Allen Lowe

As usual Greg you are widely missing the point here. You cite chapter and verse of penalties, as though you know this is what Ruth faced. No she never faced it, she never paid any penalties, she was never pursued. Or was she? I have no evidence either way but unlike you I don’t cite guesses as facts. “ I don’t know the details.” Thanks. I couldn’t have figured that out on my own. And what is this, I am offending her honor? And you are defending it? Well, to quote Groucho, that’s probably more than she’s ever done.

Von Pein is like a bad nickel, keeps popping up to show us how fake it is. As for Ruth being a war tax protester, was she ever prosecuted for this? Of course not. She has, like all intelligence operatives, a get out of jail free card

The CIA is a terrorist organization.

Not a controversial post, but I happen to be in Brookline Massachusetts awaiting surgery this week so I went by the JFK birthplace, which is currently being renovated (during the busing controversy years ago it was fire bombed and someone wrote “bus Teddy” on the sidewalk. Years later Whitey Bulger confessed to having done this):

they were clearly trying to deflect attention away from their own culpability, either deliberate or not, for the assassination (and I believe, Vince, from reading a lot of your work, that there was Secret Service collusion in the killing). Remember what Abe Bolden said about their carelessness and racism. They had plenty of reason to defame someone who could no longer respond.

coming late to this, but there is so much that makes no sense here - JFK found out about Sol Estes ripping people off with goats etc and got him convicted? No, the president of the USA is not going to be going after local criminals. And then you say Sol Estes' conviction was overturned because of cameras in the courtroom? No such constitutional issue. B.S. And if his case was overturned, he would not have had to be paroled. And I am just scratching the surface of this silliness. This is all fiction.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned that not only does the dark complected man appear to have a radio, but it’s clear in one of the pictures at least that he’s talking into it. There’s very little ambiguity. As for Witt, I don’t have a strong opinion except for the fact that his claim that the black man said “they done shot those people” is…silly and not believable. Who talks like that except black characters in old Hollywood movies? Another thing I would add is that Larry Hancock has commented elsewhere that the black man looks like a Cuban active in anti-Castro politics named, IIRC, Felipe Santiago? I may be wrong about the name.

I agree that Paine was in this up to her ears, but the whole “learning Russian” thing is not the least bit surprising or suspicious in the context of the times and her professed Quaker beliefs. You guys may be too young, but this was exactly the time when things were just starting to thaw out in the Cold War, when there were Peace delegations going to Russia, and people on the left were making attempts to bridge the gap between the US and USSR. There was a lot of talk of peaceful co-existence, and the Quakers were very much a part of that. My parents were classic liberals, and my brother, who had just started to take Russian in school, had subscribed to a Soviet magazine in English called Soviet Life (which came every month in a brown wrapper that had been opened and obviously searched). There was a lot of this at the time, these mutual friendship organizations (and Benny Goodman went to Russia in 1962), though I am not, once again, arguing that Ruth wasn’t involved in the JFK thing, only that her actions we’re not the least bit peculiar. Even if she was teaching Russian, a chance to live with a native speaker would certainly be a plausible temptation.

I’m so glad you finally found someone who actually agrees with you on all of these, David. Oh, wait….

I think the idiot Greer slowed down to see what was happening, assuming he wasn’t a conspirator, which is questionable. And it just doesn’t matter if the limousine didn’t come to a complete stop, as many witnesses have said it just slowed down, and honestly to people in the shock of the moment slowing down to a near stop is going to feel like a stop.

Well nobody seems to agree with me, but I’ve watched the film 30 times, and if you look at the grass to the left of the car, you can see the slow down to the near stop. It’s pretty obvious

that's exactly my point; I will say: 1) if you view it at a slower speed, it is still correct in relative terms; when it visibly comes to a stop, slowing it down hasn't created that stop, it just made it easier to discern. It is still a stop. 2) But you can disregard #1 because even at regular speed I can see the slow, slow, slowing down of the car. I can see it, and I've had surgery around my eyes. LOOK AT THE GROUND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CAR. You can tell it stops.

sorry Dave; you not only missed the original point but you missed the next point which is, as someone said earlier, Oswald wouldn't be making plans to move if he was also planning to murder the president. With friends like you, the LN'ers are in deep trouble.

David you’re kind of missing the point. If Oswald was planning to murder the president, he would think about escaping the area not moving to a new apartment. On the other hand, if you believe that’s true, thank you for the assistance as you’ve helped prove that he was not a participant in the presidents murder.

Well we obviously don’t rule out crackpots occasionally telling the truth. Hence we allow a few LNers here.

Pat I always worry when, on this subject, my perception is different from yours because you have so much more comprehensive knowledge of the subject. But in the Zapruder film that I have seen the car stops just before the headshot. Or comes almost to a stop. Now this wouldn’t be the first time I have hallucinated, but I don’t think I am.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the CIA have the original? And even if Timelife had it, why would they have to surrender it? They were quite willing to remain silent as they did until Geraldo showed it on TV. All they had to do was keep quiet. As for me being naïve about the culture of the times, I have a pretty detailed knowledge of the history, politics, and culture of the 1960s.

Here; at about .43 in this; it is brief, but the car stops briefly and has clearly been slowing down prior to this: you have to follow several links;

I’m sorry but that makes no sense because if they had destroyed it they never would’ve had to release it. I’ve read all the interviews with Brugoni; and there’s very little there there. And I’ve watched the film over and over and the car slows down significantly. It’s hard to see because the angle changes. But it’s there.

You are absolutely wrong about the slowing of the limousine as is everyone else who seems to think it’s a sign of alteration that it’s not stopping. It’s pretty obvious. What you’re missing is that the perspective changes at that moment, we have a close-up of the car and not the rest of the road. But if you look right behind the car you can see the slowing of it. This has really gotten to be quite silly, and is much ado about literally nothing. You are too smart to be wasting your time on this part of the assassination. Instead of cutting a few frames or some other nonexistent alteration, they would simply have destroyed the film. Because this particular thing is unmissable and obvious.

If you look at the Zapruder film the car comes to a near stop just before the headshot. I seem to recall Senator Yarborough saying the same thing, that it slowed down but did not stop. And every time I see it I see this and wonder why everyone claims it didn’t happen. And it’s easy to see how at this moment of shock witnesses thought the car came to a complete stop, because it was a pause in the action.

It’s about time someone said how good the Vietnam war was. I mean we only killed millions of Vietnamese for a war that we knew was useless, so what do they matter?

Actually if you look at the film you can see that the car almost comes to a stop. It’s pretty clear.

“”if the Secret Service had returned a Zapruder film to NPIC Sunday night that had the same image content as the film viewed Saturday night, there would have been no need for a compartmentalized operation at NPIC. “ This is one of those “authoritative” statements that’s actually the opposite, makes no sense in terms of what he is trying to say, and does not constitute any evidence whatsoever. This is the effin’ CIA we are talking about, where everyone seems to be on a need to know basis. Who Knows what they were up to? To Use this as a proof of alteration is fraudulent. It proves nothing. and by the way the car does come to a stop in the extant Zapruder film. It’s quick and it’s brief but it happens, just before the fatal shot.

You’ve obviously never witnessed a shooting, which I have. Things freeze up, fear takes over, snd certain kinds of actions are exaggerated. In the Z film You can clearly see that the limo slows down. The affect of that slowing down plus the altered state of panic likely produced the sense that everything had stopped.