Bernice Moore

This information is from David Lifton fyi...i am hoping this is the correct thread to post it in......best..b

Robin..do you have the crop , not those i posted within Dealey showingTague's left cheek..??.thanks...b

In this fbi report the 3foot 6 inch measurement is stated ..all i have..fwiw....b FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Date 11/23/63 LINNIE MAE RANDLE, 2439 West Fifth Street, Irving, Texas, phone Blackburn 3-8965, was interviewed at the Dallas Police Department. RANDLE advised that she is the sister of BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER, who is employed by the Texas School Book Depository and resides at her residence, stated that she met LEE HARVEY OSWALD through her brother, and has known OSWALD and his wife for about six weeks. RANDLE advised that Oswald's wife is MARINA OSWALD, who resides at 2515 W. Fifth, Irving, Texas, and that OSWALD spends the weekends with his wife at the above mentioned address. Her brother, WESLEY FRAZIER, customarily drives LEE HARVEY OSWALD to 2515 West Fifth, Irving, Texas, on Friday night, and takes him back to work on Monday morning. He stated that OSWALD is also employed at the Texas School Book Depository. On the night of November 21, 1963, she observed FRAZIER letting LEE HARVEY OSWALD out of Frazier's car at 2515 West Fifth. Subsequently, she asked FRAZIER why OSWALD was visiting his wife on Thursday evening, as he usually did not visit her until Friday evening each week. FRAZIER told her that OSWALD claimed he was visiting his wife the night of November 21, 1963, because he is fixing up his apartment and RUTH PAINE, with whom his wife resides at 2515 West Fifth, Irving, was going to give him some curtain rods. RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work. RANDLE stated while at the Dallas Police Department on the evening of November 22, 1963, officers of the Dallas Police Department had exhibited to her some brown package paper, however she had not been able to positively identify it as being identical with the above-mentioned brown package, due to the fact she had only observed the brown package from her residence window at a distance. on 11/22/63 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 89-43 by Special Agent JAMES W. BOOKHOUT/cah/tjd Date dictated 11/23/63 http://jfkassassinat...ny/randl_l1.htm

I recall the photo, thank you..Harold was in a hurry to solve the assassination of his President before all was destroyed, hidden or covered up, but as we know he was not able to reach all before it was, imagine what he could have done with a good team to aid him....but what a one man army he was..take care b.. i found the photo, it wasn't eaten..thanks for the print out also...b

Your welcome Tom..i am hoping that Robin will cruise along, and have the crop, i know i did at one time but the gremlin must have hungered again...yes he states it was his right cheek and was not much of a mark, also Walthers, i believe it was says he had a couple of small blood spots..we shall see...have a good day..b PS here is the link to his interview..FYI..

Thank you Doug...i have been trying to wade through the series and book, but also have several other books on the go, i sometimes wish some did not contain soo many pages...thanks fellas for your information..b

Anthony, thank you and i will be in touch, yes Doug left us too soon, he is very missed, a great researcher and a great gentleman, what class he had is very seldom seen, but i suspect it has rubbed off on your class, by your words...what i did and have done re the south side shooter was mainly through studying with Doug, and with his great patience...i think i did learn some worthwhile..and we did have much fun along the way....soon..again thank you....take care..b

this may be it Tommy, but is a very small crop..for now thanks..b that photo as wrong as he was marked on his right cheek, here is a much newer one, where he points to the mark..where it was that day, from reading, it was a very small mark....b

Co-worker who drove LHO to work recounts that day, his story has not changed....fwiw..b ''After the president was shot, around 12:30 p.m., police instructed managers at the school book depository to gather the employees for a roll call. Oswald was the only one missing'' SAME OLD CRAP.... http://www.dallasnew...darkest-day.ece

The photo was taken that afternoon.it could be an Allen photo, not positive right now..I believe he called it like a scratch....b

Hi John; thanks for the reply, yes much information has been gathered now down through the years, it did take patience as it came in dribs, i will say that..there were many homes years back in Dealey, so it was is possible. .If and i believe as you there must be plans somewhere, but as even a copy of map of Dallas showing the tunnels a few years back was denied, I doubt any plans would be easy to access..today..all we can do is wait and see what come out down the road...every now and then i do hear or dig up a new bit...but very seldom..a sonar sounds like a grand idea... ..take care best b

Mr. GAUTHIER. This is a copy of a tabulation which appears on the plat map. It contains certain positions marked as frame numbers. It indicates elevations and a column dealing with angle of sight from the frame positions to the window and to a horizontal line. It also contains angels of sight the degree of sight and distances from these positions to a point on the top of the bridge, handrail height. Mr.Gauthier mentions Angels of sight........I think Specter's work certainly did need Angels...imo..b

Dawn;;; Thinking about the words tickets, and especially BARRICADES, like Larry states''What we seem to be getting now is that they are going to keep everyone but ticket holders out until their official ceremony is over and then everybody can go in....which should make for a nicely chaotic situation....no clue even as to how far away they are going to set up their barricades. They refuse to acknowledge the legal implications of the rulings related to Groden and they also can't seem to realize its unlikely the press will leave at the end of their ceremony and not stay to talk to us....after all we will probably be more entertaining'' Barricades.....the press there will not only be from Dallas and the immediate area,as well as i could believe some by now have followed the ordeal they have put Groden through and curiousity has become a part of all interest........IMO The more Barricades they put up the better, the Press will love it, as he puts it entertaining, the more the merrier, the more the press will photohraph and write about, again imo, they blow it, as i have stated before whomever is in charge of the P/R for the TSBD,,,should have been replaced, ages ago...what a farce they have made of themselves, and it may only get better, come the day...think about it..sick, no i do not feel sick,i personally right now am chuckling at how d.,, stupid they are..for now best..b

Paul; I found this letter,Nov.67... PDF of Weisberg's on page 5 it mentions a man's name and his car being at Walker's house, I have no idea if anything you may be interested in, just thought I would pass it along, it mentions several names of researchers at that time, Thompson, Lifton, Meagher, etc, and books...It may be adressed to Hal Verb,, he only uses the first name, any way, FYI...best b Item 08......weisberg.pdf

I agree Robert imo there were many more shots than 3....Steve here are a few more attachments, also make sure you do some searches within the forum...b

"In 1997 James Tague visited the U.S. National Archives and personally examined the curbstone scar chip. Tague was also accompanied by a U.S. National Archivist. They both immediately agreed that the scar chip was covered up with a foreign-material patch over the scar chip (no documented record nor documented authorization exists of precisely who/what agency that had the scar chip within its evidence chain, nor when the scar chip was covered-up). Harold Weisberg had said the same thing about the scar chip covering patch after he first examined the scar chip in the late 1960's." As I was reading this, I was getting ready to mention the work Weisberg did on the Tague curb issue, so I am glad that you mentioned him. Weisberg on the Tague curb . It was his view that at first the official investigators (FBI and Warren Commission) hoped to portray him as a publicity seeking "used car salesman" and they only pursued it when faced with the news photographs showing the damage. I believe that initially when the FBI did look for evidence of the hit, they said that they had examined the area and found no evidence of curb damage. Only later did they finally locate the curb and then, as Weisberg indicated, it had been patched.. this was a post at Lancers copied and pasted some years back...there may be some answers for you within their thread..b http://www.jfklancer...g_id=52193=

Here are a couple other maps that researchers have marked after their studies, no names really..just the maps..best b..fwtaw

H i Steve i may have something here that you may be interested in..but it does not go back to the same building...oops...b

lbj..dulles...b

thank you kind Sir, continue to get well, and take good care.....best b fyi...an Al Carrier post on this research but involving the possible shot from the south overpass....area....to Tosh..b Beyond the headshot wound issue, I have also aligned this shot origin with the neck wound and have established it by showing Elm at a higher elevation]at this point and how the shot would have to penetrate the windshield through its trajectory.". ...) note:Found in body of below post Reference All Carrier's post of Nov. 25, 2004: "....I have been seriously researching the JFK Assassination for some fourteen years. What I bring into it is a background in weaponry, ballistics, crime scene investigative techniques and an understanding for sniper deployment and procedures. I have never accepted the official version of a lone sniper achieving the feat from a location 60’ above in the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. Then add to this official account, the capabilities of the weapon and shooter that was accepted by the Warren Commission and later the HSCA, it was ridiculous. Wound ballistics became an immediate issue when I began researching the Kennedy assassination in order to determine a shot origin. While there is overwhelming evidence in my opinion of a shooter on the north knoll at the time of the assassination, I had issues with this angle of trajectory creating the head wound suffered by President Kennedy. The discovery of Badgeman by Jack White and Gary Mack in the Mooreman Photograph, witnesses who reported hearing shot(s) on the north knoll, Gordon Arnold’s reporting of a shooter there, as well as other sightings of shooters and smoke from that origin, leaves no doubt in my mind that shot(s) were fired from this location. That does not necessarily mean that the head wound was inflicted by this shot origin and in my opinion from my background in weaponry and wound ballistics, I believe that it was not. There are issues to consider when determining a point of entrance. The greater fracturing of the skull will occur forward of the point of impact as the energy from the penetrating projectile will radiate forward along the trajectory path of the initial penetration point. As seen in the Zapruder film and after the lightening of the top of the head autopsy photos, a large defect was also found high on the head, right of midline and a flap of scalp and partial skull bone was attached to the flap. This is created when the penetration trajectory is shallow below the skull, creating the energy dispersion to push out against the fractured bone. By noting where the skull fracture and flap begins, it is logical that the point of entry is close to that location. By following the trajectory back to the massive wound in the right portion of the occipital parietal, which was clearly seen at Parkland Hospital by medical personnel, it shows a true line of trajectory and shot origin. The challenge to this line of trajectory in support of shot origin of the north knoll comes from many researchers and is supported by forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht. Dr. Wecht believes that a shot fired from the north knoll, striking the right temporal/parietal region of the president’s skull would DEFLECT and turn outward (left), maintaining a wound cavity to the right portion of the skull. The problem with this is that penetration from a rifle caliber projectile that is traveling in excess of 1800fps and most likely above 2400fps, would not deviate outward, but actually slightly inward through skull penetration. The ratio of diameter v. length of the projectile penetrating through a multi-layed resistant surface, such as skull plating, would actually create a rollover effect through surface penetration. This would cause the projectile to turn slightly inward instead of deflecting upon penetration. This has been proven in wound ballistic testing through the work of Dr. Martin Fackler over the past twenty years and accepted by the NIJ in studies of wound ballistics in order to determine effectiveness in ballistic resistant materials in ballistic vests. The problem this shot trajectory creates is that it shows a shot origin that is in conflict with the witnesses who made a determination on shot origin by what they heard. This shot trajectory would place a shot origin in the region of the south end of the overpass over some sixty feet to the south knoll parking lot. No witnesses reported hearing a shot from this location, other than one who has came forward as being part of an abort team. This witness I will address later. With 200 plus witnesses in DP at the time of the assassination and none focusing on shots from this location, most researchers write off the likelihood of a south plaza shooter. They also have concerns with this exposed location. This can easily be explained by a common practice by military sniper teams in both urban and rural environments. Often, the most ideal location for shot origin, especially on a moving target, is a location that exposes the shooter the greatest. Making the shot is only half the objective, the other is escaping either undetected or without being molested. The military found a practice to overcome this obstacle and it has been termed “Canyon Shoot”. This practice utilizes multiple snipers from locations suited to draw attention to those origins where they cannot be accessed, or by allowing the terrain to confuse the shot origin to the enemy present. The term “Canyon Shoot” was unofficially adopted when Sgt. Alvin York utilized various shot origins and the echo effects of the terrain to fool the enemy into believing they were surrounded, when in fact it was only he who was shooting. In the case of Dealey Plaza, a shooter firing from the Texas School Book Depository would initially fire and the other shooters in the plaza would cue off the Depository shooter by startle reaction and fire a round immediately on top of the shot fired by the Depository shooter. Witnesses would detect the first sound and roughly identify a shot origin and this would cover the fire of the others shooters, deeper in the plaza. The echo effect of the Plaza would also aid in making the witnesses believe that it was shot reverberation that they were hearing deeper in the plaza. With another shooter firing from the North Knoll, this would direct witnesses along Elm and at the intersection of Elm and Houston to focus their attention on the area between the Depository and the Knoll. By utilizing startle reaction to cue simultaneous fire from three locations, three shots could easily sound like one. The closest known witnesses to the South End Overpass/South Knoll position were James Tague who was positioned on Commerce under the overpass, two Dallas Police Officers and nine railroad employees atop the underpass over Elm, and Tosh Plumlee and an associate who were on the bank of the South Knoll. Tague did not hear a shot originate from overhead or to his left and rear, but his perception could easily have been hampered by the extreme echo effects of all shots reverberating under the underpass. The persons atop the underpass did not detect the shot fired to their left, but their attention was on the approaching motorcade and their attention was drawn to the shots fired from the north knoll, which was in the direct of the approaching motorcade and of nearly equal distance in comparison to the south origin. Plumlee and his associate, who he has reported as being sent to Dallas as part of an assassinations abort team, clearly heard a shot fired from behind them, that would put it in line with the shot origin I have been describing. Plumlee was also ex-military and was their to stop an assassination attempt, so he would be prepared for the sounds he was about to hear. He apparently also recognized the ideal location of the south knoll region as that is where he chose to station himself. The most recent challenge to the South End of the Overpass/South Knoll shot origin comes from Sixth Floor Museum Curator Gary Mack. Mack has come forward with new reporter Bob Jett, who has claimed to have been in the South Knoll Parking Lot eating his lunch at the time of the assassination. Jett has stated that he saw no assassin and heard no shots fired from that origin. Jett was working at the time of the assassination. My question as to his credibility and presence is why did he not immediately report on air, witnessing the assassination? Why was he not called upon by the Warren Commission to testify as to what he saw and did not see? The Warren Commission directed questions at most witnesses as to whether they heard or saw anything suspicious in this region. Wouldn’t Jett have been the nail in the coffin they needed to disprove a shooter there? Another established researcher who supports my belief of shot origin from the south end of overpass/south knoll region, is nationally recognized Bloodstain Pattern Analysis Expert and Instructor, Sherry Gutierrez. Sherry has presented at JFK Lancer November in Dallas Seminars in 2001 and 2003. In 2003, she partly focused on this shot origin. She has also produced threads on the Lancer Forum regarding this. Beyond the headshot wound issue, I have also aligned this shot origin with the neck wound and have established it by showing Elm at a higher elevation at this point and how the shot would have to penetrate the windshield through its trajectory. This also explains the compromised velocity that would result in a shallower wound path. I have been challenged on this through photos including Altgens 6 and 7 and have provided arguments on both. Because this is already a rather complex subject, I will not go into detail on the throat wound. Al Carrier ...". (End of Post http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=15499&st=0&p=183885&hl=+south%20+knoll%20+shooter%20+carrierentry183885

the link below to Greg Burnham's site, shows maps for the Possible escape routes ...from the sewer drain areas...thank you kind sir for this new research..scroll down....best b http://jfktruth.org/drain/index.htm ''Even if this was not the spot from which the fatal shot was fired, it could have been, and should have been covered and investigated. Why have most people never even heard of this obvious possibility?''

Thanks Jim for the reply, i agree, the only opinion i have given through all this is that i think it was a possible......i have found the article that Penn Jones did re the sewer drain information, for your perusal...also just for interest a photo and a wee bit of information by Jerry Dealey, re a collapse on the knoll of a part of the drain, i imagine.in the 70's i believe...i will paste his information. which contains the link also to the anti sewer research theory by Michael Parks, which i feel is only fair....'' http://www.jfklancer...e=&topic_page=3 Richard, Go back and watch TMWKK carefully. They show him in the drain, and then walking off ON THE SIDEWALK. Then they cut to a walkable storm drain over BY THE TRINITY RIVER as the place they would come out. (I recall it was Walt Brown, but I could be mistaken.) I have been in that storm drain, and at the bottom there is about a 14-16" pipe (I added 2 inches). A person would have to snake through that across Elm, presumably on their belly. Remember also that it rained that morning. Some then venture that on the south side of Main the storm drains converge, and that THERE is a pipe large enough to crawl through (and I have NOT been down there). At least that is how it is today. Some will contend that they have rebuilt Dealey Plaza. I do know of one 'collapse' on the Grassy Knoll by the street, in the mid-70's, and this is the steroscopic photo they made of it before the repair. It was just a few feet west (toward the Underpass) of the drain, and they slightly altered the street when they repaired it.(I will attempt to attach it.) In fact, right here: http://www.jfklancer.com/draintn.html on JFK Lancer is the photos taken by Mike Parks in 1996. You can see down into the storm drain, and its position to the "X", etc........''. recall earlier in this thread the dimensions given of the drain pipes.which differ with Mike's...also...and a Cabluck comp, but i have not the name of the creator...as well as John Judges informative link....thanks again ........http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/sewerShot.html........Judge...best b.. Jones - Skeptic Lot Article.pdf

Greg Burnham's storm drain sewer theory.b... http://jfktruth.org/drain/index.htm..... Greg could you possibly repost your link to Jim Garrison radio, about the bullet and storm drain bullet information...thank you b

Jim; here is a link to a study done on the Political Forum on the drains..., it begins on this page but a page or two previous also shows some of the captured photos from Doug Weldon's video...fyi...https://deeppolitics...ht=sewer drains.........her is page 9 including the saved thread from rich's forum..fyi.. .https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?6193-Saint-Fletcher-the-Obscure/page9 ...b Tom and Doug's videos...## 6 AND 7... http://www.maryferre..._Killed_Kennedy also Greg Burnham'd video is included as well ......part 9... the gentleman in the sewer drain, with the white shirt on filming, i believe is anthony marsh..or brad bradford ??? does anyone know for sure...the photo showing the arrow as the trajectory from the limo to the south side of the overpass was sherry's ... the first frame, i believe was from Doug Weldon's video...showing the clear view to the limo as it came down Elm street..from the overpass......the man viewing through the fence above the north drain, is one of Jack Brazill's men...in 92.....thanks b

JIM ...there were three studies I believe on the possibility of a sewer shot, one coming from the Elm street location, re Tom Wilson based on the trajectory of one of the head wounds to the President...another one from our own Greg Burham on the trajectory I believe, and as always the undefeatable, Penn Jones, whom along with a friend, made many trips through the sewer system of Dallas, one came out behind the DPD, that must have been interesting, he made the adventures many times.The Penn ,Brazil studies, also included this North end of the knoll location ...as well as the Elm Street sewer...These were serious studies by serious men...Tom Wilson's studies and information have been lost to us since his death, his files have not been found, but one copy we know was given, in complete form to the HSCA, but if they still have such it is locked away..his testimony is also in that Committee's info on the web......but he is on TMWKK..The Smoking Guns, or the Guilty men, the later I believe...not sure, right now...but his information is gone into in great detail on the film and is fascinating and available now in his book......A DEEPER, DARKER TRUTH Tom Wilson's Journey into the Assassination of John F. Kennedy by Donald T. Phillips.................... http://educationforu...showtopic=14895 I might add here that the photos pertaining to any of the sewer, drain studies were originally provided by Penn Jones, Rich and Greg...thanks.....b