Allen Lowe

I guess if you wrote it must be true?. On the other hand what’s your documentation? I’m always willing to listen to those less fortunate than I.

Yes I am certain that I shall soon be the subject of a national inquiry pointing out that I’m the number One reason innocent people are accused.

She was instrumental in getting Oswald placed in the job and she did receive a call from the employment commission offering work elsewhere. This is one time you might actually want to read the Warren commission testimony. Call me lazy? Because I’m questioning the official story? Who is lazier, somebody like you who accepts everything he is told obediently and then bows his head, or researchers like jim and Pat who constantly question the official story and who have spent years trying to uncover the truth?

Give it up Dave there’s tons of evidence you’re just too lazy to look at it.

thanks, I was beginning to think I was on the wrong forum.

seem strange that Baker goes to the 5th floor and then the 7th but skips the 6th? I don't believe that they were thinking 7th because it was dark and unoccupied. Then why did they go to the 5th? Just to catch the elevator? Could be but in my opinion the whole thing is done to give the 6th floor perpetrators time to get their stuff together, arrange things as needed, and get out.

thanks boys; I know both of you have extensive investigative experience. And of course, like Ruth, every other relative of yours works for the CIA. Just plain folks, all of you. And btw name me another assassination witness/suspect who has so clinged to the public's attention over the years - Marina? Harry Olson? Billy Lovelady (who moved and moved until he dropped dead)? Buddy Walthers (oh I forgot, he got shot)?; Michael Paine (no he rarely appeared)? Beverly Oliver (oh yes she's very credible)? Why was Ruth an easy target? Because she mysteriously found evidence? Got LHO a job at the Book Depository and failed to report another offer? She was accused in Nicaragua by fellow Quakers of spying? Her husband reported that LHO was spying on political dissidents? She never saw the rifle, only an empty blanket? Her sister and father were CIA connected? Her husband was related to Allen Dulles' mistress? Her leading advocate today (Alesi) did intelligence work? Part of the problem is that you guys are so unaware of Cold War history. The CIA was regularly recruiting liberals and people on the left in the '50s and '60s to spy on their allies who might have been just a little too Left Wing for them. Ruth in her movements, manipulations, and equivocations fits this m.o. perfectly. My suggestion? Read a book. It's American history.

I want to address something about Ruth Paine that I don't think anyone else has mentioned. One of the things cops/detectives will tell you is to beware of the suspect who is too anxious to help, to be constantly consulted, because this type pf person is likely guilty or had guilty knowledge and wants to appear cooperative while keeping an eye on what the police are doing. Who does this remind us of? Think fast - the woman who has been harassed by researchers for years - most people in her situation would avoid the light of day and not sit for hundreds of hours of interviews by the people they know to be suspicious of them. But not Ruth, who not only carries the facade of innocence (not just in relation to the assassination but also about here sister's employer and her family's mazs of intelligence connections), but who says yes to a major documentary at a time when she could have ignored it (even though it will be seen by millions). Now before the rest of you Paine apologists try the obvious argument - that just the opposite is true - well, you've been had by a classic sociopath. In real life, witnesses like Paine who had first hand knowledge of incriminating events repeatedly walked away or died (think Mercer or Bowers). But not good old Mr. Paine, who doth protesteth way too much. Even as she smiles for the cameras and tells the WC how offended she was by LHO's request for counsel! What is very wrong with this picture?

I have read plenty of length on the subject, mostly by Jim diEugenio, and that’s good enough for me.

and yet Greg, as we know (because you told us so) a lot of people thought they saw Oswald. Unfortunately for your case, Shasteen was the most credible.

David, the only lone nut I know of is you.

this is something I noticed a while back. Baker was taken to the fifth and then the seventh floor when he came in the building, according to testimony. They clearly were trying to give somebody time on the six floor. I’m convinced that some of this crap was an inside job.

Correct, but this is an open forum and anyone can read your posts.

Filibustering doesn’t prove your point. But since you’ve given me a headache with all that prose, I guess you win the argument.

Give me a break, please do you think the CIA posts personnel online? She was up to her ears in it as was her husband and his whole damn family as was their relationship with Dulles as was her sister etc. etc. etc. You got to get real on this Greg; you’re so far behind on this important aspect that you’ll never catch up if you don’t start to be realistic.

“preventing-the illegal transfer of sensitive defensetechnologies to proscribed nations and criminal elements” sure sounds like intelligence work to me.

The Ruth supporters among you have missed everything here. You need to read Jim DiEugenio s work, as Ruth was far more than just a witness; after the assassination when more evidence was needed she invariably found it, like little notes and other incriminating things. Not to mention how she clearly ignored the employment commissions suggestion of a different job for Lee. No I don’t think she was a witting supporter of the assassination plot, she was a handler, like many CIA agents, on a need to know basis. You guys need to get real and read the literature. Not to mention that whichever way you look on her family tree, the branches say “CIA.” Please get real. How many CIA agents are in your family?

As usual Greg you are widely missing the point here. You cite chapter and verse of penalties, as though you know this is what Ruth faced. No she never faced it, she never paid any penalties, she was never pursued. Or was she? I have no evidence either way but unlike you I don’t cite guesses as facts. “ I don’t know the details.” Thanks. I couldn’t have figured that out on my own. And what is this, I am offending her honor? And you are defending it? Well, to quote Groucho, that’s probably more than she’s ever done.

Von Pein is like a bad nickel, keeps popping up to show us how fake it is. As for Ruth being a war tax protester, was she ever prosecuted for this? Of course not. She has, like all intelligence operatives, a get out of jail free card

The CIA is a terrorist organization.

Not a controversial post, but I happen to be in Brookline Massachusetts awaiting surgery this week so I went by the JFK birthplace, which is currently being renovated (during the busing controversy years ago it was fire bombed and someone wrote “bus Teddy” on the sidewalk. Years later Whitey Bulger confessed to having done this):

they were clearly trying to deflect attention away from their own culpability, either deliberate or not, for the assassination (and I believe, Vince, from reading a lot of your work, that there was Secret Service collusion in the killing). Remember what Abe Bolden said about their carelessness and racism. They had plenty of reason to defame someone who could no longer respond.

coming late to this, but there is so much that makes no sense here - JFK found out about Sol Estes ripping people off with goats etc and got him convicted? No, the president of the USA is not going to be going after local criminals. And then you say Sol Estes' conviction was overturned because of cameras in the courtroom? No such constitutional issue. B.S. And if his case was overturned, he would not have had to be paroled. And I am just scratching the surface of this silliness. This is all fiction.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned that not only does the dark complected man appear to have a radio, but it’s clear in one of the pictures at least that he’s talking into it. There’s very little ambiguity. As for Witt, I don’t have a strong opinion except for the fact that his claim that the black man said “they done shot those people” is…silly and not believable. Who talks like that except black characters in old Hollywood movies? Another thing I would add is that Larry Hancock has commented elsewhere that the black man looks like a Cuban active in anti-Castro politics named, IIRC, Felipe Santiago? I may be wrong about the name.

I agree that Paine was in this up to her ears, but the whole “learning Russian” thing is not the least bit surprising or suspicious in the context of the times and her professed Quaker beliefs. You guys may be too young, but this was exactly the time when things were just starting to thaw out in the Cold War, when there were Peace delegations going to Russia, and people on the left were making attempts to bridge the gap between the US and USSR. There was a lot of talk of peaceful co-existence, and the Quakers were very much a part of that. My parents were classic liberals, and my brother, who had just started to take Russian in school, had subscribed to a Soviet magazine in English called Soviet Life (which came every month in a brown wrapper that had been opened and obviously searched). There was a lot of this at the time, these mutual friendship organizations (and Benny Goodman went to Russia in 1962), though I am not, once again, arguing that Ruth wasn’t involved in the JFK thing, only that her actions we’re not the least bit peculiar. Even if she was teaching Russian, a chance to live with a native speaker would certainly be a plausible temptation.