Ray Mitcham

Lovelady is leaning out so he could follow the parade down Elm Street. His shoulder isn't missing he is leaning.

Agreed, Tony, but as he was describing it, he said the President was directly along side them when the shot from behind hit the President in the temple. JFK would have had to have been turning almost full circle rearwards to his right, for it to have hit him in the left temple. However, I don't dispute that there may have been wound in JFK's left temple.

" I finally figured out Chris Davidson's photo he posted in Mass Hysteria in Dealey Plaza. Here it is compared to Altgens 5: They appear to show the same crowd in front of the Court Record Building. But, they are from different angles and maybe elevation. You are starting to understand, John Notice that the Dallas Officers Smith are not in the photo. The crowds look to be the same in both photos. Incorrect, Edgar Smith is shown in Altgens5. He can be seen in Chris's photo, as well, just above the nearside front tire of the limo. This might be Altgens 5 with the perspective shifted slightly? Yes Chris's photo is from a position slightly to the left of Ike Altgens. (You can tell from the change in perspective.) "The shadow angles under the window are the same." NSS! They were taken at approximately the same time, so the shadows would be the same, unless you believe they were painted in to fool everybody.🤣

In the Altgens5 photo, John, why the two red question marks? Edgar Smith is under the red arrow on the extreme left of the photo.

All the above try to prove an imaginary fourth cop. What did Longfellow write say ""Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad"?

It gets even funnier Quote by John Butler "This implies that the shadowed sides of the building are artificial. Why with this overhead photo taken at a later time? The TSBD looks like its southeast corner is sitting directly in the middle of Houston Street. That's probably an illusion." Only in your mind, John. The reason that the TSBD "looks like its southeast corner is sitting directly in the middle of Houston Street" is because of the angle the photograph was taken from above. The camera was not directly over the TSBD. (It's a wonder you haven't said that the TSBD must be falling over because the corners aren't vertical." LOL) What does "Why with this overhead photo taken at a later time" mean? Your fascination with imaginary "painted in shadows" is making you look rather silly.

Yep Ray again,John. I thought I was on your ignore list, but glad to be back to show again that you still don't understand evidence. "Quote by Butler "Liebeler position 1 is on Elm Street across from the middle of the building more toward the southwest corner of the TSBD and not the SE corner according to WC Exhibit 354. Position 9 according to WC Exhibit 354 is on Elm directly appears to be closer to the southeast corner of the TSBD and not as much in the middle of Houston Street.." Rubbish. Position one of 354 is across the short Elm Street in front of the entrance to the TSBD, which is at the South East end of the TSBD where Barnett said he was standing. And position 9 is slap in the middle of the junction, where a cop would go to stop the traffic. Another quote "WC Exhibit 354 shows a large gap between Houston Street and the Dal-Tex and the Court Records Building. That gap maybe the side of the building but, shadowed. If that is a shadowed side to the two buildings, then what is causing the shadow when the building should be in broad daylight." Strange to say it is the sun, John. You know that bright object in the sky? You seem to always have great difficulty with shadows. There are numerous other buildings, as well as structures on the roof of the Court Records Building which show the same type of shadows. The South face of the CRB is in bright sunshine, as is the south face of the Dal Tex,. and the South Face of the TSBD. Maybe you can't see that. Learn to read a photo, John, it will help you no end. As for your imaginary fourth cop, you do get some crazy ideas into your head. I look forward to your increasingly daft attempted justifications.

Probably, because he was safely holding his toddler son with his right hand, and the interviewer was holding the microphone close to his right arm, Tony.

Don't know here John Butler gets his four officers at the junction of Houston and Elm, as Barnett says that just three officers were stationed there, not four. "Well there were three of us assigned to that one corner.. J.D.Smith and another officer named Smith. I don't know his initials. E.L. I believe." snip "Barnett said as the Presidential motorcade turned from Main Street to Houston Street and came within his view, he stepped from his position near the south east corner of the Texas school book depository Building, toward the middle of Elm Street and held the Elm Street traffic back. After the motorcade had passed and made a left hand turn on the approach to Stemmons Freeway, he heard a shot.” He was at "position 1" (i.e. in front of the SE corner of the TSBD)on Commission exhibit 354, i.e. in front of the SE corner of the TSBD, and moved into the middle of the intersection "position 9" (i.e. in the middle of the intersection of Houston and Elm) https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0487a.htm As John says "Falsum in Uno, Falsus in Omnibus."

Not cheap, most fire escapes are next to windows.😉 They don't normally put fire doors on upper walls, and a fire door wasn't required on the first floor as there were already a number of exits for escape available. Another case of what the Butler saw, and mis interpreted.

There was, and there is not, a door on the East side of the TSBD. There is, however, an opening leading up steps, to the old loading bay area, to the right of which is a new building which I believe house part of the museum.

The exterior stairs to the North East of the TSBD are up from Houston Street onto the loading dock, not down to a basement. There must be a basement as the note to the interior North West of he first floor shows stairs "up from the basement," the elevators show "Basement to 7th floor", and in the lower centre of the first floor layout it shows stairs marked ~"up from basement" The ground floor wouldn't need a fire escape door as there are already sufficient doors.

From the New York Herald Tribune. (Page 12) "But Dr Clark said later "It was apparent that the President had sustained a lethal wound". He said that "a missile had gone in and out of the back of his head causing extensive lacerations and loss of brain tissue.""

No. Look at the TSBD 1st floor plan.

As a government agent, Tony, he probably thought he would get official help.

Got it in one, Jeremy

John, please stop. My stomach can only take so much laughing. You have to be crackers.

Not a word of apology for being completely wrong several times. Nothing bout the photo being labelled incorrectly as Houston and Main. You have no shame, Butler. You are a disgrace to the forum. He keeps calling me a trall (trool, tr oll depending how his typing is,) yet he is the guy who keeps getting things totally wrong. He even think that Altgens 6 was cropped before being sent out over the wires. You couldn't make it up. I await his evidence that I am a "Lone Gunner' whatever that is supposed to mean, but then I am used to him making assertions that he can't back up. As i said earlier, give up while you're losing John, you are making a show of yourself. Enough, already, you can't argue with stupid.

Shameless comment. You know he drove his wife to suicide? Did she tell you before she hanged herself, Jim? And yes he kicked his heroin habit he had when he was 29. Lots of people do. Maybe you have a blameless past. But as a Trump supporter, you don't seem to have a blameless present.. He was certainly right in his condemnation of the Bushes.

Nice amalgamation, Tony. Note That Butler doesn't even admit the frame he posted was at The junction of Houston and Elm, rather than Houston and Main. The man has no shame. Quote by John Butler "I do have to apologize for an error in the info on this Towner frame. I have a bad habit of spelling Welcome Barnett's name as Welcome Barrett. Everything else is fine." "Everything else is fine" except that photo is at a different junction.😂

Who is talking about the junction of Main and Houston? The photo you have posted is a frame from the Towner film showing the junction of Houston and Elm Street. The cop shown in Altgens5 is Edgar Leon Smith. According to Officer Barnett, he was standing in front of the South East corner of the TSBD. The other cop also named Smith was standing at the corner in front of the Daltex building. The opposite to the way you have them annotated. Altgens 5 and the photos you posted all show Houston Street towards the Elm Street junction. No wonder you have a problem understanding photos. You can't even get the basics right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMiKyfd6hA0 Reply from Butler "You two fellows need to check your vision, get glasses or better glasses, or at least look at the evidence. I don't think you boys have looked at the evidence, maybe in a cursory way at best. Two photos and two films put Officer Welcome Barrett in the intersection and not on either the northeast or southeast corner of the intersection of Houston and Elm." At which intersection? Where do you place him, John? In Zapruder frame 84, this the cop shown in Altgens5 (Yellow arrowed) Give up while your losing, John.

I look forward to his excuses, Jeremy. But he'll accuse me yet again of trolling him, when all I do (for factual reasons, is constantly point out his errors.

Altgens 6 shows the cop standing on at the North East corner of the junction between Houston and Elm. Altgens 5 shows the cop standing on the South East Corner. Different cops. Different locations. Not very good at assessing photos are you, John?

Butler, you accuse me of being a tr oll and of being a Lone Gunner (whatever that means). Shows again how wrong you are in your assumptions. If you can find any comment of mine anywhere where I support the Lone Nutter position, I will refrain from criticising your mistakes where and whenever they occur. As I know you won't be able to find any, I am quite safe in saying I shall continue to correct your many faux pas in the future. Still having problems with chasing shadows?