone" but I'm more skeptical about that happening than I am about who really killed Malcolm X. I've written three books and know what it's like to be the deflator of people's pet theories that they gained fame AND/OR money with. People are puzzled why I don't respond angrily when attacked in print. It's really very simple. My need to be loved, respected, admired or even tolerated ends with my youngest grandchild.

Don, I wasn't specific because you make so many assumptions of things which you say are undeniable facts. For example, you say that Josiah tells us that the Zapruder film does not show the umbrella man pumping the umbrella up and down, well he's 100% correct, it doesn't show any pumping movement, it shows a twirling of the umbrella from left to right, and nothing more. If you have footage which shows the pumping movement, I'd love to see it. As for researchers abandoning their positions, I don't see anything wrong or sinister about that at all, it's called evolution of their opinions based on their research and consideration of other research sources over the years. Duncan could we atleast agree we have not been given the truth? Or do we spend decades argung how many lone gunman can dance on a grassy knoll?

what bothers me is that there are too many in love with pet theories and cannot disagree without being extremely disagreeable. I found during two tours in Detroit Homicide that I was often wrong and had to back up and view the murder in question from a different angle. We often sat down as a squad and ran it from different perspectives until we reached a consensus and then divided up the things that needed to done and did them. Did we always solve them? no, but atleast we examined and explored alternative theories. until people can muzzle their ego's, we'll rarely make genuine progress-and that's the tragedy

I joined Detroit PD in 1969 and we had similar boards that contained a list of stolen cars and we could attach flyers on wanted folks. Additionally, many would attach a spring clip to hold mug shots of wanted people. I've always been of the opinion that Tippit was murdered to encourage the cops to kill his killer as nothing angered cops more than to see one of their own slain and a dead Oswald in the Theater was have made everything "tidier". Additionally, I've never been convinced by Oswalds involvement in this event.

Unlike Oswald, the Boy Scouts of America know how to shoot

I carried a 2nd gun daily for 20 yrs and still carry two today. Also carried an N Frames in both uniform and plain clothes until I went to SWAT and was issued a 9MM pistol. The biggest problem in this whole event seems to be that the securing of crime scenes and processing them correctly was an unknown art in Dallas. If both shootings had been processed and investigated like Homicides we would know alot more today. I did two tours with Detroit Homicide and have rounded up more witnesses in the murder of a drug dealer than Dallas PD did in both. Tippit's murder puzzles me as cop killings in Detroit were always worked thoroughly and tons of "evidence" was always collected. The problem is that it wasn't done right at either the TBD or at Tippit's murder scene and once you've lost control of the scene you're screwed. evan marshall www.stoppingpower.net Evan, Your experience in developing crime scene evidence is appreciated. But don't you think after botching things two, three, four times, it's apparent that the DPD, DA, et al, intentionall botched things up? Also, would you consider going over the evidence available today, if a grand jury would review it? Thanks for your imput. Bill Kelly I don't know about the initial work, but I agree that subsquent "investigations" had an agenda. Have to appreciate the enormity of what happened on 11-22-63. During the Republician Convention in Detroit I was involved in keeping traffic moving along the back of Cobo Hall. Many of my young coppers were excited to see the various Canitdates. I reminded them we were there to keep an eye on those is close proximity to the cantidates not the cantidates. Not having been there (Dalls) I have no idea how overwhelmed people where by what happened. I'd be happy to look at the evidence but I'm not sure there is anything super significant that we can prove a chain of custody on. I may be outside of the US soon for a longish period-trying to find a job inside the US but there isn't alot of market for my sort of work.

I carried a 2nd gun daily for 20 yrs and still carry two today. Also carried an N Frames in both uniform and plain clothes until I went to SWAT and was issued a 9MM pistol. The biggest problem in this whole event seems to be that the securing of crime scenes and processing them correctly was an unknown art in Dallas. If both shootings had been processed and investigated like Homicides we would know alot more today. I did two tours with Detroit Homicide and have rounded up more witnesses in the murder of a drug dealer than Dallas PD did in both. Tippit's murder puzzles me as cop killings in Detroit were always worked thoroughly and tons of "evidence" was always collected. The problem is that it wasn't done right at either the TBD or at Tippit's murder scene and once you've lost control of the scene you're screwed. evan marshall www.stoppingpower.net

when I was a rookie Detroit Cop in 1969 I was issued a Colt Official Police .38 revolver that had been in dept inventory for years. I eventually saved enough money to buy a personal Magnum which I could legally carry The Tyler T Grip adaptor was not a safety device-it fit between the grip panels on the front of the frame to fit the end user better. We had a number of negligent discharges annually but I never saw or heard of a genuine accidental discharge

what a bunch of nonsense. I was born in Salt Lake City and been a Mormon all my life-I know a number of retired CIA folks and only one of them is LDS. I also served a Mission for the Church and our focus was on sharing our message. people don't agree-fine but the Church did not gain from JFK's assassination and remains poliitcally neutral. Why not focus on fields of investigation that have some merit?

I'm continually appalled by the anger and ridicule that exists among those that feel we don't know Who killed JFK nor who lead the cover up. We're too busy arguing over how many lone gunman can dance on the head of a pin instead of bringing something edible to the table. Do I have a theory? You bet! As a retired Homicide cop I think the whole thing smells. Can I prove my pet theory? No, but I bet if more people checked their egos at the door we might make some genuine progress. While I'm poltically far to the right of almost everyone here, I'm convinced we stopped being a free nation on 11/22/63. No, I don't believe in UFOs even though I spent several weeks at the Nevada Nuclear Weapons Test Site (next door to Area 51) and saw alot of curious things in the night air. I do believe in CFO's-Classified Flying Objects. Anyway, maybe we could crank it down three notches and focus on the goal.

Obviously not enough

spent 20 yrs with Detroit PD including two tours with Homicide and saw alot of people shot who did not show blood on their clothing. Once fought and handcuffed a guy who had been shot six times-he was taken into the precinct and collapsed on the floor-dead.

Okay, I want to be careful here. Dr. Wecht, Mr. Marrs, and Professor Fetzer have earned our respect many times over. And Jim Fetzer is my friend. Each would bring to the confrontation myriad strengths and, beyond any question, the courage of his convictions. But I would pass on all three for a Bugliosi operation, and for reasons relating to my perceptions of their respective abilities to execute the strategy that I favor. In other words, I don't see these gentlemen as working effectively within the relatively narrow parameters of the confrontation as I -- seemingly alone -- envision it. And I don't think it serves any useful purpose to be more forthcoming. Right now I'd have to go with Professor Gerald McKnight or Dr. David Mantik, with an ever so slight preference for the former. But I remain open to suggestions. Charles David Mantik is my friend and one of the most brilliant people I know. But even he would admit, I think, that his oratorical ability is limited. I am unacquainted with McKnight. In a debate, command of the facts is not enough. The debate judges are impressed by a commanding STYLE as well as arguments. Bug DOES have style better than most....but no substance. Now if the debate were limited to the MEDICAL AREA, Mantik could knock out Bugsy with one hand tied behind his back, despite lacking fiery oratory. Jack Bart Simpson

Thanks, Bill. Certainly Seale's conviction is an important outcome. I did see your mention of it in the Oswald's Ghost thread. And as you know, I have much respect for your past and continuing efforts in the Kennedy murder case. You commented and I replied: I do agree that there is potential peripheral evidence to the JFK case that might be uncovered during a comprehensive civil rights investigation, or as John Dolva wrote: "Kennedy's assassination itself is arguably an unsolved Civil Rights case that could fall within the parameters of this bill. Similarly some suspicious deaths and other issues, that if pursued under this bill opens an avenue to documents and witnesses." I must also remark that given the U.S. government's abysmal track record, there may not be great cause for optimism. Frankly, I would love to see a bunch of experienced investigators and ex-intell types like John Newman and others who would know where to look and know what they were looking at with appropriate power to search BUT Congress would screw up a one car funeral on a one way street. If Oswald was a lone nut and Ruby a small time hood-what's to hide? Talked to several retired FBI guys re: many of those civil rights murders and the problem was not that they didn't know who the killers where but that there was insufficent evidence for court

I imagine it will eventually appear here: http://www.booktv.org/AfterWords/archive_2007.asp I did and thought it was a well done and reasoned approach to the issue of conspirarcy-he freely admitted ignorance of some areas which I found refreshing in this era of all knowing and pontificating.

thanks alot

Decades ago, I was in charge of a Homicide trial where we had the right defendent but instead of a dollar bill which would have been easily to hold, we had a 100 pennies woth of evidence&testimony-with the help of an experienced and very sharp proscutor we were able to guide the jury to understand the value of what we had and the woman was convicted. I think we're faced with the same effort with JFK, but I think we're lucky that we have alot of very astute people who can grasp and remember the "pennies" of this case. IF-and its a biggie-we can avoid rancor and ego I think we can solve it-think we already have-mostly.

You might expect that, but I fear you would be disappointed. One of Harold Weisberg's most frequent laments, and perhaps the truest thing he ever said, was that -- in the case of John F. Kennedy's murder -- ALL OUR INSTITUTIONS FAILED US. If I interpret Harold correctly, he intended to include ALL the institutions of law enforcement. Do you think he did not intend to include Homicide Dicks? have no idea what he considered and local cops may not have made his radar if would be foolish not to take a look Hey, there are Good Coppers and their are Bad Coppers, and it has nothing to do with how many people you arrest or convict, but those who break the law and are given a blind eye by Bad Coppers on the take. Richard Cain, Joe Cody and Patrick Dean were Bad Coppers, while Roger Craig, Fuge in Louisiana, and Evan Marshall are examples of Good Coppers. The local law enforcement then and now is in no position to investigate the homicide of a president without the assistance and cooperation of a Task Force of cooperating state and federal agencies. They all can't be on the take. BK my reason for asking is that almost revery witness has a speck of gold them and some the mother loade and don't know it-had very few cases where I had no idea who the killer was-mostly did not have enough for court

You might expect that, but I fear you would be disappointed. One of Harold Weisberg's most frequent laments, and perhaps the truest thing he ever said, was that -- in the case of John F. Kennedy's murder -- ALL OUR INSTITUTIONS FAILED US. If I interpret Harold correctly, he intended to include ALL the institutions of law enforcement. Do you think he did not intend to include Homicide Dicks? have no idea what he considered and local cops may not have made his radar if would be foolish not to take a look