Evan Marshall

I'm not sure that the HSCA ever did very much of what a real homicide investigator like yourself would do. Fonzi's Miami investigation you know about, and the HSCA did find Tippit witness Jack Tatum, but offhand I cannot think of much else that would qualify for your definition of homicide investigation. I don't think much of anything was accomplished during Tannenbaum's tenure, and I have never seen any indication that Tannenbaum or his people had even read very much about the case. When the going got tough, Tannenbaum got going, and he didn't stop until he reached the safety and comfort of Beverly Hills. Tannenbaum went on to a successful career as a crime novelist, drawing upon his experience as an assistant DA in Manhattan. It recently emerged, however, that Tannenbaum's novels were actually written by his cousin and that Tannenbaum was paid for allowing the use of his name as "author." For a discussion of Tannenbaum's literary career, check this link. http://leegoldberg.typepad.com/a_writers_l...el_gruber_.html the fact that experienced Homicide Dicks were there even for a brief period may have been extremely valuable

read it-thanks

Not sure I understand this question Evan. Gaeton Fonzi covers the wonderful Bob Tannenbaum in some debth in The Last Investigation. Do you mean statements he may have made since HSCA? Dawn no, any statements by the homicide guys he hired for the House Committee-I've read several of his statements

One can argue the merits of normalizing relations with Castro, but certainly as President he had the right to do so and those who disagreed should have left the govt and worked for his defat in the next election. Unfortunately, its starting to look like they chose a much more direct route.

you jest..... covering up his infidelity (which wasn't covered up for long) obstructed in the investigation of conspiracy, LHO as a Lone Nut? Nonsense! Who you respect regarding fatherhood and husband rating is your business, when it comes to JFK conspiracy possibility, immaterial... I solved more than one homicide when I followed what appeared at first irrelevant or useless information-I would suggest that all sorts of things may have been ignored or buried because of concerns about what they might have also uncovered.

As some one who has always been faithful to his wife of almost 40yrs I have no respect for JFK as a father or hasband. However, that does not diminish the enormity of the crime or who did it. Who knows how much was lost that might have shed light on the Why because of over protection of his image.

John, Do you mean Connally? Yes, of course, thank you, Antti. Greer's "actions" have always troubled me-always.

two buds, both former SF, later career agency operators, knew Phillips and said while he was capable of such behavior, he would have reported to some one else and gave me a name-a name associated with DIA not CIA.

anybody aware of any comments or statements by the veteran homicide dick's Tannebaum brought to Washington?

Ohmygod that is hilarious. And something I could imagine coming from the lovely and charming HL Hunt. Well I've learned enough to about Hunt's espionage network to allow me to learn something about Hunt's espionage network, specifically the keywords "Paul Rothermel." He was an FBI guy who headed up Hunt's culture rich gang, which apparently had other ex-FBIers as well as the ubiquitous "rouge CIA agents." And a private army--the American Volunteer Group (AVG). He bought Walker his own army! Then he could preach to them about the John Birch Society all he wanted. It would have been better if he just got him a GI Joe doll. fruitcakes with massive amts of money are frightening not funny I got my MA from a Jesuit University and had an advisor pitch me for "an intelligence agency" Well that sure is interesting Evan. I keep reading little blurbs about various religious sects being involved with espionage agencies, including the Catholic church, but this is the first reliable piece of info I've received on the subject. the major ones, including mine-The Mormons-all have intell gathering efforts-actually I'm of the opinion the Jesuits probably put the Agency to shame in some parts of the world.

Ohmygod that is hilarious. And something I could imagine coming from the lovely and charming HL Hunt. Well I've learned enough to about Hunt's espionage network to allow me to learn something about Hunt's espionage network, specifically the keywords "Paul Rothermel." He was an FBI guy who headed up Hunt's culture rich gang, which apparently had other ex-FBIers as well as the ubiquitous "rouge CIA agents." And a private army--the American Volunteer Group (AVG). He bought Walker his own army! Then he could preach to them about the John Birch Society all he wanted. It would have been better if he just got him a GI Joe doll. fruitcakes with massive amts of money are frightening not funny I got my MA from a Jesuit University and had an advisor pitch me for "an intelligence agency"

You are being too kind. It is nonsense. I just thought I would give you a laugh. spent 8 weeks in the NV desert a few yrs ago in a classified area on the other side of the Mountain from Area 51-saw alot of unusual things in the air at night but remain convinced they were CFO's-classified flying objects.

Topical Bump Over time, since this thread, it seems that there was what one can call a unified 'Southern Intelligence Network' with FBI elements, ex FBI plants in various organisations like the various southern State Sovereignty Commissions, and various government bodies like Highway patrol, plus a number of civilian bodies like the white Citizen Councils, private Detective agencies like Guy Bannister's*, and others within other groupings like the Klan (KBI) and other persons like in the Post Office and the Military etc etc etc that together shared information. For example there are documents that indicate that JBS heads could write to the MSC and get Military records from Military Personell on individuals. Also there seems there was a source in the Florida airports that provided info and also that in turn the MSC provided info to Dulles, and also a Post Office employee passing info back and forth between the presidents security detail and the MSC. If one goes back to the Civil War surrender one finds that captured with Davis was his most able Cabinet member, the Confederate Post Master General, who, after some time in Jail, was rehabilitated. At the beginning of the Civil War he, when forming the Confederate PO department, took into his employ members of the pre Civil War Postal Service. My suggestion, for which I have no supporting evidence, merely a speculation, which, given the secrecy of various organisations that formed such as the "Invisible Empire" KKK, is that elements in the south, after the re-establishment of the Union and through the reconstruction, remained loyal to the Confederate cause. Thus there is much scope for 'non existent' departments within departments with their own agenda and loyalty. * there are dccuments indicating that before Guy died he may have been employed by the MSC through N.O. persons recommendation. though I don't view the existance of such units with the horror that I'm sure many here do, remember every major PD and State had "Red Squads". I got to be friends with a guy who did alot of wire tap work for these units in MI and it became obvious there was a "ratline" that existed among all these seperate groups. also, I wonder why the DIA hasn't gotten a harder look in the JFK murder.

For anyone interested in my thoughts (and several other Forum members) on the JCS see the threads. "Northwoods, and JFK" (indexed) and "Dark clouds over Camelot, JFK and the Military." have a close friend who was extremely close to Lemay-I got to meet him once-highly complex individual-people he commanded thought highly of him. Probably should have died at the end of WWII like Patton-neither prospered in a Cold War environment.

Bud who retired from the "Christians In Action" told me that PI cover&creds were often used by Agency operators inside the US.

Get back on the beat real soon. The skills of a real cold-case cop are badly needed here. thanks-stress test results normal and I was discharged last night has anyone ever talked to the ex-Homicide Dicks Tannenbaum brought on board?

Being a retired Homicide Cop I've never beeen a hero worshipper but certainly have the greatest respsect for people like Horne, Fonzi, Weisberg, etc-the Emporer is not only naked, God was not particualrly generous to him.

admitted last night to the primary cardiac care unit at a local hospital and laying here in bed with wifi. lot of time to read various threads and wait for my procedure tomorrow. It's nice to still be in the loop.

I know this guy and he is a fraud-I sat on an intervew board when he applied for an instructors job with a Federal Agency with WMD responsibilities-he avoided most of the questions and I recommended he not be hired. The background he gave us was significantly different than what appeared in Esquire. He worked a Dyncorp contract in Bosnia and appeared to misrepresent himself in several areas. He had to resign when it was discovered he had failed to disclose in he was legally blind in one eye and could not complete firearms instructor school. He's a legend in his own mind. should add that there were ex-spec ops guys on the interview panel and they saw right thru him too.

I know this guy and he is a fraud-I sat on an intervew board when he applied for an instructors job with a Federal Agency with WMD responsibilities-he avoided most of the questions and I recommended he not be hired. The background he gave us was significantly different than what appeared in Esquire. He worked a Dyncorp contract in Bosnia and appeared to misrepresent himself in several areas. He had to resign when it was discovered he had failed to disclose in he was legally blind in one eye and could not complete firearms instructor school. He's a legend in his own mind.

Maybe we get out of it what we put into it. if you know the why, the who gets much easier my basic philosophy is life is tough and then you die the fact that this is a tough nut to crack doesn't mean we should either give up or decide its unsolvable. next to my desk at Homicide was a blowup of the Z frame when JFK takes the head shot. When asked why it was there I responded I loved a good mystery. The fact is that on 11-22-63 we lost our innocence and a significant portion of our liberty. I'm convinced that LHO did not shoot anybody and those that did pull the trigger are not the important ones-they were probably dead within hrs-those who ordered it are the ones who interest me.

UPS delivered it today at the shop and I've been reading it between customers-very entertaining read unlike many assassination books-will need to read it at least twice-wonder why Blakey who worked for RFK turned out to be such a dud.

Yes, but not immediately. Knew a shot had been fired, but I effected the arrest and was walking the perp out when my Sgt asked me if I was ok and I said yes. He then said what about all that blood-then it hurt-alot. Like Jack I had a massive heart attack and drove myself across Albuquerque to the New Mexico Heart Hospital-no pain, just alot of pressure. Did not realize the enormity of it until just prior to my surgical procedure when the Cardologist said, "If there is anybody you'd like to talk to, you had better do it now".

Can you share details of that conversation Evan. What did the former investigator say? we talked for about 20 hrs-he was an experienced Homicide Investigator and obvousily they (the investigators) were on to something-he focused on Bannister and some folks out near Lake Ponchatrain. Also said they did some serious though unpublished&unpublicized looks at the Mafia but I have to agree with him that the Mafia could not cover it up. He said Ferrie's trip to Texas to visit the roller rink was a meet with Mil Intell. also, they bumped into Mil Intell folks in NO repeatedly-some who had Agency Creds and that Werbell's name came up in some very interesting conversations that could not be resolved. They also had what looked like a good tip on shooters brought in from SE Asia. it was a good 19 yrs ago and I was in the middle of some complex dope murder investigations of my own at Homicide and had no time to follow up. I don't know if Garrison was consciously on to something, but the guy I talked to thought highly of him and I found the investigator credible and chkd his rep out with old friends of mine and it was solid. lastly, he told me that Garrison often consciously and purposely led the press down the primrose path to what he knew was a dead end to keep them out of his hair.

To clarify my earlier post, I don't believe Garrison to be a fraud. I do, however, understand why Sheridan and others would think so. Here, Garrison was spouting to the press that he'd "solved" the case. At first he was leaning toward Cubans, then a gay thrill-kill cult, then the CIA, then the CIA with LBJ, blah blah blah. It kept getting bigger and bigger. And YET, the one group Garrison avoided implicating, LIKE THE PLAGUE, was the mafia. Garrison's case was strongest against Ferrie and Banister, BOTH working for Marcello in November 1963. Oswald's uncle had also worked for Marcello. That Garrison avoided Marcello, while visiting Vegas and pointing in most every direction, is indeed suspicious. Someone predisposed to suspect the mob, such as RFK and Sheridan, would have a hard time watching Garrison's high-wire act without wanting to puke. Indeed, many CTs were later to conclude that Jimbo's road show did a lot more to hurt the chances of a new investigation, than help. Garrison did regain some measure of respectability when the HSCA looked into some of his leads, and found them credible, but that was almost a decade later. Pat, you may not believe that he was a fraud but your post above, at least to me, makes it clear that you are attempting to marginalize the contributions of Jim Garrison. In attempting to do so, you've over-simplified and mis-characterized some of the facts. First of all, in giving your timeline of Garrison's suspects, you omit entirely the military-industrial establishment. I refer you to Garrison's Playboy interview or his book A Heritage of Stone. Could you document where Garrison was leaning toward a gay thrill kill cult before he suspected elements of the Central Intelligence Agency? You claim that his case was strongest against Ferrie and Banister and mention their relationship with Marcello. You did not mention that both also had extensive ties to factions within the intelligence community. And no matter how strong Garrison's case against them, it's hard to prosecute dead men. I'm not debating Garrison's real and alleged shortcomings. Authors and researchers far more knowledgable than I have done that. Without listing all of the advances the New Orleans D.A.'s investigation spawned in the face of enormous resistance by powers at the very highest level of our government, I will mention distribution of so-called bootleg copies of the Zapruder film to the American public, the testimony of Pierre Finck under oath, and the Clinton sightings to name a few. Anyone that values the truth should be able to acknowledge Garrison's efforts in advancing same. Garrison knew, understood and said the Mafia did not have the means to effect the murder alone and then effect the massive, unprecedented ensuing government coverup. He was right, of course. Garrison realized early on that Oswald had an intelligence background. As did some of the Cubans that Oswald was seen with in New Orleans. Pat, to me your characterization of the Garrison investigation as a whole, and your desultory references to it as a high-wire act and a road show are not consistent with many of your other posts in terms of accuracy and reasoning and informed speculation. And yes, I did read your last sentence. From Brothers, page 320: As Garrison began investigating Oswald's ties to local Kennedy haters, he zeroed in on the peculiar office building at 544 Camp Street where a former FBI agent and far-right zealot named Guy Banister and his eccentric associate David Ferrie oversaw a buzzing beehive of anti-Castro activity that included the young man later arrested for Kennedy's murder. The prosecutor came to the conclusion that Oswald was a pawn in a complex plot, framed as a Castro-loving Marxist to take the blame for the assassination. The real masterminds behind the conspiracy, he decided, could be found in the CIA and Pentagon (emphasis added). "President Kennedy was killed for one reason," Garrison began to tell the press. "Because he was working for reconciliation with the [soviet Union] and Castro's Cuba.....President Kennedy died because he wanted peace." And from page 327: Throughout his years as a district attorney, Garrison gave Carlos Marcello a pass, going so far as to insist that the mobster, who called himself a tomato salesman, was a "respectable businessman." In his 1988 memoir, Garrison wrote that he never came "upon evidence that [Marcello] was the Mafia kingpin the Justice Department says he is." He conceded that the Mafia sometimes acted as a shadowy partner of the CIA, but the only significant role he believed the mob played in Dallas was a convenient scapegoat for the agency. [Robert] Kennedy had a more astute understanding of the way power in America worked; he recognized that insitutions like the CIA sometimes became so entwined with the criminal underworld, it was difficult to tell them apart at the operational level. Agree with your comments on Garrison Michael. And since we now know that you're reading "Brothers," care to tell us what you think? I was always conflicted over Garrison until I met one of his former investigators at a police training conference and we had some marathon discussions-I think Mellon's book was a mess with a few pearls uncovered. It certainly makes one wonder why if he was so far from the turth why such massive attacks were launched against him. I'm still not convinced of his real motiviation but he certainly exposed such important folks&facts.